Thailand Braces For Fresh Political Instability

[jb4446]

It's the bagfuls of shit throwing that worry me,it may catch on like shoe throwing,now that would be a very worrying development.

[animatic]

"Jacques Ivanoff, an anthropologist"

Does it suggests that Thaïland's problems are genetic ?

Cultural.

Anthropology is the study of cultures, both macro and micro.

Margret Mead would have a field day here!

I know I do.

[Jingthing]

So folks...the answer.........A transparent, fair election where the voters decide, and not the vote counters, and where both selling AND buying of votes is criminalized and enforced, and where the loser remains the loser.

Simple actually

Not that simple. So you propose banning coalition governments in Thailand? Thailand has many small parties. The PM choice of the party with the greatest number of votes is NOT the winner unless he can form a coalition with other parties to form a government.

[hammered]

Another day another scare story. It sells news.

Funny to see the thread hijacked in the name of land laws and with so many coming to read the instant demise of Thailand.

Did I spot a superciolious and highly condescending if somewaht il-informed Thai poltics 101 piece by a new member reminiscent of many other supercilious, arrogant and condescending pieces by someone under a whole bunch of names before by the way?

[Ricardo]

It's the bagfuls of shit throwing that worry me,it may catch on like shoe throwing,now that would be a very worrying development.

Funnily enough, 'Throwing the Wellie' (seeing how far one could project a Wellington Boot by brute-force) was a popular sport, in my student days, although I don't recall its having any great political significance.

[marcel.dekorte]

I see the campaign to discredit the 'Red Shirt Democracy Movement' continues unabated, with respect to linkage. Those opposed to this movement are trying to tightly link all protest to the Thaksin financial, thing. Thereby calculating that it will make the protests seem self-serving, and diminishing the over-arching pro-democracy nature of them.

This article refers to, "...small rallies....." Last Sundays Khon kean rally filled to overflowing a 47 Rai chunk of land, 'cheek by jowl' as they say. Anytime the English Language Media plays with numbers concerning this movement, they are doing a great disservice to their readership. Ultimately, it is in no-ones interest to misrepresent the strength and significance of this Movement.

Again, to suggest that many are from the North and North East is probably correct. But by stating this repeatedly, it is again a misrepresentation. The 100,000 plus rallies in BKK almost double in size when the evening BKK crowd arrives. Again, it is in no-one's interest to misrepresent that fact. One fact of the composition of this movement that has never been mentioned to my knowledge, is that it is comprised of approx. 80% female. Without wanting to get into Iran/Thailand protest comparisons (if any), as far as its' composition is concerned, this predominence of females is similar. I have never gotten a satifactory answer to why this is so.

This article references the "excrement' thing, implying that it was a Red Shirt initiative. That has not been proven, but is beside the point. The real issue here is that protests if this type and others can be expected when a non-representational and non-electorally based Government is in place.............Protests happen! Dont anybody be surprised by that. And dont be surprised to see them grow.

Referring to the coup that displaced democratically elected Thaksin as "an incident"........................

To also slavishly refuse to describe this political phenomenon as anything other than by the clothing colours is also editorial agenda. Clothing colours is politically nuetral, whereas using the full title of the UDD or to describe them as "The Red Shirt Democracy Movement" is not and would inform readers accurately.

I will spare you my opinions of Seh Daeng...........without in-depth historical perspective I can understand why he would be demonized. But this is a superficial perspective not indicative of reality.

So folks...the answer.........A transparent, fair election where the voters decide, and not the vote counters, and where both selling AND buying of votes is criminalized and enforced, and where the loser remains the loser.

Simple actually

I totally agree with this post. A well written opinion.

Kind regards,

Marcel de Korte

[MUYTHAI]

To allow foreigner to own land in poor countries is extreme dangerous. As the foreigner can buy half the country or at least the best places, keeping the oringal people without any land. There must be restrictions.

Sure, some restrictions. But Thailand's are over the top. Some foreigners want to buy a small house with land in the provinces to enjoy life here with some ownership security; please tell me how that is a threat to Thailand.

Because those "some foreigners" will grow from ten of thousands of foreigners to hundreds of thousands of foreigners and then to millions of foreigners very quickly. If the laws in Thailand changed over night and foreigners were allowed to buy property, businesses, and live there permanently, there would be millions of foreigners living permanently in Thailand with one year. Anyone who has traveled around various Asian countries and non-Asian countries where foreigners were allowed the purchase land, business, etc. can observe and experience first-hand the damage done to the given societies, cultures, natural envirnment, etc. by the influx of foreigners.

Do you not see the damage done to Thai society where there are high concentrations of foreigners such as in Pattaya, Phuket, areas of BKK, etc. The destruction of traditional Thai culture and the natural environment are plainly evident to anyone who can think and analyse logically and rationally. Simple math> more foreigners = more cultural and environmental damage.

Maybe you prefer Pattaya...most Thais despise it and the foreigners found there.

[Samuian]

"I will spare you my opinions of Seh Daeng...........without in-depth historical perspective I can understand why he would be demonized. But this is a superficial perspective not indicative of reality."

Simple actually

Is that your name Simple Actually? Or is it just reflective of your diatribe? Who may be right, who may be wrong is of no relevance. Red or Yellow. The fact is these are distinctly troubling times. You understandably dismiss the actions of Seh Daeng very easily. There is no way of steadying this loose cannon. The Thai people are now starting to question not only the role of the politicians but the role of the monarchy. When this crutch is removed from Thai society the country could quite easily as Thaksin desires face a civil war which would allow him return in triumph absolved of his sins to reclaim his ill gotten gains. At this moment we as foreigners are just about tolerated. I dread to think what might happen if the Red Revolution comes!

There are forces who love to talk a civil war into reality as you write,

but I doubt very much, regarding the reactions of the citizenry of Bangkok

at the Songkran riots last April, that this is gpoing to happen at the will of the r

ed shirt movement, for this way too many people understand what their movement is all about.

They are at most nothing else then free feeders, very few with an authentic political objection!

What is wrong in this country? look out the window!

99.9 % of it is made up, to stir something, to unsettle the government, to get to mob rule and

to clear the way for Mr.Thaksin's comeback - it's about nothing else!

Street's getting cleaned, airplanes are flying, trains are running, business as ususal!

It's all about ONE mans ill gotten fortunes, his outing,

regarding massive misappropriate handling of his post as a PM, not mentioning abuse of power....and his ego!

And now the courts are to decide what is going to happen with the frozen assets - he claims that they are his "life savings" and his daughter claims that she has made this money from some "pocket money" her mum gave her immediately after she left college, nay, at the time when she was serving behind a McDonalds counter... his driver, no, the gardener, the secretary.. or was it his brother, his son, his cousin, her cousin - NO it was NOBODY - the ghost in the bottle!

The courts are all biased, but where very honest and good when they didn't found anything "wrong" with his asset concealment - where he defended himself [PUBLICLY with "honest mistakes", no lies, nope "MISTAKES" because he had so much, he simply forgot to declare those assets... so they are HIS assets - after all!

[givenall]

yawn!

Agree, must be low day for news.

[Jingthing]

Do you not see the damage done to Thai society where there are high concentrations of foreigners such as in Pattaya, Phuket, areas of BKK, etc. The destruction of traditional Thai culture and the natural environment are plainly evident to anyone who can think and analyse logically and rationally. Simple math> more foreigners = more cultural and environmental damage.

Maybe you prefer Pattaya...most Thais despise it and the foreigners found there.

Congratulations for penning one the most xenophobic posts I have ever read.

[arthurriding]

I see the campaign to discredit the 'Red Shirt Democracy Movement' continues unabated, with respect to linkage. Those opposed to this movement are trying to tightly link all protest to the Thaksin financial, thing. Thereby calculating that it will make the protests seem self-serving, and diminishing the over-arching pro-democracy nature of them.

This article refers to, "...small rallies....." Last Sundays Khon kean rally filled to overflowing a 47 Rai chunk of land, 'cheek by jowl' as they say. Anytime the English Language Media plays with numbers concerning this movement, they are doing a great disservice to their readership. Ultimately, it is in no-ones interest to misrepresent the strength and significance of this Movement.

Again, to suggest that many are from the North and North East is probably correct. But by stating this repeatedly, it is again a misrepresentation. The 100,000 plus rallies in BKK almost double in size when the evening BKK crowd arrives. Again, it is in no-one's interest to misrepresent that fact. One fact of the composition of this movement that has never been mentioned to my knowledge, is that it is comprised of approx. 80% female. Without wanting to get into Iran/Thailand protest comparisons (if any), as far as its' composition is concerned, this predominence of females is similar. I have never gotten a satifactory answer to why this is so.

This article references the "excrement' thing, implying that it was a Red Shirt initiative. That has not been proven, but is beside the point. The real issue here is that protests if this type and others can be expected when a non-representational and non-electorally based Government is in place.............Protests happen! Dont anybody be surprised by that. And dont be surprised to see them grow.

Referring to the coup that displaced democratically elected Thaksin as "an incident"........................

To also slavishly refuse to describe this political phenomenon as anything other than by the clothing colours is also editorial agenda. Clothing colours is politically nuetral, whereas using the full title of the UDD or to describe them as "The Red Shirt Democracy Movement" is not and would inform readers accurately.

I will spare you my opinions of Seh Daeng...........without in-depth historical perspective I can understand why he would be demonized. But this is a superficial perspective not indicative of reality.

So folks...the answer.........A transparent, fair election where the voters decide, and not the vote counters, and where both selling AND buying of votes is criminalized and enforced, and where the loser remains the loser.

Simple actually

What an amazing comment, that the Red Shirt movement is somehow 'democratic' or even has the slightest connection with 'justice'. I would suggest you take off your 'rose coloured spectacles' and look at the reality which is that the Red Shirt movement is one of the most anti-democratic and thuggish groups in Thailand and is as little concerned about democracy as the thug in whose name it continues to protest.

I am not saying that their opponents are necessarily all that much better but the antics of the red shirts' are very reminiscent of the antics of the 'brown shirts' and 'black shirts' in pre WWII Germany. By all means let us have open and fair elections but that has never happened in Thailand yet, and certainly not under Thaksin's previous regime. In order to have 'free and fair' elections which actually mean something, Thailand needs to move beyond the current 'pork barrel' type of politics to one with a free and transparent flow of information where people can make genuine choices.

Maybe I am being pessimistic but I don't see that happening for at least another generation. Meantime all we have in Thailand is politics where the various 'barons' and factions fight it out between themselves with Thaksin being merely one of the more successful of the robber barons. So let's hear no more nonsense about the 'red shirts' as being somehow democratic or some other such silliness. Let's instead bring some reality to the whole situation. From that point maybe some progress can finally be made for things can only really progress once there is a foundation of truth.

Simple really.

[grantbkk]

This is the second "breaking news" story today. The first being some guy at Phuket immigration is moving to Bangkok. Just so I know, what will real breaking news be called from now on? It appears the bar is now set to "any news".

[brianb1944]

To allow foreigner to own land in poor countries is extreme dangerous. As the foreigner can buy half the country or at least the best places, keeping the oringal people without any land. There must be restrictions.

Sure, some restrictions. But Thailand's are over the top. Some foreigners want to buy a small house with land in the provinces to enjoy life here with some ownership security; please tell me how that is a threat to Thailand.

I am with you on this one, how can one enjoy a secure retirement whilst, at the whim of a "nominee", one can be homeless and have no recourse in law for the significant investment lost.

[animatic]

Another day another scare story. It sells news.

Funny to see the thread hijacked in the name of land laws and with so many coming to read the instant demise of Thailand.

Did I spot a superciolious and highly condescending if somewaht il-informed Thai poltics 101 piece by a new member reminiscent of many other supercilious, arrogant and condescending pieces by someone under a whole bunch of names before by the way?

[brianb1944]

[Let's instead bring some reality to the whole situation. From that point maybe some progress can finally be made for things can only really progress once there is a foundation of truth.

Simple really.

Hear hear

[Chris Lawrence]

Take the money and you will be dealing with a bear with a sore head. What about others making money same way?

[Thai at Heart]

To allow foreigner to own land in poor countries is extreme dangerous. As the foreigner can buy half the country or at least the best places, keeping the oringal people without any land. There must be restrictions.

Sure, some restrictions. But Thailand's are over the top. Some foreigners want to buy a small house with land in the provinces to enjoy life here with some ownership security; please tell me how that is a threat to Thailand.

Because those "some foreigners" will grow from ten of thousands of foreigners to hundreds of thousands of foreigners and then to millions of foreigners very quickly. If the laws in Thailand changed over night and foreigners were allowed to buy property, businesses, and live there permanently, there would be millions of foreigners living permanently in Thailand with one year. Anyone who has traveled around various Asian countries and non-Asian countries where foreigners were allowed the purchase land, business, etc. can observe and experience first-hand the damage done to the given societies, cultures, natural envirnment, etc. by the influx of foreigners.

Do you not see the damage done to Thai society where there are high concentrations of foreigners such as in Pattaya, Phuket, areas of BKK, etc. The destruction of traditional Thai culture and the natural environment are plainly evident to anyone who can think and analyse logically and rationally. Simple math> more foreigners = more cultural and environmental damage.

Maybe you prefer Pattaya...most Thais despise it and the foreigners found there.

When you talk about the "influx" of foreigners who live and have brought damage to the countries in the region are you talking about the Chinese immigrant population that has flooded into SE Asia over the last 100 years or so?

I think your understanding of foreigners attached to the tourist industry, the right to purchase land for commercial reasons and the right for a foreign husband or wife to purchase a house and surrounding property in their own name, is extremely confused.

Edited February 3, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[animatic]

We need not demonize General SD Kittiya he seems to shoot his own foot quite nicely all on his own.

If he is the holder of the Democtratic ideals you so swear allegance to,

then why is he threatening on the side of someone who won't serve his simple time in jail.

Historical context: Sea Deng says people will be hurt or killed,

and soon after they DO GET KILLED AND HURT.

He is now threatening the judges deciding on Thaksins money.

How democratic is it to threaten judges?

Rule of Law is part of democracy and Thaksin doesn't follow it's tenets.

For a few red shirt demands for increased democratic methods,

their ACTIONS show a different aim and end game and democratic it isn't.

Oh and PS.

Thaksin wasn't the elected PM when deposed.

Caretaker / Acting PM, and he gave himself that title all on his own.

I have been told that listening to others opinions would make me

"question my basic perspective" yet I do listen, and compare to other info at hand.

Then after due consideration, I find it really changes very little.

Having a differing opinion stated here gives, or often demands, a response articulating

an existing position be added. I can't see a monotheistic TVF,

acused of yellow journalism essentially but can see a limit put in irrational posting

of micro thoughts in ONLY one direction.

Phrases that might influence the general public if chanted won't work with those

who think through matters at length.

Alternative points of view have their place if backed by rational arguments.

If not then they waste space. But space seems cheap enough here.

Some on the other hand just come across as spacey.

Edited February 3, 2010 by animatic

[rainman]

yawn!

How can a democracy "reach it's limits"?

Which "limits" are they exactly?

What democracy? Thailand doesn't have a democracy. It has a government installed by a coup, nothing more.

[rainman]

Historical context: Sea Deng says people will be hurt or killed,

and soon after they DO GET KILLED AND HURT.

He is now threatening the judges deciding on Thaksins money.

How democratic is it to threaten judges?

Rule of Law is part of democracy and Thaksin doesn't follow it's tenets.

Seh Daeng is a nut. That's well established. But how democratic is Thaksin's money trial really? I think we all agree that the verdict was decided before the case even went to court. And all the delays are simply to win time and prevent the red shirts from running amok against the government. I wouldn't be surprised if the February 26th date was extended again.

Thaksin can't really follow the rule of law of democracy in Thailand, because Thailand's democracy died with the coup that installed the current government.

[Jingthing]

yawn!

How can a democracy "reach it's limits"?

Which "limits" are they exactly?

What democracy? Thailand doesn't have a democracy. It has a government installed by a coup, nothing more.

Its not much of democracy. But you are wrong that Abhisit was installed. He wasn't. He formed a government based on a coalition after an election. The coalition parties could have just as easily chosen to side with the Thaksin puppet party and if you remember the time, they almost did.

[AsiaCheese]

....

So folks...the answer.........A transparent, fair election where the voters decide, and not the vote counters, and where both selling AND buying of votes is criminalized and enforced, and where the loser remains the loser.

Simple actually

"Simple" woldn't be the term I'd use. While democracy by majority vote can work (some limits and exceptions apply), everyone's trying to mix apples with bananas here (with "apples" being democracy & "bananas" being Thailand, no pun intended).

If/when the North/North Eastern masses vote, the outcome is likely to be "red". But what's the basis these people vote on? Populist window-dressing from a few years ago, propagated to the present. They don't know better; they're not educated enough to see what they're buying, and they're easy prey for massive marketing machines.

Much of Thailand simply isn't educated enough to fit into a Western understanding of democracy. Message to the PM (then, now, future): boost education, and do it now...

[jdinasia]

yawn!

How can a democracy "reach it's limits"?

Which "limits" are they exactly?

What democracy? Thailand doesn't have a democracy. It has a government installed by a coup, nothing more.

Hmmm I think you never looked at current events in Thailand in the past 4 years. The coup installed one government. Then there was an election that put the current MP's (Members of Parliament) in place. No party got over 50% of the seats in parliament as a result of those elections. The first 2 coalition governments of this election cycle were Thaksin crony party led. The third (that got elected by the same MP's) is the current government.

So .... unless you are saying that Samak and Somchai were put into office by a coup then obviously Abhisit wasn't either.

[slim]

I see the campaign to discredit the 'Red Shirt Democracy Movement' continues unabated, with respect to linkage. Those opposed to this movement are trying to tightly link all protest to the Thaksin financial, thing. Thereby calculating that it will make the protests seem self-serving, and diminishing the over-arching pro-democracy nature of them.

This article refers to, "...small rallies....." Last Sundays Khon kean rally filled to overflowing a 47 Rai chunk of land, 'cheek by jowl' as they say. Anytime the English Language Media plays with numbers concerning this movement, they are doing a great disservice to their readership. Ultimately, it is in no-ones interest to misrepresent the strength and significance of this Movement.

Again, to suggest that many are from the North and North East is probably correct. But by stating this repeatedly, it is again a misrepresentation. The 100,000 plus rallies in BKK almost double in size when the evening BKK crowd arrives. Again, it is in no-one's interest to misrepresent that fact. One fact of the composition of this movement that has never been mentioned to my knowledge, is that it is comprised of approx. 80% female. Without wanting to get into Iran/Thailand protest comparisons (if any), as far as its' composition is concerned, this predominence of females is similar. I have never gotten a satifactory answer to why this is so.

This article references the "excrement' thing, implying that it was a Red Shirt initiative. That has not been proven, but is beside the point. The real issue here is that protests if this type and others can be expected when a non-representational and non-electorally based Government is in place.............Protests happen! Dont anybody be surprised by that. And dont be surprised to see them grow.

Referring to the coup that displaced democratically elected Thaksin as "an incident"........................

To also slavishly refuse to describe this political phenomenon as anything other than by the clothing colours is also editorial agenda. Clothing colours is politically nuetral, whereas using the full title of the UDD or to describe them as "The Red Shirt Democracy Movement" is not and would inform readers accurately.

I will spare you my opinions of Seh Daeng...........without in-depth historical perspective I can understand why he would be demonized. But this is a superficial perspective not indicative of reality.

So folks...the answer.........A transparent, fair election where the voters decide, and not the vote counters, and where both selling AND buying of votes is criminalized and enforced, and where the loser remains the loser.

Simple actually

What an amazing comment, that the Red Shirt movement is somehow 'democratic' or even has the slightest connection with 'justice'. I would suggest you take off your 'rose coloured spectacles' and look at the reality which is that the Red Shirt movement is one of the most anti-democratic and thuggish groups in Thailand and is as little concerned about democracy as the thug in whose name it continues to protest.

I am not saying that their opponents are necessarily all that much better but the antics of the red shirts' are very reminiscent of the antics of the 'brown shirts' and 'black shirts' in pre WWII Germany. By all means let us have open and fair elections but that has never happened in Thailand yet, and certainly not under Thaksin's previous regime. In order to have 'free and fair' elections which actually mean something, Thailand needs to move beyond the current 'pork barrel' type of politics to one with a free and transparent flow of information where people can make genuine choices.

Maybe I am being pessimistic but I don't see that happening for at least another generation. Meantime all we have in Thailand is politics where the various 'barons' and factions fight it out between themselves with Thaksin being merely one of the more successful of the robber barons. So let's hear no more nonsense about the 'red shirts' as being somehow democratic or some other such silliness. Let's instead bring some reality to the whole situation. From that point maybe some progress can finally be made for things can only really progress once there is a foundation of truth.

Simple really.

This post sets the bar to a new level of utter ignorance.

Thaksin won the Jan 2001 General Election by winning 248 of the 500 seats taking 40.6% of the vote. The Democrats won 128 seats with 26.6%

The February 2005 election was won by T.R.T. with the highest voter turnout in Thai history - Thaksin's party winning 375 of the 500 seats with 60.7% of the electorate voting for him.

The election of April 2006 where Thai Ruk Thai was unopposed saw Thaksin win 460 seats winning 61% of the valid votes.

Following the declaration that this election was illegal, intervention by the military, the enforced disbanding of T.R.T. and Thaksins self imposed exile the December 2007 general election with the T.R.T. now standing as the P.P.P. saw the P.P.P. win 233 of the 500 seats with the Democrats behind (again) with 165.

These results speak for themselves. The voice of the people of Thailand is NOT being heard. The current government has NO mandate from the people to govern even though their right to govern is legitimate (with coalitions).

Its time Thailand called for new, open and fair elections to let the people decide once and for all.

Regrettably as the courts, the military and the upper/middle class of Bangkok are desperate for this not to happen Thailand's political problems will continue

[rainman]

yawn!

How can a democracy "reach it's limits"?

Which "limits" are they exactly?

What democracy? Thailand doesn't have a democracy. It has a government installed by a coup, nothing more.

Its not much of democracy. But you are wrong that Abhisit was installed. He wasn't. He formed a government based on a coalition after an election. The coalition parties could have just as easily chosen to side with the Thaksin puppet party and if you remember the time, they almost did.

So Abhisit isn't a puppet? Don't you think he would never have been allowed to become PM if he wasn't a puppet? Thailand isn't governed by the PM. In the last election, Thaksin's party won 199 seats in parliament, while the Democrats won only 132. They're only in the majority because they crawled up the butt of all the smaller parties that had 8% of the vote or less. And let's be honest here, nearly all of these parties were pro-Thaksin before the 'switch'. So people thought they're voting for the small parties, but they're voting for allies of Thaksin. In the end, the people got a 'bait and switch'. So why are new elections not being held? Quite simple. The Democrats know they will lose the next election by a landslide because people won't vote for the small parties anymore, and definitely not for the Democrats.

There was an interesting poll conducted in Bangkok a few weeks ago, that showed that more than 50% of the people in Bangkok would vote for Puea Thai in the next election. And yes, in Bangkok ..not in the north/north-east. I'll try and find it. I believe it was by Chula University.

[Acharn]

,snip>

This article refers to, "...small rallies....." Last Sundays Khon kean rally filled to overflowing a 47 Rai chunk of land, 'cheek by jowl' as they say. Anytime the English Language Media plays with numbers concerning this movement, they are doing a great disservice to their readership. Ultimately, it is in no-ones interest to misrepresent the strength and significance of this Movement.

Again, to suggest that many are from the North and North East is probably correct. But by stating this repeatedly, it is again a misrepresentation. The 100,000 plus rallies in BKK almost double in size when the evening BKK crowd arrives. Again, it is in no-one's interest to misrepresent that fact.

<snip>

Well, obviously they think it is very much in their interest to try to fool outsiders that the Red Shirt movement is not very important. They fear that if foreign investors knew how strong popular feeling really is they would be frightened to invest here now. It doesn't matter inside Thailand, because not very many Thais read the English language press anyway, and anybody who's curious can find out the truth by talking to any taxi driver or noodle stall lady.

It is good to be aware, though, just how much the English language newspapers lie to make Thaksin look worse, especially The Nation. Sometimes I think they lie just out of habit. I was quite astonished to see them admit above that the PAD are "ultra-royalist." I think a reporter probably slipped something past the editor.

[tonywebster]

To allow foreigner to own land in poor countries is extreme dangerous. As the foreigner can buy half the country or at least the best places, keeping the oringal people without any land. There must be restrictions.

Sure, some restrictions. But Thailand's are over the top. Some foreigners want to buy a small house with land in the provinces to enjoy life here with some ownership security; please tell me how that is a threat to Thailand.

the ideal would be a fixed reasonable size for a house with garden, but stop foreigners buying two plots next to each other to stop them amassing too much land on one plot

[Scott]

Let's try to stay roughly on topic and I realize an opinion piece has wider parameters than some articles. . One post was deleted because of playing around with names of people in the article. Please don't do that.

The topic isn't about foreign ownership of land.

Thanks.

[grayfield18]

I see the campaign to discredit the 'Red Shirt Democracy Movement' continues unabated, with respect to linkage. Those opposed to this movement are trying to tightly link all protest to the Thaksin financial, thing. Thereby calculating that it will make the protests seem self-serving, and diminishing the over-arching pro-democracy nature of them.

This article refers to, "...small rallies....." Last Sundays Khon kean rally filled to overflowing a 47 Rai chunk of land, 'cheek by jowl' as they say. Anytime the English Language Media plays with numbers concerning this movement, they are doing a great disservice to their readership. Ultimately, it is in no-ones interest to misrepresent the strength and significance of this Movement.

Again, to suggest that many are from the North and North East is probably correct. But by stating this repeatedly, it is again a misrepresentation. The 100,000 plus rallies in BKK almost double in size when the evening BKK crowd arrives. Again, it is in no-one's interest to misrepresent that fact. One fact of the composition of this movement that has never been mentioned to my knowledge, is that it is comprised of approx. 80% female. Without wanting to get into Iran/Thailand protest comparisons (if any), as far as its' composition is concerned, this predominence of females is similar. I have never gotten a satifactory answer to why this is so.

This article references the "excrement' thing, implying that it was a Red Shirt initiative. That has not been proven, but is beside the point. The real issue here is that protests if this type and others can be expected when a non-representational and non-electorally based Government is in place.............Protests happen! Dont anybody be surprised by that. And dont be surprised to see them grow.

Referring to the coup that displaced democratically elected Thaksin as "an incident"........................

To also slavishly refuse to describe this political phenomenon as anything other than by the clothing colours is also editorial agenda. Clothing colours is politically nuetral, whereas using the full title of the UDD or to describe them as "The Red Shirt Democracy Movement" is not and would inform readers accurately.

I will spare you my opinions of Seh Daeng...........without in-depth historical perspective I can understand why he would be demonized. But this is a superficial perspective not indicative of reality.

So folks...the answer.........A transparent, fair election where the voters decide, and not the vote counters, and where both selling AND buying of votes is criminalized and enforced, and where the loser remains the loser.

Simple actually

Well said i am sick and tired of the anti Thaksin comments on this site. I don't mind them being anti Thaksin, that is an individual choice. I believe in democracy and regardless of the things Thaksin did or did not do, he was overthrown by a military dictatorship. They draw up a constitution that tries it's best to be anti his supporters but a pro-Thaksin Government gets elected. Then they destroy it one by one till the others can put together a loose coalition who are not pro-Thaksin.

Thaksin made the huge fortune he has BEFORE he was in any form of power. I have no trust in the court to do what they should do and refuse to confiscate the money.

[animatic]

This article refers to, "...small rallies....." Last Sundays Khon kean rally filled to overflowing a 47 Rai chunk of land, 'cheek by jowl' as they say. Anytime the English Language Media plays with numbers concerning this movement, they are doing a great disservice to their readership. Ultimately, it is in no-ones interest to misrepresent the strength and significance of this Movement.

Photos please.

The reports said 4 to 7 rai, not 47 rai.

And unless pictures show tooth by jowl in a huge area it's only hyperbole.

47 rai of red shirts and no aerial photo taken to show this POWER!!.

Someone in the PR department is slipping up me thinks.

or it just didn't happen.

Of course the Red side plan is to scare some of Thaksins money back into his hands

and so inflating the numbers can look scarier.

As to democratic desires, well as long as Thaksin appears to be front and center

in red timing and actions ideology, those democratic ideals arenothing more than

a patina overlaid and won't get a fair hearing...

Thaksin must retire the field of the Reds want real, and serious influence in Thailand.