Canadian Tourist To Be Deported For Selling Drawings For 20 Baht

[DJH77]

A Canadian Tourist who was arrested for selling drawings for 20 bht. in black & white or 40 bht. in colour at Mukdahan's Indo-China Market area 20 days ago has finally been released from jail last night after finally appearing in court yesterday. He apparently was fined 3000 bht. for the offence, which i think was No Work Permit, but the fine was dropped due to the fact that he had spent 19 days in Mukdahan jail & apparently this is cut out at 200 bht per day. I believe he was escorted by Police on this morning's bus to Bangkok where he will be in the Custody of the Canadian Embassy until they can get him on a flight home. This poor guy didn't know he was doing anything wrong by selling drawings of people who actually asked for them and local police had admired his work i'm told but apparently the Immigration officers were not impressed. Once the Arrest was made the process had to take it's course and with very little openings in the court schedule as very little takes place until after the 15th of January he was stuck until a court time was available. Some Holiday hey. How is it that we read of Assult charges in Phuket being dealt with in 48 hrs. a more serious crime in my mind, and a thing like this can keep a man in jail for 19 days even though various people tried to help there was nothing that could be done. The new head of Mukdahan Immigration who has been there for about 9 months now has done a number of things to Improve the office and service to Foreigners and is totally approachable to assist Foreigner if he possibly can and i personally think that this guy may have spent even longer in jail if somebody had not pushed for a court date, maybe it was him, if so good on you.

[hansnl]

Good show for Thailand.....again

[gotlost]

Ignorance of the law is no excuse . What part of work permit do people not understand?

[Pitbullman1]

Ignorance of the law is no excuse . What part of work permit do people not understand?

Do you wash your wife's car or motorcycle or do any physical or mental work for either her or your family? Because if you do then you too need a work permit with or without payment.

[bellagrego]

Sometimes, Common sense is a rare commodity around here. What bs about washing a truck or other silly statements. Certain professions are classified as Thai only and cannot be work permitted., Among them, ARTIST. You simply cannot engage in commerce over here in any of those protected Kings list professions. That is a serious fopar as evidenced by that holiday in Jail and a quick expulsion. I shoot thousands of photos all over Thailand and when asked, do everything pro bono. I would never consider standing in a market selling my work product. I do wash her truck , her motobike , and wash her hair as well.

bella

[neverdie]

Ignorance of the law is no excuse . What part of work permit do people not understand?

Do you wash your wife's car or motorcycle or do any physical or mental work for either her or your family? Because if you do then you too need a work permit with or without payment.

Yes I wash her Merc & that of the Police Chief next door

[CelticBhoy]

Seems a tad harsh to me.

Is there more to this?

Did anyone see the drawings?

Maybe they were offensive . . . . or too expensive!!!!

[Alwaysright]

Ignorance of the law is no excuse . What part of work permit do people not understand?

Maybe he failed the "attitude" test.

[MeMock]

Seems a tad harsh to me.

Is there more to this?

Did anyone see the drawings?

Maybe they were offensive . . . . or too expensive!!!!

Nope basically what the OP said is correct. Why not just warn him that what he was doing was technically illegal. If he then decides to ignore that advice then fine arrest him but at least warn him first.

This man had a valid visa and had money - he was not doing it for profit.

[Briggsy]

Was the law broken?

It certainly appears from the facts presented that the foreigner was involved in 2 prohibited professions and possessed no work permit of any kind. Thai laws are wide-ranging.

Whether the punishment fits the crime

19 days in a Thai prison sleeping on a concrete floor perhaps covered with a cardboard box, cheek to jowel with rapists and murderers is extremely harsh for illegally trading in 20 or 40 Baht pictures.

The reality

The Thai legal system has an informal parallel. If you are aware of the existence of the informal legal system and have the status and connections to access it, almost all offences and infractions can be dealt with outside of the formal legal system. Difficult but not impossible for foreigners to make use of the informal system but most foreigners would lack the knowledge, status and connections to access it. Once the case enters the legal system, i.e. someone is charged, the system is very harsh and affords few rights to prisoners. The level of rights afforded to charged persons under the formal legal system, for example, bail and sentencing, are governed by one's status under a system named sakdina. Again, most foreigners would lack status in Thai society.

These are 3 separate issues. Each one should be discussed separately. By merging the three, one muddies the waters in this case and the many similar cases that have been discussed on this forum.

Edited January 13, 2010 by Briggsy

[siggie2]

Ignorance of the law is no excuse . What part of work permit do people not understand?

Very true,and probably he didnt have bail bond neither.This guy has broken the law and to say he didnt know is testing our inteligence too much.

Where do you draw the line of breaking the law,i only punched him soft,or i only sold nidnoi,or i didnt know the law,or i only had a little bit of drugs in my pocket.

BREAK THE LAW AND YOU ARE IN TROUBLE,READ AND DIGEST ALL THE POSTS AND PAPERS

[Briggsy]

Ignorance of the law is no excuse . What part of work permit do people not understand?

Do you wash your wife's car or motorcycle or do any physical or mental work for either her or your family? Because if you do then you too need a work permit with or without payment.

Yes I wash her Merc & that of the Police Chief next door

Thats nothing i wash the chonburi mafias ham yai

And thus reveal your social circle.

[MeMock]

Ignorance of the law is no excuse . What part of work permit do people not understand?

Very true,and probably he didnt have bail bond neither.This guy has broken the law and to say he didnt know is testing our inteligence too much.

Why? He is sitting in the market drawing pictures of people, giving some away for free and charging 20 baht for others and because he is technically breaking the law then he deserves to be in jail for it? How many times have you broken the law and got away with it?

[Briggsy]

Ignorance of the law is no excuse . What part of work permit do people not understand?

Very true,and probably he didnt have bail bond neither.This guy has broken the law and to say he didnt know is testing our inteligence too much.

Why? He is sitting in the market drawing pictures of people, giving some away for free and charging 20 baht for others and because he is technically breaking the law then he deserves to be in jail for it? How many times have you broken the law and got away with it?

Well put MeMock.

If you look back at my earlier post, you will see the "hawks" will always focus on the fact that he has technically broken the law whilst the "doves" will always focus on the fact that his treatment has been totally disproportionate to his crime.

[TheWalkingMan]

19 Days in the can seems extremely harsh when a warning would have been more than sufficient.

TheWalkingMan

[Jonathanpattaya]

Does this mean he will be "drawing" his curtains?

[paulchiangmai]

Ignorance of the law is no excuse . What part of work permit do people not understand?

Very true,and probably he didnt have bail bond neither.This guy has broken the law and to say he didnt know is testing our inteligence too much.

Where do you draw the line of breaking the law,i only punched him soft,or i only sold nidnoi,or i didnt know the law,or i only had a little bit of drugs in my pocket.

BREAK THE LAW AND YOU ARE IN TROUBLE,READ AND DIGEST ALL THE POSTS AND PAPERS

What in hel_l is the problem with you and that mindless gotlost? Have you no compassion at all? He is a fellow falang and most certainly did not deserve this kind of treatment for such a trivial offence. God help this world when it has such uncaring people in it as you two.

[Tagaa]

I met this guy at a restaurant in town back before Christmas. He does cartoons & caricatures & did a caricature of the owner of the restaurant, in about 3 minutes. A very nice, affable, elderly fellow. He told me travels around the world & does this everywhere he goes. He enjoys people, this is a lot of fun for the subject & he creates lots of good will in the process.

I can't believe they arrested him, much less had him spend even one night in jail.

[gotlost]

Ignorance of the law is no excuse . What part of work permit do people not understand?

Very true,and probably he didnt have bail bond neither.This guy has broken the law and to say he didnt know is testing our inteligence too much.

Where do you draw the line of breaking the law,i only punched him soft,or i only sold nidnoi,or i didnt know the law,or i only had a little bit of drugs in my pocket.

BREAK THE LAW AND YOU ARE IN TROUBLE,READ AND DIGEST ALL THE POSTS AND PAPERS

What in hel_l is the problem with you and that mindless gotlost? Have you no compassion at all? He is a fellow falang and most certainly did not deserve this kind of treatment for such a trivial offence. God help this world when it has such uncaring people in it as you two.

I love you also sunshine. He broke their law. Go cry to the liberals. Oh and "God Help" this is a Buddhist country they do not believe in god.

[canuckamuck]

Got to love the hangem high crowd, they never miss an opportunity. I hope they never make a mistake though, they might get the same treatment.

[GarryP]

I hope they do. I wonder what they will be crowing then?

[TongueThaied]

Sometimes, Common sense is a rare commodity around here. What bs about washing a truck or other silly statements. Certain professions are classified as Thai only and cannot be work permitted., Among them, ARTIST. You simply cannot engage in commerce over here in any of those protected Kings list professions. That is a serious fopar as evidenced by that holiday in Jail and a quick expulsion. I shoot thousands of photos all over Thailand and when asked, do everything pro bono. I would never consider standing in a market selling my work product. I do wash her truck , her motobike , and wash her hair as well.

bella

Pro bono? Well that's against the law, too, Ace. You sound like you think you are a smart guy when it comes to common sense, but you don't even seem to know that the work permit law refers to work, mental or physical, whether compensated or not. If you give your photos away, you belong in jail right beside the poor bastard that sold drawings for a lousy 20 baht -- which IS practically free. So, if you want to knock somebody's common sense on something as stupid as this, check yourself first.

[JusMe]

Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Wasn't that a quotation from Surayud?

[Tanaka]

Sometimes, Common sense is a rare commodity around here. What bs about washing a truck or other silly statements. Certain professions are classified as Thai only and cannot be work permitted., Among them, ARTIST. You simply cannot engage in commerce over here in any of those protected Kings list professions. That is a serious fopar as evidenced by that holiday in Jail and a quick expulsion. I shoot thousands of photos all over Thailand and when asked, do everything pro bono. I would never consider standing in a market selling my work product. I do wash her truck , her motobike , and wash her hair as well.

bella

Pro bono? Well that's against the law, too, Ace. You sound like you think you are a smart guy when it comes to common sense, but you don't even seem to know that the work permit law refers to work, mental or physical, whether compensated or not. If you give your photos away, you belong in jail right beside the poor bastard that sold drawings for a lousy 20 baht -- which IS practically free. So, if you want to knock somebody's common sense on something as stupid as this, check yourself first.

Ace? ACE??? Oh dear!

[Prajak]

"Everybody must know the law" is a statement, feeling sorry for the guy too. And I feel sorry for him, even now he did something illegal. But did he know ? No one tells you when you enter the country. This artist did what every artist does: make something, create something. Have fun and make people smile.

This case could have been solved in a different way. Make the man understand the rules, take the 20 baht away from him, fine him with a 200, warn him and let him go. But the officer sticked to his principles and forgot that the man made a minor offence and forgot that this is the land of smiles.

Drugs available at the corner of the street; many violations of traffic rules; no helmet and no driving license; so many things wrong and than pick this man and deport him ? I have no words for this.

But may be we do not know everything. Did he have a big mouth ? Were his papers OK ? Did he have funds to live from ? Was this the first time they saw him doing this "terrible illegal things" ?

Many questions remain.

[gotlost]

"Everybody must know the law" is a statement, feeling sorry for the guy too. And I feel sorry for him, even now he did something illegal. But did he know ? No one tells you when you enter the country. This artist did what every artist does: make something, create something. Have fun and make people smile.

This case could have been solved in a different way. Make the man understand the rules, take the 20 baht away from him, fine him with a 200, warn him and let him go. But the officer sticked to his principles and forgot that the man made a minor offence and forgot that this is the land of smiles.

Drugs available at the corner of the street; many violations of traffic rules; no helmet and no driving license; so many things wrong and than pick this man and deport him ? I have no words for this.

But may be we do not know everything. Did he have a big mouth ? Were his papers OK ? Did he have funds to live from ? Was this the first time they saw him doing this "terrible illegal things" ?

Many questions remain.

When you travel to a foreign country you need to study and learn the local laws. No sympathy.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Danish-Tour-...ml#entry3268087

Work permit, work permit, work permit!!!!!

[cdnvic]

I'll go along with those who say he shouldn't have been selling these things. Had he been fined and warned, fair enough, but this is outrageous. It seems that sometimes officials in third world countries like to deal with their insecurities by bullying foreigners. I know it happens everywhere, but in Thailand it seems endemic. Brings back memories of threats made against those who were on the spot when the tsunami happened and rushed to help. They were threatened by some nobody immigration official far from the disaster because they had no work permits.

[mca]

Had he been fined and warned, fair enough, but this is outrageous.

Sadly cdnvic we're in a country where a video on the internet gets you 10 years in the nick so nothing really surprises me when it comes to a "crime" and the penalty in good old LOS.

[lioness]

He broke the law wether he knew it or not, ignorance is no excuse. But to be jailed and deported is beyond belief for such a misdemour, a warning and perhaps a small fine would have been more in keeping with the offence.

I feel rather sorry for him, if he is an aged person the experience would have been quite horrific.

[bellagrego]

Sometimes, Common sense is a rare commodity around here. What bs about washing a truck or other silly statements. Certain professions are classified as Thai only and cannot be work permitted., Among them, ARTIST. You simply cannot engage in commerce over here in any of those protected Kings list professions. That is a serious fopar as evidenced by that holiday in Jail and a quick expulsion. I shoot thousands of photos all over Thailand and when asked, do everything pro bono. I would never consider standing in a market selling my work product. I do wash her truck , her motobike , and wash her hair as well.

bella

Pro bono? Well that's against the law, too, Ace. You sound like you think you are a smart guy when it comes to common sense, but you don't even seem to know that the work permit law refers to work, mental or physical, whether compensated or not. If you give your photos away, you belong in jail right beside the poor bastard that sold drawings for a lousy 20 baht -- which IS practically free. So, if you want to knock somebody's common sense on something as stupid as this, check yourself first.

Usually, I just let insults slide but in your case, I will answer your snide, offensive "Ace", remarks in this way. This forum if an opportunity to express one's opinion on a variety of subjects and to share information both of a serious and a humorous nature. When you make personal , inflammatory, attacks on an individual , then you have defeated the purpose of this forum. You suggest, that you are an expert in Thai law and have some experience in translating your obvious English background into Thai jusis prudence. I find that highly unlikely. The other possibility is that you may have experience in the pointing room and actually know first hand what will land you in jail, or at least, give a prosecutor a reason to charge you. Common sense and good judgement are a gift, you obviously, were not, so blessed.