Elegance Vs Hayate

[CMX]

I’m searching the market for a city ride, one offering ample sitting space and interior storage room, and a bike capable of nearby overnight touring. My own decision is for an auto-transmission for its job in town, and I determined that for me, the tubeless tire/tyre of at least 16" is better. My choices narrowed immediately.

Of course, the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance has been the subject of a number of threads, but all the searches in the world don’t fetch a school of communicative Hayate riders. There don’t seem to be many in the first place (which might clearly tell me something, were it not for the Skyblade) – here in Chiang Mai, several shops featuring Suzuki’s don’t have new Hayate models to see. Going out of production – or scheduled for injection? Got to wait until the show.

Meanwhile, it is evident that the two offer roomier seats, about the same dimensions, 16-inch wheels with tubeless tyres/tires (of the same width), automatic transmission, and a large under-seat storage area. Neither features fuel injection, but both can swallow the considerably cheaper (Green) 91 ethanol. Yamaha Nouvo Elegances offer more solid colors and require that you ride or modify a two-tone seat; Suzuki Hayates provide paint choices including a unique violet-pink and energetic scrollwork meant to indicate speed, perhaps, but only black seats. Both provide button turn signal indicators, and neither can claim Honda advantages such as number of dealers or Honda’s more likely re-sale value.

I have been unable to find an Elegance to rent, so the driving part is the area of my interest, along with costs of operation. Many members characterize the Elegance as relatively powerful, perhaps because of its 135cc, perhaps also because of its higher compression ratio 10.8 (supported by liquid cooling) vs 9.6:1 (without), perhaps due to its DiRsii engine modifications, whatever they represent? But taken all around, why should one pay so much more for an engine that may use more fuel (I've been quoted 48.5 for the Hayate/alloys)???

Sincere thanks in advance,

Edited February 14, 2010 by CMX

[katabeachbum]

i v got a 3 year old step in my garage, red scratched and ugly. believe same 125cc engine as hayate. no probs at all. faster off the line than my yammy E 135, but yammy is stronger up the hills with passanger. fuelconsumption is the same, but steps small tank gives short range

only reason to defend yammys higher price would be liquid cooled and higher used price. In 3 years I guess they will have cost the same, hayate fetching 10k lower secondhand

I belive the sales number are something like this

Honda 60%

Yammy 30%

suzuki 3%

it doesnt make suz bad, only shows the way thai choose

Edited February 14, 2010 by katabeachbum

[skybluestu]

Both nice bikes, heard they will cease production of the Hayate this year though if that makes any difference to your decision.

[Pikey]

Personal town ride is a Nuovo Elegance and in my rental shop we have one Hayate. In 3 years I have had 2 complaints that the Hayate develops an "engine problem" after an hour or more of constant high speed running. Took it to Suzuki who were unable to find any fault. My suspicion is that the engine goes "off" due to excessive heat and then comes good again when cooler. Obviously a W/C engine won't suffer that. Mind you, I did have the fan blades on my Nouvo all shear off. Both are thirsty. I'd go for the Yam as it's a current model with good dealer backup but I'd pick a secondhand one if possible as 57,000 is pretty rich for a carb'd town runabout.

Pop into the shop anytime in the two weeks beginning monday 22/2 and have a chat if you are interested in the Nouvo - Tony's Big Bikes, Ratchmanka Rd.

BTW, mine has a one-tone black seat

Cheers,

Pikey.

Edited February 14, 2010 by Pikey

[crudski]

If you are in Chiang mai you can hire both Nouvo Elegance and Hayate from a hire shop on Khampangdin Road,drive up Loi Kroh from the moat and then turn right onto Khampangdin before the little bridge and its about 200metres down on your left hand side.I hired them both from here to see which one i liked best before i bought,200baht per day.

[thunder30101]

I have a hayate that I bought new one year ago, has been a really good bike so far with no problems and lots of power, the only dislike I have and it applies to all automatics is fuel consumption. Yes the thais dont buy suzuki's but I would put them up against any of the other major brands any day of the week for speed, reliability and comfort.

[jackcorbett]

Apparently you and a few others here think automatics have rotten fuel consumption. Can you tell me 1. What is poor fuel consumption for the 125 c.c. class motorbikes and 2. What is your fuel consumption?

[thunder30101]

No thinking about it, try putting 100 baht in a wave or similar and then put the same amount in an any automatic scooter you will be stopping for fuel a lot sooner in the automatic. Its really simple, the loss of energy in the automatic transmission causes the engine to work much harder for the same results.

[CMX]

Yes, I have purchased manual transmissions every time I could for automobile/trucks all of my driving life, but the gap in fuel consumption there (different apple or orange, I admit) has shrunk to the point that it depends, for highway use, on top end gear ratios - where automatics are sometimes superior. However, what Jack and I are wondering, I guess, is what EXACTLY is the cost of fuel using automatics, given new engineering and CVT's? There's a thread about "mileage" but it has not been overwhelmed with town-bike statistics. If indeed, as we think, autos cost more to operate, exactly how much? (Again, assuming the use of at least "green" 91 ethanol.) Also agreeing that it can't be very costly overall in a year's time this year so far.

Of course, were I interested in fuel efficiency alone (and emissions), I'd settle for the new Honda Wave 110i, with its injection, slim tires/tyres, chain, and four gears. I expect this is the best in class for sipping, and it takes E20 as well, belongs to a brand beloved by Thais. A different issue would be how much will the Click-i deliver. In Honda's statements, they say 57 for the former and 49 for the Clicki, I read (but this is third hand reporting). Certainly significant, if true.

However, I'm interested as well about advantages/features between the two - Hayate and new Elegance 135. Happily, some folks have already posted some good advice - comparative mileage still is undefined with any precision, no big deal. Thanks (so far) to all - I'm better informed than I was!

[jackcorbett]

No thinking about it, try putting 100 baht in a wave or similar and then put the same amount in an any automatic scooter you will be stopping for fuel a lot sooner in the automatic. Its really simple, the loss of energy in the automatic transmission causes the engine to work much harder for the same results.

I think we need some real hard core empirical evidence instead of all this idle speculation. And I sure in the hel_l wouldn't believe any of Honda's claims for fuel economy.

[thunder30101]

Empirical evidence lol with a vocab like that you should have the answers but I think you are just looking to argue with someone. Lets put it simpler for you, this is not a modern computer controlled transmission its a rubber band with a slipper type clutch that has a tremendous loss of energy due to its inefficiency. Those extra rpm's that come with it while starting out, running at speed, decelerating all burn lots more fuel PERIOD ! These bikes and their simple design cannot be compared in any way to a cvt or any other automatic, by the way the reason cvt trans never made it big is because of their high fuel usage over a geared automatic.

[ttakata]

Let's take a poll on the newer bike mileages then.

We just need some people to tell us their average mileages and we can compare them

It would help if you state the following:

Make and model of bike (so we can compare the engine size, fueling type and bike weights)

Octane of gas (do they all run on 91?)

~How heavy you and your gear are

Mostly city or country riding

How you ride concerning saving gas (fast and careless or slow and frugal).

I get 34KM/L average on my Nouvo Elegance running on 91 gas.

Add another 200Kgs for me and gear, and I ride fast and careless in the city.

If anyone has the manual Spark 135 or XR-1 we can compare mileages.

[jackcorbett]

Empirical evidence lol with a vocab like that you should have the answers but I think you are just looking to argue with someone. Lets put it simpler for you, this is not a modern computer controlled transmission its a rubber band with a slipper type clutch that has a tremendous loss of energy due to its inefficiency. Those extra rpm's that come with it while starting out, running at speed, decelerating all burn lots more fuel PERIOD ! These bikes and their simple design cannot be compared in any way to a cvt or any other automatic, by the way the reason cvt trans never made it big is because of their high fuel usage over a geared automatic.

That is fine but I still want hard core empirical evidence because without it you are just whistling dixie. And as for your theory, from what I've gleaned from the Internet these new automatics are more efficient and much closer to manual transmission results than traditional automatics.