Sinsod Is Making Me Crazy

[Sinsod1]

I have been with my girlfriend for over a year now. She is Thai, has two kids under 4 and has never been married. She is a sweet women and though she has made some mistakes here and there (havent we all) I would like to marry her.

Here is where the nightmare begins.

I have been giving her 20k per month since early last year to support her two kids that live with her mother here in Bangkok. My girlfriend no longer works as I grew tired of watching her working 14 hour days for 13,000 baht a month. Now when I met her mother last year I did not like her from the get go. The first time I went to her mothers house (one room actually) she let me sit outside in a suit (I wanted to look proper) for seven hours in the hot sun and never offerred me a glass of water. Nothing. I have been to some of the poorest parts of the world and people will offer you their last morsel. My girlfriend claimed her mom was shy but as I have come to learn many Thais are shy unless it is dealing with money or something else that they want.

Fast forward twelve months later and the marriage issue comes up. Her mom tells us that she wants 200,000 baht and that she wants to actually ask for more (a million because she heard of falang paying that much). Her mom claims her sisters husband paid 75,000 baht (they live in a small village in Issan so I do not believe this at all!) and that if I pay less or the same it will make the family look bad.

About a week after her mom told her this she calls my girlfriend and tells her she wants the marriage to happen in April. Now I do not know where her mom comes off telling us the marriage has to take place in April. My people have to fly 30+ hours to get her for the wedding at enourmous cost in airfare. I cannot give them 6 weeks notice to do that. When my girlfriend said we could not do this her mother told her to not talk to her about the wedding again because she does not want to hear about it because the wedding will not take place in April. My girlfriend cried her eyes out for an hour because her mom obviously hurt her by yelling at her and saying this.

I never liked her mother to begin with. And frankly I think this is all about money. Nothing more. How can you demand a wedding in six weeks or so? And I have talked to several friends about this subject and they have all said the same thing-200k to marry a women that has two kids already is ridiculous and I have already been paying to take care of them for a year. I really feel like I am being taken advantage of here and I fear this situation will cause serious problems now for me and my lady. Already I am not interested in going to her moms house anymore because I am uncomfortable with her now but that means I cannot see the kids.

I feel like this is going to end in disaster. I welcome any reasonable advice.

[GungaDin]

I feel like this is going to end in disaster

You are correct.

Walk away, and take your g/f and kids with you.

If she won't, you know what your shares are really worth.

[dttk0009]

In my eyes, sin sod is so idiotic. Do you love this woman? Does she love you? Get married for your own sakes, and reading threads on this forum, the further away from Thailand you get married the better. And yes, this is all about money. What else would this be about.

[mizzi39]

Very simple solution. Don't pay a dime. Offer to pay for the wedding and leave it at that! Oh and schedule it when it is convenient for YOU and your girl. Get used to laying down your own expectations.

Edited February 17, 2010 by mizzi39

[needforspeed]

Correct , move to another part off Thailand with Kids and GF.

Wait a while before married her, see what is happening first.

Never tell your GF that her mother is the reason why you moved.

Good luck

[cdnvic]

I feel like this is going to end in disaster

You are correct.

Walk away, and take your g/f and kids with you.

If she won't, you know what your shares are really worth.

First reply nails it.

[llso]

Absolutely Ridiculous! A million Baht for a woman with two small children from Issan. You have got to understand that the Mother has a tremendous influence over your girlfriend/Fiance. This is a given. She is a greedy money grubbing B. You need to get a third party Thai person to be your advocate and explain the situation, that this may be her only chance at redemption. As you say you have been providing support for a year or so and I'm sure the mother has benefited from this. Have your Thai advocate explain that you will provide very well for her daughter and grandchildren , but wil not be extorted. Offer to provide her her with some small level of support , which will be unavoidable. If you cannot come to some sort of agrreable arrangement with a small Sin Sod then you are in as some others have mentioned in a "no win" situation.

LL

[samuibeachcomber]

you are too generous by half.13000 baht a month is not bad income even if the hours are long,and if you let your g/f work there would be no need to send 20,000 baht per month to the old dragon who is supposed to be looking after the 2 kids.what do the 2 of them do all day,looking after 2 children with 20,000 baht income from you.No wonder the mother wants a quick settlement to the marraige and 200,000 baht,due you see the symmetry to the numbers?

[DragonQuest]

your getting scammed, if she truly loves you get married and NO SID SOD! if she say no , my mom needs the sid sod, then you know it really was for the money.

Edited February 17, 2010 by DragonQuest

[bendejo]

Nothing encouraging about this at all.

The day of the initial meeting said it all.

It's not a tough guess what she has to say about you when they talk, and it will have an effect on your gf to some extent.

Walk away.

I had to deal with something similar in a different country/culture, but in my case it was sisters.

[garyh]

You have created this situation through your own good deeds. Because you can give 20,000 each month you are a rich man so 1000000 will be no problem.

[hawthorne]

you love this woman yadda yadda. If you win the present battle and marry without paying sin sod then the next begins. This is her taking money from you, gettig you to pay a monthly allowance, paying for emergency situations or the vet bill for the family buffalo.

You have been forwarned what is ahead for you. Until the old lady dies you could be battling this problem for a long time.

I suggest you take your gf to the temple and pose this issue to the monk. Give all facts and ask for your future. The gf will probably take the advice of the monk. If the monk gives an answer not to your liking then even more of a reason to bail out. You will never win this battle of the wallet.

[Abrak]

Well I will offer what I think is sensible advice but I doubt you will like it.

As far as I can tell paying Bt200k sinsod isnt that big a deal to you as you are already paying your GF Bt20k a month. What you simply find incredibly irritating is actually paying this money to her mother who sounds like a right buffalo. The mother, on the other hand, probably isnt that bothered when the wedding is, so long as she gets her sinsod.

So basically you need to cough up so that you can tell her to shut up. If you dont want to give her the money directly, you can give it to your GF and tell her to give it to her mother. Ultimately you shouldnt look at it as a gift to her mother but as a gift to your GF. It really puts you in a very strong position not to deal with her mother again (which will be handy because she is bound to be asking for more in 6 months time.)

Ultimately the mother is a problem that you are going to have to pay off at one point or another. Simply refusing to pay isnt going to work in the long run because it will be a continual source of conflict between your GF and her mother. If you go another route - such as arguing that your GF isnt worth Bt200k sinsod because she already has 2 kids - you are just giving the mother ammunition to use against you with her daughter.

Some people argue that you are paying your GF too much. Well that is all well and good if you are giving her Bt20k because you have to rather than you are giving her Bt20k because that is what she needs for a fairly decent lifestyle. And for God's sake dont go and ask a monk. If he tells you to cough up you have gained nothing as you only paid because the monk says so (he will also tell you you have to pay for the dead buffalo next time around.) If he says dont pay her mother is still going to bitch and moan. As for walking away, well if the whole mother issue is such a big deal then you probably ought not to get married.

To be honest my alternative advice is to say as you have no plans to give the mother Bt200k, you have no plans to get married and you will continue to live together as BF/GF for the foreseeable future. Neither her mother or your GF can whinge about this decision - afterall she has had some guys kids before without marriage, so living together cant be a big deal.

Edited February 17, 2010 by Abrak

[givenall]

I feel like this is going to end in disaster

You are correct.

Walk away, and take your g/f and kids with you.

If she won't, you know what your shares are really worth.

GF with Children and annoying mother? She should give you SinSod

[slapout]

George or someone could write a book (raveling many published) using TV as a source for the pitfalls of living/visiting in Thailand. Another new member with a unique problem, or maybe this situation has been covered before? In a couple of decades of living in Thailand, visiting innumerable homes, I have never not been offered or given refreshment. I have a question or two, other than is op a troll? Is this really your gf's mother/house? What was she doing on a 14 hour/day job if she managed to have 2 kids in under 4 years as a single lady? Travel time to/from work, shower etc twice a day, eat, sleep, help take care of kids, etc would leave most women exhausted or worse. Unbelievable is my first response and after some thought also my second.

[Loz]

If the mum is in control now, she always will be. Learn to live with it, or learn to live without your girlfriend.

If you are ruthless, I hear plenty of old duffers fall from balconies to their death. Be different to hear of it being a Thai for a change...

If you are reasonable, explain to your GF that money has made your relationship with her less than beautiful, so because you love her, you have pledged all your money and material goods to the Tamagai Monks and you will be entering the Monkhood so you can be a better husband to her. Tell her you would like her mum to organise the party for when you go into the monkhood. I think she'll need a truck and a plastic chair for you to sit on in the back. Confetti, a sound system to deafen the full length of Sukhumvit. And what ever other bits and bobs make the deal authentic.

Tell her, you are so glad her mum made you realise that you must respect the thai ways and that by giving up all your goods and entering the temple for a month (up to 3 months is enough) You can really show your commitment more than mere money ever could. You look forward to returning a better man and more able to be her life partner.

See how that goes down? If you can see her kicking up dust as she heads for the hills, you have your answer. If she embraces you and rings her mum with the good news. You know you need to book 3 months in Pattaya while you put all your assets into trust. think of the fun you'll have with that extra 20k. And it will taste even better knowing that your GF loves you for who you really are rather than how much money you will really give her.

might even be worth a quick tamboon at your convenience.

Good Luck.

Edited February 17, 2010 by Loz

[otherstuff1957]

First of all, no sinsot is due when the woman has been previously married or has had children (unless they are your children of course).

Secondly, although my wife's parents died long before I met her, the rest of her family have always treated me very well and have been very welcoming and friendly. I paid for our wedding and I would have paid some support for her parents if they were still alive, but as a second husband, I was not asked for any sinsot.

Don't expect things to change between you and your girlfriends mother. What you see now is what you will get in the future. If I were you I would tell the girlfriend that she can have you or she can have her mother, but not both. You will quickly find out that Thai parents are always more important than husbands.

One last thing, 75K is not an unusual sinsot for a village girl being married for the first time. 1 million is just taking the piss!

[samuibeachcomber]

nothing like a sinsod debate to get the juices flowing...........we love it!

[davelec]

Her mom claims her sisters husband paid 75,000 baht (they live in a small village in Issan so I do not believe this at all!) and that if I pay less or the same it will make the family look bad.

75k is quite normal, I went to a very poor wedding at new year in Surin where sin sot was 120k. I don't know why you have not offered to pay half, and say that is to include the wedding costs. Or offer to pay it on the understanding you get all or some of it back, then you do not make the family look bad and you do not get screwed. They want you to do things the Thai way though and no Thai man that ever heard of pays sin sot for a girl with 2 kids, so up to you mate

[a2396]

Before she had to work many hours for 13,000 bht. Now, she gets 20,000 bht and does not have to work at all. ...and still not happy? I would ask the usual questions of how old are you and how old is she? Next, I would offer my comment that 1 million is a common "asking price" whenever a Farang is in sight. Finally, I would ask why you need to marry this woman? Unless you are taking her back to your country (with her 2 kids & support them), I see no necessity for marriage, certainly not a legal one. Many Thais are not legally married, even those of fairly high financial status. I would say she's got it good via you already. Hopefully, she is smart enough to realize this.

[steelepulse]

Slightly O/T

>>n a couple of decades of living in Thailand, visiting innumerable homes, I have never not been offered or given refreshment.

Really? I can't think of a house where I haven't been offered at least a glass of water.

[dave111223]

Slightly O/T

>>n a couple of decades of living in Thailand, visiting innumerable homes, I have never not been offered or given refreshment.

Really? I can't think of a house where I haven't been offered at least a glass of water.

He must be a right git if no one has offered him any refreshments in "decades"

[Latindancer]

Just live with her without marriage. She's got a good life already if you're paying her that much.

You sound like you have your head in the clouds.....an old-world romantic type. You went to visit her mother in a SUIT ? This set the scene for you to be the inferior one, and her to be superior. It gave her power over you in any negotiations.

Please let me tell you something I know for a certainty : a lot of these old ladies are real megalomaniacs....power and control freaks. When you went to see her in a suit, she let you sit for so long in the heat without a drink, to let you know who was in control......HER ! She did it PURPOSELY .....there is no doubt in my mind about this.

You need to change the rules of the game somehow, and let the mother know you are not playing by the old rules.

Edited February 17, 2010 by Latindancer

[sambai]

These people are preying on your naivety to this situation. This includes your girlfriend because she knows full well that with children already, she doesn’t deserve any Sinsot. The situation here, which you might not be familiar with my friend, is that a girl who has been with another guy before, or worse still has children already, isn’t desirable to anyone in good Thai society.

Thai men will not want to be in a relationship with a woman who’s been married previously (or as in the case of these Isaan folk, just living together).

I had the biggest lesson about Thailand myself after I met a middle-class Bangkok girl who’s from a good family and I’ve learnt more from her and the way Thai society operates, than anything before. Before that I was completely naive about these poor folk in Thailand. They are interested in money only but decent Thai men won’t touch them. That’s why they latch onto foreigners – foreigners don’t care about the girls’ pasts.

I’m sorry for you with your situation, because you love the girl etc. etc. My advice is to keep the relationship going if you want to but don’t marry. The mother sounds like she’s completely ungrateful and very low-class. A visitor to her home should be treated with respect and what you describe is quite frankly an indication that she does not want her daughter to be involved with a foreigner. However, money is paramount in these people’s eyes, irrespective of how they came by it. Therefore, she’s interested solely in your money and nothing else.

If the family want their daughter to be happy and secure, they won’t ask for a Sinsod, given that she has children already.

The situation where a Sinsot is applicable is as follows. A good family bring up their daughter and take care of her. She stays at home with the family and does not get into casual relationships. She does not sleep with any man. When the time comes that a man shows interest in her, marriage is discussed and a Sinsot is agreed.

In your situation, the girl has ruined her chances of securing a Sinsot by having a casual relationship with someone. There is also no guarantee that this girl has finished the relationship with the man. If he’s Thai, he could be living in their village and they have not ended their relationship. This is another thing that the Isaan people do on a regular basis. They are quite happy to have long-distance relationships and for the years to pass by with them being away from each other. During this time they experience casual relationships whilst still regarding themselves as being a couple. This is what they do. I have talked with many of them and I can promise you, it’s totally normal for them. They do not have the same morals as middle-class Thai families. They have other more pressing problems, like surviving.

I hope you see sense my friend and get someone good that you deserve.

Edited February 17, 2010 by sambai

[Loz]

I agree with LD.

I have been treated to glasses of water when I stopped to look at furniture at a shop on the bypass. You don't get that courtesy when you visit the future in laws.

You invite her round to your place. You make her sit on the balcony which you have loosened the railings on. You sit by thewall and offer her the seat nearest the edge. You sit by the patio window with the Air con seeping through keeping you cool.

Yes this is extreme but you get the idea. In the UK we used to call this "Uber games". Its all a power play. You need to strip her of all her power with a smile. When she says call me a taxi its time to go, you say. Yes, lets have a coffee and just keep talking more. You control her time, her temp (not such an issue for hardened isaan crones!) and her hunger. You serve farang food that you love. in spadefuls on her plate. You ask, Can you eat bland food? ask several times to be sure, just like she would about "spicy". Be sure to give her heaps of farang food. No ice in her water. Tap water will do her good. Suggest you drink wine but don't offer her any unless you have an inferior bottle of cats pizzle to woo her with. Cut her off at the knees. Let her know she messed with the wrong farang. but in the nicest way, always with a smile. If you are driving her home stop at Big C on the way for an hour. take a phone call in the car that lasts the whole journey and is VERY loud. and of course in English and any other European languages you know.

You must prevail!

[Lovedog100]

Just live with her without marriage. She's got a good life already if you're paying her that much.

You sound like you have your head in the clouds.....an old-world romantic type. You went to visit her mother in a SUIT ? This set the scene for you to be the inferior one, and her to be superior. It gave her power over you in any negotiations.

Please let me tell you something I know for a certainty : a lot of these old ladies are real megalomaniacs....power and control freaks. When you went to see her in a suit, she let you sit for so long in the heat without a drink, to let you know who was in control......HER ! She did it PURPOSELY .....there is no doubt in my mind about this.

You need to change the rules of the game somehow, and let the mother know you are not playing by the old rules.

There is some truth here. Mom is running the show, the GF knew it, now you do. Fly home and get married there. Tell the GF you two are going on holiday, then get married. You could tell the lady that you want to take a break, to much stress. Then disappear for a month, (with out paying the 20,000) The monk thing someone mentioned was a good one.

There is always other women. Better to find one with out children. Why raise some lazy Thai's kids. Then again, he may already be getting 5,000 a month from the GF.

Remember, mom and the GF need you more than you need them. You could replace her in a heart beat. Finding another farang for marriage could take a lifetime.

[SoiGirlHunter]

You wore a suit to see the mom??

When i first went too see my wifes mom i dressed kee nok, got drunk as heck and spent way too much time chatting up the hot neighbors

i paid 200$ sin sot

Edited February 17, 2010 by SoiGirlHunter

[h90]

find a new girlfriend....if she listens to her mother and even let you know, there will be more troubles after you married.

at 20.000 Baht per month.....some of my staff work 6 days a weeks 10 hours a day for 6.000 Baht.

[chickenslegs]

Slightly O/T

>>n a couple of decades of living in Thailand, visiting innumerable homes, I have never not been offered or given refreshment.

Really? I can't think of a house where I haven't been offered at least a glass of water.

He must be a right git if no one has offered him any refreshments in "decades"

The double negative has confused a couple of people ("never not"). The poster surely meant he has always been offered or given refreshment.

[senshusband]

in dealing with the mother: Have you tried slapping her and telling her to sit down and shut up? I have seen Thai men do it and it usually gets their attention. Just a thought.