the structure is for one storey(columns 15x15 with 4 rebars 12 mm), so add the weight of a second storey and it all falls apart

Really? 4 x 12 dia rebars for the main steel for a structural RC column?

You state 15x15...I’m assuming you mean 150mm square sections?

Say, 150x150 for RC column section.

150mm – [40mm cover(x2) - (say 10 dia for shear links x2) + 5mm tolerance] = 150-105=45mm

See how close the rebar main steels are? That is assuming one has found somebody that can bend the shear links to such small dims...I’m also assuming that all usual checks have been performed for buckling, shear and so on. I’m asking as you seem to be aware of the problems regarding disproportionate collapse of structures.

I’m not saying it’s impossible given LLL building control, I’m just saying..

Really? 4 x 12 dia rebars for the main steel for a structural RC column?

You state 15x15...I’m assuming you mean 150mm square sections?

Say, 150x150 for RC column section.

150mm – [40mm cover(x2) - (say 10 dia for shear links x2) + 5mm tolerance] = 150-105=45mm

See how close the rebar main steels are? That is assuming one has found somebody that can bend the shear links to such small dims...I’m also assuming that all usual checks have been performed for buckling, shear and so on. I’m asking as you seem to be aware of the problems regarding disproportionate collapse of structures.

I’m not saying it’s impossible given LLL building control, I’m just saying..

go have a look at any thai project building site with one storey houses. no foundation, small floorbeams and 15x15cm columns with 4 x rebars 12mm. concrete floor on mud (hot/humid, no airgap under) steel beams between columns to carry roof, no way to make another storey.

some projects they even skip the concrete columns and replace them with 4x4" steel columns. Lifetime 5-12 years.

or dont go have a look, just inspect the buildingpermits.

go have a look at any thai project building site with one storey houses. no foundation, small floorbeams and 15x15cm columns with 4 x rebars 12mm. concrete floor on mud (hot/humid, no airgap under) steel beams between columns to carry roof, no way to make another storey.

some projects they even skip the concrete columns and replace them with 4x4" steel columns. Lifetime 5-12 years.

or dont go have a look, just inspect the buildingpermits.

I've got to be honest, the ability to go up a floor at some time in the future, is quite important to me. That's why I like basic Thai houses, because they are detached. making it (I thought) easier to extend up.

Surely there must be a way to strengthen foundations or add new ones? Couldn't you build the second story on it's own foundations, as if the first floor wasn't there? Like the houses built on stilts, except instead of there being an open space underneath there would be walls and rooms. Obviously I have no clue what I'm talking about, it just seems like it would be doable one way or another.

Surely there must be a way to strengthen foundations or add new ones?

Sure.. Remove everything on the foundations.. Dig new larger ones.. Repour (or repile).. and rebuild

This is my point about getting it right first time.. A bad foundation or thin non insulating single skin blockwork is the kind of stuff thats 'non fixable' without starting again..

Quite often the lower end thai buildings have a lifespan designed for a decade or two.. Buying second hand, already well into that lifespan, isnt the same as western homes.

I've got to be honest, the ability to go up a floor at some time in the future, is quite important to me. That's why I like basic Thai houses, because they are detached. making it (I thought) easier to extend up.

Surely there must be a way to strengthen foundations or add new ones? Couldn't you build the second story on it's own foundations, as if the first floor wasn't there? Like the houses built on stilts, except instead of there being an open space underneath there would be walls and rooms. Obviously I have no clue what I'm talking about, it just seems like it would be doable one way or another.

cant have groundfloor on one foundation and upper floor on one. they would move differently and everything crack. it would also be very expensive

besides, buying inexpensive property in Phuket is landprice. for a new house you pay very little, for secondhand close to nothing.

Land & House Park Chalong, Baan Parichart. Bungalows 110 sqm, 3 bed, 2 bath, non visible electric cables, watertank and pump, nice tiles, doors and windows, even garden, all brand new. 1,1 mil baht for the houses. 60 talangwah land, 2 meters on each side of the house, 1,3 mill baht. ad land for a pool or larger garden, 30 talangwah, 650.000 baht.

Sure.. Remove everything on the foundations.. Dig new larger ones.. Repour (or repile).. and rebuild

This is my point about getting it right first time.. A bad foundation or thin non insulating single skin blockwork is the kind of stuff thats 'non fixable' without starting again..

Quite often the lower end thai buildings have a lifespan designed for a decade or two.. Buying second hand, already well into that lifespan, isnt the same as western homes.

There are short RC pile systems that could be used to underpin the foundations. We normally might only consider their use for instances of structural subsidence due to poor or failing ground conditions. If the sub-structure elements have been under-designed, no amount of Somchai botching on the super structure elements will permit satisfactory lift to extra floors. Given the expense and specialist nature of the system, I’d say forget about it unless you’re really keen on the location.

If I was looking at buying, I'd look to water supply first. I have heard from certain people water is going to be a real major problem soon for a lot of areas.

Take a trip to the Central Mall in Phuket,

Is that Central Festival?

Take a trip to the Central Mall in Phuket,

Is that Central Festival?

yepp, Central Festival. Couldnt see any bargains though

yepp, Central Festival. Couldnt see any bargains though

The company 'Chiang mai' was talking about did have the exact spec of property I was talking about, but unfortunately they only have a grand total of 9 listings in Phuket. Four of those were land parcels, and one was a lovely shop house in Old Phuket town, but that was 8 mill, so hardly a bargain. The other four were town houses and not detached. I'm not sure how often they get new properties in, so will be a case of checking their site once in a while. If anyone is looking for a doer upper in Trang they start at around 225K

To all the builders out there, one more question for you. My idea had two parts. One was the adding of a story, which it would seem ain't gonna happen, unless you knock down the building and start again. I underestimated the importance of foundations and thought making the walls stronger and thicker would create enough strength for another floor.

The second part of my plan, once I'd gone up a floor was to have a flat roof terrace with a sala style wooden roof for shade, thus trebling the living space you originally had. So my question is, would the original one story building be able to support the flat roof terrace? Surely there wouldn't be much more weight in that, than the proper roof. Doubling the living space could well be enough to make it worth while. I know roofs have their job in keeping houses cool but I think I'd rather have the extra space, and a higher electric bill.

with steel top beams on 15x15cm columns, no. sorry. there is nothing to carry the weight of a flat concrete slab roof, which is VERY heavy

if the roof is asbest (sorry fibercement is the modern word in LOS), its usually not even strong enough to carry concrete roof tiles

most inexpensive houses are dimensioned for what you see. adding extra weight is usually not possible. thats why they are inexpensive

with steel top beams on 15x15cm columns, no. sorry. there is nothing to carry the weight of a flat concrete slab roof, which is VERY heavy

if the roof is asbest (sorry fibercement is the modern word in LOS), its usually not even strong enough to carry concrete roof tiles

most inexpensive houses are dimensioned for what you see. adding extra weight is usually not possible. thats why they are inexpensive

Cheers mate. Back to the drawing board it is then.

The last thing you want in the tropics is a flat roof. They always leak and because of no air insulation, the sun makes the whole house hot.

The last thing you want in the tropics is a flat roof. They always leak and because of no air insulation, the sun makes the whole house hot.

proper flat roofs do not leak at all, but its not cheap to build. my swimmingpool on 2nd floor doesnt leak either

ventilation under roof/over ceiling and insulation in ceiling makes temperature in room same as with any other roof

The last thing you want in the tropics is a flat roof. They always leak and because of no air insulation, the sun makes the whole house hot.

proper flat roofs do not leak at all, but its not cheap to build. my swimmingpool on 2nd floor doesnt leak either

ventilation under roof/over ceiling and insulation in ceiling makes temperature in room same as with any other roof

If you are going to spend so much time telling people that they are wrong 'KB', which seems to be all that you do. Wouldn't the second part of the plan be for you to get your facts right? I can't remember the last time you said something that wasn't wrong.

Flat roofs are all over Phuket. I drove down the 402 today, the eastern section from the bypass junction down in to town, and I would estimate at least half of all roofs on that stretch are flat! If I thought they were all leaking, as you do, I would have started a roofing company by now!

Some confusion here as to the form and function of a building structure.

The best advice I would give to a non-professional wishing to spend some serious wonger on a dwelling, would be to engage the services of a good architect. He will know the law, design, specification of building fabric, etc. You will be surprised what you don't know...