Thaksin's Children 'Not Dad's Nominees'

[webfact]

THAKSIN'S BT76BN SEIZURE TRIAL

'Not dad's nominees'

By Thanong Khanthong

The Nation

Published on February 11, 2010

BANGKOK: -- Thaksin's children Panthongtae and Pintongta tell court they were the shareholders in Shin Corp before firm was sold to Temasek Holdings of Singapore

The court drama in the Bt76-billion assets-seizure case against former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra is about to come to a close.

Panthongtae Shinawatra and Pinthongta Shinawatra yesterday produced a 130-page argument before the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Political Office Holders as part of their concluding statement. They once again asserted that they were the actual shareholders in Shin Corp before the sale to Temasek Holdings of Singapore.

Their combined holdings were worth Bt40 billion. Most importantly, they were not acting as nominees for their parents, they argued.

Earlier, both Thaksin Shinawatra and his ex-wife Pojaman na Pombejra launched a similar defence, amplifying their cases that they had transferred their shares in Shin Corp to their children and siblings well before Thaksin entered politics in 2000. In return for the share transfers, they were paid through promissory notes in instalments.

Before the sale of Shin Corp to Temasek on January 23, 2006, Panthongtae owned 9.8 per cent in the telecom holding company, while his sister Pinthongta had 14.67 per cent. Bhanapot Damapong, Pojaman's elder brother, held 13.49 per cent worth almost Bt20 billion in Shin Corp, compared to 0.67 per cent by Yingluck Shinawatra, Thaksin's sister.

Ample Rich Investment, Thaksin's offshore firm, held about 10.98 per cent in Shin Corp. Thaksin claimed later that he had set up this offshore company in preparation to take Shin Corp for listing in the Nasdaq in the United States.

Panthongtae and Pinthongta also emerged as beneficiary owners in Ample Rich Investment, sold to them by Thaksin for US$1 (Bt33).

Public prosecutors have argued that the combined 49-per-cent stake in Shin Corp still belonged to Thaksin and Pojaman on January 23, 2006 when the family sold the stake to Temasek for Bt67.7 billion plus a gain of another Bt6.89 billion in dividend payments.

After the military coup on September 19, 2006, the military regime set up the Assets Examination Committee to probe alleged policy corruption by Thaksin.

The AEC ordered a freeze of Bt76 billion of the Shinawatra family, pending the outcome of the suit charging that Thaksin had become unusually wealthy from policy corruption.

The AEC took pains to uncover evidence that the transfer of the shares of Shin Corp from Thaksin and Pojaman to Panthongtae, Pinthongta, Bhanapot and Yingluck represented a cover-up. The four did not use their own money to acquire the shares, at times at par value, from Thaksin and Pojaman.

Payments were also made in promissory notes, the money for which also came from Thaksin or Pojaman in one way or another. Even though technically Pojaman did not hold any Shin Corp stocks, she still received dividend pay-outs from the company, which transferred the money into her bank accounts.

Pojaman transferred Shin Corp shares to Bhanapot at par without paying tax.

Thaksin's transfer of shares to his children, Panthongtae and Pinthongta, were not taxed either, nor the transfer of shares to his sister, Yingluck.

The four recipients of Shin Corp stocks had not realised the monetary gain by selling them out.

No taxmen were present when there were transactions of shares between the British Virgin Islands-registered Ample Rich Investments and Thaksin and Panthongtae and Pinthongta. Thaksin sold Ample Rich, which owned 392 million shares in Shin Corp, to Panthongtae for only $1.

While not yet making any profit from the shares, the four beneficiaries should not pay taxes for non-existent benefits.

Yet, when they sold a combined 49 per cent of the shares to Temasek via the stock market, they did not pay any tax because no tax is levied on stock-market transactions.

The Supreme Court will hand down the verdict on February 26 as to whether Thaksin had concealed his shares through his children and siblings.

If Thaksin were to be found guilty of share concealment, the court would then rule on whether he had committed corruption by introducing policies to benefit the stocks of Shin Corp.

-- The Nation 2010-02-11

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[Donnyboy]

produced a 130-page argument

thats one long fairy tale

[poleax]

How is all this any different than what occurs within any 'moneyed' family.

Just another "double standards" thing. Like yesterday's story about fundraising. Fundraising within any other political organization or for any other ambitious politician is accepted as the norm. But the biased Domestic Media tries to use this process within the Red Shirt Democracy Movement as some sort of questionable tactic.

Double standards folks.... nothing more, nothing less!

Any super rich Papa will move money around within his family. If you are one of those, who would you move your money around to, other than your family. Ya going to give it to someone else....I dont think so.............other than your Mianoi or secret wife. Many rich papa's do that. They attack Thaksin but dont look at themselves........double standards all over the place.

But this was Thaksin, and he needed to be attacked in order to protect the interests of others. Democratic principles be dammed!

If they hadn't attacked him this way, it would have been another.

So who are the "others' whose interests were threatened?

I learned a new Thai word yesterday probably well known to others more experienced than this naiive dolt. It addresses this question in part, and adds common knowledge understanding. It summarizes the dynamics of all this very well:

"Amartayathipatai" - The rule of the aristocrats and elite, and necessity to return state power to the people

Edited February 11, 2010 by poleax

[Siripon]

How is all this any different than what occurs within any 'moneyed' family.

But this was Thaksin, and he needed to be attacked in order to protect the interests of others. Democratic principles be dammed!

If they hadn't attacked him this way, it would have been another.

So who are the "others' whose interests were threatened?

I learned a new Thai word yesterday that addresses this question in part, and adds common knowledge understanding. It summarizes the dynamics of all this very well:

"Amartayathipatai" - The rule of the aristocrats and elite, and necessity to return state power to the people

You must be very new to Thai politics if you've just discovered this word, it's been bandied about by the red shirts for nearly a year now.

Thaksin is different to other families because he was the PM as well as the owner of very large businesses with government contracts.

An enormous conflict of interest.

[poleax]

Siripon - so other previous PM's did not move their estate to other family members. And other very senior Politicians, even in today's Government, are not moving there zillions amongst their own family members, and engaged in similar 'prejudicial practices'

No matter who or where. Families will protect their financial assets....whether they are in Government or out.

Double standards no matter how you loook at it.

One correction to my Post #3.

I was unfair to the biased Domestic Media.

Yesterday's condemnatory articles about Red Shirt democracy Movement fundraising were actually initiated by Suthep and friends, and the media simply reported them..........albeit sympathetically.

Edited February 11, 2010 by poleax

[brahmburgers]

It brings to mind the ending of The Wizard of Oz where the little old man behind the curtain, who was controlling the giant awesome display (the ruse against Thailand, in this case), ...the man (the Shinawats and their lawyers) kept shouting 'Pay no mind to the man behind the curtain.'

In other words, don't look at us, the manipulators - just look at the big glowing image of rightousness we're projecting.

It also brings to mind Hans Christian Anderson's story; The Emperor's New Clothes. The little boy, who was the only person who had the audacity to state what would have been obvious to anyone with unbiased thinking; 'the emperor has no clothes!'.

In this case, the boy represents the portion of the Thai public who can see that Thaksin and his family are lying and cheating to the 10th degree. Anyone who doesn't see it, is duped by the elaborate charade being put on by the Shinawat family.

Thaksin got away with hiding assets when he first because PM (even tho it was obvious to any reasonable person) because a majority of the high court judges didn't want to rock the boat for a newly elected and popular politician. Now the same court wants to do the right thing regarding a just decision, and perhaps get back at being duped by Thaksin (the man operating the Wizard of Oz from behind the curtain) 8 years ago.

Ms Pojamin, her kids and her lawyers can be expected to say any darn thing they can to get their hands on the money. However, the more they speak, the more ludicrous their arguments. One day saying the money was theirs, but..... the next day saying the money was not theirs. One side of their mouths saying they were rich, the other side of their mouths saying they really didn't own anything (but still gained dividends). Interesting that, during all the testimony by the defense, it doesn't appear any of it denies there were no taxes paid each time gobs of money changed hands among the Shinawats.

If someone had written this as a story, 10 years ago, and submitted it to be published, any publisher would have laughed and pushed it aside as being absolutely too unbelievable.

[givenall]

produced a 130-page argument

thats one long fairy tale

All it means it is they all admit to be part of a big family business run like mafia family, all involve in the corruption and money laundry

[ratcatcher]

What is happening here is the opening of a very large "can of worms", the evil layer of corruption that plagues all societies at certain levels and particularly the Thais.

Mr.Thaksin just happens to be a "very big, stinking, juicy worm" that has been pulled out and now is wriiggling for his life so to speak.

Hopefully, and perhaps naiively to think this, many further worms will be pulled out in future so that there are less double standards in the future. One can but hope.

However life ain't always fair and in Thaksin's case, he is reaping what he sowed.

[hammered]

This is Asia. Family, business, individual. All understand exactly how it works until the day there is a familial split usually over inheritance.

At some time the first example has to be made and then hopefully a lot more follow. Whether this case is/will be the first time remains to be seen

[steffi]

Is the practice of transferring shares at other than par value still allowed?

What changes have been made to the law to prevent others from doing this in the future?

If his kids are found to be nominees will they be found guilty of conspiring to hide assets?

Were the shares they claim to own prior purchased thru the exchange?

This is Asia. Family, business, individual. All understand exactly how it works until the day there is a familial split usually over inheritance.

At some time the first example has to be made and then hopefully a lot more follow. Whether this case is/will be the first time remains to be seen

[givenall]

What is happening here is the opening of a very large "can of worms", the evil layer of corruption that plagues all societies at certain levels and particularly the Thais.

Mr.Thaksin just happens to be a "very big, stinking, juicy worm" that has been pulled out and now is wriiggling for his life so to speak.

Hopefully, and perhaps naiively to think this, many further worms will be pulled out in future so that there are less double standards in the future. One can but hope.

However life ain't always fair and in Thaksin's case, he is reaping what he sowed.

What do you think Thaksin would do for past 2 going on 3 years if he knew the result of all his action? Would he be more consolatory , or is he very stupid and arrogant and would do the same thing

[ratcatcher]

What is happening here is the opening of a very large "can of worms", the evil layer of corruption that plagues all societies at certain levels and particularly the Thais.

Mr.Thaksin just happens to be a "very big, stinking, juicy worm" that has been pulled out and now is wriiggling for his life so to speak.

Hopefully, and perhaps naiively to think this, many further worms will be pulled out in future so that there are less double standards in the future. One can but hope.

However life ain't always fair and in Thaksin's case, he is reaping what he sowed.

What do you think Thaksin would do for past 2 going on 3 years if he knew the result of all his action? Would he be more consolatory , or is he very stupid and arrogant and would do the same thing

Having seen his actions and heard his words since he fled the country, I am inclined to think that he would do the same thing. Arrogant - Overweening? Very. Stupid? Stupid is as stupid does.Lots of poor judgement recently.

[h90]

What is happening here is the opening of a very large "can of worms", the evil layer of corruption that plagues all societies at certain levels and particularly the Thais.

Mr.Thaksin just happens to be a "very big, stinking, juicy worm" that has been pulled out and now is wriiggling for his life so to speak.

Hopefully, and perhaps naiively to think this, many further worms will be pulled out in future so that there are less double standards in the future. One can but hope.

However life ain't always fair and in Thaksin's case, he is reaping what he sowed.

What do you think Thaksin would do for past 2 going on 3 years if he knew the result of all his action? Would he be more consolatory , or is he very stupid and arrogant and would do the same thing

Having seen his actions and heard his words since he fled the country, I am inclined to think that he would do the same thing. Arrogant - Overweening? Very. Stupid? Stupid is as stupid does.Lots of poor judgement recently.

I see more a kind of mental problem, really loosing track on the reality.

[nakachalet]

poleax

did you remember once upon a time there was a thai pm whose name is CHUAN LEAK-PAI....?

he and his family live about 5 min from my wife's rubber plantation in the south....

he never did transfer any million or zillion to his family members nor any other high ranking officials around him....

he was educated in a wat school (thai temple educational school named Wat KuanVeeSate in trang, south thailand)....

as far as i could recall, he was the least corruptable pm in thai history....

it was sad that thailand was not ready to support that style of honesty in high places....

as paul harvey often said.... and you know the rest of the story....

Siripon - so other previous PM's did not move their estate to other family members. And other very senior Politicians, even in today's Government, are not moving there zillions amongst their own family members, and engaged in similar 'prejudicial practices'

No matter who or where. Families will protect their financial assets....whether they are in Government or out.

Double standards no matter how you loook at it.

One correction to my Post #3.

I was unfair to the biased Domestic Media.

Yesterday's condemnatory articles about Red Shirt democracy Movement fundraising were actually initiated by Suthep and friends, and the media simply reported them..........albeit sympathetically.

[givenall]

What is happening here is the opening of a very large "can of worms", the evil layer of corruption that plagues all societies at certain levels and particularly the Thais.

Mr.Thaksin just happens to be a "very big, stinking, juicy worm" that has been pulled out and now is wriiggling for his life so to speak.

Hopefully, and perhaps naiively to think this, many further worms will be pulled out in future so that there are less double standards in the future. One can but hope.

However life ain't always fair and in Thaksin's case, he is reaping what he sowed.

What do you think Thaksin would do for past 2 going on 3 years if he knew the result of all his action? Would he be more consolatory , or is he very stupid and arrogant and would do the same thing

Having seen his actions and heard his words since he fled the country, I am inclined to think that he would do the same thing. Arrogant - Overweening? Very. Stupid? Stupid is as stupid does.Lots of poor judgement recently.

I see more a kind of mental problem, really loosing track on the reality.

I really think after a while these kind of people think they are god and nothing can touch them. It happened in Iran, in Panama, and most places that they have had dictatorial power and they did same when they sere overthrown

[h90]

poleax

did you remember once upon a time there was a thai pm whose name is CHUAN LEAK-PAI....?

he and his family live about 5 min from my wife's rubber plantation in the south....

he never did transfer any million or zillion to his family members nor any other high ranking officials around him....

he was educated in a wat school (thai temple educational school named Wat KuanVeeSate in trang, south thailand)....

as far as i could recall, he was the least corruptable pm in thai history....

it was sad that thailand was not ready to support that style of honesty in high places....

as paul harvey often said.... and you know the rest of the story....

Siripon - so other previous PM's did not move their estate to other family members. And other very senior Politicians, even in today's Government, are not moving there zillions amongst their own family members, and engaged in similar 'prejudicial practices'

No matter who or where. Families will protect their financial assets....whether they are in Government or out.

Double standards no matter how you loook at it.

One correction to my Post #3.

I was unfair to the biased Domestic Media.

Yesterday's condemnatory articles about Red Shirt democracy Movement fundraising were actually initiated by Suthep and friends, and the media simply reported them..........albeit sympathetically.

He walked into his office, without expensive cars and 20 bodyguards around him.

[hammered]

poleax

did you remember once upon a time there was a thai pm whose name is CHUAN LEAK-PAI....?

he and his family live about 5 min from my wife's rubber plantation in the south....

he never did transfer any million or zillion to his family members nor any other high ranking officials around him....

he was educated in a wat school (thai temple educational school named Wat KuanVeeSate in trang, south thailand)....

as far as i could recall, he was the least corruptable pm in thai history....

it was sad that thailand was not ready to support that style of honesty in high places....

as paul harvey often said.... and you know the rest of the story....

Siripon - so other previous PM's did not move their estate to other family members. And other very senior Politicians, even in today's Government, are not moving there zillions amongst their own family members, and engaged in similar 'prejudicial practices'

No matter who or where. Families will protect their financial assets....whether they are in Government or out.

Double standards no matter how you loook at it.

One correction to my Post #3.

I was unfair to the biased Domestic Media.

Yesterday's condemnatory articles about Red Shirt democracy Movement fundraising were actually initiated by Suthep and friends, and the media simply reported them..........albeit sympathetically.

He walked into his office, without expensive cars and 20 bodyguards around him.

He lived in a modest old fashioned rented house on Soi Morleng and had a car and driver take him to work. Sometimes there was a polcieman outside the house sometimes there wasnt. Everybody knew where he lived. He was the only Thai PM I rememeber to be able to speak the Isaan dialect as he had spent time there as a temple boy. Unpretentious guy, no ego, not corrupt etc and interesting compared to all who have come after who have been from very boring upper middle to high class backgrounds. He also was the first Thai PM to insist on the military having to put up with a civilain defence minister against their wishes

However he was found boring as a PM by the Thai people particularly who liked more colourful characters. He also had the misfortune of being PM after two very disturbing events and having to sort the mess out in both cases: The divisive post 92 stuff and the aftermath of the disastrous Chavalit led defence of the baht and what came after. A tetsement to how well he did is the surplus he left for Thaksin to use on his piopulaist policies when he came to power.

It was also the freest time ever for free speech in Thailand and the social controls had not been introduced. Chuan was the last PM of the very short period when Thailand was at the freest it had ever been.

[Thai at Heart]

Before the sale of Shin Corp to Temasek on January 23, 2006, Panthongtae owned 9.8 per cent in the telecom holding company, while his sister Pinthongta had 14.67 per cent.

I find this interesting as it is so contrary to the normal way that many Asians, particularly Sino-Thais, run family businesses in that the #1 son was not in possession of the lion's share of a family business and instead the lead position was bestowed upon "little sis." It was evident in a dramatic fashion when Panthongtae was found to be the richest stockholder on the SET for the whole of Thailand a few years back. What is it about Oaf that Dad doesn't trust him with the family's accounts to the point he bucks generations of tradition and entrusts his daughter more?

One could say that it shows he wasn't slavishly going to follow the expected path, simply to keep his son happy. Or, that he knows his son more than well enough and that he realised that p**s ups and breweries were a good analogy.

I think you are also understating the power of women in Sino-Thai business culture.

[Samuian]

Sure, it is so immensely obvious that they weren't just nominees as Samak and "little" Somchai weren't and the set up of the UDD isn't!

It's certainly so, clearly visible to anyone, clearly!

But before I buy this story I prefer to believe in the Easter bunny!

Edited February 11, 2010 by Samuian

[poleax]

A series of Posts on the honesty of Chuan Leak-Pai, as a counterpoint to my assertion that all wealthy families protect the "crown jewels".......of wealth, I mean (ahem).

Now for the rest of the story as Paul Harvie used to say, and referenced above:

This image of poverty by the gentlemen referenced is just that......Image.

No-body believe.

>His brother is the largest land-owner in the South - Tran Province.

>His wife is a huge land owner in Chiang Mai

>His teenage son drive a hugely expensive car, while daddy pretend to be poor in his beat-up old jeep

Isn't it strange that wife, brother, teenage son display wealth, while he projects an 'image' of poverty.

I could go to great length on how those engaged in Politics also engage in image creation to project a certain personea (sp?). Suffice it to say, this is the case with none other than Mr. Chuan Leak-Pai.

How is that he is so poor, and all his significant-others are something else.

Pretensions and image creation folks.

I stand by my Post #5

Just some more inconsequential drivel from the Pole.

[Thai at Heart]

A series of Posts on the honesty of Chuan Leak-Pai, as a counterpoint to my assertion that all wealthy families protect the "crown jewels".......of wealth, I mean (ahem).

Now for the rest of the story as Paul Harvie used to say, and referenced above:

This image of poverty by the gentlemen referenced is just that......Image.

No-body believe.

>His brother is the largest land-owner in the South - Tran Province.

>His wife is a huge land owner in Chiang Mai

>His teenage son drive a hugely expensive car, while daddy pretend to be poor in his beat-up old jeep

Isn't it strange that wife, brother, teenage son display wealth, while he projects an 'image' of poverty.

I could go to great length on how those engaged in Politics also engage in image creation to project a certain personea (sp?). Suffice it to say, this is the case with none other than Mr. Chuan Leak-Pai.

How is that he is so poor, and all his significant-others are something else.

Pretensions and image creation folks.

I stand by my Post #5

Just some more inconsequential drivel from the Pole.

Would have to agree with you there. Met him once, he was a nice enough bloke, but indeed, not quite as poverty stricken as his public image would have us believe. But then again, Thai politics is a soap opera of the grandest order, and he has played his poor guy done well role very well.

Edited February 11, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[scorecard]

poleax

did you remember once upon a time there was a thai pm whose name is CHUAN LEAK-PAI....?

he and his family live about 5 min from my wife's rubber plantation in the south....

he never did transfer any million or zillion to his family members nor any other high ranking officials around him....

he was educated in a wat school (thai temple educational school named Wat KuanVeeSate in trang, south thailand)....

as far as i could recall, he was the least corruptable pm in thai history....

it was sad that thailand was not ready to support that style of honesty in high places....

as paul harvey often said.... and you know the rest of the story....

Siripon - so other previous PM's did not move their estate to other family members. And other very senior Politicians, even in today's Government, are not moving there zillions amongst their own family members, and engaged in similar 'prejudicial practices'

No matter who or where. Families will protect their financial assets....whether they are in Government or out.

Double standards no matter how you loook at it.

One correction to my Post #3.

I was unfair to the biased Domestic Media.

Yesterday's condemnatory articles about Red Shirt democracy Movement fundraising were actually initiated by Suthep and friends, and the media simply reported them..........albeit sympathetically.

He walked into his office, without expensive cars and 20 bodyguards around him.

He lived in a modest old fashioned rented house on Soi Morleng and had a car and driver take him to work. Sometimes there was a polcieman outside the house sometimes there wasnt. Everybody knew where he lived. He was the only Thai PM I rememeber to be able to speak the Isaan dialect as he had spent time there as a temple boy. Unpretentious guy, no ego, not corrupt etc and interesting compared to all who have come after who have been from very boring upper middle to high class backgrounds. He also was the first Thai PM to insist on the military having to put up with a civilain defence minister against their wishes

However he was found boring as a PM by the Thai people particularly who liked more colourful characters. He also had the misfortune of being PM after two very disturbing events and having to sort the mess out in both cases: The divisive post 92 stuff and the aftermath of the disastrous Chavalit led defence of the baht and what came after. A tetsement to how well he did is the surplus he left for Thaksin to use on his piopulaist policies when he came to power.

It was also the freest time ever for free speech in Thailand and the social controls had not been introduced. Chuan was the last PM of the very short period when Thailand was at the freest it had ever been.

I agree with much of this post expect for one word and I think it's worthwhile to mention.

The poster says the Thai people found Khun Chuan "boring". I suggest the correct words are "too slow". It was very public knowledge that he questioned and re-questioned every tiny detail of everything.

Given the previous history of corruption and graft and abuse of powers etc., which went before him, and his stated aims of no corruption etc., I guess he was trying very hard to weed out anything which was even slightly suspect.

I can recall when he was PM that many many Thais would comment:

- 'he's a good man, he's clean, he's anti-corruption, he's done good things, but he's too slow and there are so many things which need attention'.

[landofthefree]

How is all this any different than what occurs within any 'moneyed' family.

But this was Thaksin, and he needed to be attacked in order to protect the interests of others. Democratic principles be dammed!

If they hadn't attacked him this way, it would have been another.

So who are the "others' whose interests were threatened?

I learned a new Thai word yesterday that addresses this question in part, and adds common knowledge understanding. It summarizes the dynamics of all this very well:

"Amartayathipatai" - The rule of the aristocrats and elite, and necessity to return state power to the people

You must be very new to Thai politics if you've just discovered this word, it's been bandied about by the red shirts for nearly a year now.

Thaksin is different to other families because he was the PM as well as the owner of very large businesses with government contracts.

An enormous conflict of interest.

'an enormous conflict of interest' same same as being Prime Minister and also being a pupet for the Military

TIT

[hammered]

I agree with much of this post expect for one word and I think it's worthwhile to mention.

The poster says the Thai people found Khun Chuan "boring". I suggest the correct words are "too slow". It was very public knowledge that he questioned and re-questioned every tiny detail of everything.

Given the previous history of corruption and graft and abuse of powers etc., which went before him, and his stated aims of no corruption etc., I guess he was trying very hard to weed out anything which was even slightly suspect.

I can recall when he was PM that many many Thais would comment:

- 'he's a good man, he's clean, he's anti-corruption, he's done good things, but he's too slow and there are so many things which need attention'.

Accurate enough. The final irony being that if he had spent the huge surplus he built up the election outcome may have been different an deven if it werent the reputation of Thaksin would certainly have been. His own inaction undid or at least contributed to his parties electoral downturn and passed on the means for Thaksin to establish himself as a populist politician. Somewhere in there is the opportunity for someone to do a PhD if inclinded to academic minutae

[Samuian]

I agree with much of this post expect for one word and I think it's worthwhile to mention.

The poster says the Thai people found Khun Chuan "boring". I suggest the correct words are "too slow". It was very public knowledge that he questioned and re-questioned every tiny detail of everything.

Given the previous history of corruption and graft and abuse of powers etc., which went before him, and his stated aims of no corruption etc., I guess he was trying very hard to weed out anything which was even slightly suspect.

I can recall when he was PM that many many Thais would comment:

- 'he's a good man, he's clean, he's anti-corruption, he's done good things, but he's too slow and there are so many things which need attention'.

Right, absolutely right - his coined nickname became the "Ditherer" and guess who had minted this "coin"...?

...and yes the "land scandal" he, Chuan, stepped down...on the allegations!

This adds... to his favor!

[Old Man River]

Siripon - so other previous PM's did not move their estate to other family members. And other very senior Politicians, even in today's Government, are not moving there zillions amongst their own family members, and engaged in similar 'prejudicial practices'

No matter who or where. Families will protect their financial assets....whether they are in Government or out.

While we can be sure they do protect themselves, they don't wait just a few months before taking office to plan this out and certainly don't "donate" assets to their maids and drivers and then go to into court and swear it isn't theirs. Also, they don't pass laws that clearly are meant to increase the value of these assets they just got rid of. The fact is, everything about this is messy, including the offshore accounts. The whole thing was done so blatantly illegal that it is impossible for anyone to look the other way.

[nakachalet]

hammered

thx very much for your augmentation on the good old man chuen ....

sometimes i feel like i am the only old fool among the many upcoming younger more idealistic brothers and sisters in this land of ease and comfort.... and yes, it is still the land of the free--pretty much free as in freedom for most anyway.... LOL

thx for the old time sake.... LOL

if and when when you come down south, let's have a toast in that old house of his.... maybe he might even join us if he is in town.... LOL

poleax

did you remember once upon a time there was a thai pm whose name is CHUAN LEAK-PAI....?

he and his family live about 5 min from my wife's rubber plantation in the south....

he never did transfer any million or zillion to his family members nor any other high ranking officials around him....

he was educated in a wat school (thai temple educational school named Wat KuanVeeSate in trang, south thailand)....

as far as i could recall, he was the least corruptable pm in thai history....

it was sad that thailand was not ready to support that style of honesty in high places....

as paul harvey often said.... and you know the rest of the story....

Siripon - so other previous PM's did not move their estate to other family members. And other very senior Politicians, even in today's Government, are not moving there zillions amongst their own family members, and engaged in similar 'prejudicial practices'

No matter who or where. Families will protect their financial assets....whether they are in Government or out.

Double standards no matter how you loook at it.

One correction to my Post #3.

I was unfair to the biased Domestic Media.

Yesterday's condemnatory articles about Red Shirt democracy Movement fundraising were actually initiated by Suthep and friends, and the media simply reported them..........albeit sympathetically.

He walked into his office, without expensive cars and 20 bodyguards around him.

He lived in a modest old fashioned rented house on Soi Morleng and had a car and driver take him to work. Sometimes there was a polcieman outside the house sometimes there wasnt. Everybody knew where he lived. He was the only Thai PM I rememeber to be able to speak the Isaan dialect as he had spent time there as a temple boy. Unpretentious guy, no ego, not corrupt etc and interesting compared to all who have come after who have been from very boring upper middle to high class backgrounds. He also was the first Thai PM to insist on the military having to put up with a civilain defence minister against their wishes

However he was found boring as a PM by the Thai people particularly who liked more colourful characters. He also had the misfortune of being PM after two very disturbing events and having to sort the mess out in both cases: The divisive post 92 stuff and the aftermath of the disastrous Chavalit led defence of the baht and what came after. A tetsement to how well he did is the surplus he left for Thaksin to use on his piopulaist policies when he came to power.

It was also the freest time ever for free speech in Thailand and the social controls had not been introduced. Chuan was the last PM of the very short period when Thailand was at the freest it had ever been.

[poleax]

Nakachalet....thx. for the repeat exposure to 4 previous posts...

The tour was interesting, however, you just stopped short.....ya should have added post #21....

"The cherry on the cake" so to speak.

dam_n, that Pole is annoying!

[slapout]

This topic seems to have gone the way of so many, off topic, bs, smokescreen, of opinions/thoughts which have nothing to do with original subject matter. One of the problems would appear that several defendants (if that is a proper term) seem to be missing a characteristic of a good liar ( the brains to remember what you said in the past on a specific subject)

[nakachalet]

hi poleax

pls do not be too serious on thaivisa, everyone could civilly state his/her opinion.... some members may agree with you, while others may want to throw you to the buffaloes.... lol

on a more serious note, one has to be a fool to state or believe that any PM, including past PM chuan, is poor....

if what you and others meant to say was that.... past PM chuan was several hundred millions less wealthy than convicted prisoner tucksin and his family members and many other pm(s).... then, that is an accurate observation.... LOL

just wonder, where did you get your info that past pm chuan is poor....?

on another point, could you enlighten several of us with past pm chuan's matrimony date and place, pls? during that period, i was meditating something fierce in afican and the local (poo-yai-baarn) village head here was furious that he was not included in the wedding list.... LOL

thx poleax for the marriage info and pls lighten up some, K? we are all "farang kee-nok (birds' droppings) here...." LOL

A series of Posts on the honesty of Chuan Leak-Pai, as a counterpoint to my assertion that all wealthy families protect the "crown jewels".......of wealth, I mean (ahem).

Now for the rest of the story as Paul Harvie used to say, and referenced above:

This image of poverty by the gentlemen referenced is just that......Image.

No-body believe.

>His brother is the largest land-owner in the South - Tran Province.

>His wife is a huge land owner in Chiang Mai

>His teenage son drive a hugely expensive car, while daddy pretend to be poor in his beat-up old jeep

Isn't it strange that wife, brother, teenage son display wealth, while he projects an 'image' of poverty.

I could go to great length on how those engaged in Politics also engage in image creation to project a certain personea (sp?). Suffice it to say, this is the case with none other than Mr. Chuan Leak-Pai.

How is that he is so poor, and all his significant-others are something else.

Pretensions and image creation folks.

I stand by my Post #5

Just some more inconsequential drivel from the Pole.

Edited February 11, 2010 by nakachalet