Thailand May Face Labour Shortage Before Five Years

[moskito]

When labour is scarce, wages increase. For those proponents of free markets and capitalism, this must be accepted. Increased wages may encourage some inflation, but it improves the standard of living for everyone. It is time some employers reconsidered their profit margins and adapted accordingly.

Geriatrickid, you are right here like often, but if the employer have to pay higher wages, he/she have to put it on the bill for the guest/customer, problem here is atm that guests dont spent so much anymore, not even in holidays. Nobody can work for free, not even the people which own a restaurant. In our case its a small Thairestaurant with some western food and trust me, we dont make more money a month like we did if we go work for somebody in a restaurant. We really will be happy if we can pay wages around 15-20k a month for an employee, but will our customers pay 80 instead of 40 Baht for a fried rice in future?

[PeaceBlondie]

We had our house built by hard-working, semi-skilled local laborers. They're back, building an addition. But they're Thai-Chinese, except the Shan from Mae Hong Son. And they're booked a month or two in advance.

[LaoPo]

.

As for manufacturing jobs, which relates to the OP, Thai and Chinese-Thai bosses are as petty as they can possibly be. If they can get away with paying an average 5 baht per hour for an 84 hour week, then they'll do it. That's the type of wages that interned workers get for essentially living in restaurants and/or massage parlors and being on call 12 hours per day, 7 days per week. Interns out of college get even less - they don't even get their meals covered by the corporations for whom they're working for free. The stinginess of Asian bosses knows no bounds.

Are you saying that these interns get paid Baht 60/day for 12 hours, 24/7 without getting their meals covered ?

I'm not saying I don't believe you but this sounds extreme, doesn't it? That's far below the poverty line.

LaoPo

[ozzieovaseas]

I find it funny when farang (so called) business owners get on here and blame the thai staff for their floundering businesses.

Easy to brand the staff lazy and thieves instead of looking at your own business management skills. hey?

Is it not your good selves who choose the staff?

If ALL the Thai females you have employed are dishonest and untrustworthy then maybe you should look at your own recruitment priorities and people person skills...

Do you recruit on the basis of merit as a competent worker with experience and skills relevent to the job? (waitressing ONLY)

Do you take note of any projected signs of morals or keenness to work?...

Maybe you are using some of thai ways you openly criticise by only picking the person who looks "nicest" to farang eyes?

And no-one says you HAVE TO employ Thai staff. Why not downgrade to a businnes that just you and your wife can run comfortably?

no no NO..that would mean less profit and not being able to ride on the back of cheap labour to do all the dirty work.

Funny to see these guys saying they'd be prepared to pay higher wages for good staff but its these same people who would NEVER dare employ a farang in LOS or have a business in THEIR OWN country...where they wouldnt be able to bung it over the typical western worker

THEN they cry poor and say its not greed but in the next breath they say they will get CHEAPER Burmese workers

thats not exploitation..OH no no NO

With the attitude of some of these guys its no wonder thais make it hard for a farang to have business.

PS, The reason i say "so called" owners is because we all know who really OWNS the business

[robblok]

Time to import Mermyer workers. I am sure they have no problem in coming over here to work for even less money

and at least the people from Myanmar WORK. Thais are lazy (except CHINESE-Thai) atm we are looking for a waitress since month! All the other ones are gone after they learned it is easier to spead their legs and make easy money on a bar somewhere in Phuket. Why work for 10k a month and 10h a day, if they make the same money with 1 farang a week?

NO MORE THAI WORKERS in my shop, I go for a woman with some proud from Myanmar, before I make the same experience with Thai-LADIES over and over again!

Totally agree with you moskito.I have never come across a lazier race of people.No ambition at all.

Trying to get them to duel task i.e do any small task and talk at the same time is a no no.

Except if it's talking on the telephone and watching TV at the same time.

I believe Don had the same trouble trying to staff his business maybe one of the reason's he's had enough and sold up.

I see a lot of hardworking Thais, my gf is a guide and works her ass off and makes long hours. So do her friends and what about the taxi drivers who pull 12 hour shifts ?. The lady who has a small restaurant here who works there during the day and at night sews clothes is hardworking too. Sure there are lazy Thais.. maybe more in the tourist area.. but come on there are loads of fat lazy farangs too.

[ozzieovaseas]

.

As for manufacturing jobs, which relates to the OP, Thai and Chinese-Thai bosses are as petty as they can possibly be. If they can get away with paying an average 5 baht per hour for an 84 hour week, then they'll do it. That's the type of wages that interned workers get for essentially living in restaurants and/or massage parlors and being on call 12 hours per day, 7 days per week. Interns out of college get even less - they don't even get their meals covered by the corporations for whom they're working for free. The stinginess of Asian bosses knows no bounds.

Are you saying that these interns get paid Baht 60/day for 12 hours, 24/7 without getting their meals covered ?

I'm not saying I don't believe you but this sounds extreme, doesn't it? That's far below the poverty line.

LaoPo

That doesnt suprise me at all in this ugly capitalist world..

Seems recessions come when 95% of the working population are bled SO dry they can no longer buy the goods the rich keep shoving down their necks...Then comes a world wide reccession where the rich simply steal the money that the poor havent even got yet

[Tejas]

'Successful birth control' measures are a good thing - particularly in the big picture of things, such as;

>>>> added pollution (each person contributes an average of 5 tons of CO2 to the atmosphere annually). Plus what's the annual tally of toxins and plastic trash each person adds to the mountains of pollution? Each new person also exacerbates deforestation and the problems of the seas.

Less workers for industrial production is far less of a problem than the toxification of this, our only planet.

There are endless numbers of willing workers from neighboring countries. The main problem with that, as far as Thailand is concerned, is that Thai bureaucracy is not at all friendly to foreigners in that regard.

The only foreigners Thailand wants to see are the rarified few who come for a week or two and spend gobs of money.

Really good post! I want to add that a labor shortage is good for workers. Why? Less competition for scarce jobs.

That pushes wages up (good for workers) and shifts power to labor.

Those who control labor (e.g., MNCs) want to warn us about the economic dangers of having fewer children.

Why? They want to maintain total control over the system and labor. They also want a global army of blind consumers.

Global economic servitude is what the large corporations--and the politicians they control--want.

And they have it now.

The environmental and economic advantages of having fewer children far exceed the alternative.

[LaoPo]

..Then comes a world wide reccession where the rich simply steal the money that the poor havent even got yet

It's closer to the truth than you realize...

But first, our governments all over the world took our tax-money and HANDED the same tax money to our Bankers...

In America's case, the administration handed the Billions and Billions of tax money to the one million people who're working in the financial industry; money that was collected by 300 million OTHER Americans.

That money was handed BECAUSE the government decided that the money had to be handed over, otherwise the Banks would fail and go under BECAUSE those same Bankers spilled and wasted their own money with worthless products.

Now, who's to be blamed...?

LaoPo

[bangon04]

Not to say "I told you so" but...

From 1975 to 2000, if I recall, Thailand had one of the world's sharpest declines in birth rates. Still declining, already below replacement rate. This has been obvious since 1990. Thailand will do nothing about this. They won't open doors for Burmese, Laos, and Khmers to come here legally.

"If the situation does not improve, the production sector, especially the industrial will have to use more advanced technology to fill the shortage of workers, she said."

Thailand may be forced to introduce competitive practices in industry instead of protectionism. This threatens the traditional Thai way. This spokeswoman is overstepping the mark....

[bangon04]

Not to say "I told you so" but...

From 1975 to 2000, if I recall, Thailand had one of the world's sharpest declines in birth rates. Still declining, already below replacement rate. This has been obvious since 1990. Thailand will do nothing about this. They won't open doors for Burmese, Laos, and Khmers to come here legally.

Might have to educate more Thai workers to cope with the new technology and working practices..

[brahmburgers]

.

As for manufacturing jobs, which relates to the OP, Thai and Chinese-Thai bosses are as petty as they can possibly be. If they can get away with paying an average 5 baht per hour for an 84 hour week, then they'll do it. That's the type of wages that interned workers get for essentially living in restaurants and/or massage parlors and being on call 12 hours per day, 7 days per week. Interns out of college get even less - they don't even get their meals covered by the corporations for whom they're working for free. The stinginess of Asian bosses knows no bounds.

Are you saying that these interns get paid Baht 60/day for 12 hours, 24/7 without getting their meals covered ? I'm not saying I don't believe you but this sounds extreme, doesn't it? That's far below the poverty line. LaoPo

Yes, I've spoken to they types, usually young women (early teen to mid 20's) who would be termed 'indentured servants' at best, or more realistically 'slaves.'

Though the ones I've met are rarely beaten, they're required to be on the premises all their waking hours and available for every type of chore needed to be done. The renumeration is nearly non-existant. A thief thinks, "if I can get away with it, I'll steal it." A Chinese-Thai employer thinks, "If I can get away with paying nearly nothing, I'll do it."

..Then comes a world wide reccession where the rich simply steal the money that the poor havent even got yet

It's closer to the truth than you realize...

But first, our governments all over the world took our tax-money and HANDED the same tax money to our Bankers... In America's case, the administration handed the Billions and Billions of tax money to the one million people who're working in the financial industry; money that was collected by 300 million OTHER Americans.

The US federal bail-out of Wall Street was ludicrous. Of course it wasn't only Wall Street people who were criminally greedy, blame also rests with the millions of greedy Americans who went far beyond their means. I'm an American, but have to say Uncle Sam should hang his head in shame for the bail-outs. Republicans, in particular (It was the Bush administration which initiated the hand-outs), should be chagrined. They're always talking about 'free markets', yet the moment their multi-millionaire buddies on Wall St. have to face the consequences of their terrible biz decisions, Warren Buffet and all the rest who live on other peoples' money are crying to congress to bail them out - with multi billions and quick!

[geriatrickid]

Geriatrickid, you are right here like often, but if the employer have to pay higher wages, he/she have to put it on the bill for the guest/customer, problem here is atm that guests dont spent so much anymore, not even in holidays. Nobody can work for free, not even the people which own a restaurant. In our case its a small Thairestaurant with some western food and trust me, we dont make more money a month like we did if we go work for somebody in a restaurant. We really will be happy if we can pay wages around 15-20k a month for an employee, but will our customers pay 80 instead of 40 Baht for a fried rice in future?

A reasonable criticism as it highlights the inequities a legit and fair employer faces. This is where labour laws come in to play. Not the version we see at work here, where an employer often gets nailed despite the employee being an absolute piece of sh*t, or where the Thai employer can get away with abusing the workers, depending on who he or she is buddies with. It means having a labour code that is enforced fairly and where there is a reasonable minimum wage. I expect the "libertarian" types will come in and say but hey that's how the free market works. Wrong. The free market is structured on the premise that there is integrity and some semblance of fair business practice. Countries that manage the aforementioned concept usually have efficient workers. If the government wants to address the labour problem then start with an effective labour code that puts employers on an equal footing. One cannot have competition where the odds are stacked those that are honest and decent. Workers will improve their performance if they are given an incentive to do so. However, employers cannot provide the incentive if their is some employer willing to cut corners and hire children or illegal workers at slave wages and then charge less than the employer that follows the law.

[moskito]

Why not downgrade to a businnes that just you and your wife can run comfortably?

Hmmm, may be you are not living in Thailand and have no clue, so let me explain, Farang are not allowed to do any kind of jobs which Thaipeople can do too. Hope this will answer your question. Without any staff atm and forbidden to help, my wife work

14h shifts alone.

THEN they cry poor and say its not greed but in the next breath they say they will get CHEAPER Burmese

Why one should pay less to a Burmese worker as for a Thai if they do the same job?

My heart beats left mate and I will never make a difference just because of the colour of the skin or the passport people hold, do you?

And btw, I own nothing here, not even our land, our house or our restaurant

Sorry for answering late, my internet is ToT (dead) since friday

[SomTumTiger]

The Labor Department of Thailand is the one department that actually does seem to do its job. Unless they are employing illegals, no one is getting paid less then minimum wage, in my experience. Now, minimum wage is very very low, but its more than 5 baht an hour.

[Tejas]

The labor supply problem is difficult.

Too many workers competiting for a job and power shifts to owners. That puts downward pressure on wages.

Too few workers competing for a job and power shifts to workers. That puts upward pressure on wages.

Upward pressure on wages can lead to upward pressure on the cost of goods and services.

Downward pressure on wages rarely leads to a break for consumers.

Put differently, why is it that when corporations earn huge profits the costs of goods and services tend not to decline?

Answer: GREED.

Addressing the labor supply problem via a radical reduction in population numbers is critical.

One way of compensating for such a shift is to transform the economy to one that is even more mechanized than today (fewer laborers needed).

Another way is to shift from a quantity drive economy to a quality driven economy, thus we produce fewer goods, but at a higher price (fewer laborers needed).

Another way is to do something about our energy problem. That is not so easy to understand. But energy is at the bottom of all economies.

If you change it and make it less expensive and more sustainable and localized, you end up improving the economy for the masses. Thus, they can get what they need and want with less work (no more 40 hour per week standard; fewer hours of work needed to attain the same quality of life).

[way2muchcoffee]

The Labor Department of Thailand is the one department that actually does seem to do its job. Unless they are employing illegals, no one is getting paid less then minimum wage, in my experience. Now, minimum wage is very very low, but its more than 5 baht an hour.

That's not my experience at all. Itinerant construction workers quite often get paid below minimum wage, as do agricultural laborers during harvest season. That is a huge number of people being paid below minimum wage with little recourse.

[geriatrickid]

The labor department might want to have a look at enforcing work safety rules. Workplace injuries are a major cost to both the economy and the labour force. When labour was plentiful, it didn't matter if some fellow chopped off his leg or was crushed under a load, they just replaced the worker, while the worker went back to the village to hop about on his stump. Workers Compensation boards in many countries have now clued in that safe work sites mean better work, less costs and the retention of labour. Have a look at some of the construction worksites. Unless it is a multinational, there usually are no hardhats, no safety footwear, no fencing etc. when there is no enforcement, it encourages the crap builders to cut corners, and then both the worker and the consumer suffer.

Edited January 26, 2010 by geriatrickid

[PeaceBlondie]

These ideas sound sensible - import SEA workers, enforce safety and wages standards, increase product quality, education, etc.

TIT. They won't do it within 10 or 25 years.

[brahmburgers]

The Labor Department of Thailand is the one department that actually does seem to do its job. Unless they are employing illegals, no one is getting paid less then minimum wage, in my experience. Now, minimum wage is very very low, but its more than 5 baht an hour.

That's not my experience at all. Itinerant construction workers quite often get paid below minimum wage, as do agricultural laborers during harvest season. That is a huge number of people being paid below minimum wage with little recourse.

The Labor Dept deals with perhaps 1 to 2 percent of the actual people doing the low end jobs. I don't think anyone has hard statistics on that, but if you go around (including far from Bkk) and talk to the people doing the real work, you'll find very few are affected by labor laws eminating from bureaucrats based in large buildings in Bkk.

The reality is, the vast majority of men and women doing the grunt jobs (a good portion of whom are immigrants), are completely divorced from any sorts of labor laws.

Roughly 5 baht/hr for indentured servants, is widespread, and many many Thai/Chinese bosses are essentially slave owners. There's no viable way to clean that up. It would have to rely on the bosses' sense of decency, and that won't happen until the Chinese quit decimating endangered animal species in order to try and harden their males' you-know-whats.

The labor department might want to have a look at enforcing work safety rules. Workplace injuries are a major cost to both the economy and the labour force. When labour was plentiful, it didn't matter if some fellow chopped off his leg or was crushed under a load, they just replaced the worker, while the worker went back to the village to hop about on his stump. Workers Compensation boards in many countries have now clued in that safe work sites mean better work, less costs and the retention of labour. Have a look at some of the construction worksites. Unless it is a multinational, there usually are no hardhats, no safety footwear, no fencing etc. when there is no enforcement, it encourages the crap builders to cut corners, and then both the worker and the consumer suffer.

Agreed.

[Tonto21]

The auther has obviously never run the gauntlet through a sea of orange poloed "workers" at HomePro. If 50 went missing from every store, would productivity decline? I doubt it.

Add on all the birds in Top Charoen Optical and you could have a veritable army. As for the people in Homepro, I reckon they play hide and seek all day because you definitely can never find one when you need one.

No employee shortage in the stores and shops is there. I tried to find help in the sports department in Central, Chiangmai one day about 11 am. Not a sole to be found anywhere!! After a minute I heard talking, followed the sound, and found 7 staff inside a 2 man tent, with the sip down having there lunch. Every ones entitled to a rest stop….But all at the same time? What I found odd was they chose to all cram into a two man tent! There was a 4 man tent next to it. Someone must have heard me, but, oh no! Not one came out to see if they could help, they all dived out, Very funny, looked like the end of a world record attempt. I love it, classic Thailand.