Germany Concerned About Thailand's Political Turmoil

[gharknes]

I think the single most important thing that would trigger great instability here is the health of the King, i do hope he recovers from his current illness - if he doesn't - thailand is in big big trouble

[Sisaketmike]

Why is it always about former Ministers? Actually I know Mr. Glos from Germany, he knows so much about Thailand like a cat about astral physics. For my opinion what Mr. Glos is saying means nothing at all, similar to the most German politicians. Mr. Glos forgot to mention how dangerous it might be for a Thai to go to East Germany. They don't make a difference there between Thais or Vietnamese people, just called Fidschis…… The past has shown that some Skinheads are just beating the shit out of people with another cultural background, or color of their skin. Some got beaten to death. Could the former minister of economics and technology explain where he had gained his knowledge? He shouldn't read newspapers like 'Die Bildzeitung' or other nonsense. Glos ,I know that you know nothing. And nobody here gives a flying shit about your weird statement.

Whatever you think of Mr. Glos, the concerns he expressed are valid and as one poster already mentioned before, are well representative for foreign investors, tourists etc.

Just look at the Map Ta Phut case now. Top this with a Red Shirt uprise, this all would be a major setback for the entire country.

Btw, I don't know what your remarks with regard to East Germany and racism have to do with the topic.

Cheers

I would never be so bold as to infer I know more than a former economics Minister

I mean could there be the slighest possibility that he has access to observations and information ( through diplomatic channels )

from by the German Embassy in Bangkok that could change your mind Sisaketmike ?

What do you mean about the diplomatic channels of an ex-Miller? He knows how to play “Schafkopf” and he enjoys drinking lower Franconia wine. Of course a “Scweinshaxen’ has to be part of his breakfast as a Bavarian fortune teller. Amen.

P.S. Do you have access to your brain? I mean using simple logical structures to compare you with a Neanderthal man?

[hammered]

Both of us were talking about the "general workforce."

Of course, you can find some Thais that are serious about other languages.

They are in a small minority. Most Thais can barely speak English.

In Cambodia you will find loads of students/workers who speak English well.

In general terms, you will see better educated students in Vietnam, Malaysia and Cambodia.

And you will find that they are less lazy than Thais.

I could say the same for China and Japan.

Disagree........no problem. As stated, there are exceptions.

But money talks. And the investment money is going to Vietnam, Malaysia, and Cambodia.

What is happening is a shift in strategic power in the region.

In biology there it is often said "adapt or go extinct." Put differently, "change or die."

I think that sums it up the choice Thailand must make.

Cambodia is not anywhere near the same league as Thailand. Vietanm is on the irse and will be a credible alternative to Thailand soon, Malaysia is a smaller more developed country in genral which also has undelying polticla problems but not pro-environemnt court decisons holding it back a tad.

Thai students and workers are far better educated than Cambodians

[Tejas]

Both of us were talking about the "general workforce."

Of course, you can find some Thais that are serious about other languages.

They are in a small minority. Most Thais can barely speak English.

In Cambodia you will find loads of students/workers who speak English well.

In general terms, you will see better educated students in Vietnam, Malaysia and Cambodia.

And you will find that they are less lazy than Thais.

I could say the same for China and Japan.

Disagree........no problem. As stated, there are exceptions.

But money talks. And the investment money is going to Vietnam, Malaysia, and Cambodia.

What is happening is a shift in strategic power in the region.

In biology there it is often said "adapt or go extinct." Put differently, "change or die."

I think that sums it up the choice Thailand must make.

Cambodia is not anywhere near the same league as Thailand. Vietanm is on the irse and will be a credible alternative to Thailand soon, Malaysia is a smaller more developed country in genral which also has undelying polticla problems but not pro-environemnt court decisons holding it back a tad.

Thai students and workers are far better educated than Cambodians

Cambodia's GDP growth actually exceeded China's a few years ago. It is growing by leaps and bounds. Lots of foreign countries are investing heavily in Cambodia.

No, it is not where Thailand is today. But that is not the point.

[VegasVic]

The view expressed by the German is representative of Western investors, businesses, corporations.

It refocuses Thailand on the great and urgent need to return to some semblance of democratic stability.

You hit the nail on the head. I would add the following:

1) They must change their education system so that graduates are competitive in the global marketplace.

3) They must attack a growing xenophobia, anti-foreigner sentiment in the country.

4) They must address human rights issues.

5) They must take the immigration system, flush it down the toilet where it belongs, and start over.

6) They must make strong changes to foreign business rules, especially for small scale businesses.

7) They must address income inequality, especially between rural and urban residents.

8) They must address environmental problems like air pollution.

9) They must learn something about urban planning.

I could go on, but that is enough for now.

Tejas, Your list here would be an excellent starting point Thailands economic future is dependant on the implementation of these 9 ideas plus perhaps a few others not listed. If Thailand does not wake up soon and European, North American and Japanese investments and tourisim begin to dry up then Thailand could easily become primarily reliant on the likes of China, which would send the country back into the third world like much of the Chinese countryside is. It is really a shame, just a few years ago Thailand was the star of the new Asian economic machine and now Thailand finds itself teetering on this dangerous economic precipice

[LaoPo]

Tejas, Your list here would be an excellent starting point Thailands economic future is dependant on the implementation of these 9 ideas plus perhaps a few others not listed. If Thailand does not wake up soon and European, North American and Japanese investments and tourisim begin to dry up then Thailand could easily become primarily reliant on the likes of China, which would send the country back into the third world like much of the Chinese countryside is. It is really a shame, just a few years ago Thailand was the star of the new Asian economic machine and now Thailand finds itself teetering on this dangerous economic precipice

Hello VegasVic

Good to see you back; not that we agreed many times but I wondered what happened to you since you were absent for quite some time, weren't you? Hope you were not kidnapped or something by contrarians or even anti-contrarians

Always good to see "old soldiers" back in town with their guns, bows and arrows and spears

LaoPo

[CLOD]

It isn't just the Germans, word is out there, its getting a reet wide berth.

[VegasVic]

Tejas, Your list here would be an excellent starting point Thailands economic future is dependant on the implementation of these 9 ideas plus perhaps a few others not listed. If Thailand does not wake up soon and European, North American and Japanese investments and tourisim begin to dry up then Thailand could easily become primarily reliant on the likes of China, which would send the country back into the third world like much of the Chinese countryside is. It is really a shame, just a few years ago Thailand was the star of the new Asian economic machine and now Thailand finds itself teetering on this dangerous economic precipice

Hello VegasVic

Good to see you back; not that we agreed many times but I wondered what happened to you since you were absent for quite some time, weren't you? Hope you were not kidnapped or something by contrarians or even anti-contrarians

Always good to see "old soldiers" back in town with their guns, bows and arrows and spears

LaoPo

Thanks for the shout out there Lao! I still poke my head in here from time to time and I still wear my sidearm (of course I have to take it off when entering the clubhouse for lunch or dinner), but I'll leave the bows and arrows for the indians and the spears for the africans Contrary to board rumors I wasn't kidnapped, however my government was kidnapped Not to worry though the U.S. voting public now realizes the mistake they made back in November 2008 and the situation will be rectified this November Take care my friend(?)

[seri thai]

"Can we be assured zat our sunbeds are secure?"

To digress further, having just returned from Pattaya I find the Russians have now adopted this custom. along with being rude and abrupt to the local untermensch. Little Odessa now extends from Koh Kong to Koh Lan. Should be good for the ex-pat Kamnan and his family.

[Tejas]

The view expressed by the German is representative of Western investors, businesses, corporations.

It refocuses Thailand on the great and urgent need to return to some semblance of democratic stability.

You hit the nail on the head. I would add the following:

1) They must change their education system so that graduates are competitive in the global marketplace.

3) They must attack a growing xenophobia, anti-foreigner sentiment in the country.

4) They must address human rights issues.

5) They must take the immigration system, flush it down the toilet where it belongs, and start over.

6) They must make strong changes to foreign business rules, especially for small scale businesses.

7) They must address income inequality, especially between rural and urban residents.

8) They must address environmental problems like air pollution.

9) They must learn something about urban planning.

I could go on, but that is enough for now.

Tejas, Your list here would be an excellent starting point Thailands economic future is dependant on the implementation of these 9 ideas plus perhaps a few others not listed. If Thailand does not wake up soon and European, North American and Japanese investments and tourisim begin to dry up then Thailand could easily become primarily reliant on the likes of China, which would send the country back into the third world like much of the Chinese countryside is. It is really a shame, just a few years ago Thailand was the star of the new Asian economic machine and now Thailand finds itself teetering on this dangerous economic precipice

Thanks for the positive response. I agree about Thailand being the star......about ten years ago.........but now is far from that.

Unfortunately, it seems that we can't discuss why on TV. My guess is that the subject is a bit sensitive at the moment.

No problem, many of us are fully aware of who caused the hole in the Titanic.

I also agree about American politics. When is "change" = to "no change?" When an election takes place in America.

[buriexpat]

Why is it always about former Ministers? Actually I know Mr. Glos from Germany, he knows so much about Thailand like a cat about astral physics. For my opinion what Mr. Glos is saying means nothing at all, similar to the most German politicians. Mr. Glos forgot to mention how dangerous it might be for a Thai to go to East Germany. They don't make a difference there between Thais or Vietnamese people, just called Fidschis…… The past has shown that some Skinheads are just beating the shit out of people with another cultural background, or color of their skin. Some got beaten to death. Could the former minister of economics and technology explain where he had gained his knowledge? He shouldn't read newspapers like 'Die Bildzeitung' or other nonsense. Glos ,I know that you know nothing. And nobody here gives a flying shit about your weird statement.

"SIEG HEIL" or what you mean with your stupid posting???

8 years you live in thailand , so what you know about germany of today ???

we have now living in the year 2010 not 1944

and before you write more..... think about IRAQ and how many innocent people the british soldiers killing there together with the us war mongers

[SomTumTiger]

If it makes you guys feel any better - I am not at all concerned about "Thailand's Political Turmoil". I know how much that means for you all.

[SomTumTiger]

Double Post.

Edited February 4, 2010 by SomTumTiger

[dick turpin]

Talking with a pattaya based thai construction guy the other day said he has three

falangs pull out of housing projects in the last couple of months because of the

political uncertainty...some herren folk take this all too seriously.

Methinks more likely teeruk has run off with the deposit.

Edited February 4, 2010 by dick turpin

[Publicus]

Dr Trairong said he told the minister that Thailand had explained to foreign investors for proper understanding of the situations and assured them that no coup would occur because the current political turmoil is not severe enough to warrant a coup.

I always love it when government ministers or whoever feel the need to "explain things for proper understanding"

Like when ambassadors were summoned to be given a clear picture of the charges against Thaksin etc.

" Hi. My names Eric G John and I'm the US Ambassador to Thailand. Bit of luck really. I won my position in a Lucky Draw at a local mom and pop store. 2nd prize was a case of St Ides Malt Liquor."

Since a hundred years the position of US ambassador to Thailand has required an incumbent thoroughly versed of all aspects of Thai society and civilization. In the view of the US, Thailand is neither Monte Carlo nor is it Monaco. The US is the place where the king was born and spent his early childhood.

So your post in this regard won first prize - which is a week in Kon Khen. Of course, 2nd prize is two weeks in Kon Khen. Third prize is three weeks in Kon Khen.

Actually my point being (sorry if it wasn't clear) that it's unlikely that a person of the stature of the US Ambassador would need things explaining to him as if he were some dullard who'd won his position.

BTW. Been to KK for any length of time? In fact been to KK ever?

Thank you for your question. I ask your patience and indulgence while I review my appointments and travel calendars of the past 13 years to try to provide you with the best and most accurate answer possible.   

In the meantime, however, I'd invite you to make a post of even 100 words of substance, content, quality, argument, discourse or even persuasion, or even more of any matters that pertain to the topic of the thread, especially concerning matters of intellectual content -  if you might be so inclined.

Eagerly awaiting your impressive reply, I am

Sincerely yours,

Publicus.

 

[mca]

Well rather than wax lyrical in an attempt to impress my fellow members with the extent of my intellect and ability to use the English language I thought my tongue in cheek post might adequately sum up the mindset of the upper echelons in Thailand and their attitude towards having to explain to other groups about the real situation.

Obviously my apology for not making my post clear wasn't accepted. So be it.

BTW if you want to play the world weary patronizing game with me I'd enjoy it. In fact I'd relish it. You vastly overestimate your ability in being a poster versed in the skills of the "put down" Whereas I, to borrow from the works of William Somerset Maugham, would " open a can of whup ass on ya " and i wouldn't even have to resort to the oft bleated about on this forum "flame"

Let's leave it shall we? Truce? Don't want to spoil the thread because of our combined egos.

[caf]

Well rather than wax lyrical in an attempt to impress my fellow members with the extent of my intellect and ability to use the English language I thought my tongue in cheek post might adequately sum up the mindset of the upper echelons in Thailand and their attitude towards having to explain to other groups about the real situation.

Obviously my apology for not making my post clear wasn't accepted. So be it.

BTW if you want to play the world weary patronizing game with me I'd enjoy it. In fact I'd relish it. You vastly overestimate your ability in being a poster versed in the skills of the "put down" Whereas I, to borrow from the works of William Somerset Maugham, would " open a can of whup ass on ya " and i wouldn't even have to resort to the oft bleated about on this forum "flame"

Let's leave it shall we? Truce? Don't want to spoil the thread because of our combined egos.

Seconded

[CLOD]

its fair to say that it isnt just Germany who are concerned about Thailands political turmoil.

Germany are a mainstay of the European Union , and are probably just reflecting the view of the European union as a whole, mine included.

Such generalized concern would be understandable about a country where military Juntas still overthrow democratically elected governments, and where there are people of power who want to deny all a vote, and elections.

Such disgracefull affronts to the democratic process would not be lost on an organisation who pride the democratic process, and have noted the Human Rights Watch report about abisits human rights abuse.

Abisit knows this and now needs to do the right thing to allieviate the wider German concerns.

[animatic]

~Sadly there was no democraticaly elected government in power

at the time of the last Thailand coup.

Nothing more that the Thaksin Caretaker Cabinet and that dwindling as cabinet members

abandoned a sinking ship.

There was no Parlaiment, there was no one by Thaksin and a dozen rubber stamp yes men.

And there had just been a badly executed faux 'attempt at killing Thaksin', likely to be used

as a excuse to create marshal law and absolute Thaksin power.

Thaksin was self-isolated, and the only formerly strong voices in his cabinet had quit,

this was not the great 'Democratically Elected Government' you trumpet loudly

yet completely falsely. It was the short route to a despotic rule by a tyrant.

[Ricardo]

its fair to say that it isnt just Germany who are concerned about Thailands political turmoil.

Germany are a mainstay of the European Union , and are probably just reflecting the view of the European union as a whole, mine included.

Such generalized concern would be understandable about a country where military Juntas still overthrow democratically elected governments, and where there are people of power who want to deny all a vote, and elections.

Such disgracefull affronts to the democratic process would not be lost on an organisation who pride the democratic process, and have noted the Human Rights Watch report about abisits human rights abuse.

Abisit knows this and now needs to do the right thing to allieviate the wider German concerns.

Or perhaps this general concern, about Thaksin's efforts to stir up trouble, in the country where he was once a respected PM, explains why he is no-longer welcome in Germany or the U.K. ?

And PM-Abhisit's clear message to all, that the courts will be encouraged to fairly try cases before them without pressure from the government, or threats to judges from self-appointed Red-Shirt leaders like Seh Daeng and pressure from members of Thaksin's close family, is a fine example of him doing "the right thing to allieviate the wider German concerns."

Now if only Thaksin could learn from him. But DL has a couple of billion reasons not to do so.

[tombkk]

On mounting concerns that the Thai government would go broke in the next three to four years, the deputy premier said he did not expect the scenario to happen in that period, but it could occur in the next decade unless the government's revenue structure is improved, he warned.

On whose mounting concerns exactly? I can't recall seeing mention of those fears anywhere... Sounds to me like he's selling fear and after a consulting job!

Last year at a foreign chamber of commerce meeting, I heard that Thailand (i.e. the government) used to make 60% of its income from import duties. I can easily believe that, considering the incredibly high import duties at the time compared to the very low income taxes now; I understand that the percentage of income tax filling government coffers in developed countries is much higher.

With import duties for goods into Thailand falling, first due to WTO requirements, then FTA agreements (including ATFA), there is a real shortfall of income. In fact, imports have increased in value while income from import duties has decreased in the same time period. I was wondering at the time, and am still wondering now, how they want to compensate that.

And this is what I believe Mr. Glos meant. I have no idea about time frame and the Thai government going broke within a certain number of years. However, the concern in the business world is real.

Absolute twaddle.

Personal Income Tax

Corporate Tax

Cigarette/Alcohol Duty

Import Duty/Petroleum Duty

You are sadly misinformed.

Interesting. I am looking forward to your post with updated percentages.

[tombkk]

No wonder after all Mr.Thaksin did reside some month in the diplomatic refuge of Germany... Bad Godesberg, even he wasn't supposed to be there!

And yes... business is business, the german government does condone business with Iran and once with Irak!

It's about money and economics, not about the welfare of people or a state as such!

And Businesses stay, while governments come and go - they know - you know!

Mr.Glos.....

Dr. Taksin's didn't stay in Germany very long... The revocation of his visa should be public knowledge, I don't know. Please Google (hope you can find the background), but please don't say the German government provided refuge.

I am always amazed how ThaiVisa is a source of rumours rather than facts. But they sell banner ads, so it's all about business rather than real information.

[raro]

I am always amazed how ThaiVisa is a source of rumours rather than facts. But they sell banner ads, so it's all about business rather than real information.

Thaivisa is not spreading any rumours, but some of our members do. If you find any posts that are twisting facts around, please use the report button and we moderators sort this out.

From our forum rules:

15) Not to use ThaiVisa.com to post any material which is knowingly or can be reasonably construed as false, inaccurate, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law.

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