hgvneil Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Just heard that my wifes sisters son has done something real stupid. Ive met him loads of times and was always shy quiet,not in any gangs and after left school was working with his father. This young man was never in any trouble and i was surprised as he seemed a straight enough lad.Anyway when he was back in his village staying with his mum,the local village idiot picks a fight and starts smashing his motorbike while he was in a shop,he came outside and got into a fight and got a right kicking of this <deleted> ( who was carrying a knife l ).Got a chair smashed over his head. It got broke up any they both retreated,well next nursing his wounds calls the village idiot back for a rematch,if hes man enough,and the guy returns,but my wifes nephew has some back up,3 mates ,and they jump the guy and the guy is killed.Nephew and one other friend are nicked for the fatal blows. Now i know what they did was wrong and should be punished,they are locked up as i write this,but the local village police say to my wifes sister(his mum) that she needs a lawyer and maybe he can get his sentance reduced. He has already been moved to the provincial capital jail so i dont think its buy your way out of jail issue,we are waiting info from Thailand to hear if he has a court date. Does anyone know lawyers ,procedures ,that this lad can take,as far as i can gather from mrs,is the police are not asking for the money ,they just advising her to get a lawyer to help him. Thanks.NEIL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
way2muchcoffee Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 (edited) If this is true it makes your sister-in-law's son a murderer. Bad decisions and huge consequences. One can only hope for a bit of leniency from the court at sentencing given that he is young, has been in no trouble, etc. Tough situation really. A good lawyer will be very expensive. I feel for you and your position. It is difficult. It's family. You have money. You'll at least be expected to contribute, unless your wife's family is wealthy. And in fact you do have some responsibility to do what you can to help, within reason. But the boy did wrong, very wrong. In any Western court he'd face a pretty stiff sentence regardless of any mitigating circumstances. Good luck. Be supportive as much as you can. Edited January 22, 2010 by way2muchcoffee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hgvneil Posted January 22, 2010 Author Share Posted January 22, 2010 If this is true it makes your sister-in-law's son a murderer. Bad decisions and huge consequences. One can only hope for a bit of leniency from the court at sentencing given that he is young, has been in no trouble, etc. Tough situation really. A good lawyer will be very expensive. I feel for you and your position. It is difficult. It's family. You have money. You'll at least be expected to contribute, unless your wife's family is wealthy. And in fact you do have some responsibility to do what you can to help, within reason. But the boy did wrong, very wrong. In any Western court he'd face a pretty stiff sentence regardless of any mitigating circumstances. Good luck. Be supportive as much as you can. Yes your quite right,he is a murderer,and as i said he should do time inside,it was the local police advice to get the lawyer so maybe they know the lads history and think its worth trying to get some leniency.Wife and i both working in uk,so yeah we will be expected to contribute and you guessed it,they are not wealthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonywebster Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 deserves everything he gets in my opinion, of course most people want revenge but knowing he would get another whipping he took along 3 mates and murdered a guy. He can not even claim self defence in this issue, it was a premeditated attack so I would imagine manslaughter would be out also. As for lawyers in Thailand, good luck finding one with the lads interest at heart, the majority serve themselves and not the client Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunder30101 Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Sorry but good kids dont murder others, He went back for a second round ? Ummm thats called premeditated murder. Save your money, unless you feel it is your obligation to pay compensation for this loss of life because thats what your money will be for not a lessor sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
way2muchcoffee Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 hgvneil Someone will be along after a while with more information and recommendations regarding a lawyer. Try to provide a little more information so people can help, specifically, what province/ampur the boy is in. Breathe deep. Life seems to go like this. Unpredictable. Unfortunate. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEENTHEREDONETHAT Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I would have more sympathy for him if he had just gotten into a fight and ended up killing the guy. But bringing three friends is inexcusable in my mind. How can that be defended? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hgvneil Posted January 22, 2010 Author Share Posted January 22, 2010 Chaiyaphum province,i fully expect the hang em, high brigade,its hard to defend the guy,from the rough details i got it was revenge attack.Why the f@#$ cant thais sort their beef out man 2 man,instead all this outnumbered gang up sh#t.Childs play.!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nio Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 In the Thai Court system leniency is usually granted only by an admission of guilt to the court A lawyer is not going to do much unless you have a ton of money for the lawyer to prove not guilty. Going back with 3 friends to beat up a guy because you got beat up, does not sound to me like the shy, quiet kid type to me? Maybe there is some history there you are not aware of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hgvneil Posted January 22, 2010 Author Share Posted January 22, 2010 In the Thai Court system leniency is usually granted only by an admission of guilt to the courtA lawyer is not going to do much unless you have a ton of money for the lawyer to prove not guilty. Going back with 3 friends to beat up a guy because you got beat up, does not sound to me like the shy, quiet kid type to me? Maybe there is some history there you are not aware of You maybe right,we havent been there for nearly a year,all i know is that i have never heard of this lad being in ANY trouble and i would of heard if he had.I think we need to find out what hes been up to recently,but that aint going to help him now.If there is no case to answer and he is guilty,apart from pleading guilty can a lawyer help him at all.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daewoo Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I really wish the members on here would keep their opinions to themselves and stop pre-judging... I hardly think it is helping the OP... It isn't premediated murder... his intention wasn't to murder, he didn't plan to murder... he planned to get his mates together and give the guy a good arse kicking... in typical Thai way, that didn't stop at the point where it would be expected to in the west, and the guy died... maybe we can stick to the OP's request... does anyone know a lawyer who can help??? or have any insight into the Thai judicial system... is there a concept of pleeing to a lesser charge like manslaughter??? Neil, I can imagine how upsetting this must be for your wife and her family... I hope you can get a satisfactory resolution... I wish I could help... Cheers, Daewoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThailandTommy Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 My wife comes from Chaiyaphum, I have just asked her if she knows a reliable trust worthy local solicitor, although her family have in the past used a local solicitor (for conveyancing) she would not recommend him as he ripped her family off! She said that Thai solicitors are a total waste of time and in general are not to be trusted to act in your best interests. There may also be an issue with compensation (money being # 1 in Thailand), if his co-defendants are represented it may be an option to use one of their solicitors that may prove to be cheaper but again a lot will depend on the ability and effectiveness of the solicitor. I personally have never had the need to use a solicitor for anything other than property purchase, I am sorry to say that I have never heard anything good said about them, unless you are paying big money for a well connected Bangkok brief. In my opinion if what they have told you is the whole truth? (In these circumstances many people tend to have selective memory of the events!), if the kid and the parents or close family member have a reasonable education it wouldn't do any harm to visit him with a note pad and write down exactly what happened and the events that led up to the initial attack out side the shop, most people do not just attack someone for absolutely no good reason, there may be something that promoted the attack. For good measure he should sign, date and time anything that may be put before any subsequent court hearing, and anyone present should witness it. Once they have written everything down (it might take more than one visit), care should be taken to ensure it does not conflict with any statement he has already 'voluntarily' given to the arresting/investigating officers, they can either give it to a solicitor who could read it out in court or they could read it themselves, basically that is all you would be paying a solicitor to do. Bear in mind that although the victim is unable to defend himself or give his side of the events witnesses may have come forward and supplied statements to police with a view to testify on his behalf on the events that led to the altercation. The bottom line is he was the instigator of a group of men who premeditated an attack on another, their intention may not have been to kill that person but their combined actions resulted in his death actions that cannot be condoned. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimdog Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 If there is no case to answer and he is guilty,apart from pleading guilty can a lawyer help him at all.. Simple answer... YES There are many different charges your nephew can be facing: Section 288 Whoever, murdering the other person, shall be imprisoned by death or imprisoned as from fifteen years to twenty years. Normally this charge would be used if a dangerous weapon such as a knife or gun was used Section 289 Whoever commits murder on: (4) The other person by premeditation, shall be punished with death. Normally this charge would be used if any form of weapon was purposely brought to the scene. There are a total of 6 other reasons to be charged under section 289, and other ways to determine premeditation but none would be applicable to you nephew. Section 290 Whoever, causes death to the other person by inflicting injury upon the body of such person without intent to cause death, shall be punished with imprisonment of three to fifteen years. Normally this would be used in the case such as a brawl where someone died and would be the most likely charge that your nephew would face. With such a large difference between the upper and lower punishments, a good lawyer could make a considerable difference. Obviously your nephew will be encouraged to plead guilty, as this will result in whatever sentence is imposed being reduced, sometimes by as much as 50% if he fully cooperates. Hope of some help... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonthai Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 going to the victims family with 100-200k to drop the charges might be a solution, the sum split between the 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharecropper Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 (edited) In Thai law is there an equivalent charge of manslaughter where the intent to kill is not there, but a lesser intent to cause harm was, from which the victim dies anyway? Or does all killing with deliberate force amount to murder? If it is only murder he can be charged with, given how poor Thai lawyers are generally in the courtroom (I suspect up-country especially) and if it is correct that the only mitigation to a charge of murder is to plead guilty, you may want to save your money and get him to plead. But doesn't paying compensation to the victim's family also assist in cases such as this? Can't they get the charges dropped if satisfied with compensation (rightly or wrongly). EDIT - Just saw Slimdog's excellent reply answering the murder/manslaughter. Edited January 22, 2010 by sharecropper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAWP Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Going back with 3 friends to beat up a guy because you got beat up, does not sound to me like the shy, quiet kid type to me? Yes, it does, a street-tough kid would have taken the man out himself, a shy/non-fighting kid might bring friends to have a chance and avoid getting killed themselves. What really matters is how the man died, as with some 'bad luck' it is possible to kill someone with very few hits, or you might end up fighting to long and not suffer any permanent damages at all...which is very hard to 'plan'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzaa09 Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I really wish the members on here would keep their opinions to themselves and stop pre-judging... I hardly think it is helping the OP...It isn't premediated murder... his intention wasn't to murder, he didn't plan to murder... he planned to get his mates together and give the guy a good arse kicking... in typical Thai way, that didn't stop at the point where it would be expected to in the west, and the guy died... As to misjudging and predispositions, seems to me that the intentions of the nephew {and company} was very premeditated, whether death was a result or not. One could easily debate legalities and semantics as to the pre-engaged intentions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuestHouse Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I don't know about the nephew needing a lawyer but I reckon the OP here needs a ticket out of here and immediate advice on how to lock his own money up to put it out of reach of his own inlaws and the family of the victim. My advice: Put distance between you and the immediate family of the murderer Put distance between you and the family of the victim Don't even so much as give a whiff of a Falang in the background to the police who are investigating this murder Take an extended holiday back in the old country while the Thais sort this out the Thai way - witgh their money, not yours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davyboy Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I don't know about the nephew needing a lawyer but I reckon the OP here needs a ticket out of here and immediate advice on how to lock his own money up to put it out of reach of his own inlaws and the family of the victim.My advice: Put distance between you and the immediate family of the murderer Put distance between you and the family of the victim Don't even so much as give a whiff of a Falang in the background to the police who are investigating this murder Take an extended holiday back in the old country while the Thais sort this out the Thai way - witgh their money, not yours Good advice Guest House, and I believe the only advice the OP should take!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabum Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Guesthouse has it dead on and any other considerations are completely foolish. This is how most murders are committed in Thailand, not premeditated, simply NOT THINKING and acting on childish emotions and going to far... as usual. The boy and all cases like this need to be punished severely and the case needs to be advertised, Thais need to learn that getting revenge with violence often leads to murder and ruins your life, it simply is not worth it... why do they not teach this? Embarrassed and angry now should not cause you to seek to destroy your own life, makes no sense. Yet these stories are a daily event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrry Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I think that any money spent for a lawyer may be better used in providing continuing food and money to help make his next 20 years more comfortable. I kow tat a thai familily would contribute wat they could for the lawyer and the expectation will be strong but continuing support is more needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hgvneil Posted January 22, 2010 Author Share Posted January 22, 2010 Thanks for all replies,the mrs and i are well out the way,we been in uk for a year since last visit there.She will be speaking to her sister this weekend,i will pass on some of the suggestions .I dont think throwing money at some dodgy lawyer will help one bit,the idea about compensation is good.Bujt im not sure how that will go down as the wifes sister went to the guys funeral and was nearly attacked.They said they would kill him when he gets out,but obviously still so angry at funeral. Maybe any money will be better spent giving him decent food to eat inside. It looks even worse because a stick was used by the nephew so this could be classed as a weapon,im not defending this guy at all ,i hate the thai style of all on one,its for cowards. Anyone sensible know roughly how long he may get if he pleads guilty,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasajsc Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 (edited) going to the victims family with 100-200k to drop the charges might be a solution, the sum split between the 2 Thats terrible! Encourages thai people to view westerners are money machines, pay, pay, pay, and teaches the people involved that you can get away with murder, that there are no consequences to your actions, as long as there is a westerner with some $. Shameful. You should know better, being from London. Edited January 22, 2010 by nasajsc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharecropper Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 going to the victims family with 100-200k to drop the charges might be a solution, the sum split between the 2 Thats terrible! Encourages thai people to view westerners are money machines, pay, pay, pay, and teches the people involved that you can get away with murder, that there are no consequences to your actions, as long as their is a westerner with some $. Shameful. You should know better, being from London. You obviously don't realise that this is the THAI way of dealing with this kind of case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasajsc Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I don't know about the nephew needing a lawyer but I reckon the OP here needs a ticket out of here and immediate advice on how to lock his own money up to put it out of reach of his own inlaws and the family of the victim.My advice: Put distance between you and the immediate family of the murderer Put distance between you and the family of the victim Don't even so much as give a whiff of a Falang in the background to the police who are investigating this murder Take an extended holiday back in the old country while the Thais sort this out the Thai way - witgh their money, not yours Good advice Guest House, and I believe the only advice the OP should take!! agreed, dont let them smell falang anywhere, if its not too late already, once they smell falang, everyone will expect you to pay - someone else's problems and issues will become yours and consume your life and your $$$. he did the crime, let him serve the time, nothing to do with you! my wife has several brothers and sisters, they all have 2 or 3 kids each - what, every time one of them does something stupid i have to work my ass off or sell my car to pay for them to get out of jail - with 10+ teenagers in the extended family, why is it my issue to pay for them and bail them out??? if i get arrested for driving and killing a motorcyclist or pedestrian, will they pay for me to get out of jail? will any thai family member pay for a falang to get out of jail? i really dont think so.... get away as far as you can, and let them deal with it themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasajsc Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 going to the victims family with 100-200k to drop the charges might be a solution, the sum split between the 2 Thats terrible! Encourages thai people to view westerners are money machines, pay, pay, pay, and teches the people involved that you can get away with murder, that there are no consequences to your actions, as long as their is a westerner with some $. Shameful. You should know better, being from London. You obviously don't realise that this is the THAI way of dealing with this kind of case. i do realise its the THAI way, so let the thais deal with it, and keep the falang and his $$$ out of it, why is it that when a falang is involved, there is always the expectation of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ ? dont you want these people to improve? dont you want them to realise there is ANOTHER way apart from the thai way - i believe all people of all nations can learn to do things in a better way, why encourage them to use the thai way if its not the best way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonthai Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 farang or no farang involved in the process, in my opinion it's a better way than sending somebody for life (as in europe) or frying on a chair (as in the usa). there are different ways - paying the victim's family, paying the lawyer or not paying the lawyer. By paying you get free or shorter sentence, by not paying you might get injection or life sentence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasajsc Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 farang or no farang involved in the process, in my opinion it's a better way than sending somebody for life (as in europe) or frying on a chair (as in the usa).there are different ways - paying the victim's family, paying the lawyer or not paying the lawyer. By paying you get free or shorter sentence, by not paying you might get injection or life sentence Fair enough, but you are looking at it from one side - what if your son was brutally murdered, or your mother was attacked and beaten to death in her bed - would you accept 100,000 baht compensation for their life, and let the offender enjoy a minimum sentence? and be out to enjoy life while you live with the memories? To add injury to insult, would you feel better knowing that the murderer did not even have to work for the money, and it was given to him by a wealthy uncle? what lesson is that sending to him, an to other youths in the village/town/city? If you have a falang or someone with some $ in the family, go ahead and beat the crap of someone, kill them, and get out of jail easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonthai Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 yes, I would Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasajsc Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 yes, I would so your children's life is worth $3500 ?? pathetic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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