Red-Shirts Want Military To Admit To Coup Plans

[jdinasia]

Animatic is many things, but simple-minded he is not. There is no poster who backs up their comments and assertions with facts, figures, not to mention reason and logic, more than he. The simple minded comment must have been made into the mirror perhaps.

Is this the kind of sophisticated, reasonable and logical benchmark you have in mind?

"You know, if the red shirts weren't so full of idiots, morons and psychopaths, more poeple would probably be agreeing with them. But you have folks like Jatuporn, who lies so much even his mother has given up on him, Noppadon, the man Cambodians love, Thaksin, the "leader" in exile, Seh Daeng - a mouthbreather of the first rank, and dont' forget Jakrabop, whos still out there, being dumb somewhere. I am no yellow lover - but the red shirts are easy to despise, because they look and sound like crazies. They have already lost, but now seem determined to burn the boat down, before if finishes sinking. Thailand doesn't need these people. They are not saviors of democracy. They are incompetents. The government just has to sit and watch them blow themselves up, unfortunately."

LOL

You still evade answering questions and do it through misrepresentation and lies. Please tell us about the names listed above and how they are GOOD examples of the Red movement

I say steady on old boy.That's a bit strong and anyway you seem to have missed the point of the quotation above which was to try and establish (albeit with facetious intent) the benchmark for a sophisticated contribution.Suffice it to say the bar has been set very low.

As it happens, I don't hold a banner for any of the chaps mentioned, and what on earth prompted you to think I might have?

My earlier offer still stands.If you can manage to express yourself clearly and if possible concisely and without flaming, I would be happy to try and answer any questions you might have.

So, what you are in fact saying is that those people ARE known Red leaders and you are not disputing the rather harsh labels attributed to them?

We are still waiting on your direct responses to things on the other threads not to mention the fact that the article you quoted in this thread states that Thaksin and the reds are not interested in Democracy and that laid violence at the feet of the yellows but failed to mention the reds and the fact that most of the violence in the last 4 years has come from that side.

BTW --- I resent the implication that I am 'flaming' in any sense of the word :-)

Edited January 25, 2010 by jdinasia

[jayboy]

1.So, what you are in fact saying is that those people ARE known Red leaders and you are not disputing the rather harsh labels attributed to them?

2.We are still waiting on your direct responses to things on the other threads not to mention the fact that the article you quoted in this thread states that Thaksin and the reds are not interested in Democracy and that laid violence at the feet of the yellows but failed to mention the reds and the fact that most of the violence in the last 4 years has come from that side.

3.BTW --- I resent the implication that I am 'flaming' in any sense of the word :-)

Point 1. Do you understand why I quoted the paragraph? I've explained twice already.I agree the joke is getting thin.

Point 2. Do me a favour old bean and summarise these outstanding points (clearly and concisely please) and I'll respond.Can't really be arsed to spend more time on back posts for this purpose and for such an obvious troll.

Point3. Resent it or not a flame is a flame.But don't worry I don't really mind.

[sbk]

come come boys, play nice. Don't make me get out the whip, cheers.

[hammered]

Animatic is many things, but simple-minded he is not. There is no poster who backs up their comments and assertions with facts, figures, not to mention reason and logic, more than he. The simple minded comment must have been made into the mirror perhaps.

Is this the kind of sophisticated, reasonable and logical benchmark you have in mind?

"You know, if the red shirts weren't so full of idiots, morons and psychopaths, more poeple would probably be agreeing with them. But you have folks like Jatuporn, who lies so much even his mother has given up on him, Noppadon, the man Cambodians love, Thaksin, the "leader" in exile, Seh Daeng - a mouthbreather of the first rank, and dont' forget Jakrabop, whos still out there, being dumb somewhere. I am no yellow lover - but the red shirts are easy to despise, because they look and sound like crazies. They have already lost, but now seem determined to burn the boat down, before if finishes sinking. Thailand doesn't need these people. They are not saviors of democracy. They are incompetents. The government just has to sit and watch them blow themselves up, unfortunately."

The writer forgot to mention Nattawut who had the crazy ideas of protesting at Suwannaphum airport and outside Sirirat hospital, political suicide for sure.

The reds have tried to push the Siriraj thing off the agenda. It didnt go down at all well to say the least. Guess we will see lots of announcements from Veera now both Jatuporn and Nattawut have suffered foot in mouth attacks. Jatuporns latest was demonstrating against Gen Prayuth the First Army commender as he described him. He either got the wrong man or the wrong post. A minor mistake maybe but just another in the red PR mess of recently which is somewhat surprising consdiering they were so well organized and on topic until recently. But with Jatuporns constant barrage of unprovable and increasingly ludicrous claims and what looks like an obvious libel loss impending combined with Sae Daengs bragging about things he was never ever involved in and making himself look publically like he was with Nattawuts let demonstrate at Siriraj nightmare the red PR machine has started a bit of a tailspin recently. Even the double standard stuff has begun to look like poltical posturing with Sarayud going to lose the land, a police general close to the government being charged and ministers forced to resign on allegation rather than on final conviction as per old TRT/PPP standard, and of course all those PTP and mates dudes linked to the Alpine case never had to face what Sarayud did.

While Jatuporn's role was almost palpable as the release statements however unprovable or false they were man. Nattawut was likely not meant to fall into a similar discredited standard, but remian as a heavyweight leader and spokeperson, but the hospital statement was ill thought out to say the least and has wrecked his reputation while opening the red movement up to further allegations of disloyalty.

A while back when in the lower north it was noticeable that ordinary people who had and maybe still did like Thaksin were increasingly seeing the reds or at least their perceived leaders as a kind of bad friend a favourite uncle sometimes falls in with. Their recent actions only do more to encourage that notion. Most ordinary people arent dyed in the wool reds, yellows, PTPers or Dems.

[Old Man River]

There was an excellent article in the Nation yesterday about exactly why the military are playing things this way, the alleged aim is for them to allow the battling to continue whilst they ride in on their white steeds to take over, telling the Thai citizens that it is clear that democracy will not work here and the only way forward and for peace would be for the military to run the country. let me see if I can find a link to it, nope can not find it in the online version.

Well, then a pdf scan will do - if you got the printed version!

besides look up what "alleged" actually means.... is to be taken with a pinch of....?

I have yesterday's The Nation. There is no such article.

[animatic]

Animatic is many things, but simple-minded he is not. There is no poster who backs up their comments and assertions with facts, figures, not to mention reason and logic, more than he. The simple minded comment must have been made into the mirror perhaps.

Is this the kind of sophisticated, reasonable and logical benchmark you have in mind?

"You know, if the red shirts weren't so full of idiots, morons and psychopaths, more poeple would probably be agreeing with them. But you have folks like Jatuporn, who lies so much even his mother has given up on him, Noppadon, the man Cambodians love, Thaksin, the "leader" in exile, Seh Daeng - a mouthbreather of the first rank, and dont' forget Jakrabop, whos still out there, being dumb somewhere. I am no yellow lover - but the red shirts are easy to despise, because they look and sound like crazies. They have already lost, but now seem determined to burn the boat down, before if finishes sinking. Thailand doesn't need these people. They are not saviors of democracy. They are incompetents. The government just has to sit and watch them blow themselves up, unfortunately."

Well Jayboy you are certainly not quoting me.

Nor are you misquoting or partly quoting me for a change,

a first for posts by you with my name in it this week.

[animatic]

Animatic is many things, but simple-minded he is not. There is no poster who backs up their comments and assertions with facts, figures, not to mention reason and logic, more than he. The simple minded comment must have been made into the mirror perhaps.

Is this the kind of sophisticated, reasonable and logical benchmark you have in mind?

"You know, if the red shirts weren't so full of idiots, morons and psychopaths, more poeple would probably be agreeing with them. But you have folks like Jatuporn, who lies so much even his mother has given up on him, Noppadon, the man Cambodians love, Thaksin, the "leader" in exile, Seh Daeng - a mouthbreather of the first rank, and dont' forget Jakrabop, whos still out there, being dumb somewhere. I am no yellow lover - but the red shirts are easy to despise, because they look and sound like crazies. They have already lost, but now seem determined to burn the boat down, before if finishes sinking. Thailand doesn't need these people. They are not saviors of democracy. They are incompetents. The government just has to sit and watch them blow themselves up, unfortunately."

LOL

You still evade answering questions and do it through misrepresentation and lies. Please tell us about the names listed above and how they are GOOD examples of the Red movement

You forgot Argument Ad Hominum too. One of his hit parade favorites.

[jayboy]

You forgot Argument Ad Hominum too. One of his hit parade favorites.

Please note, after ignoring the error for a long time, it should be "ad hominem".Best not use Latin phrases if you don't really understand them.

[jdinasia]

Animatic is many things, but simple-minded he is not. There is no poster who backs up their comments and assertions with facts, figures, not to mention reason and logic, more than he. The simple minded comment must have been made into the mirror perhaps.

Is this the kind of sophisticated, reasonable and logical benchmark you have in mind?

"You know, if the red shirts weren't so full of idiots, morons and psychopaths, more poeple would probably be agreeing with them. But you have folks like Jatuporn, who lies so much even his mother has given up on him, Noppadon, the man Cambodians love, Thaksin, the "leader" in exile, Seh Daeng - a mouthbreather of the first rank, and dont' forget Jakrabop, whos still out there, being dumb somewhere. I am no yellow lover - but the red shirts are easy to despise, because they look and sound like crazies. They have already lost, but now seem determined to burn the boat down, before if finishes sinking. Thailand doesn't need these people. They are not saviors of democracy. They are incompetents. The government just has to sit and watch them blow themselves up, unfortunately."

LOL

You still evade answering questions and do it through misrepresentation and lies. Please tell us about the names listed above and how they are GOOD examples of the Red movement

You forgot Argument Ad Hominum too. One of his hit parade favorites.

I am finished with him anyways, he never answer the questions put to him so it is always just one-sided. He is off in the land of the ignored .... (strangely all but one that I have placed there over the years got moved into the very special group called 'banned')

Edited January 25, 2010 by jdinasia

[jayboy]

I am finished with him anyways, he never answer the questions put to him so it is always just one-sided. He is off in the land of the ignored .... (strangely all but one that I have placed there over the years got moved into the very special group called 'banned')

Just for the record I have twice offered to answer any questions you might have if you set them out clearly.

This you are unwilling or unable to to do although quite ready to flame as you have done again in your last post.

[sbk]

I see no flame, he is saying he is ignoring you, a good idea given your penchant for sniping at each other. Now, get back to the topic at hand. now. thanks

[mca]

I am finished with him anyways, he never answer the questions put to him so it is always just one-sided. He is off in the land of the ignored .... (strangely all but one that I have placed there over the years got moved into the very special group called 'banned')

So the reasoning behind the possibility of a ban would be what exactly?

[LaoPo]

Animatic is many things, but simple-minded he is not. There is no poster who backs up their comments and assertions with facts, figures, not to mention reason and logic, more than he. The simple minded comment must have been made into the mirror perhaps.

..Nice to see you're such good friends...and that so in just a few days. Truly amazing.

Your esteemed friend supplying facts and figures ?...hmmm where and when?; I've never seen him supplying facts and figures, just his own reason and logic and nothing wrong with that but that doesn't make him stand correct just like my own reason and logic doesn't make me infallible.

Didn't I write lately: "Mirror, Mirror on the wall......." ?

Let's see how long the SomTumTiger lasts...

LaoPo

[CLOD]

The thread is titled red shirts want military to admit to coup plans,

Well that is a bit narrow to say the least.

When you consider that thailand has only had coups for the last thirty years or so I suggest it indicates that the military only ever have coup plans.

So its not only the reds who have the question in their heads, everyone in thailand always has that question in their heads.

Based upon recent military coup activity, it is on balance understandable why the reds think about it in a day more than anyone else.

The answer is very simple, have elections, and abide by democracy.

[zzaa09]

The military made it pretty clear they did not enjoy running the country

while they had the chance last time. No reason they should want to again.

They were just happy to have Thaklsin and his plunderers gone.

It's just such habit to think the army should want back in government here,

that it is always part of any calculation.

History conditions us, doesn't it?

[animatic]

You forgot Argument Ad Hominum too. One of his hit parade favorites.

Please note, after ignoring the error for a long time, it should be "ad hominem".Best not use Latin phrases if you don't really understand them.

A rose by any other name....

I see cattle prints....and smell fertilizer, hmmm.

[SomTumTiger]

I'd like thank Jayboy for spreading my quotation (from another tread mind you) all across page 2. And I'd like to thank him for not defending those men - as they are indefensible. Cheers! Glad to see I've made such a strong impression on Laopo, in such a short time.

[animatic]

The military made it pretty clear they did not enjoy running the country

while they had the chance last time. No reason they should want to again.

They were just happy to have Thaklsin and his plunderers gone.

It's just such habit to think the army should want back in government here,

that it is always part of any calculation.

History conditions us, doesn't it?

Yes too true, especially if we believe that

we can't CHANGE the future by our unified actions.

The one positive legacy for Thaksin is that he proved things can change,

but he just brought about bad changes as the proof.

He move precipitously, but he did move, and showed things CAN change a faster.

Problem is he raised expectations of continuous faster change, and sadly history shows;

faster change is also far less predictable change and their in lies it's inherent danger.

[Netfan]

As it happens, I don't hold a banner for any of the chaps mentioned, and what on earth prompted you to think I might have?

Let's say I want to support the Reds in their quest for democracy. The names most often associated with them are (in no particular order of importance) Noppadon, Seh Daeng, Jakrabop and Nattawut, Chavalit, Chalerm, Arisman, Sudarat, Jatuporn, and of course The Man himself and his family.

Can you tell me who I'm missing that I can put my faith in to lead this new democracy? As has been asked earlier in the thread, what if this crew somehow got into power? Do you forsee a Thailand that would be better off than today? Who among the Red leadership, mentioned or not, do you see as an upholder of democratic principles and fair / uncorrupted government?

Any of the Red side supporters, please speak up

Edited January 25, 2010 by Netfan

[zzaa09]

The thread is titled red shirts want military to admit to coup plans,

Well that is a bit narrow to say the least.

When you consider that thailand has only had coups for the last thirty years or so I suggest it indicates that the military only ever have coup plans.

So its not only the reds who have the question in their heads, everyone in thailand always has that question in their heads.

Based upon recent military coup activity, it is on balance understandable why the reds think about it in a day more than anyone else.

The answer is very simple, have elections, and abide by democracy.

What sort of Democracy did you have in mind?

[Old Man River]

There was an excellent article in the Nation yesterday about exactly why the military are playing things this way, the alleged aim is for them to allow the battling to continue whilst they ride in on their white steeds to take over, telling the Thai citizens that it is clear that democracy will not work here and the only way forward and for peace would be for the military to run the country. let me see if I can find a link to it, nope can not find it in the online version.

I read the opinion piece (it is in the other one) and it is no different from what Thaksin was accused of when he was PM and the yellow shirts were demonstrating. Of course then it was to be the police who were supposed to enforce the SOE that the PM was supposed to call so that they all could take over the country. As it turned out, well, you know how it turned out. I don't see this happening here just as it didn't then. But of course, I never say never.

[Fishbucket]

As it happens, I don't hold a banner for any of the chaps mentioned, and what on earth prompted you to think I might have?

Let's say I want to support the Reds in their quest for democracy. The names most often associated with them are (in no particular order of importance) Noppadon, Seh Daeng, Jakrabop and Nattawut, Chavalit, Chalerm, Arisman, Sudarat, Jatuporn, and of course The Man himself and his family. Can you tell me who I'm missing that I can put my faith in to lead this new democracy? As has been asked earlier in the thread, what if this crew somehow got into power? Do you forsee a Thailand that would be better off than today? Who among the Red leadership, mentioned or not, do you see as an upholder of democratic principles and fair / uncorrupted government? Any of the Red side supporters, please speak up

Thing is there , with a statement like that, you ,have to ask it to everybody for it to have any significance.

In other words for your question to have any real meaning, with a real answer, it has to be asked to the voters.

It isnt of any consequence what individuals think, only the summation of all individuals thaughts.

So good question, now ask it in a democratic fashion, in an election and you will get the electorate's answer.

[Netfan]

As it happens, I don't hold a banner for any of the chaps mentioned, and what on earth prompted you to think I might have?

Let's say I want to support the Reds in their quest for democracy. The names most often associated with them are (in no particular order of importance) Noppadon, Seh Daeng, Jakrabop and Nattawut, Chavalit, Chalerm, Arisman, Sudarat, Jatuporn, and of course The Man himself and his family. Can you tell me who I'm missing that I can put my faith in to lead this new democracy? As has been asked earlier in the thread, what if this crew somehow got into power? Do you forsee a Thailand that would be better off than today? Who among the Red leadership, mentioned or not, do you see as an upholder of democratic principles and fair / uncorrupted government? Any of the Red side supporters, please speak up

Thing is there , with a statement like that, you ,have to ask it to everybody for it to have any significance.

In other words for your question to have any real meaning, with a real answer, it has to be asked to the voters.

It isnt of any consequence what individuals think, only the summation of all individuals thaughts.

So good question, now ask it in a democratic fashion, in an election and you will get the electorate's answer.

But I don't want "everybody's" answer. I just want some Red supporter to tell me, so I can have some hope, of who they are basing their belief in. The belief that this group is only interested in a democratic government. Because that's the big argument, right? I'm just saying that I look at the Red side and these are the faces I see. Not exactly a bastion of freedom loving, truth telling, trustworthy equality seekers. So who am I missing that is going to step in and lead the new democratic government that people so strongly believe would walk in if an election were held. Let's say I don't give a rats @ss who wins an election, but I want to know who is going to lead the group in power- for example I look at the Dems and I see Abhisit and Korn. So....?

[Sao Jiang Mai]

Silence...

[jayboy]

Let's say I don't give a rats @ss who wins an election, but I want to know who is going to lead the group in power- for example I look at the Dems and I see Abhisit and Korn. So....?

But take away the two quite untypical ex English public schoolboys with their Oxford degrees , and who do you have on the Dems side? The usual uninspiring dross.

But of course you are right on the dearth of compelling Red leadership.Lucky for the old elite really because a dynamic and honest Red leader would turn the country upside down, perhaps even winning urban middle class support and making inroads in the South.Interesting to speculate.

[Sao Jiang Mai]

Well then aren't we lucky we have the two untypical schoolboys then? Interesting to speculate, yes, but until the reds cut the cord with Thaksin, I don't think anyone competent or honorable would want to be associated with them.

[way2muchcoffee]

Let's say I don't give a rats @ss who wins an election, but I want to know who is going to lead the group in power- for example I look at the Dems and I see Abhisit and Korn. So....?

But take away the two quite untypical ex English public schoolboys with their Oxford degrees , and who do you have on the Dems side? The usual uninspiring dross.

But of course you are right on the dearth of compelling Red leadership.Lucky for the old elite really because a dynamic and honest Red leader would turn the country upside down, perhaps even winning urban middle class support and making inroads in the South.Interesting to speculate.

Agree with every word you just said Jayboy. If the reds could rid themselves of Thaksin and find a leader with the apparent honesty, courage, and integrity as an Abhisit or Korn, and with a strong educational background, then I would most likely find myself gravitating toward their camp. It is not their ideology that I disagree with. It is their leadership, their hypocrisy, their methods, and their worship of Thaksin and his money that prevent me from supporting them.

Edited January 26, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[animatic]

Oh yes! Lets have the reds win with:

Oak Shinawatra for PM and social programs and morals advisory.

Chalerm for Security and Head of the NCCC.

Yingluck for Land Office head.

Jatuporn for Attorney General.

Noppadon for what else State Department again.

Somkid for head of Election Commision.

Somchai for... impeached elder statesman.

Jakrapob for Finance Minister and Head of Bank of Thailand

The cypher with a bow tie can be Minister of Tourism

Ok lets RUN A COUNTRY!!!!!

Oops. guess not.

[Thai at Heart]

Oh yes! Lets have the reds win with:

Oak Shinawatra for PM and social programs and morals advisory.

Chalerm for Security and Head of the NCCC.

Yingluck for Land Office head.

Jatuporn for Attorney General.

Noppadon for what else State Department again.

Somkid for head of Election Commision.

Somchai for... impeached elder statesman.

Jakrapob for Finance Minister and Head of Bank of Thailand

The cypher with a bow tie can be Minister of Tourism

Ok lets RUN A COUNTRY!!!!!

Oops. guess not.

How low can a country go? Without 2 Etonian/Oxbridge products, who exactly does this country have of any quality who want to serve the nation?

In fact it does beg the question how many of any of them are actually educated in Thailand. Out of the current bunch, on either side, how many are under 50 and perceived as being of any use at all and homegrown?

Thailand, the land of useless dinosaur politicians; often hunted, but very skilled at avoiding the fatal bullet.

Maybe someone should just colonise the place to save it from itself.

Edited January 26, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[animatic]

They would need to pull in the real thinkers who are outsiders.

Devakula and Tej B. again IF they will join a post coup redux of TRT II

and Somkid is viable, but not legal I don't believe.

So truly not many respected AND respectable choices on this side.

It's a crooked road we weave when first we practice to deceive,

and when the time comes for a return trip the road signs are turned against you too.