Friends,

Looking up "ดักดาน" on Lexitron provides the following sample sentence for one of the two definitions:

"เขาต้องดักดานอยู่ในสำนักงานหนังสือพิมพ์ตลอดชีวิต"

Having no additional information regarding the context of this sentence, can one infer from within the four corners of the sentence what the tense might be? For example, one might say:

a. He has been stuck in his office job at the newspaper for his entire life. or

b. He is duty bound to be tied to his work at the newspaper for the rest of his life.

Or, some other rendering. Thanks.

I would guess that ต้อง would show present tense in this case David.

'He must drudge on in the printers for the rest of his life.'

Then again, maybe future tense might be implied.

He will have to.. etc.

I wouldn't think it could imply past tense, do you?

Either way, I don't think he's very happy in his job.

(I would have inserted a smiley here but my editing functions still aren't working Admin people)

David, I see that you have ignored the English meanings do you think that 'unmitigated' and the verb 'drudge' can be got from the Thai definition quoted?

From the RID (also in Lexitron). ว. คงสภาพอยู่อย่างนั้นเป็นเวลานาน (มักใช้ในเรื่องที่ไม่เจริญก้าวหน้า) Then the examples; the first acceptable to Lexitron โง่ดักดาน The second ; เป็นเสมียนอยู่ดักดาน which has been altered to make ดักดาน into a verb fitting their definition 'Drudge' เขาต้องดักดานอยู่ในสำนักงานหนังสือพิมพ์ตลอดชีวิต tagging on the all important time element seperately!

While they alter the example why not alter the definition as well?

พจนานุกรมฉบับราชบัณฑิตยสถานอยู่ดักดาน which I would translate ดักดาน as 'behind the times', an adjective, is a fair extrapolation I think.

This is why I don't answer queries very often. (another missing smiley)

tgeezer,

"เขาต้องดักดานอยู่ในสำนักงานหนังสือพิมพ์ตลอดชีวิต"

How about:

"He has been relegated to the drudgery of being in the newspaper's office his entire life."

or

"He feels that he must submit himself to the abject drudgery of lifetime employment in the office of the newspaper."

Are these more in keeping with your interpretation of the Thai sentence? I still would like to understand whether tense is implied somewhere in the sentence.

Thanks for your comments.

Krading,

I was a bit misleading using the ter "past tense". With "กำลัง" the sentence seems to reflect the "past progressive" or "past continuous" tense. Does that make more sense?

tgeezer,

"เขาต้องดักดานอยู่ในสำนักงานหนังสือพิมพ์ตลอดชีวิต"

Well ok, ignoring the meaning of the word ดักดาน just on the grammar.

There is nothing to indicate past tense, เขาต้องทำ is normally translated as ' He must do ' that is future isn't it? อยู่ drags it back to now and ตลอดชีวิต , has to be assumed to be the rest of his life.

He must do it now and for the remainder of his life.

Here is another use of the term from a 2007 newspaper article:

'. . . ด้วยเหตุนี้จึงทำให้นโยบายของคุณทักษิณประทับใจคนชั้นกลางระดับล่างมาก คนพวกนี้เขาเข้าถึงนโยบาย 30 บาทรักษาทุกโรคมากกว่าคนจนกรอบหรือที่นักเศรษฐศาสตร์ไทยเรียกว่าคนจนดักดาน เสียอีก'

'. . . .For this reason Thaksin's policy is regarded very favorably by the middle class. These people take advantage of the "30 baht for all ailments" [assistance] more than those in abject poverty or, as the Thai economists term them, the "chronically poor".'

(my rendering; corrections are welcomed.)

See http://www.nidambe11.net/ekonomiz/2005q1/a...2005jan14p8.htm for a translation of the term "คนจนดักดาน"

Here is another use of the term from a 2007 newspaper article:

'. . . ด้วยเหตุนี้จึงทำให้นโยบายของคุณทักษิณประทับใจคนชั้นกลางระดับล่างมาก คนพวกนี้เขาเข้าถึงนโยบาย 30 บาทรักษาทุกโรคมากกว่าคนจนกรอบหรือที่นักเศรษฐศาสตร์ไทยเรียกว่าคนจนดักดาน เสียอีก'

'. . . .For this reason Thaksin's policy is regarded very favorably by the middle class. These people take advantage of the "30 baht for all ailments" [assistance] more than those in abject poverty or, as the Thai economists term them, the "chronically poor".'

(my rendering; corrections are welcomed.)

See http://www.nidambe11.net/ekonomiz/2005q1/a...2005jan14p8.htm for a translation of the term "คนจนดักดาน"

I say well done David! I was trying but didn't get that far. 'chronic' fits; it has the time element. We are used to it being used with poor also; 'chronically' 'to be', would be the verb I suppose, but in translation why not 'chronic poor'.

Taking ไม่ก้าวหน้า to heart and trying to avoid 'doing verbs' maybe 'stagnant' might work sometimes; of life, the mind, business, a person's condition.

The Lexitron example becomes unnecessary, but the original RID example: 'His position as a clerk was stagnant.

Then perhaps if someone did write it as a verb you might say 'stagnated'.

Edit. I have just read the reference and see that 'chronic poverty' is correct คนจนดักดาน 'people in chronic poverty' which you have cleverly translated as 'the chronically poor'; that's why I avoid translation.

Edited February 14, 201016 yr by tgeezer