Why is Russia such a cesspool?

[SirSpike]

I've been a long time reader here, but only just started posting. I currently live in the UK but visited Thailand on a number of occasions over the past 10 yrs. Like many others on here the dream would be to make the move to the Land of The Smiles but not without a job.

This is not a cry for westerner seeks job so please read on, I'm hoping to create more of a discussion about what is really needed from an expat to seal that all important job offer, yes the Xpat Factor - people say that the key to landing work in Thailand is to be able to offer what no Thai can offer, what i'd like to hear from those people that have made it to Thailand from whatever country of origin; is what do you feel you took to your current role that your employer could not have got from a Thai person?

On a side note are the majority of expats employed in Thailand sent there through the company they worked for in another country or have people explicitly been employed and sent to Bangkok, or found work directly within Bangkok before moving.

I look forward to some interesting responses.

Best wishes to all.

[thaimite]

I have been working overseas for the past 15 years, including a spell in Thailand.

To me the single most important thing in landing an overseas contract is contacts, and that is something you can only get by being in the expat circle, or having friends who can recommend you.

I started my expat life by being sent by my company in the UK to HK, and after several years there had made enough contacts with other expats and had proven myself able to not only do the work, but to be able to stay in an expat environment that I was able to get more work.

I am lucky that my field is fairly specialised and experience counts for a lot.

I also feel many employers are loath to start an expat on his first job in case they decide they do not like the life or the country, or ccannot fit in with the expat environment. It is very different working in a country than going for a holiday. In addition many expat packages are long hours and short leave cycles allbeit for a good salary.

[Soutpeel]

I have been working overseas for the past 15 years, including a spell in Thailand.

To me the single most important thing in landing an overseas contract is contacts, and that is something you can only get by being in the expat circle, or having friends who can recommend you.

I started my expat life by being sent by my company in the UK to HK, and after several years there had made enough contacts with other expats and had proven myself able to not only do the work, but to be able to stay in an expat environment that I was able to get more work.

I am lucky that my field is fairly specialised and experience counts for a lot.

I also feel many employers are loath to start an expat on his first job in case they decide they do not like the life or the country, or ccannot fit in with the expat environment. It is very different working in a country than going for a holiday. In addition many expat packages are long hours and short leave cycles allbeit for a good salary.

Agreed with everything said above. I actually have been working in Thailand now for nearly 9 years, I ended up here by "mistake"...finished one contract and waiting for the next to start and was offered a short 6 week job in Thailand, figured do the 6 weeks and have a holiday.. LOL...still here. In addtion to what has been written above, luck plays a big part in things as well...right place at the right time...

But to answer the one of the OP's questions....."what the employer couldnt get in a Thai national ?"......Technical skills yes...but more importantly as I am in a "high stress" business...the ability to function under that stress and make decisions, be very self reliant in the decision making process and not have to make decisions "by committee" as is the case with a lot of Thai managers, where loosing face is very important if a wrong decision is made etc and able to see the big picture a lot further out rather than when is the next time we are going to eat..LOL....

[thaimite]

I have been working overseas for the past 15 years, including a spell in Thailand.

To me the single most important thing in landing an overseas contract is contacts, and that is something you can only get by being in the expat circle, or having friends who can recommend you.

I started my expat life by being sent by my company in the UK to HK, and after several years there had made enough contacts with other expats and had proven myself able to not only do the work, but to be able to stay in an expat environment that I was able to get more work.

I am lucky that my field is fairly specialised and experience counts for a lot.

I also feel many employers are loath to start an expat on his first job in case they decide they do not like the life or the country, or ccannot fit in with the expat environment. It is very different working in a country than going for a holiday. In addition many expat packages are long hours and short leave cycles allbeit for a good salary.

Agreed with everything said above. I actually have been working in Thailand now for nearly 9 years, I ended up here by "mistake"...finished one contract and waiting for the next to start and was offered a short 6 week job in Thailand, figured do the 6 weeks and have a holiday.. LOL...still here. In addtion to what has been written above, luck plays a big part in things as well...right place at the right time...

But to answer the one of the OP's questions....."what the employer couldnt get in a Thai national ?"......Technical skills yes...but more importantly as I am in a "high stress" business...the ability to function under that stress and make decisions, be very self reliant in the decision making process and not have to make decisions "by committee" as is the case with a lot of Thai managers, where loosing face is very important if a wrong decision is made etc and able to see the big picture a lot further out rather than when is the next time we are going to eat..LOL....

I agree. The ability to make decisions and take calculated risks when necessary is one of the skills that make expats unique in this and many parts of the world. But again to take an unknown person on for that purpose is a risk that reuiqres a recomednation or a knowldeg of the candidate

[GuestHouse]

Assigned to Thailand from overseas Multinational.

Skill set that sells in Thailand:

• Specialist Technical Skill Set
  
• Willing to share Specialist Technical Skill Set with local Thai Employees
  
• Not interested in denigrating Thai colleagues in order to justify own post - More interested in developing skills of local staff to provide self reliance in line with Employer's policy of developing local skills / expertise.
  

Observation: - I've never ever met an expat in Thailand who talks about "what Thais can't do" who I personally would hire onto my team.

Edited January 20, 2010 by GuestHouse

[SirSpike]

Wow thanks for the very detailed and informative posts which have put a lot of thoughts into my head and I'm sure many others who have been following.

On that note would you say it takes a certain personality to adapt to an expat lifestyle? Does it help not to have too many ties to your country of origin?

Guesthouse I'd definately agree with your observation as it certainly puts potential Thai colleagues in a negative light, I simply worded the query like that after reading a number of resources on line.   

[thaimite]

I certainly would not put the Thai's or most other nationalities down. It is just a fact of life they need help and training with things like planning and many do not take well to being responsible for making difficult decisions. This trait is not restricted to Asia either.

These are generalisations and I have worked with many excellent people from many countries, and their technical skills are vastly underestimated. Generally the expats I have worked with in a technical role are there to guide and advise to the benefit of all.

At the end of the day, expats generally get a good salary because they can contribute something to that is not available locally and usually that is in a senior role where our experience can contribute to the project

[ericthai]

I believe most professionals have been transfered to Thailand from their home country.

Most teachers moved here on their own. This is not a fact just from my own obsevation.

For myself I worked as an engineer for a US company were we handled projects worldwide. I was mainly working in Asia (Philippines, Thailand, Taiwan, Korea etc) after about 5 years coming to Thailand I decided to mover here on my own.

I worked as an independent consultant for several years. The problem is it's not steady work. Like stated you need luck and good contacts to know what projects are going on and to get in on them. I finally strated my own company a few years ago and got lucky and doing great. Cant even keep up with demand. I agree that a company is going to be weary of hiring someone who has not lived or worked overseas. I hired one guy and he only lasted 2 months, last time i did that.

hope this helps.. Good luck!!!

[Microwave]

I was fortunate to have lived in Thailand as a child and learned how to speak, read and write fluent Thai at an early age. Being fluent in Thai has been a huge asset for me. I also have an MBA, so my pedigree is good.

Being in the right place at the right time i.e. luck does play a part, but I also believe that a person creates their own opportunity. I recently returned to Thailand for my 3rd job with a large USA multinational (not the same multinational as my previous 2 employers). I was hired in Hong Kong for my first Thai job and sent to Thailand, hired in the USA and sent to Thailand for my 2nd job, and was hired in the USA and sent to Thailand for my current position. I would not have been considered for any of these positions if I hadn't had my degrees as well as my knowledge of Thailand and being able to speak, read and write fluent Thai.

Expat jobs with multinationals pay well, but the positions have been extremely demanding (at least that's been my experience). Companies have had the attitude that they own me! Expat jobs often don't last more than a few years due to the high salaries relative to Thai salaries and also due to the multinational food chain i.e. large multinationals often being gobbled up by even larger multinationals with the result being that higher-paid expats getting cut (again, just my experience). Thais are generally perceived as accepting much lower salaries than a farang would (not always true but this is the common perception), so localization has been happening for decades now and has only accelerated with the current global economic downturn.

My current position is the only job I've had in Thailand which is a regional position i.e. responsibilities throughout Asia but based in Bangkok. My prior 2 positions were based in Bangkok and I was responsible for Thailand only. Again, my being fluent in Thai, my having lived in Thailand for a number of years and respecting/blending well with the Thais, as well as my professional work experience and education helped alot in my being hired. Have a sense of humour helps as well, laughter & smiles break down barriers in almost any culture but especially so in Thailand.

The farangs I've known who have done best in Thailand tend to be level-headed types who don't look down on the Thais (or any other nationality) and who don't feel any great connection to their home countries. All of these attributes definitely pertain to Yours Truly! I often feel out of place in the USA whereas Thailand feels more like home to me.

So my cultural and linguistic experience in Thailand, my formal education, my ongoing professional experience as well as my adaptable/flexible attitude in terms of location have all been attributes which have served me well.

Keep in mind that most multinationals nowadays, regardless of country of origin, are focused almost exclusively on developing their biz. in China. For most large companies, China's the only game in town when it comes to Asia. Having lived and worked in China, I definitely prefer Thailand to China. The bureaucrats in China are constantly changing laws and much more tea money is needed to do biz. in China than in Thailand. Such was my experience, and my Mandarin is good enough to know what's going on. My point is that companies aren't looking to expand in Thailand, so the possible expat jobs are much smaller in number than before the 1997 Asian Financial Crisis which started in good 'ole Krungthepmahanakorn! Don't let this info. deter you in your search, just be aware of the realities.

Hope this helps and best of luck!

Edited January 21, 2010 by Microwave

[PattayaParent]

"On a side note are the majority of expats employed in Thailand sent there through the company they worked for in another country or have people explicitly been employed and sent to Bangkok, or found work directly within Bangkok before moving."

What about those that have come here and then found a job while here?

Myself for example, in previous jobs. (Current job I've been sent by a foreign employer from their Head Office)

[midasthailand]

Initially I was given language training by the Australian military to take up a position in the Australian Embassy in Bangkok in the mid-nineties. I developed a love of Thailand and my language skills improved exponentially during the three years I spent at the Embassy. I subsequently had 5 months in East Timor as the liaison officer between INTERFET and the Royal Thai Army, this period polished my Thai skills immensely as I was 1 foreigner with 1,600 Thai army.

On retirement from the military in 2004 (after 36 years), I decided to move to Thailand to find work. Using my excellent Thai language skills and my management experience in the military (weapons electronics officer) as well as my knowledge in the OHS&E field I was easily able to find (legal) work. Now several years (and jobs) down the track I am Assistant Managing Director of BARTER Marine.

I agree with earlier posters that for those seeking work independently in Thailand, a unique skill set is helpful as is a good working knowledge of the Thai language. Whilst they will not admit it, a native English speaker in management of a company wishing to expand internationally is a very useful addition to the team.

Good luck in your endeavours!

[ExpatJ]

In addition to multi national companies - you might also want to consider the Asian Development Bank, World Bank, international NGOs, UN...they all have excellent expat packages (though international NGOs will be considerably less than the banks/UN). But these would need specialist experience, skills.

One thing i have noticed (warning: sweeping generalization coming up) is that the better paid an expat is the more favourable their opinion is of Thai's and Thailand. But that is probably to be expected- traveling around bangkok with your car and driver, to your high rise condo and going to good restaurants probably is easier to deal with than getting by on a teachers salary.

I have experienced both in Thailand- 2 years as a volunteer years ago living on a thai government wage and more recently as an expat. I enjoyed/enjoying both 'styles' in their own ways.

[thaimite]

"On a side note are the majority of expats employed in Thailand sent there through the company they worked for in another country or have people explicitly been employed and sent to Bangkok, or found work directly within Bangkok before moving."

What about those that have come here and then found a job while here?

Myself for example, in previous jobs. (Current job I've been sent by a foreign employer from their Head Office)

I do not work for a compnay as such but do contract work.

All of my expats contracts have been outside Thailand, except one. For this (Suvarnabhumi) I was unable to get an expat salary as Thailand was considered my home base (which it is). Having said that I was paid at the top oned of the local rate for the postion and found the experience interesting and rewarding. As a result of that I was able to meet several good Thai engineers whom in turn I was able to help obtain expat positions in the middle east on my next project.

In the engineering field I would think it is generally the case that you are either recruited from abroad or sent by your company, but this may well be different for other disiplines such as teachers etc.

[PattayaParent]

^in the jobs that I've found in-country I've received an expat salary, medical cover and company car (or allowance) but no airfare allocations or housing.

[Soutpeel]

^in the jobs that I've found in-country I've received an expat salary, medical cover and company car (or allowance) but no airfare allocations or housing.

Same same....in my case whether I get the housing allowing is dependent where I am located for a particular part of the work.

My normal work location is offshore, but if I have to spend extended amounts of time in the office in BKK, I get a housing/subsistance allowance for the duration.

Airfares for me is bit of a funny one...I am entitled to it once a year, but seeing as I am based here and consider Thailand my home, I dont take it (maybe I should)......but am "compensated" for this in other ways...

[SirSpike]

thank you all for the fantastically written, detailed responses, I appreciate all the effort everyone has put in to answering the queries I have raised and has definately educated and motivated me to become an expat.

So i've got quite a bit of research to do and need to begin networking, i've spoken to a couple of recruitment agencies within bangkok and received similar advice in the fact that networking is key, I can make a start by contacting people online - anyone on LinkedIN? but i'm guessing my best bet is to pack a case and get out to BKK for a month or 2 and try talking to people face to face. Maybe also get my head into some Thai books, for those of you who are expats how good is your thai? any suggestions on the best learning methods?

Best wishes.

[thaimite]

You will find many expats on Linkedin and it is a good way of meeting people and staying in touch as we travel the world from project to project.

Would you like to tell us what your area of expertise is or provide a link to your linkedin profile.

Edited January 21, 2010 by thaimite

[SirSpike]

Apologies for the slower than usual response to thaimite's question.

My area of expertise is IT. I currently focus on the debugging, optimisation and introduction of new features to large legacy application suites to international insurers. I'm also involved with providing datafixes within SQL Server and Oracle db systems.

I understand this is probably a highly sought out area and competitive area at the moment particularly within Thailand but I understand there are still jobs in the IT industry for expats in Singapore and possibly Hong Kong.

I'm not sure if I am allowed to post links but if anyone has any advice or could introduce me to any helpful people via linkedIN as thaimite has suggested then the link is here http://uk.linkedin.com/in/owaindavies