Phuket Battered By Baroque Booze Controls

[webfact]

Opinion:

Phuket battered by Baroque booze 'controls'

Insiders know how and where to shop, but bizarre booze rules continue to damage Phuket tourism.

PHUKET: After more than a year in power, it's time for the government of Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to rethink the confusing and ineffectual regulations that apply to the retail sale of alcohol products in Thailand.

First to go should be the regulation that limits the sale of alcohol at retail outlets to the hours of 11am to 2pm and from 5pm until midnight. This annoying regulation, put in place by the Thaksin administration at the height of its odious 'Social Engineering' campaign, was ostensibly enacted to stop minors from buying or consuming alcohol products on their way home from school.

The sheer absurdity of this rationale is demonstrated by the fact that people under the age of 18 are already prohibited by law from buying alcohol anyway – at any time. Could any Thai government really believe that the kind of mom-and-pop store operators willing to sell booze to teens at 9am are going to deny them the same privilege at four in the afternoon?

The government should get serious about enforcing the more important provisions of the 2008 Alcohol Control Act that call for fines and/or imprisonment for those who sell alcohol to minors, and abandon the time restrictions that inconvenience tourists and other adults who don't have friends working in mini-marts.

Another vexing aspect of the ill-conceived regulations on alcohol sales hours is the amount of alcohol involved. Bulk purchases of alcoholic products are not covered by the law. This means the sale of a case of 12 large bottles of beer is forbidden between the hours of 2pm and 5pm. But throw three more bottles into the shopping cart and the sale is legal. This might actually encourage people to drink more alcohol than they otherwise would, which obviously runs counter to the objectives of the Act.

The people who suffer most from these restrictions are those who might be shopping at, say 4pm in preparation for an evening at home with friends, or who might not have the financial means or knowledge to buy alcohol in the amount required to exempt the purchase. And one can't help but feel sorry for retail staff who need to explain the regulations over and over again to legions of bewildered, if not angry, tourists.

The sales time restrictions are only one of a number of alcohol control measures in Thailand that need revision or scrapping altogether. Another is the widely flouted rule, again put in place by Mr Thaksin's Social Engineers, that requires entertainment venues to close at 1am.

No province suffers more from these draconian rules than Phuket.

Phuket currently has three MPs and two senators, including the chair of the Senate Committee on Tourism. It is time they get together and lobby Cabinet to change these curious regulations and reverse the damage they are inflicting on tourism.

-- Phuket Gazette 2010-01-17

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[londonthai]

"phuket battered", "draconian rules" are here for many years now and tourists are still coming and drinking a lot.

this law is more strictly enforced in phuket, that in the other touristy places, for example na kho samui you can buy beer anywhere and anytime - the cops are getting their share and everything is kosher.

now the phuket gazette should launch an educational campaign to tourists about an option of buying 15 bottles without restrictions

[Boater]

The people who suffer most from these restrictions are those who might be shopping at, say 4pm in preparation for an evening at home with friends, or who might not have the financial means or knowledge to buy alcohol in the amount required to exempt the purchase. And one can't help but feel sorry for retail staff who need to explain the regulations over and over again to legions of bewildered, if not angry, tourists.

when we used to shop in Tesco around this time and by small amounts of booze, the lady at the counter would always total the amount amount on calculator and we would pay, all she did was wait untill enough people had bought enough booze then put the transaction through the till ( as the till would not allow the sale )

I have also noticed some 7-11 and more or less every family mart still sell during these hours....

[lazygourmet]

The people who suffer most from these restrictions are those who might be shopping at, say 4pm in preparation for an evening at home with friends, or who might not have the financial means or knowledge to buy alcohol in the amount required to exempt the purchase. And one can't help but feel sorry for retail staff who need to explain the regulations over and over again to legions of bewildered, if not angry, tourists.

when we used to shop in Tesco around this time and by small amounts of booze, the lady at the counter would always total the amount amount on calculator and we would pay, all she did was wait untill enough people had bought enough booze then put the transaction through the till ( as the till would not allow the sale )

I have also noticed some 7-11 and more or less every family mart still sell during these hours....

Same "rule" here at my local Carrefour...

[moskito]

if someone wants to buy booze he gets it ANYTIME, at least in the small chinese shops which are giving a sh..i+ on this redicoulus law.

If the big companies like Lotus, BigC or Macro want loose more and more customers they should go on with the regulation, Most of their staff dont even

know it is allowed to buy alcohol if one buys more than a box. Totally confusing sometimes, specially if one trys to do shopping for a restaurant

If someone wants to drink, NOTHING will stop him to get the stuff!

[ScubaBuddha]

This law is as absurd as it is ineffective. There is a list of nonsensical TIT laws, policies and actions somewhere. Might be too anti-Thia for ThaiVisa, but if anyone has that link....this should definitely be included. Reminds me of the time the Bangkok Mayor decided that , to ease traffic congestion, he would "have all the street signals turned green during rush hour."

Here in Phuket the law is adhered to occasionally. Once at Tesco I was prohibited from making a purchase between 2 and 5. As mentioned, the tills won't process the sale. Also happened once at 7-11. Then I went next door to the other 7-11 and they had no problem. (We have a lot of 7-11's here. In Patong on Ratuthit there are 2 Family Marts on the same side of the street separated only by a 7-11, with yet another Family Mart directly opposite!)

Edited January 17, 2010 by ScubaBuddha

[londonthai]

This law is as absurd as it is ineffective. There is a list of nonsensical TIT laws, policies and actions somewhere.

a very similar laws were in the uk for almost the whole 20th century, not forgetting prohibition in the usa in the twenties

Edited January 17, 2010 by londonthai

[animatic]

"phuket battered", "draconian rules" are here for many years now and tourists are still coming and drinking a lot.

this law is more strictly enforced in phuket, that in the other touristy places, for example na kho samui you can buy beer anywhere and anytime - the cops are getting their share and everything is kosher.

now the phuket gazette should launch an educational campaign to tourists about an option of buying 15 bottles without restrictions

All 3 Tesco's and Big C and Makro all follow this law.

Makro profits the most becaue it is selling mostly bulk anyway

and so most of it's customers are there buy to stock their bars etc.

This afternoon minimum purchase law is a waste of everyones time,

and trouble. The kids prepared to find an after school botle will anyway.

And those tourists and expats planning a party have to wait.

Same for all imbibing Thais who drink in moderation.

Start enforcing the trafic and drink drive laws,

and the under age on bikes laws,

and the selling booze to kids laws!

THAT all would make a dent in the drinking by minors.

[pontius]

That law is a bit pathetic, but remember England, not too long ago?

Anyway, as many said, it will prevent you from drinking for about 5 minutes, the time it takes to find a smaller shop.

[mccw]

24 hour drinking pls; back to the days when the place doesn't close till last customer leaves

[orlov]

The curious thing about Pattaya is that whilst the large supermarkets adhere to the law and, as has been mentioned already, can't process the sales anyway because of restrictions put on the tills, the slightly smaller supermarkets such as Best in North Pattaya Road just by the Dolphin roundabout, don't have any problem selling alcohol 24 hrs a day. Do they just ignore the law or what?

[tukkae4]

This annoying regulation, put in place by the Thaksin administration

When it was reinforced ( o.k. it was theThaksin Administration a few years ago), some superstores put up signs where you could read in English "by Revolutionary Council Order xxx/251y" (forgive me for not memorising the exact number of that stupid law - the Thai version was something about "Khana Patiwat") That makes it more likely that this stuff was already enforced by military dictatorship during the 1960's or 70's

So it's a little hard to blame Khun Thaksin alone for it. By his big majority in Parliament it would have been easier for him than now to enact a more appropriate law , but don't expect any amendments from Khun Abhisit soon...

[fiercesnake]

Good on the Phukhet Gazette! Was this a Thai that wrote the initial post? Sounds more like farang criticism but I would so be happy to see some average Thais feeling free enough to start criticism where it is deserved especially in their own press. Too many journalists here just print whatever officialdom here tell them too. Only people that ask relevant questions at press conferences are foreigners usually from BBC or similar real news networks.

The laws are truly ineffectual and draconian! Totally agree with the sentiment expressed, though I rarely drink it is just so annoying to get this nonsense "No cannot!" response at 1 minute past 2 at the Tesco counter or is it the other way around!? God so totally ridiculous!

[richieudon]

It's a pretty annoying law but on the other hand it helps the small retailer.

Tesco Lotus and the likes of them are killing small businesses all over Thailand

At least this way the little guys get a few hours of being able to sell 1 or 2 products.

I've sighed many a time whilst stocking my trolley in lotus only to be told it's 14.05 Hrs but I can buy a box of beer cheaper at my local wholesaler..it ain't the end of the world...

I really don't see how this law stops minors buying alcohol.

The only way to stop it is EVERYONE refusing to sell without ID..

I don't think that's gonna happen....

[SurfRider]

.

"The curious thing about Pattaya is that whilst the large supermarkets adhere to the law and ... can't process the sales anyway because of restrictions put on the tills ... smaller supermarkets such as Best ... don't have any problem selling alcohol 24 hrs a day"

True, and the difference is ownership -- The large foreign owned venues, Tesco ( British ), Carrefour ( French ), think they need to conform to the "letter of the law" or risk possible heavy retribution that is commonly levied on errant Farangs -- where the Thai owned businesses ( Foodland, Best, Friendship, etc. ) know they're untouchable and can sell off-hours without fear.

.

[jb5music]

24 hour drinking pls; back to the days when the place doesn't close till last customer leaves

I remember it well. That was the period I lived in Thailand. Half way to Cambodia on a visa run in the middle of the night on

your own bike. Pull into a gas station and buy a Heineken. Instead of everybody creeping around and covering there mouth

and whispering and pointing - The nice little cashier girl would whip out the bottle opener at 3 AM and wave it. Being from LA I would

laugh practically and look over my shoulder for the sheriffs. (What a trip I would think)

I'd say "Oh no - thank you - no that's very nice"

Then you were sitting on the typical marble table outside, waving to all

the curious lookie lews that had never seen a falong. Even the police would roll through.

Stare straight at you drinking a beer at 3AM and wave real friendly.

No - now your a criminal like you always were in Western society.

Your sitting there drinking a beer - You're a criminal.

And now in Thailland - the same thing - You're a crimminal

Just like that - over night . The entire population changes

how they view someone sitting there drinking a beer.

The end of the world must be near.

[londonthai]

as I believe all foreign companies do have minimum 51% local shares, so not much about "farang owners".

simply big companies do have to play by rules, bacause they have a lot on stake to loose and they can't encourage their staff to brake the law by selling alkohol.

smaller shops do pay cops some 10% "protection money" and it covers selling buzz 24/7

[SurfRider]

.

"simply big companies do have to play by rules"

True, and can you imagine the amount of Tea-Money that Tesco, Carrefour, and Big-C would need to pay to be able to sell the same hours as the Thai businesses? They would need a fleet of armored vehicles just to transport the funds to city hall.

.

[Spoonman]

such as Best in North Pattaya Road just by the Dolphin roundabout, don't have any problem selling alcohol 24 hrs a day. Do they just ignore the law or what?

Best used to enforce the stupid law, wonder why they stopped ??

Luckily I have an Alcohol wholesaler just round the corner from me, never an issue to buy some beers.

Edited January 17, 2010 by Spoonman

[bellste]

.

"The curious thing about Pattaya is that whilst the large supermarkets adhere to the law and ... can't process the sales anyway because of restrictions put on the tills ... smaller supermarkets such as Best ... don't have any problem selling alcohol 24 hrs a day"

True, and the difference is ownership -- The large foreign owned venues, Tesco ( British ), Carrefour ( French ), think they need to conform to the "letter of the law" or risk possible heavy retribution that is commonly levied on errant Farangs -- where the Thai owned businesses ( Foodland, Best, Friendship, etc. ) know they're untouchable and can sell off-hours without fear.

.

As far as I know, all the companies you mention, is in Thailand, Thai owned.

Edited January 17, 2010 by bellste

[bellste]

The reason they introduced this law, was they should prevent young school-children from buying alcohol on their way home from school. That's why you can buy a whole box, but not one or two bottles. (The children don't have the money for a whole box.)

There has been a law for many years, which say that people under the age of 18 years, is not allowed to bye alcohol at all, so I don't see the point with this special law from 2 to 5 p m? 

Edited January 17, 2010 by bellste

[Briggsy]

.

"The curious thing about Pattaya is that whilst the large supermarkets adhere to the law and ... can't process the sales anyway because of restrictions put on the tills ... smaller supermarkets such as Best ... don't have any problem selling alcohol 24 hrs a day"

True, and the difference is ownership -- The large foreign owned venues, Tesco ( British ), Carrefour ( French ), think they need to conform to the "letter of the law" or risk possible heavy retribution that is commonly levied on errant Farangs -- where the Thai owned businesses ( Foodland, Best, Friendship, etc. ) know they're untouchable and can sell off-hours without fear.

.

Yet Foodland in Lad Phrao strictly adheres to this law. TIT!

[SurfRider]

.

bellste: "As far as I know, all the companies you mention, is in Thailand Thai owned."

Tesco is a UK-based international grocery and general merchandising retail chain. It is the largest British retailer by both global sales and domestic market share, with profits exceeding £3 billion. It is currently the third largest global retailer based on revenue, behind Wal-Mart and France's Carrefour, but second largest based on profit, ahead of Carrefour.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesco

Carrefour is a French international hypermarket chain. Headquartered in Levallois-Perret, France Carrefour is the largest hypermarket chain in the world in terms of size, and the second largest retail group in the world in terms of revenue and third largest in profit after Wal-Mart and Tesco. Carrefour operates mainly in Europe, China, Colombia, Brazil, Argentina and in the Dominican Republic, but also has shops in North Africa and other parts of Asia. Carrefour means "crossroads" in French.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrefour

.

[Powerband]

Stupid rule or maybe not?...only large chains such as 7-11 or the like are affected...

small mom and pop neighborhood shops continue to sell...anytime...

this rule helps small proprietors....

school kids arent going to buy from 7-11 anyway...too obvious.

real reason is too increase country productivity, or an attempt at least.

[mikebike]

24 hour drinking pls; back to the days when the place doesn't close till last customer leaves

I remember it well. That was the period I lived in Thailand. Half way to Cambodia on a visa run in the middle of the night on

your own bike. Pull into a gas station and buy a Heineken. Instead of everybody creeping around and covering there mouth

and whispering and pointing - The nice little cashier girl would whip out the bottle opener at 3 AM and wave it. Being from LA I would

laugh practically and look over my shoulder for the sheriffs. (What a trip I would think)

I'd say "Oh no - thank you - no that's very nice"

Then you were sitting on the typical marble table outside, waving to all

the curious lookie lews that had never seen a falong. Even the police would roll through.

Stare straight at you drinking a beer at 3AM and wave real friendly.

No - now your a criminal like you always were in Western society.

Your sitting there drinking a beer - You're a criminal.

And now in Thailland - the same thing - You're a crimminal

Just like that - over night . The entire population changes

how they view someone sitting there drinking a beer.

The end of the world must be near.

Uhmmm... where exactly has this practice stopped and who's getting busted for it? Yeah, bars in controlled areas may be occasionally monitored but having a cold beer, anytime, (almost) anywhere, isn't a problem today... sat drinking cold ones on a bench outside the train station in Surat Thani with a couple of BIBs recently...

.

bellste: "As far as I know, all the companies you mention, is in Thailand Thai owned."

Tesco is a UK-based international grocery and general merchandising retail chain. It is the largest British retailer by both global sales and domestic market share, with profits exceeding £3 billion. It is currently the third largest global retailer based on revenue, behind Wal-Mart and France's Carrefour, but second largest based on profit, ahead of Carrefour.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesco

Yada, yada with yer wiki quotes... Its Tesco-freakin'-Lotus and its Asian controlled... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesco_Lotus "Tesco Lotus is a hypermarket chain in Thailand and China. In Thailand, the stores are operated by Ek-Chai Distribution System Co., Ltd."

[kmj]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesco

Yada, yada with yer wiki quotes... Its Tesco-freakin'-Lotus and its Asian controlled... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesco_Lotus "Tesco Lotus is a hypermarket chain in Thailand and China. In Thailand, the stores are operated by Ek-Chai Distribution System Co., Ltd."

I'm not sure that's correct ownership and operations are different, PriceWaterhouseCoopers shows tesco ownership though special dispencation after the buyout.

Tesco entered Thailand in 1998 and operates through 380 stores as part of a joint venture with Charoen Pokphand and named the operation Tesco Lotus. This partnership was dissolved in 2003 when Charoen Pokphand sold its shares to Tesco.

see the last public report from PriceWaterhouseCoopers (2004)

Sources: Companies’ annual reports

you have to pay for the latest reports but the information is the same.

Tesco Lotus (Thailand, China)

Tesco Lotus was established in 1998, when Tesco UK

purchased the Lotus chain from the CP Group. Tesco

Lotus has developed three smaller alternatives to its

giant flagship superstores, being Tesco Express - mini

supermarkets at ExxonMobil service stations, Tesco

Supermarkets and Tesco Value stores in small towns.

Tesco Lotus currently has 48 hypermarkets, 9 Express

stores, 8 Value stores and 1 supermarket. In 2004 the

company plans to continue with its large-scale

expansion program and will open stores in various

formats, mainly upcountry.

Big C

Big C commenced trading in Thailand in 1993 under

the control of the Central Retail Corporation (CRC).

However, after the financial crisis in 1997, French

retailer Casino Group bought up the majority of shares.

Since its core customers are price sensitive, Big C has

launched own-brand stores under the name “Leader

Price”. These stores sell in-house brands at prices

15-20% lower than general brands. There are currently

four Leader Price stores in Bangkok.

Big C also plans to move to smaller stores closer to

communities to lower opposition and generate faster

investment returns. In 2004, Big C opened its first Big

C “Compact” store with a total sales space of 6,000

square meters. It plans to open another two new

stores upcountry during the year.

Carrefour

Carrefour commenced business in Thailand in 1996.

The group has received special investment privileges

relating to land ownership. To maintain these privileges

Carrefour was initially restricted to the Bangkok area.

Carrefour also has plans to expand upcountry in 2004

and intends to open four new stores.

[basjke]

Since its core customers are price sensitive, Big C has

launched own-brand stores under the name “Leader

Price”. These stores sell in-house brands at prices

15-20% lower than general brands. There are currently

four Leader Price stores in Bangkok.

Leader price is an international chain of supermarkets based in France and founded in 1989 with over 700 branches worldwide.

[tominbkk]

Crazy law. On my way home, doing my shopping for dinner at Foodland, I am not allowed to buy a nice bottle of wine to go with it. But by my house, the two mom and pop shops that are literally 2 minutes walk from a high school would openly sell me beer or whiskey any time.

[grantbkk]

A well written and well thought out piece by the Phuket Gazette. This is one of the higher profile laws that only affects the tourists or the uninformed. There was another reason that the law pertaining to closing hours was brought into effect: To reduce domestic violence as the Thai man would be home earlier reducing the chance he would beat his wife and kids.

Amazing Thailand! Burma with Electricity!

[p_brownstone]

Here in Bangkok I notice that Villa - at least the one on Sukhumvit 33/1 - sells alcohol at any time of the day.

Irritatingly even some restaurants - Fuji for one - interpret the law to mean that selling Beer with a meal after 2.00 pm is against the law.

Patrick