Between A Rock And A Hard Place Sin Sod

[CarlBkk]

Rich and poor families alike expect sinsot from Thai or foreign husbands. Very few are "western-thinking" enough to forego this custom, but the good parents will return all gold/cash straight after the wedding to the couple regardless of their financial status. That's the first thing to ascertain with your wife and only then will you see how independant and mature she really is. If the parents are pretty poor she may ask to transfer a little of the returned sinsot to them monthly, she may ask for a small amount to give them a useful one-off gift, or she may just happily accept back all sinsot and continue with whatever she did for them before now. Talk about this with her. If she goes back on it then that's another topic. If you're not easily able to afford the sinsot she should, assuming a certain amount of intelligence, logic and loyalty, do what is best for you (and her).

"A high social status"...not sure what you mean by this. Certain women are deemed to be able to obtain larger sinsots due to looks, behaviour, local respect and family reputation. Wealthy Isaan women with all of the afore do exist and some foreigners may be lucky enough to attract one. Most get tempted and snared way before that opportunity arises!

[llso]

Ahh, The age age old Farang Sin Sod question. Without boring many TV members , I have lived in Thailand for more than 7 years , speak Thai fluently. Married to a wonderful hard working lower Issan lady and am now repatriated to the U.S. I have spent a lot of time in the Issan village and am very respected mainly for my hard ass "Jai Dahm" attitude. I have sat in on vilage Sin Sod negotiations . Mostly sitting outside with the menfolk plying with me with Lao Khao while my wife and the woman bargained the Sin Sod. In my experience a typical Sin Sod in an Issan villge for marriage between Thai's with a "virtuos" girl - virgin is about a baht or so of Gold and about 30-40,000 Thai Baht. Obviouslly, for a Farang it is more. The amount of the Sin Sod depends on the girl's virtue, Married before or not, and age,education, job ,etc,and family.

LL

[qwertz]

^interesting every thai lad I know who is married never paid any sinsod and they say that farangs are just being scammed if they actually give any dosh to a money grubbing family. SinSot is only for show, if anyone tells you differently they are full of BS. Now I am not saying after you are married you won't help the family time to time within reason because you will.

Sinsot is not a dowery!! I sometimes seriously wonder about some tv members intelligence sometimes.

Nicely summed up, BM but intelligence has very little to do with emotion and too many farangs don't do their homework or bother to observe what the locals do.

[khunandy]

A happy wife

A happy life

I like this one.

The Sin Sod is a Thai custom, as much as offering camels for a girl in Africa or the Middle East is

Without it, you're not supposed to get a Thai wife, whatever her social status.

Another old custom is that a woman must be able to weave silk before being considered wife material.

Do they stick with that old custom?

I mentioned this to a mate today and he said "They may not be able to weave silk but they can all spin a good yarn"

Edited February 13, 2010 by khunandy

[Loz]

A bhat of gold and 30-40k sounds good.

friend of mine is marring a falang soon and he's coming over for the sin sod convo shortly. He suggested 100k to her. Her mum has already said it will go to the daughter anyway. Its just a show of "getting with the program". The guy she's marrying seems very keen to marry so whats the problem?

I imagine this is the typical situation. The guy can't beleive his luck and if it means putting his hand in his pocket a bit, the so <deleted> what! Its a bargain. of course, like most bait and switch scams, you will have the pukka deal now and then, and that lends credibility to the "scam". Only you will know in time if it was a pukka deal, or a scam. If you are happy to play to play any which way, just get on with it!

[astral]

PS. SinSot is for show, all dosh should be returned to you. If not then the family is up to no good and should be avoided at all costs.

Agreed.

All mine was returned.

[YanTree]

Put your foot down, give them nothing.

Yes, put your foot down right on their face and piss on their culture - give them nothing.

Thai men almost always pay it. It is a cultural thing. Some girls try and inflate the price and some families try and take advantage of foreigners, yes, but the act of paying sin side is not necessarily a scam.

As I said, bunch of farang snobs in this thread (and on this forum generally).

Don't know if you guys are all lying or have just never been married or engaged or maybe are just clueless and believing what you have read on here from other farang snobs before you - but this thread is full of false information and unfair assumptions.

Not all Thai's have poor intentions toward Farang.

I know a Thai guy in California (!) who paid a sin sod to his Thai wife's family. They are both American but her parents live in Thailand. He told me it is completely normal. This before I ever sent foot in Thailand. At the time I was shocked. Now I understand. It is just a part of their culture. As so many other things about their culture that are so different from the west.

Do you 'put your foot down' when your Thai wife does all of your laundry, washes all of your dishes, pleases you in bed every single night and does 1,000,000 other things a western woman would never do, because that is her culture? hel_l no, you love it. But when it comes to something about their culture you don't like, you have to put your foot down and insist it is a scam. You have to take the good with the bad here. This is not some fantasy land - it is a different culture.

Edited February 14, 2010 by YanTree

[yabaaaa]

The BS that is written on here is unreal. People going on like they never paid any sin sod money. Every Thai guy I know has paid sin sod to his wifes family. Only one family I know gave it back because they were kinda flush anyway. When I ask thai people about the fraff spoken on here about sinsod they just don't know where you get this rubbish from . It's also amazing how when I speak with farangs outside of the internet, they tell me how much they really pay, never heard of a farang paying less than 100,000 and if you are a 50+ marrying a 30- you are defo paying more than that. Be honest, help the guy out and stop trying to save face. Man, you lot speak about the thais covering things up.

I am not married, but if I married a thai I would follow the tradition within my budget limitations. A better idea for the op would be to build the parents a home (if they need a better one) so that he and mrs can stay once a year when they visit. A far more practical gesture than giving a wad to be gambled or drunk away.

A good thai friend of mine from the south explained to me that, the sin sod is a payment to protect the daughter if the husband leaves her. Traditionally the wife doesnt work so if the man scarpers she is left with nothing. The sin sod will help her parents put a roof over her head, feed her and help any kids out. In recent times the sin sod has become a way of families getting rich, especially where the farang is concerned. However, i see nothing wrong with giving a poor family some money when you marry their daughter as a gesture of good well. The thing we need to accept is that in thailand the man takes care of the family; and that means if you are wealthy you are expected to take care of extended family. When you marry into a thai family you are doing exactly that, your family effectively marries with theirs, it is like that in most non-western countries; thus the reason families look for other suitable families to marry their son or daughter into. I am not saying you have to support everyone, set out your limitations and boundaries and stick to them before you marry. Most women in the UK would not want a wedding costing less than 10-15k, most are 20k+. So, if you marry a thai woman, pay 3k for the wedding and 4k in sin sod and gold then you are still quids in.

You want to clean your ears out then I paid nothing even the 300 baht meal after, she paid. Happy to tell you in person if it will convince you there are folk who DONT pay anything.

Edited February 14, 2010 by yabaaaa

[YanTree]

You want to clean your ears out then I paid nothing even the 300 baht meal after, she paid. Happy to tell you in person if it will convince you there are folk who DONT pay anything.

And I bet that makes you feel better than another guy who paid the sid sod and paid for the meal, right? That is the problem. Whether you pay it or not is irrelevant - what is relevant is whether or not you are respecting her and her family.

That you found a woman who either went along with your demands not to pay it or whose family did not expect it does not make you better than anybody else. And you should not try and impress upon others that nobody has to pay it because you did not.

Also, she sounds like a very lucky woman. I'm sure she dreamed all her life about getting married then going to have a cheap meal alone with her new husband.

[johnnyj]

Just a couple of things...

in this thread I have seen multiple pieces of advice saying along the lines of "tell your wife you married her, not her family"

- every bit of sensible advice i have every read states clearly "if you marry a thai woman you marry into her family" now dont get me wrong I know there are plenty of scams around.

d

but I dont think you are being reasonable to marry a girl from a foreign country - regardless of where - and expect everything to be done to your customs.

however, that said, if the sin sod / village wedding is going to be an issue, have a western style wedding somewhere else in thailand, maybe a nice island or something. invite her friends / family. have a big party for it,

but pull it totally out of the zone, so that you dont look like you are trying to avoid sinsod. and whatever you do, pay for the party!!

just my 2c really, but sometimes you need to approach these situations outside the box, and personally I avoid getting into direct confrontation with any Inlaws, so instead of going the "No sin Sod" route, Id be more inclined to try the diversion route...

[a2396]

Just a couple of things...

in this thread I have seen multiple pieces of advice saying along the lines of "tell your wife you married her, not her family"

- every bit of sensible advice i have every read states clearly "if you marry a thai woman you marry into her family" now dont get me wrong I know there are plenty of scams around.

d

but I dont think you are being reasonable to marry a girl from a foreign country - regardless of where - and expect everything to be done to your customs.

however, that said, if the sin sod / village wedding is going to be an issue, have a western style wedding somewhere else in thailand, maybe a nice island or something. invite her friends / family. have a big party for it,

but pull it totally out of the zone, so that you dont look like you are trying to avoid sinsod. and whatever you do, pay for the party!!

just my 2c really, but sometimes you need to approach these situations outside the box, and personally I avoid getting into direct confrontation with any Inlaws, so instead of going the "No sin Sod" route, Id be more inclined to try the diversion route...

It might be worth a try, but most women are quite subservient to their families and will "dance to their music". As I have said many times, unless you have to get married to take the lady back to your country, why get married at all. It is usually going to be a downhill slide after that, if you do.

[mpetersen]

The BS that is written on here is unreal. People going on like they never paid any sin sod money. Every Thai guy I know has paid sin sod to his wifes family. Only one family I know gave it back because they were kinda flush anyway. When I ask thai people about the fraff spoken on here about sinsod they just don't know where you get this rubbish from . It's also amazing how when I speak with farangs outside of the internet, they tell me how much they really pay, never heard of a farang paying less than 100,000 and if you are a 50+ marrying a 30- you are defo paying more than that. Be honest, help the guy out and stop trying to save face. Man, you lot speak about the thais covering things up.

I am not married, but if I married a thai I would follow the tradition within my budget limitations. A better idea for the op would be to build the parents a home (if they need a better one) so that he and mrs can stay once a year when they visit. A far more practical gesture than giving a wad to be gambled or drunk away.

A good thai friend of mine from the south explained to me that, the sin sod is a payment to protect the daughter if the husband leaves her. Traditionally the wife doesnt work so if the man scarpers she is left with nothing. The sin sod will help her parents put a roof over her head, feed her and help any kids out. In recent times the sin sod has become a way of families getting rich, especially where the farang is concerned. However, i see nothing wrong with giving a poor family some money when you marry their daughter as a gesture of good well. The thing we need to accept is that in thailand the man takes care of the family; and that means if you are wealthy you are expected to take care of extended family. When you marry into a thai family you are doing exactly that, your family effectively marries with theirs, it is like that in most non-western countries; thus the reason families look for other suitable families to marry their son or daughter into. I am not saying you have to support everyone, set out your limitations and boundaries and stick to them before you marry. Most women in the UK would not want a wedding costing less than 10-15k, most are 20k+. So, if you marry a thai woman, pay 3k for the wedding and 4k in sin sod and gold then you are still quids in.

Italian girls demand 20,000 EUR diamond rings (well at least the stereotypical Italian girl), American girls want the fairy-tale wedding party costing tens of thousands of dollars or more. Thai girls are asked to deliver dowry to her parents. It's all one and the same to me.

Unfortunately my first Thai "marriage" (i.e. not legal but complete ceremony etc) didn't last, but here is how it went: She asked me kindly to please help her older brother back for university expenses he paid after both her parents died. 100K THB. I said ok no problem. She said her family and village friends would appreciate to see 300,000 THB laid out. No problem, because all 300K would be returned and then she'd hand 100K back to her brother (unbeknownst to the rest of the family who would have flipped over that arrangement - not getting a piece of the action). We had previously bought some sort of commitment rings together and decided that those two rings would look wonderful in the ceremony used as wedding rings. I happend to have a pound of gold (in 10g chips) in my safety box which I took along and it was laid out and later retrieved. All in all, her village people thought the world of all that wealth laid out, her brother recovered expenses he put out for his sister which he could ill afford but did at great sacrifice to himself, and I ended up with everything back. We put the 300K in a bank account and I told her that if we ever broke up she could keep half of it. That's indeed what ended up happening some time later, and I kept my promise.

In my second "marriage" we had a low key lunch-time ceremony at a five star hotel in Bangkok, wedding book, pictures and beautiful honeymoon days at JW Marriott in Phuket. No dowry, but my wife gets a salary from my company for which she does hard and efficient work (probably at below-market rates compared to other SME top managers in Thailand), and she is free to do with it as she pleases, including supporting her small sisters through school activities, giving money to her grandma and spending almost none of it on herself.

Yes, sinsod used to put me off, but it's an arrangement that , when put in proper perspective, actually makes sense. Indeed, it would be fair for a farang ex-husband to give his ex-wife the amount of sinsod if they break up because there is no spousal support arrangement, and lots of farang guys even don't bother sending sufficient money to support their own offspring. Now that's off-putting, isn't it.

m

[YanTree]

personally I avoid getting into direct confrontation with any Inlaws, so instead of going the "No sin Sod" route, Id be more inclined to try the diversion route...

Maybe there is something I don't understand about Thai weddings but I don't see how the location of the wedding would change much. I guess there is not the pressure of the whole village wondering how much the sin sod was etc - but I would think that she would have discussed it with you and her parents long before the wedding anyway - and the village will eventually find out regardless of where the wedding is, Thai people love to gossip.

Italian girls demand 20,000 EUR diamond rings (well at least the stereotypical Italian girl), American girls want the fairy-tale wedding party costing tens of thousands of dollars or more. Thai girls are asked to deliver dowry to her parents. It's all one and the same to me.

Well put. All things considered, even with a sin sod, it is going to be much cheaper to marry a Thai woman than an American - and it will be far, far, far cheaper to divorce one - considering alimony and her getting half etc etc. Even if those laws apply in Thailand they would be impossible to enforce unless you have significant assets in Thailand, in your own name.

Edited February 15, 2010 by YanTree

[how241]

My girlfriend tells me that the $$$ should be returned after the wedding. But she also warns that sometimes the $$$ is NOT returned and it is considered bad to ask for it back. You have to get a feel for the family and the situation. Good luck. I would NOT recommend taking out a loan or borrowing to do this.

[Loz]

If there is any doubt in your mind just walk away...

As Yoda says:

Where there is doubt, there is no doubt.

[sambai]

These people are from a village and are expecting you to pay them over and above your ability. This shows what they think of you. You're a money source unfortunately, as nice as they might treat you.

Normal middle-class respectable Thai families will display the Sinsot at the ceremony but it will be returned to you and your wife afterwards. It's just for show.

If these village people expect otherwise, then they're scroungers who want a foreigner's money and don't care how they get it.

My advice is don't associate with the village and keep your distance from the family. The village ceremony is an old and uncivilised practice, and in modern terms you're both married already.

[manjara]

If you marry a Thai lady and you really don't think you are going to have to help out her family then:

a) You are about to marry a heartless b*tch who could care less about her family

You are farang kee nok who doesn't really deserve to have a good life in Thailand

c) Her family are all a bunch of no good scamming b****rds and miraculously she has not inherited the gene!

All this talk of sinsod just makes the whole thing seem like a contract. Maybe the reason they are asking in the first place is because they think you are too jai damm to help where it is needed.

Give them some gold at least!

[hawthorne]

If it does not bother you then pay it.

If it bothers you then don't and deal with it.

If you are looking for an opinion whether it suits you or not which is what opinions are...say no end of story and deal with it harshly from there on out. If the girl brought this subject up to obviously she does not value you as much as her parents.

DO you want to be number 2 or less to your wife? I would divorce her and become a renter..

[Straight8]

Do you believe Yantree, never seen a more eyed view on sin sod in my life, this person is f***** unbelievable.

To each his own, I don't think the OP needs any advice as it seems this thread won't be of much help.

We talk about the thai people customs & culture. Fair enough, but what about mine and your culture. Don't we matter. Maybe my parents would want us to adhere to our way of doing a marriage too. Sickens me when i keep hearing sin sod related to respect. I take it the farang wouldn't mind a bit of that himself.

Pay a sin sod if you like but those willing should look at it as gift to all and sundry other than his wife and himself. If any of it is returned treat that as a bonus.

Personally, I would never pay a sin sod, and i would make that very clear early on in the relationship. None of this nonsense of "you marry the girl, you marry the family". Not in my world. She marry's me, we are now each others family and build our own family. We are to become each others top priority. On special occassions and special days, I would be more than happy to send gifts in dollars & baht, but a monthly stipend will never happen. This is all made clear from the start. If they need more financial stability, then its best to call the whole thing off and let her look for a walking ATM, cause there sure are plenty around who would be happy to oblige.

In the OP's case, my advice, don't pay a single baht, this smell of nothing more than a greedy family out to get as much as they can for as long as they can.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Straight8

[simcity]

Don't get married in the village! (problem solved)

PS. SinSot is for show, all dosh should be returned to you. If not then the family is up to no good and should be avoided at all costs.

That mostly true.

i hear you can rent fake money and gold bar / hire a security guard / have the sinsot under glass and everyone will think it is real ...

[sarahsbloke]

Pay what you agreed when you got married.

Don't even bother going to the village, show her parents the respect they deserve (none) as they do not appear to keep agreements.

I've actually found it to be best not to have anything to do with relatives of your spouse no matter what country they come from.

Edited March 19, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[barky]

Your wife wants you to show respect to her parents by borrowing from your own parents.

Precisely what part of Isaan is your wife from?

Exactly GH!!

If I was your parent, I'd say it's out of the question. In essence, your wife is saying her parents are more important than yours.

No loan!!

If you feel you have to, pay the money only on the proviso that after the public display of BIG FACE by her parents they immediately give you and your wife all the money back.

[Atmos]

My gf's sister gets married next New Years.

SS settled at 100k plus 4baht gold. Bride keeps the gold, money goes to Mum (father deceased) who pays all wedding expenses and keeps the balance invested towards running the farm they all own shares in - and get dividends from.

New husband/wife (both Thai) combined earn a little over 100k per year in Bkk, him 60k+ so that's about three years of his salary. Maybe his family is helping out.

I have no feelings either way on this, just stating the facts they have agreed on.

though in reponse to an earlier post re presenting a 'big cheque' ie over-sized like on game shows, what about a wheelbarrow of Zimbabwean currency? Who would know? A few billion couldn't fail to impress!

[whiterussian]

Don't get married in the village! (problem solved)

PS. SinSot is for show, all dosh should be returned to you. If not then the family is up to no good and should be avoided at all costs.

With respect, that just isn't true!

I haggled good and hard for the sinsod, even managed to 'steal' 7,000 of my money back on a decent wedding ring for myself when we bought the gold... after all my wife was second hand & pushing 29 years old! And as all Thai women know, after 30 years old they dont fetch much on the open market.

The mother in law is utterly skint, no teeth, ragged clothes, I never expected to see the princely sum of ... 30,000 back.

Edited March 19, 2010 by whiterussian