Are You A Sexpat Or Do You Ride The Backwards Morality Train?

[coolxten]

I was at a western style cafe in the touristy area where the service was OK. Nothing special. The only complaint was that I stood there for a min. as the staff did behind the counter stuff until i asked for a menu. I ordered a meal and coffee which was nothing special either. My order was 190 Baht.

After my meal I went to the counter to pay, the lady kept my 10 baht change without asking. I just stood there until she said "Yes?", and I told her I gave her 200 baht, and asked her how much my meal was. She said 190 baht and reached in the cash register and gave my change.

So i'm a bit torn. I felt that it was rude of her to do that.....Do you agree? or Should I have just smiled and went on my way? Obviously it's not about the money.

[kurushektra]

They did'nt use to do that. It's been happening for 2 yrs now.

Was the lady taking the money and serving you the owner or just a worker. Is it a farang run resto or Thai. Is it in a guesthouse area or not.

Thais generally do not tip. ( Unless that has changed)

My experience is Thais now begin to thing the farang should pay a tip. Like we owed it to them.

Seems like this lady was trying to have one over on you, a newcomer. 'Polite' restos won't do that.

Would be interested to hear from others their experience.

[coolxten]

The cafe was around the night market area. I'm pretty sure the lady wasn't the owner. The cafe was western style and would be considered farang. Everyone in the cafe was Caucasian.

[Greenside]

However you feel about tipping, the point is that it's meant to be optional (in this country at least). In New York it's taken for granted and I once had to defend my right not to tip on an occasion when the service was truly awful and the ensuing altercation spilled out onto Columbus Avenue, much to everyone's amusement.

It's not the amount, but in effect she took away your option to leave it with a "mai pen rai" so I'd have done what you did and with the same mixed feelings.

On the other hand she could simply have been trying to short change you....

[KevinHunt]

Personally, I wouldn't have been waiting around for 10 baht change.

I usually tip anyway, so probably would have left another 20 baht besides. As the former-owner of a Thai restaurant catering to mostly Thais I can say that the notion that Thais don't tip is not true. Rubbish, in fact.

As someone once said "It's not about the Principle, it's about the money".

[Bill97]

Incorrect change, tip, robbery, 10 baht, rude, torn, people taking rights of others,what Chiang Mai coming to? This kind of thing did not used to be a problem. The woman clearly should have been arrested and put in jail. Why didn't you call the police immediately?

[khundon]

In Italy, they give you a handfull of sweets if change amount is small.

[caf]

Personally, I wouldn't have been waiting around for 10 baht change.

I usually tip anyway, so probably would have left another 20 baht besides. As the former-owner of a Thai restaurant catering to mostly Thais I can say that the notion that Thais don't tip is not true. Rubbish, in fact.

As someone once said "It's not about the Principle, it's about the money".

"It's not about the Principle, it's about the money"

well done. a tommy cooper quote.

tipping 30 baht on a 190 meal? not in my experience of thais but your experience i accept could be different

tipping anyway as another poster rightly said should reflect service and be voluntary.

caf

[KevinHunt]

Incorrect change, tip, robbery, 10 baht, rude, torn, people taking rights of others,what Chiang Mai coming to? This kind of thing did not used to be a problem. The woman clearly should have been arrested and put in jail. Why didn't you call the police immediately?

That's why this forum is so popular - because of the funny posts like this. Hilarious. Well done.

[TheWalkingMan]

There was a similar thread on one of the nightlife boards a couple of years back.

A guy goes into a bar, buys a beer and waits for his 10 baht change. The thread ran for quite a bit with rantings about people being cheap charlies for saying that the waitress should have returned the change and given the customer the opportunity to tip or not.

I fall on the side of the staff being incorrect in keeping the "small change." Give the customer a chance to leave a tip and if you are in the service industry and you want to get snotty about giving 10 baht change then you need a job change.

Personal History time

When I was a tyke about 10-11 years old I had a paper route which required us carriers to collect the monthly subscription fee from the customers. At times we paperboys would go on collections with each other. I think the monthly subscription was $3.75 per month. Anyway, I accompanied one of my friends on collections and the customer handed him $4.00 and he turned to walk away... The customer piped up with... "Don't I get some change?" My friend said, "Oh sorry, I thought that was my tip."

At that young age, I understood that it is better to return the small change with the hopes of getting a tip, rather than pocketing the funds as an assumption.

TheWalkingMan

[jackr]

Should I have just smiled and went on my way?

Nope, she needs a good kick up the ass. Well done.

[zzaa09]

They did'nt use to do that. It's been happening for 2 yrs now.

Was the lady taking the money and serving you the owner or just a worker. Is it a farang run resto or Thai. Is it in a guesthouse area or not.

Thais generally do not tip. ( Unless that has changed)

My experience is Thais now begin to thing the farang should pay a tip. Like we owed it to them.

Seems like this lady was trying to have one over on you, a newcomer. 'Polite' restos won't do that.

Would be interested to hear from others their experience.

I find the introduced Western 'tipping' consciousness growing over the last couple of decades here, is quite unbecoming and destructive to the character and culture.

[Donnyboy]

Should I have just smiled and went on my way?

Nope, she needs a good kick up the ass. Well done.

nope, you should smile and walk away, then vent yr spleen here

then smile again from the ripples caused amongst fellow CMTVers who argue about principles and money,cheap charlies et al

10 baht well spent in the end

[Ulysses G.]

I find the introduced Western 'tipping' consciousness growing over the last couple of decades here, is quite unbecoming and destructive to the character and culture.

Do you save your old teabags?

[caf]

I suppose saving old teabags is rather funny. Heaven knows where he read that gem. Keeps us amused I suppose.

But the poster is correct. We are in Thailand, importing our western ways is neither clever or hospitable to the host culture

In China it would be seen as insulting.

caf

[Donnyboy]

^ although most fashionable yuppies in BKK in their designer garb would disagree

[PhilHarries]

However you feel about tipping, the point is that it's meant to be optional (in this country at least). In New York it's taken for granted and I once had to defend my right not to tip on an occasion when the service was truly awful and the ensuing altercation spilled out onto Columbus Avenue, much to everyone's amusement.

But, unless it's changed since i was last there, you get your change and then decide on the tip. Of course if you decline to tip then your service on your next visit, should you be dumb enough to go back, might be a little ragged.

In Thailand I have never, or not to my recollection, ever had a tip presumed of me. I always have been given the full change and I always leave at least the shrapnel, topped up to a minimum of 10%, as a tip in bars, cafes and restaurants unless the service was poor. The nearest I get to an assumed tip is when the waitress holds the money up and says "Tip for me?" to which I would reply "Of course".

In this particular situation I would have asked for the change then left it, no more no less, as a tip and made a mental note to avoid the place (unless it was very good food).

In China it would be seen as insulting.

Similar in Viet Nam, service is seen as being their job, but not in the tourist spots where western ideals are creeping in.

[vagabond48]

\Do you save your old teabags?

Actually I would, if I had a garden and would compose my organic waste.

[Ulysses G.]

As the former-owner of a Thai restaurant catering to mostly Thais I can say that the notion that Thais don't tip is not true. Rubbish, in fact.

There will be a lot of farangs doing their best to forget that they read this.

[Puwa]

Thais tip not only to reward good service, but to be recognized for their generosity. The transaction is only complete when the tip is received and acknowledged, and a thank you is said, with a wai. This is one reason why Thais almost never leave their tip on the table and just go home-- the exchange would be incomplete. (The other reason for not leaving money on the table should be obvious). This is also why Thai tips aren't fixed to a percentage of the bill. The size of the tip depends on how much the customer wants to pay for being recognized as generous. Dining alone, the value of recognition is lower and any tip will be small; hosting friends, the value of having one's largesse recognized is much higher, and so the tip.

If the cashier kept the 10B assuming it was a tip, that was a cultural infraction. Most Thais I know would not stand for it. If she just short-changed you or made a mistake, well that's another thing. My guess is that she just doesn't understand farang tipping culture, and figured it didn't matter.

Edited January 28, 2010 by Puwa

[Ulysses G.]

Thais tip not only to reward good service, but to be recognized for their generosity. The transaction is only complete when the tip is received and acknowledged, and a thank you is said, with a wai. This is one reason why Thais almost never leave their tip on the table and just go home-- the exchange would be incomplete. (The other reason for not leaving money on the table should be obvious). This is also why Thai tips aren't fixed to a percentage of the bill. The size of the tip depends on how much the customer wants to pay for being recognized as generous. Dining alone, the value of recognition is lower and any tip will be small; hosting friends, the value of having one's largesse recognized is much higher, and so the tip.

We are in Thailand, importing our western ways is neither clever or hospitable to the host culture

caf

Thanks Puwa.

It sounds like tipping is part of Thai culture, but just done in a different manner than we are used to.

[clinique]

They did'nt use to do that. It's been happening for 2 yrs now.

Was the lady taking the money and serving you the owner or just a worker. Is it a farang run resto or Thai. Is it in a guesthouse area or not.

Thais generally do not tip. ( Unless that has changed)

My experience is Thais now begin to thing the farang should pay a tip. Like we owed it to them.

Seems like this lady was trying to have one over on you, a newcomer. 'Polite' restos won't do that.

Would be interested to hear from others their experience.

I find the introduced Western 'tipping' consciousness growing over the last couple of decades here, is quite unbecoming and destructive to the character and culture.

Tippingin Thailand is NOT western introduced,, patronage of service workers is part of the culture..

[venturalaw]

Personally, I wouldn't have been waiting around for 10 baht change.

I usually tip anyway, so probably would have left another 20 baht besides.

By walking away. or worse, adding to the amount that she kept, you are rewarding bad behavior. Unless of course you feel it is not a problem to take what does not belong to you. In that case, perhaps you can start providing drinks on the house next time a customer frequents your establishment.

You can start with water

[rixalex]

Personally, I wouldn't have been waiting around for 10 baht change.

I think most of us would but i don't think that's the issue here.

The issue rather is whether it's right for the cashier / owner at an eating establishment to simply assume the customer wants to leave a tip.

Tipping in my opinion should be a gesture made of one's own free-will, by the customer to the staff. If the tip is taken rather than given, it's no longer a gesture but a service charge.

[Thaifan2]

Incorrect change, tip, robbery, 10 baht, rude, torn, people taking rights of others,what Chiang Mai coming to? This kind of thing did not used to be a problem. The woman clearly should have been arrested and put in jail. Why didn't you call the police immediately?

That's why this forum is so popular - because of the funny posts like this. Hilarious. Well done.

I go into your pub now and again for a pint of Guinness .( good pint by the way ) .I pay with B200 .Why am i given the B20 change on a silver tray ?

[Ulysses G.]

Soon we won't have to worry about tips. More and more establishments in Chiang Mai are making service charges mandatory, but in most of them, the workers never see the money. The poor never get a break here.

[rixalex]

Soon we won't have to worry about tips. More and more establishments in Chiang Mai are making service charges mandatory, but in most of them, the workers never see the money. The poor never get a break here.

I think it's becoming more common all over Thailand. I wouldn't mind it so much if there was a way to check that the staff are being given it. Of course there is no way to do this and the skeptic in my suspects they are not - that's why i do my best to avoid such places.

And i do likewise with places which don't include tax in their menu prices.

[caf]

As the former-owner of a Thai restaurant catering to mostly Thais I can say that the notion that Thais don't tip is not true. Rubbish, in fact.

There will be a lot of farangs doing their best to forget that they read this.

Maybe, Ulysses but many will also take note of Puma's post (20) which actually sums up the reality. Showing that sole diners tip less as no one to show off to. A tip is a voluntary gesture.

I still think Kevin's tip percentage of 30 baht on 190 baht odd. Certainly not a Thai way, and certainly giving the wrong impression if service was not good

caf

[surayu]

Personally, i always leave a tip if it was deserved, my decision will also be highly influenced by the honesty of the people i am dealing with, so if i get everything right but they cheat on the change, then no tips, easy, rewarding wrongdoers it doesn't improve things around, lets do our bits to make sure EVERYBODY is going to get a better deal next time, i am sure the people that are serving us get serviced as well sometime (don't they shop around? whatever they buy), so in the end we are making them a favour too, it can be hard, but someone has to do it....

[uptheos]

Tipping is not the 'Thai way' other than previously quoted, as a completed transaction, demonstrating generosity and gratitude finalised with a wai.

Give or don't give, it's up to you and get rid of any useless guilt feelings.

Owners like (encourage) you to tip (30 baht on 190....yeah sure), it keeps their wage bill down.