Sin ( Groan ) Sod For Previously Married Girl

[Birdman]

Thanks Op...don't recall a thread where the op has come back and given up the agreed sin sod........as a guide for others

Best wishes

Geo

the opposite circumstance would be much more spectacular, especially if the OP has to wait a few years to save for the requested ss, like uncountable Thai men have to do.

Edited January 30, 2010 by Birdman

[Latindancer]

I don't need to slip out to the loo to discharge......I get the real thing, and afterwards I'm still of the same mind to get married to this girl. She's a gem.

She also told me without prompting that Thai girls often help their fiances save for the sin sot, though in reality her contribution would not be much. As a science teacher she receives the royal sum of 7,000 baht a month. But I appreciated her honesty in this.....and everything else.

[gcrepos]

I don't need to slip out to the loo to discharge......I get the real thing, and afterwards I'm still of the same mind to get married to this girl. She's a gem.

She also told me without prompting that Thai girls often help their fiances save for the sin sot, though in reality her contribution would not be much. As a science teacher she receives the royal sum of 7,000 baht a month. But I appreciated her honesty in this.....and everything else.

30k 70% reduction from the original asking .......I would guess you have earned your respect

a thai family structure is very different to most farangs extended family units living in close proximity smooth operation required

gossip in Thai villages is rampant anything sparks off small squabbles keeping face is important you will become an important member of this local community ......at all times your father in law will up his living conditions at the next available option giving you a release at this moment is a kind gesture at this point once your an integrated family member your role will become clearer good luck hope all is good many enjoy a good life this way its just a little different that's all

[kitiya1980]

I'm glad the OP seems to have found a balance. I would just add this.

If you have all the feelings you need to be in love, and then someone asks you for money, you owe it to yourself to slip out to the loo. have a wank. Come back and listen to the question again with fresh ears.

I suspect no forum intervention will be required.

In fact, insist that all money related conversation occur AFTER you have blown you load. I think this therapy would go a long way to helping ensure quality decisions are made by the make members. (pun intended).

Well said! u made me and my bf laugh:P

[richm7]

I am the OP and there have been many posts here since I logged in yesterday. I have only had time to read a few and skim through others. I will definitely read them properly later.

However I wish to state that the problem seems to have been resolved, for the most part. I became aware that I was stepping on her father's toes culturally, a little too hard, and after she talked with her father regarding my financial state and the other factors, it seems that daddyo only expects 30,000. This is not much money in the big scheme of things. There is an interesting twist though. My original offer was to pay the parents 1,000 baht per month....every month.....not irregularly, as my fiance was. But it seems that a lump sum of 30,000 is expected, with only occasional help given later when needed. Honey-bunny says that the locals gossip a lot and apart from her parents losing face if I marry her with no sin sot, her parents themselves would feel very bad. I get the definite impression that this is the case and not a grab for money. So it's a better deal for me in the long run. It seems that traditions and their interpretation vary a lot across Thailand. Anyway, I could only do so much. If I step on their toes too hard, there will be bad feelngs later, and this is not good. Better to do as Thais do, take the middle path, and avoid making anyone feel bad.

We are only having a small wedding in Bangkok, with her parents and a few of her friends and co-workers present ( and maybe brothers and sisters coming in by bus ), so I am not too fussed if I have to pay for the wedding.

I might add that my fiance is a very honest person. She has never even once given me pause for thought regarding her honesty, despite my testing her on a few occasions. She is also a very sweet, feminine girl, and above all else sincere. So I have always had these things in mind when thinking about this issue of sin sot.

If any of my friends were to visit Thailand, my advice to them would be to stay away from bars and even uneducated village girls, and meet a teacher like my fiance. They are educated and very conscious of their role as a person in society who is respectable and who needs to be seen as respectable. So they are constantly having this reinforced on their consciousness.

I'm happy with the outcome. Thanks for your input, folks. Though the previous poster quite seriously needs a lot of compassion. He has obviously met too many of the wrong sort of girl. This is a country of about 65 million people though, so of course there are plenty of decent people out there..... and my fiance is just right for me.

Congratulations Dancer on your sense and your negotiating skills. Looks like a win/win situation to me. I wish you and your soon to be wife all the very best for the future. Seems like you found a good 'un.

[473geo]

Thanks Op...don't recall a thread where the op has come back and given up the agreed sin sod........as a guide for others

Best wishes

Geo

the opposite circumstance would be much more spectacular, especially if the OP has to wait a few years to save for the requested ss, like uncountable Thai men have to do.

The opposite...a girl with 100k debt paying the OP 30k you mean?.... ......spectacular would be a bit of an understatement!!!!

He has gone the correct route....why....because he is comfortable with the solution....and that is all the requirements met...

[waza]

In Thailand, bride price (locally known as sin sot and often erroneously referred to by the English term "dowry") is common in both Thai-Thai and Thai-foreign marriages. The bride price may range from nothing, if the woman is divorced, has a child fathered by another man, or is widely known to have had premarital relations with many men; to ten million Thai Baht (US$330,000) or more for a woman of high social standing, a beauty queen, or a highly educated woman. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bride_price

[Birdman]

Thanks Op...don't recall a thread where the op has come back and given up the agreed sin sod........as a guide for others

Best wishes

Geo

the opposite circumstance would be much more spectacular, especially if the OP has to wait a few years to save for the requested ss, like uncountable Thai men have to do.

The opposite...a girl with 100k debt paying the OP 30k you mean?.... ......spectacular would be a bit of an understatement!!!!

He has gone the correct route....why....because he is comfortable with the solution....and that is all the requirements met...

I mean: Someone from Farangland wants to marry a Thai lady without willing to pay a sinsod, but suddenly agrees to pay that, let's say 300.000, without any money on hand. Therefore they cannot marry and have to wait a few years until he saved all that.

It's like I said.....like uncountable Thai men had/have to do...........can you imagine that??????

[473geo]

Thanks Op...don't recall a thread where the op has come back and given up the agreed sin sod........as a guide for others

Best wishes

Geo

the opposite circumstance would be much more spectacular, especially if the OP has to wait a few years to save for the requested ss, like uncountable Thai men have to do.

The opposite...a girl with 100k debt paying the OP 30k you mean?.... ......spectacular would be a bit of an understatement!!!!

He has gone the correct route....why....because he is comfortable with the solution....and that is all the requirements met...

I mean: Someone from Farangland wants to marry a Thai lady without willing to pay a sinsod, but suddenly agrees to pay that, let's say 300.000, without any money on hand. Therefore they cannot marry and have to wait a few years until he saved all that.

It's like I said.....like uncountable Thai men had/have to do...........can you imagine that??????

ok sorry...... .... get what you mean.......a big incentive to keep the outgoings low!!!

[gcrepos]

In Thailand, bride price (locally known as sin sot and often erroneously referred to by the English term "dowry") is common in both Thai-Thai and Thai-foreign marriages. The bride price may range from nothing, if the woman is divorced, has a child fathered by another man, or is widely known to have had premarital relations with many men; to ten million Thai Baht (US$330,000) or more for a woman of high social standing, a beauty queen, or a highly educated woman. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bride_price

a man who paid the bride price but looked for another bride would not get a refund, but he would if the father of the bride refused the match.

If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

hummm 20yr old forced to marry hmmm 50 shekels of silver I wonder how that works out in silver...A shekel was about 15 grams of silver. This means you would need about 750 grams of silver. At today's price of $17.50 an ounce, for 26.5 ounces, that is about $455

................................. thb the post is over I take it

Edited January 30, 2010 by gcrepos

[Petesear]

It is the family's choice whether or not to ask for 'sin-sod'. Being divorced is of no relevance.

100k Baht is not an unusual government debt after finishing Uni', if it was a private one, this money would have covered the cost of living and course fees.

OP, if you really feel that you love the girl then pay what is asked and be prepared to help the family when needed...

Good luck

[a2396]

It is the family's choice whether or not to ask for 'sin-sod'. Being divorced is of no relevance.

100k Baht is not an unusual government debt after finishing Uni', if it was a private one, this money would have covered the cost of living and course fees.

OP, if you really feel that you love the girl then pay what is asked and be prepared to help the family when needed...

Good luck

Baloney.

[rixalex]

It is the family's choice whether or not to ask for 'sin-sod'. Being divorced is of no relevance.

Who told you this? The in-laws?

[Beardog]

Sin sod only paid on first marriage. rule # 1

If in doubt look & revert back to rule#1

Even in Thai culture it is a known fact of rule #1

& only a desperado would pay the bin twice. She already milked the cow once.

The family actually may like it done this way but unless they are pimping their daughter for dollars they have no say. Please revert back to rule #1. If you read up about Thailand's culture it will tell you sin sod is only done once (on 1st. marriage) & even at that the monies are suppose to be given back to the bride & spouse. There is a whole pinned section on the top of general to read.

[thunder30101]

And today folks we have a slightly used, only bought once item for 70 % off. Dude if you give that old money grubber one satang you get everything you deserve.

[phil2]

You have already been told the answer, definitively, in no uncertain terms.

Sin sod is paid once. Period. There is no second sin sod in Thai culture. That's the deal. It is impossible then to think anything other than that her family is trying to scam you, AND SO IS SHE. They know the rules.

sounds like the daughter is under pressure from the father and that will always be the case"family first"

Exactly what I'm going through. But my "No" is always no.

[way2muchcoffee]

Latindancer,

I'm mystified. You have been told multiple times that a second sin sod is NOT Thai culture. They would never ask this of a Thai man because he would laugh in their faces. The fact that they lowered it to 30,000 is indication of the seriousness with which they took their initial offer. You are being scammed. There is no other way to look at it. I am sorry for that. If you are okay with it then fine, but do not enter into this marriage with any delusions.

[dustybooky]

Tell the family to take a hike.

Don't worry, they'll probably try again from another angle soon enough.

I got married 6 years ago to a woman who was once married, I made it clear to her that I was marrying her and not her family. My wife was happy just to be with me and our son.

Just make it clear to your future wife or gf or whatever what it is you are ready to put up with and stick to that.

I had never heard of Sin Sod until reading this post.

Since our marriage a couple of family members have asked for handouts. One was told by my wife to f%$* off immediately. She only told me afterwords. He wanted 3 moths worth of car payments, doesn't talk to us no mo'. Another knows I (and my wife) want nothing to do with her since she pawned another sister's land deed. Peace and quiet from that direction as well.

My advice to you is this: When dealing with what you own, don't think with your balls. If the woman wants you for yourself, as opposed to a cash cow for the family, she'll understand what you are saying and be with you. If not, you will have lost nothing. If you are one of those farangs whose wife can be manipulated against your interest (ie. "if you don't do this you are not Thai") then you will be in a miserable (and potentially dangerous) situation later on.

BTW, We didn't use any agency to help us get married and that saved us quite a bundle as well. This is another racket industry right there. Go to the marriage bureau, find out what they want, get your docs in order and translated and go back and get married, get and keep your certificate/registration etc. and...end of story. Interpreter?, your wife will be your interpreter. The cost is next to nothing and give the official lunch money (300-500 baht tops) , nuff said. Any other kind of marriage (chapel, temple whatever) is not the one that counts here, its the one at the government office that do.

Best of luck

D

[Garry9999]

A second sin sod is NOT Thai culture.

I'm not at all sure about that. If a Thai man chose to marry a widow or divorcee he may consider paying Sin Sod. After all, paying Sin Sod gives face to the payer as well as the receiver.

[AsiaCheese]

You have already been told the answer, definitively, in no uncertain terms.

Sin sod is paid once. Period. There is no second sin sod in Thai culture. That's the deal. It is impossible then to think anything other than that her family is trying to scam you, AND SO IS SHE. They know the rules.

sounds like the daughter is under pressure from the father and that will always be the case"family first"

Exactly. Family pressure [father] has a lot more weight than the Western mind can comprehend. I've seen a few too many cases of that, where the daughter in question was between a rock & a hard place, to say the least (giving this particular one the benefit of doubt & assuming a straight role on her part).

Sin sod is a bit like a bar fine . It stems from the loss of a worker on the family farm that needs to be compensated for (well, more or less). Once she's gone, she's gone, so the question/issue shouldn't arise more than once -- but that doesn't compute with Thai logic. Unfortunately, it's more than common to take the façade at convenient face value (i.e. there's such a thing as sin sod; let's get our mittens on it) than to comprehend/follow/act according to the underlying theme! I guess another way of putting it (with fewer words -- just one) is "greed"...

[rixalex]

A second sin sod is NOT Thai culture.

I'm not at all sure about that. If a Thai man chose to marry a widow or divorcee he may consider paying Sin Sod. After all, paying Sin Sod gives face to the payer as well as the receiver.

Point is, i don't think the Thai man would be asked and i don't think it would be expected. If he chose to give it anyway, well then that would be up to him.

[AsiaCheese]

Just some questions? Something's I don`t understand and really want to know.

What is the fascination with these women that makes some guys go completely topsie turby and create a shit or bust situation for themselves, risking their mental, emotional and financial well being?

Why cant they find a normal partner, you know, boy meets girl, they fall in love and spend some years building their lives and finances together and live happily ever after?

What`s the deal here?

Please, can someone explain?

Simple. It's a case of apples & oranges. Your idea of boy meets girl is based on meeting someone "local", i.e. of the same mentality and roughly reproducible way of thinking. Both are not the case between a Western guy with an Asian lady. Doesn't necessarily mean that that's always something negative, but it's a major mine field.

But then, the real deal is that most men are prick-driven... It's either hormones or the brain, but there's no multitasking with the two. I'm unconditionally in this category as well -- that's not bashing anyone!

(reason for edit: typo)

Edited January 31, 2010 by AsiaCheese

[Garry9999]

Just some questions? Something's I don`t understand and really want to know.

What is the fascination with these women that makes some guys go completely topsie turby and create a shit or bust situation for themselves, risking their mental, emotional and financial well being?

Why cant they find a normal partner, you know, boy meets girl, they fall in love and spend some years building their lives and finances together and live happily ever after?

What`s the deal here?

Please, can someone explain?

Simple. It's a case of apples & oranges. Your idea of boy meets girl is based on meeting someone "local", i.e. of the same mentality and roughly reproducible way of thinking. Both are not the case between a Western guy with an Asian lady. Doesn't necessarily mean that that's always something negative, but it's a major mine field.

But then, the real deal is that most men are prick-driven... It's either hormones or the brain, but there's no multitasking with the two. I'm unconditionally in this category as well -- that's not bashing anyone!

(reason for edit: typo)

It's interesting that so many western men who would pay (or already have paid) thousands of pounds/dollars for a diamond engagement ring, in keeping with western culture, have so many problems with the Thai custom of Sin Sod.

[William Osborne]

Just had a word with one of my neices (Thai). She went away to Uni for 4 years, and owes around 20,000 Baht, which she is paying back every month, now that she is working. My wife and I happily helped out with her accomodation costs, at 10,000 baht a year, so where the OP's girlfriend gets the sum of 100,000 baht for educational debts, is frankly beyond me. (And possibly beyond belief).

32 seems old to have a student loan ???

[William Osborne]

..... Honey-bunny says .....

Calling your GF "honey-bunny" on a public forum is ....... words fail me

Edited January 31, 2010 by William Osborne

[Xeralf]

…you never had a fight, disagreement etc in 10 months? That is...no words...

[eurasianthai]

Can't be that in the 21st century, the Sin Sod in Thailand can generate so many discussions.

Can it?

[rgs2001uk]

Just some questions? Something's I don`t understand and really want to know.

What is the fascination with these women that makes some guys go completely topsie turby and create a shit or bust situation for themselves, risking their mental, emotional and financial well being?

Why cant they find a normal partner, you know, boy meets girl, they fall in love and spend some years building their lives and finances together and live happily ever after?

What`s the deal here?

Please, can someone explain?

Simple. It's a case of apples & oranges. Your idea of boy meets girl is based on meeting someone "local", i.e. of the same mentality and roughly reproducible way of thinking. Both are not the case between a Western guy with an Asian lady. Doesn't necessarily mean that that's always something negative, but it's a major mine field.

But then, the real deal is that most men are prick-driven... It's either hormones or the brain, but there's no multitasking with the two. I'm unconditionally in this category as well -- that's not bashing anyone!

(reason for edit: typo)

It's interesting that so many western men who would pay (or already have paid) thousands of pounds/dollars for a diamond engagement ring, in keeping with western culture, have so many problems with the Thai custom of Sin Sod.

Probably for the simple reason, in western culture if the engagement or wedding doesnt last it is customary for the engagement ring to be returned.

Please give us the benefit of you knowledge and let us know how many cases you know of, of sinsot being returned when a marriage goes belly up.

[473geo]

Just some questions? Something's I don`t understand and really want to know.

What is the fascination with these women that makes some guys go completely topsie turby and create a shit or bust situation for themselves, risking their mental, emotional and financial well being?

Why cant they find a normal partner, you know, boy meets girl, they fall in love and spend some years building their lives and finances together and live happily ever after?

What`s the deal here?

Please, can someone explain?

Simple. It's a case of apples & oranges. Your idea of boy meets girl is based on meeting someone "local", i.e. of the same mentality and roughly reproducible way of thinking. Both are not the case between a Western guy with an Asian lady. Doesn't necessarily mean that that's always something negative, but it's a major mine field.

But then, the real deal is that most men are prick-driven... It's either hormones or the brain, but there's no multitasking with the two. I'm unconditionally in this category as well -- that's not bashing anyone!

(reason for edit: typo)

There are marriage breakup/divorces all over the world.......these situations in Thailand (mixed national marriage failures) are mostly heavily loaded in favour of the Thai.....the foreigner has no welfare back up here, as in many western countries, where accomodation and food would be provided, so the break up and financial implications, appear, and are, much more severe. In any country if you are not a native and end up with no home or visible means of support you are in trouble.

The interesting thing is that in terms of real value the 'losses' are not always that great (not in all cases though) in comparrison with the amount you can pay out and carry on paying in child support elsewhere - but I think these things are catching up!!!!

So perhaps on the face of it the intial risk is not that great.....and coded to the balance sheet of life as the cost/investment in happiness and fun.........but when the fun stops perhaps the 'loss' on the balance sheet, highlighted as non returnable expenditure is viewed in a different light?

Edited January 31, 2010 by 473geo

[Loz]

A second sin sod is NOT Thai culture.

I'm not at all sure about that. If a Thai man chose to marry a widow or divorcee he may consider paying Sin Sod. After all, paying Sin Sod gives face to the payer as well as the receiver.

<deleted>!!! What one man may do is not the deffinition of Thai culture. Were you high when you wrote that?