English At Kindergarten 3 Age

[basjke]

I assume this is the right forum to get an answer to my question.If not feel free to move it.

I'm taking care for a now almost 6 year old Luk krueng boy for the past 18 months.In October 2008 I enrolled him in an English program school in kindergarten 2.At that time he could not understand a single word of English.Six months later I was already able to have a conversation with him in English.It was clear that he understood almost everything I told him in English.

Now at the end of his kindergarten 3 year it seems from his homework that he can read and write Thai,unless he fools me since I can't read Thai of course,but he can read almost no English at all.

Is this normal at this age or should I conclude something out of this?

[Scott]

It's worth a visit to his school to see what is going on. The reading and writing portion of the program may be weak, or he may be weak in these skills. Different kids are going to learn at different rates. I know a fair number of students who 'should' be able to read simple words, but can't. You might want to check him with simple words, like the colors, a few animals (cat, dog etc), a few adjectives, like big and small.

If he's getting some reading and writing at school but it isn't sticking, then a little bit of help from you may give him the push he needs.

Mentally, reading and writing are complicated processes and it takes sometime for them to click for some kids. The trick is to not let him get too far behind by the time he catches on to it.

Don't push him too much; that only seems to turn some kids off. Maybe a few flashcards with words on it to start with. Things like red on the front and the color on the back or a cat, then a picture on the back or just the word is OK too.

Hopefully some others will be along with advice.

[tonititan]

If I'm reading correctly, he's only had 1 year of English exposure/education, right? I don't think it should be a huge concern that he isn't reading English yet. Some Thai children can learn to read basic English is one year, but many others cannot.

Do you know if he can attempt to sound out simple words? Does he know all of the letters in the English alphabet? More importantly, does he have the sound-letter correspondence yet? For example, if he sees a letter "t," can he tell you that it makes the sound "ttt," and not just give you the letter name "tee?" I would take a look at that, as he may need to strengthen that area before he can progress very far in reading.

Like Scott said, I would also check out he school. It's an English program, but how much instruction in English is the boy really receiving? Are the books and posters around the classroom in English or Thai? Is he seeing much English print during the day? Have his English classes even started working on writing in English yet? How does the teacher view the boy's skills as compared to other children of his age/language background? Those are things I would want to know. It's possible that his teachers have focused more on speaking and have not formally addressed writing.

[basjke]

He can read the names of most of the colors however on friday he got an English worksheet which had 4 questions written on it to which he had to write the answers.The questions were like,What do you do in the winter and how is the weather in the winter.The only word he could read was "do".Let stand that he could write down any possible answer.

However I notice when he get a Thai worksheet he can just add the missing thai letters or he can complete the worksheet by reading the instructions written in Thai.So I assumed that if he can read Thai he should be able to read English at the same time or is this not so?

At what age should they be able to read?

[tonititan]

I don't think we can assume that a young child who can read in one language can necessarily read in another language, especially when they are using two completely different alphabets (as in this case). He has probably had a lot more instruction in reading in Thai, which is why he is better at it. Those skills won't automatically transfer to English.

I don't think it's really possible to give a certain age in which children should read, since all children are different and the definition of "read" varies (you may define "reading" differently than I do). But, if the boy is 6 and can read and write in Thai quite well for his age, then I wouldn't worry about an underlying learning difficulty. It sounds as if he simply needs more instruction and time in English. If he was having difficulty with knowing letters and reading words in English AND Thai, that might be more of a concern, but luckily it sounds like that is not the problem.

[scorecard]

Already some good comments and advice.

Can I add the following:

My Thai granddaughter went to a good quality Thai kinder for level 1, the school doesn't teach spoken English but they do teach reading and writing English characters. At the end of Kinder level 1 she was able to recite the whole English alphabet starting from anywhere, identify all letters / find all letters on a random basis, but only the upper case or hard sounds.

At the start of the Kinder 2 year we transferred her to a bi-lingual school (Amnuay Silpa on Sri Ayudhya Road, Bkk). During the Kinder 2 year the English teachers (all farang with specialist training to teach English as a second language to small children) placed a lot of emphasis on learning the soft sounds.

At the end of the Kinder 2 level she could write many English words with some speed, and she could read English words quite well (I guess up to about 4 or 5 letters in each words, beyond that she takes a little longer but usually gets it right.

Her spoken English and English listening comprehension skill is quite good (for her age, now 4.5 years). I have continuous conversations with her in English and she understands probably 95% of what I say / ask, and she has the confidence to quickly response, in English, and does quite well.

In your case, If the child can speak English well for his/her age, then I would be surprised if the school has NOT been putting a lot of attention onto learning to recognize, verbalize, read and write the English alphabet. All schools, globally, put great emphasis (or should put great emphasis) on building very strong foundations, for anything, this is a very well established principle of teaching and learning.

If your child in fact cannot read / write English then I would get a Thai person to check the accuracy of his/her reading / writing of the Thai language.

If the level of development of reading/writing Thai is up to speed for the age group, then I can't see that there would be any learning difficulty in regard to learning to read/write the English alphabet, unless the school has been neglecting this aspect of the curriculum.

Perhaps the school has only taught the children the hard (or upper case) sounds for each letter but not taught them the lower case or soft sounds. E.g. D d dog.

I would support the suggestion of not pushing too hard. Perhaps there is a hidden reason which is even intimidating the child, and this would need to be handled very carefully. Pushing hard and frightening the child is definitely not a good move.

Is there a counselor, appropriate to the age group, available at the school? If there is an underlying problem then the quicker it's discovered and carefully handled the better.

There can be lots of support at home for English learning for small children. A quick internet search will provide lots of ideas.

[Credo]

The example you gave about the weather are very complex sentences. My guess is that most students at that age couldn't read and answer such questions--or at least shouldn't be expected to.

I have taught a lot of starter classes on up at a private tutorial school. The gap between the weakest and strongest is enormous when it comes to the different skills. The variable seems to be the emphasis placed on them by the school they attend. I have students who can't answer the simplest question, but can read like the wind. I have others who can chatter away but can't read the simplest of words. Once in a while, you find a child who has simply slipped through the cracks. Since he has word recognition (colors) start from there with some simple sentences. He should read and copy them. Things like: It is a black cat. It is a white cat. It is a blue car. It is a green car. Try and keep the sentences using the same words but changing one. Then progress from there to sentences with they are black cats...etc.

Some really simple children's stories that you can read to him at bedtime is a great way to help with both reading and quality time. Reading to a child makes a HUGE difference. Also, remember to make it an enjoyable and reasonably fun time. It doesn't take long, maybe 10 or 15 minutes a day--otherwise it starts feeling like work.

Some words that kids have a real problem getting their head around are "circle" 'every' and 'very'. Apostrophe's will throw them as well.

[basjke]

Thanks everyone for the useful replies.I will try to find out how his knowledge in the Thai language is in reality compared to his age.Some of you suggest that I teach him myself but I think I'm not in the right situation for that since I'm no native english speaker myself so probably I would do more damage then good.For sure the school has started already teaching reading and writing as about 4 months ago he would every week get a sheet with 6 easy English words on it which he had to study out of his head by the end of that week.The problem was that I would teach him 2 of the words each day and by the end of the week he could write and spell them all if I asked him to.However if I would ask him to write down the same words 3 weeks later he would remember maybe 1 out of 6.Every word I show him he can spell perfect but he can not pronounce them.

Also he has to wake up every day at 6 am to return home at 4.30 pm which I thought might be too long days for a child of his age.It may be that he is to tired to pay full attention in the classroom in my opinion.

That is why I was considering to send him to a Thai school nearby in the next term so that he has some more rest during the weekdays and then send him on Saturdays to a private English teacher to improve his English skills.Do you think this is a good idea or not and would it be favorable for his English learning?

[Scott]

As he is of mixed ancestry, I would suggest leaving him in an English program. You don't need to be a native speaker to assist him a little, and it sounds like you already are. I would still check with the school, and then let him develop at his own pace, with encouragement.

I would suggest teaching him, but just a little helping and encouragement as he can already speak quite well to you.

By the way, he's quite lucky to have a caregiver who takes as much interest in his studies as you do.

[basjke]

As he is of mixed ancestry, I would suggest leaving him in an English program. You don't need to be a native speaker to assist him a little, and it sounds like you already are. I would still check with the school, and then let him develop at his own pace, with encouragement.

I would suggest teaching him, but just a little helping and encouragement as he can already speak quite well to you.

By the way, he's quite lucky to have a caregiver who takes as much interest in his studies as you do.

Thanks for the heads up Scott.However don't you think that schooldays from 6 am (wake-up time) till 4.30 pm plus let's say another 1 hour to finish his homework are too long days for a child of his age to develop at a normal pace.

[Firelily]

Try www dot starfall dot com . Children this age are absolutely crazy about it and virtually teach themselves to read.

[basjke]

Try www dot starfall dot com . Children this age are absolutely crazy about it and virtually teach themselves to read.

Thanks for that link Firelily,I browsed a bit through site and at first glance it looks tremendous indeed.If you have more similar links please post them here.I'll have to figure out to get him a cheap computer as he doesn't have his own one yet and I'm not sure if it is a good idea to let him use mine.

[Scott]

Yes, I think the school day is too long. But between the two choices, I think I would go with the English version now. As he gets older, he can become more active in making choices. But please remember, as a caregiver your on the right track and I think whatever you chose, it will be the right one for you and him.

Take a look at how he's coping. If he's stressed, unhappy, acting out, not wanting to get up for school, then a change would be good. If he's basically happy and coping, then his current situation is OK.

[basjke]

As he is of mixed ancestry, I would suggest leaving him in an English program. You don't need to be a native speaker to assist him a little, and it sounds like you already are. I would still check with the school, and then let him develop at his own pace, with encouragement.

I would suggest teaching him, but just a little helping and encouragement as he can already speak quite well to you.

By the way, he's quite lucky to have a caregiver who takes as much interest in his studies as you do.

Actually one of the reasons why i was considering to enroll him in a private Thai language school and have some English teaching added during free time was because of the news item some time ago that the Thai government ruled that certain subjects required to be taught in English from next term.I didn't follow the thread but from the early replies I could understand that it was better for the student to teach those in his native language as he would understand them easier.So even while the boy is half blood he has grown up from the day he was born in Isaan and just came to Pattaya at the age of 4 1/2 years.

So do you still consider an English program as the best solution or does the new info about his roots change your opinion?

Edit to add:in reply to your last post,he loves to go to school and I have never seen him unhappy in all his life but I can notice that he is short of sleep as he is dreaming during his morning shower and breakfast and I have to continuously push him to get things finished.

Edited January 19, 2010 by basjke

[Scott]

I would be careful about what the gov't says it's going to do and how it is going to be implemented. As I read that article, it simply means some poor, ill-equipped Thai-teacher is going to be forced to teach some subject in English. I hope I am wrong. These type of regulations are probably counter-productive because it means that students really aren't learning anything in any language. They simply become illiterate in two languages. In addition, they do not grasp the subject material.

There has to be a 'foundation' language or primary language for students. Here in Thailand, that is Thai (with some exceptions). The concepts for a subject are taught in the native language. The use of English is supplementary and serves a different purpose. Try to explain division to a child in English who hasn't been taught it in Thai.

As students get older, if they are in a bilingual program, they are able to begin learning in a different language, but this is a a ways down the road.

If you are going to put him in a program like you mentioned, please check it out carefully and don't necessarily believe the hype given by the school.

[basjke]

I think I made myself misunderstood with my previous post and I'm not sure if I understand your post correctly.What I actually meant is that I consider that the new rule from the ministry of education will not be enforced at the end and that with enrolling him in a Thai program he will be taught maths and science in his native Thai language.

I would then have him taught English on Saturday for example.Do you think this could be a good solution based on his background.

Not sure I understand what you mean with believing the hype given by the school.

[Scott]

Sorry if I am confusing you. There is talk about teaching some subjects in English in the Thai school system. Decide the primary language of instruction based on his background, your funds, and future plans. If you plan for him to eventually live or go to school overseas, then an international program in English is the best option.

If he may go to school in Thailand or maybe overseas, then a bilingual program is his best option.

If he is going to always remain in a Thailand with no need for international credentials or programs, then a Thai program is fine.

Bilingual programs are a good choice if you don't really know. The instruction is in both languages.

[basjke]

Sorry if I am confusing you. There is talk about teaching some subjects in English in the Thai school system. Decide the primary language of instruction based on his background, your funds, and future plans. If you plan for him to eventually live or go to school overseas, then an international program in English is the best option.

If he may go to school in Thailand or maybe overseas, then a bilingual program is his best option.

If he is going to always remain in a Thailand with no need for international credentials or programs, then a Thai program is fine.

Bilingual programs are a good choice if you don't really know. The instruction is in both languages.

Thanks for the replies.However to be able to make up my mind I would like to ask if you could answer 3 questions for me.

-Do you consider the eduacation in total at a private thai school at the same level as a school with an English program?

-How much chance you give it that the new rule of forcing them to teach some subjects in English will not be enforced?

-If I send him to a thai school and let him follow extra English classes 1 day a week,will this be better or worse for his English language skills compared to sending him to a school with an English program?

Thanks in advance.

[Firelily]

Unless he is really eager to learn and loves school, I would not send my kid to extra classes on Saturdays. Once he starts first grade, in any school, bilingual or Thai, he will be overwhelmed with homework on top of staying in a classroom from 8 a.m. to 3:30 p.m. on every weekday. Many children find it very difficult to cope with the hours, even if they are talented and enjoy school.

If you speak English with him, once a week should be enough to get him going with his reading and writing. However, if that is the only English he gets, I don't think it will be very effective. Kids at this age can easily forget a language if there is no or significantly less exposure.

What I would be looking at is class sizes - no matter if you go for an English / bilingual or Thai program, no 6-year-old kid thrives in a class of 45. It IS still happening in private schools and people are actually paying for that, which totally puzzles me. I teach 6-year-olds and honestly I have no idea how any teaching and learning takes place in those large classes, especially when they seriously start working on reading and writing, which is best done in small groups or individually.

Starfall is by far the best resource I know, don't really have any other links to share that come close, unless you need worksheet makers and stuff like that, in that case, search for "fun fonix".

[Scott]

There is a huge difference between schools, although I can't make any definitive generalizations that would be helpful. I have taught private tutorial classes (for a small tutorial school) for many years. Most Thai schools have a really very poor standard of English. With private schools, it's quite a bit better, but it all over the place. I've seen schools with a mini-English program and the students are quite good. I've seen some rather expensive programs and the students are not very competent. You will have to check out the schools rather carefully.

An hour of English on the weekends is OK, but it's not going to be too significant. If he doesn't mind doing it, OK. If he's in a good English program or a bilingual program, it's really not necessary.

The teaching of subjects in English--no idea, but I am guessing it will be a disaster--at least initially.

[basjke]

Unless he is really eager to learn and loves school, I would not send my kid to extra classes on Saturdays. Once he starts first grade, in any school, bilingual or Thai, he will be overwhelmed with homework on top of staying in a classroom from 8 a.m. to 3:30 p.m. on every weekday. Many children find it very difficult to cope with the hours, even if they are talented and enjoy school.

If you speak English with him, once a week should be enough to get him going with his reading and writing. However, if that is the only English he gets, I don't think it will be very effective. Kids at this age can easily forget a language if there is no or significantly less exposure.

What I would be looking at is class sizes - no matter if you go for an English / bilingual or Thai program, no 6-year-old kid thrives in a class of 45. It IS still happening in private schools and people are actually paying for that, which totally puzzles me. I teach 6-year-olds and honestly I have no idea how any teaching and learning takes place in those large classes, especially when they seriously start working on reading and writing, which is best done in small groups or individually.

Starfall is by far the best resource I know, don't really have any other links to share that come close, unless you need worksheet makers and stuff like that, in that case, search for "fun fonix".

Reason i would send him to Thai school and send him to extra class on Saturday is because he could go to a school closer to home and save at least 2 hours each day in travel time which in turn would give him the ability to attend the classes in a rested condition.The school he is enrolled now has a limit of 25 students per class.I also see you mention english/bilingual,I thought they were the same thing or if not can you explain me the difference.

Currently he is in an English program school which I think he get about 30% of the lessons taught in English.

[Firelily]

I think originally English program means that most subjects are taught in English only (maths, science for sure), and bilingual means that they are taught both in English and Thai. Both would have Thai reading and writing of course on top of that. However, as I see it around here, both are used by some schools to describe programs with a mixture of Thai and English. You will need to find out about the details from the schools you have in mind, I think.