Uk Lottery

[lorddaverichards]

Since I have been living in Thailand I have occasionaly done the UK lottery on Line - when there has been a rollover etc just - have never won more than a tenner but then maybe a few months pass before I have another go.

Recently a message has appeared after I played last week stating :

If you are not physically in the UK or Isle of Man, or in a country where it is not lawful to play the UK National Lottery, you should not continue.

I am a UK citizen and have an address bank account in UK but not physically there however their website does not state which countries are lawful - I am guessing Thailand is OK as it runs its own lottery but does anyone know the correct facts

I would hate to win any big amounts only to find out that the win is null and void - no point playing

Anyone know the answer to my enquiry / many thanks

DR

[true blue]

i have a go myself, if i win big one have 6 mths to claim leaving on a jet plane quick.

[jpolten]

Remember reading a thread on this before......lottery rules say you must be in the UK,but i know some people who play abroad and win small

amounts and are paid these amounts...but if you win big its very possible they could refuse to pay because you were not in the Uk when you purchased the ticket

[TEFLMike]

Individual Port Addresses, if you purchase the Lotto tickets online, will give them information as to your current location.

[barrella]

Would it not make more sense for the National lottery to block you from buying your ticket if you can not claim your winnings due to your being in another country. If they can see you location from your IP address then just block the purchase.

I would say it is more of a, "we have to say this to cover our selves" rather than, "If you bought the ticket in a country you can not gamble in we will not pay out".

I think if I won the lottery from a ticket I bought online whist in Bangkok and they refused to pay me my winnings, I think the money I make of the media frenzy and The Sun interviews plus day time TV appearances and the book I will write about it after would more than cover the standard Lotto Jackpot.

I would still like to get an official answer on this though.

Edited January 22, 2010 by barrella

[chiang mai]

Here's the official answer I received today, I was trying to get to this point in a thread yesterday when the thread was closed and then deleted for some odd reason!

Thank you for your email dated 22 January 2010.

To play The National Lottery interactively, a player must be a resident of the UK or Isle of Man when they register for an interactive account, and at all subsequent times when they play games through this account. Additionally, players need to be aged 16 years or over and have a UK or Isle of Man Sterling bank account. It is the players responsibility to notify Camelot of any change in their address.

In addition, local laws in other countries usually prevent the sales of lottery tickets other than those for their own state lottery. To protect players and the UK National Lottery, our rules prohibit players playing the UK National Lottery online in any country where it is unlawful to do so. As a result, we would not be able to pay out any prize on a ticket bought in such a country.

Generally, residents of the UK or Isle of Man who travel overseas from time to time will be eligible to play the UK National Lottery by Direct Debit. The Direct Debit needs to be registered in the UK or Isle of Man before travelling and it is the player’s responsibility to comply with the Game Rules and Terms and Conditions as outlined below.

All players must be aged 16 years or over and need to be a resident of the UK or Isle of Man when they register for an account and at all subsequent times when they play games through their account. Direct Debit Players must also hold a UK or Isle of Man bank (or building society) account out of which the Direct Debit shall be made. Where debit card details have been supplied, the debit card details supplied must be those of a UK or Isle of Man debit card linked to a UK or Isle of Man bank (or building society) account in respect of which the Direct Debit Player is an authorised user. It is the player’s responsibility to notify Camelot of any change in their address.

We advise players to only make amendments to their Direct Debit whilst actually located in the UK or Isle of Man, for example changing the number selections or the draws entered.

I trust this clarifies the situation for you.

Yours sincerely,

It seems to me that expats overseas can play the lottery as long as the direct debit etc is set up in the UK.

[Brigante7]

They'll happily take your stake money but are even happier to be able to withhold the prize if you win, they won't stop you buying a ticket online if you live abroad, why would they, you're giving them money.

Brigante7.

[Heng]

One of the best inventions for gov't (and underground rackets) revenue ever. Selling hope (nothing) for $1-$3+ a unit.

[happylarry]

I paid 8quid a month for four years and only ever got one tenner back. I always wondered what would happen if I ever won big but now will never know because I got fed up losing the money so I stopped and bought some premium bonds instead. Now I still have the hope of winning a million quid but without losing any stake money except a bit of interest of course. And its legal to do from Thailand.

HL

[Tonto21]

I used to play the lotto on line, set up an on-line account, played for about a year, and then I used to get the odd message telling me that I need to make sure I am eligible to play! I stopped playing, the thought of not winning, no worries, but the thought of winning and not being paid out!! Too much! Amazingly I still get e-mails telling it’s a roll-over…..Stick it up your ass!!!

[Chaimai]

It seems to me that expats overseas can play the lottery as long as the direct debit etc is set up in the UK.

Spot on, comprehensive response.

It is a risk if you ignore the 'warnings'. I spend 8 months of the year in Thailand but set up a direct debit for my weekly numbers when I was in England. A friend or relative could do it for you as well, if necessary.

[7by7]

It seems to me that expats overseas can play the lottery as long as the direct debit etc is set up in the UK.

Don't think so. From Camelot's reply to you

To play The National Lottery interactively, a player must be a resident of the UK or Isle of Man when they register for an interactive account, and at all subsequent times when they play games through this account.

(My emphasis)

So, you can play from abroad if normally resident in the UK or Isle of Man and temporarily abroad; but not if resident abroad.

[chiang mai]

It seems to me that expats overseas can play the lottery as long as the direct debit etc is set up in the UK.

Don't think so. From Camelot's reply to you

To play The National Lottery interactively, a player must be a resident of the UK or Isle of Man when they register for an interactive account, and at all subsequent times when they play games through this account.

(My emphasis)

So, you can play from abroad if normally resident in the UK or Isle of Man and temporarily abroad; but not if resident abroad.

In trying to obtain clarification from Camelot on this point I gave them a scenario whereby the player is a UK citizen who is non-resident in the UK for tax purposes and who spends two months a year in the UK and the rest of the year overseas - the player does not own UK property or assets but does have a UK bank account.

I had hoped that I might be able to get a more definitive definition from them of "resident" but clearly this is complex and I was not successful, I'm not certain that they can define it precisely since HMRC has only recently managed to do so after many years and their definition is still not written into law.

On the basis of their response however I would be prepared to back the notion that a player who sets up a direct debit in the UK, with fixed numbers to play to, (and doesn't change them whilst overseas) would indeed be entitled to claim, under the rules.

Perhaps if you see things differently you would care to give us your definition of "resident" because that is where any controversy will exist.

Edited January 23, 2010 by chiang mai

[7by7]

As can be seen from this HMRC page, the question of whether one is a UK resident is a complex one, and one can have residency in more than one country.

My personal opinion, though, is that merely having a bank account in the UK is not enough, one should also have a home in the UK and regularly spend time living there. This is based upon the returning residents rules for those with Indefinite Leave to Remain in the UK; namely that if they spend more than 2 years out of the UK they are no longer considered to be resident and lose their ILR.

But this is a personal opinion based on what I have read, I'm not a lawyer.

It will be interesting to see what happens if someone not resident in the UK wins a large amount and Camelot refuse to pay.

[personchester]

Here's the official answer I received today, I was trying to get to this point in a thread yesterday when the thread was closed and then deleted for some odd reason!

Thank you for your email dated 22 January 2010.

To play The National Lottery interactively, a player must be a resident of the UK or Isle of Man when they register for an interactive account, and at all subsequent times when they play games through this account. Additionally, players need to be aged 16 years or over and have a UK or Isle of Man Sterling bank account. It is the players responsibility to notify Camelot of any change in their address.

In addition, local laws in other countries usually prevent the sales of lottery tickets other than those for their own state lottery. To protect players and the UK National Lottery, our rules prohibit players playing the UK National Lottery online in any country where it is unlawful to do so. As a result, we would not be able to pay out any prize on a ticket bought in such a country.

Generally, residents of the UK or Isle of Man who travel overseas from time to time will be eligible to play the UK National Lottery by Direct Debit. The Direct Debit needs to be registered in the UK or Isle of Man before travelling and it is the player's responsibility to comply with the Game Rules and Terms and Conditions as outlined below.

All players must be aged 16 years or over and need to be a resident of the UK or Isle of Man when they register for an account and at all subsequent times when they play games through their account. Direct Debit Players must also hold a UK or Isle of Man bank (or building society) account out of which the Direct Debit shall be made. Where debit card details have been supplied, the debit card details supplied must be those of a UK or Isle of Man debit card linked to a UK or Isle of Man bank (or building society) account in respect of which the Direct Debit Player is an authorised user. It is the player's responsibility to notify Camelot of any change in their address.

We advise players to only make amendments to their Direct Debit whilst actually located in the UK or Isle of Man, for example changing the number selections or the draws entered.

I trust this clarifies the situation for you.

Yours sincerely,

It seems to me that expats overseas can play the lottery as long as the direct debit etc is set up in the UK.

No, according to the letter you received expats can only take part in the UK Lottery when resident in the UK or I.O.M. the direct debit payment can be used when one is abroad for short spells, on business, or holiday, and is not applicable for those living permanently abroad i.e. expats, nevertheless, there are other 'online' lotteries which are perfectly legal to use, pay by c/card, and receive winnings via your c/card.

[chiang mai]

As can be seen from this HMRC page, the question of whether one is a UK resident is a complex one, and one can have residency in more than one country.

My personal opinion, though, is that merely having a bank account in the UK is not enough, one should also have a home in the UK and regularly spend time living there. This is based upon the returning residents rules for those with Indefinite Leave to Remain in the UK; namely that if they spend more than 2 years out of the UK they are no longer considered to be resident and lose their ILR.

But this is a personal opinion based on what I have read, I'm not a lawyer.

It will be interesting to see what happens if someone not resident in the UK wins a large amount and Camelot refuse to pay.

As can be seen from (www.hmrc.gov.uk/cnr/hmrc6.pdf) HMRC sees the issue of residency in more complex terms and ownership of a home does not need to be a part of the equation, residency for ILR, tax and Camelot purposes are very different things.

[7by7]

As can be seen from (www.hmrc.gov.uk/cnr/hmrc6.pdf) HMRC sees the issue of residency in more complex terms and ownership of a home does not need to be a part of the equation

Er, I did say it was complex, so it appears we are basically in agreement; but from the HMRC link posted earlier

Will the person retain a home in the United Kingdom during their period abroad? If so, this may indicate continuing ordinary residence during the period of absence. If not, the person is less likely to remain ordinarily resident.

If the person retains a home in the United Kingdom, will it be available for their use when they return? If so, this is an indication that ordinary residence may continue. If not - for example, because it is let on a long lease - then it is less likely that the person will remain ordinarily resident.

Camelot did not give you a specific answer to your enquiry, not surprising as they wish to cover themselves, but they did say "To play The National Lottery interactively, a player must be a resident of the UK or Isle of Man when they register for an interactive account, and at all subsequent times when they play games through this account." You are quite correct when you say that different origanisations have different definitions of 'residence' and as you asked for mine, I gave it. What Camelot's definition is I don't know. Maybe you should ask them?

[chiang mai]

As can be seen from (www.hmrc.gov.uk/cnr/hmrc6.pdf) HMRC sees the issue of residency in more complex terms and ownership of a home does not need to be a part of the equation

Er, I did say it was complex, so it appears we are basically in agreement; but from the HMRC link posted earlier

Will the person retain a home in the United Kingdom during their period abroad? If so, this may indicate continuing ordinary residence during the period of absence. If not, the person is less likely to remain ordinarily resident.

If the person retains a home in the United Kingdom, will it be available for their use when they return? If so, this is an indication that ordinary residence may continue. If not - for example, because it is let on a long lease - then it is less likely that the person will remain ordinarily resident.

Camelot did not give you a specific answer to your enquiry, not surprising as they wish to cover themselves, but they did say "To play The National Lottery interactively, a player must be a resident of the UK or Isle of Man when they register for an interactive account, and at all subsequent times when they play games through this account." You are quite correct when you say that different origanisations have different definitions of 'residence' and as you asked for mine, I gave it. What Camelot's definition is I don't know. Maybe you should ask them?

Readers will no doubt interpret the evidence thus far independently and advise in due course, for my part I ere to the positive.

[dmax]

you can pay money into the uk lottery account online, as much as you want, it wouldnt matter where in the world you were living, you paid your money so they must pay you out !

[Tigs]

you can pay money into the uk lottery account online, as much as you want, it wouldnt matter where in the world you were living, you paid your money so they must pay you out !

Wrong!!

They would not pay out on a big win if you had chosen the numbers in Thailand. If you could afford it you may have a case in court but you would need top counsel at 6 grand a day to make any headway.

I had exactly the same reply as the one above, I phoned them and they are non committal, they want your stake money and they will auto pay you your 10-100 wins without doing a security check, but should you be the sole winner of the 100 Million role over, it could end in tears. The ip address will be on computer where you played from and they will not pay. I transfer money into my lottery account and get my mate to do my numbers from his laptop in the UK. I have a UK address/property and bank account. If I won, I would return, identify myself with something other than my passport, say driving licence whatever and collect my prize. Any quibbles and I would suddenly be in a syndicate with my mate who is allowed to do the numbers. Find a mate or family member and talk with them on skype whilst they log on for you and do it, then your back is covered.

[NearestTheTee]

The odds of winning the UK lottery are bad enough but with the added complication of having to try and prove you are a 'resident' it's not worth all the bother. Better off finding an alternative lottery or other form of online gambling that has no residence related restrictions.