Red Shirts Moving For A Showdown: Jatuporn

[webfact]

UDD considering major rallies in March

BANGKOK: -- (NNT) - The anti-government United Front of Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) has made plans to discuss the date of another major rally tomorrow.

UDD core leader and Puea Thai MP, Mr Jatuporn Promphan, disclosed today that the anti-government mass demonstration will likely take place in March. He said one million people are expected to show up during the planned seven-day rally, but insisted that the group would not extend their protest to the Songkran festival in April.

Up to 100,000 vehicles from the north and northeastern provinces will travel to the rally site if targets are reached. The UDD will station themselves from Sanam Luang to Ratchadamnern road and the Royal Plaza, said the UDD core-leader. He added that the group is considering staging rallies at military camps in Chon Buri, Prachin Buri, Lop Buri and Kanchana Buri simultaneously.

Mr Jatuporn asserted that the group will not stage a mass rally at the Supreme Court on 26 February, when the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Holders of Political Positions will read out its verdict on the 76.6 billion THB asset seizure case against former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his family.

-- NNT 2010-02-23

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[Credo]

I don't think it would be a rally at the reading of the verdict. The last time I heard them read a verdict it took about 5 hours. More like a mass sleep-in.

[otherstuff1957]

I find it interesting that these mass rallies keep on being announced and then canceled. Despite fairly well substantiated claims that large rallies have been held upcountry, they just can't seem to get one organized here in BKK.

Only the leaders of the Redshirts would know for sure, but it seems to me that there are three or four possible explanations:

1. Thaksin doesn't have enough money to fund a big demonstration. Even if large numbers of people were willing to come unpaid, their food & fuel bills would have to be picked up.

2. The Redshirt leaders don't agree among themselves as to when the demonstrations should start, who should lead them, how peaceful they should be, etc...

3. Thaksin has completely lost the plot and is issuing vague, contradictory and unrealistic orders from Dubai.

4. Large numbers of the ordinary Redshirts are simply not interested to protesting about Thaksin's money. If the protests were about elections or constitutional change, they'd show up, but they just aren't prepared to fight for some rich guy's money.

I'd really like #4 to be true, but I suspect that the real reason is some combination of 1,2 or 3.

[connel707]

What about the yellow shirts who disrupt the thai economy and the tourist industry. I see from looking on the out side that the red shirts are mice and the yellow shirts are the tigers who are systematically destroying the thai economy. From an outsiders point of view I think thailand should get rid of these yellow shirt terrorists. BKK airport is still a sour taste in the worlds mouth.

I hate to tell you this mate.... us Farangs, we hate all extremists, yellow or Red ... But we know a snake when we see one... we had one in Europe a few years ago who hypnitized a whole nation..... Adolf something or other.... Look and learn.... !!

[elcent]

It can happen. Why? As long as the majority of people think (with reasons) that this government is acting on behalf of the Army and Abhisit's just the spokesman for the Army as long there will be no challenge for good.

I'm not questioning the ability of the Prime Minister and his team (except of the FM) and the legacy of how it came to govern, but the settings surrounding it all is undeniable wrong. It was so since the coup and because of the coup.

A roll-back would be the logical solution, but technically and realistically it won't happen, unless those who have allegedly stolen the votes of people give back this Nation to the people. In another scenario and this is what likely will happen, the red shirts will take the role of an army and fight to enforce a rollback, even after that it will need a lot of compromising, but this seems to be the less violent solution.

In case of the army getting involved with another coup, I'm afraid to think about that, but it would probably lead to a real civil war.

[gemini81]

these are the genius words of their main ring leader? Usually, party leaders would have basic math skills in order to convince blind followers. The final showdown? Is that a threat, or is this a pro wrestling contest?

[Sisaketmike]

This is like the 3rd final showdown, or is it higher than that?

Thailand - the Hub of Final Showdowns!

Asia's Hub of education……

Hub of correct ( no money under the table) behavior……

Hub of driving Mao….

Hub of dying fast.....

Hub of best school system in the world….

Hub of Army bla, bla, bla, sometimes called coup……

Hub of smiles, where even citizens from this country might misunderstand the meaning and pull the trigger.....

Hub of hit and run...............( never stop when you see a bloody accident, it could be your fault.........)

Hub of yellow and red shirts.........( buying them is easy.....)

Edited February 23, 2010 by Sisaketmike

[rixalex]

I find it interesting that these mass rallies keep on being announced and then canceled. Despite fairly well substantiated claims that large rallies have been held upcountry, they just can't seem to get one organized here in BKK.

Only the leaders of the Redshirts would know for sure, but it seems to me that there are three or four possible explanations:

1. Thaksin doesn't have enough money to fund a big demonstration. Even if large numbers of people were willing to come unpaid, their food & fuel bills would have to be picked up.

2. The Redshirt leaders don't agree among themselves as to when the demonstrations should start, who should lead them, how peaceful they should be, etc...

3. Thaksin has completely lost the plot and is issuing vague, contradictory and unrealistic orders from Dubai.

4. Large numbers of the ordinary Redshirts are simply not interested to protesting about Thaksin's money. If the protests were about elections or constitutional change, they'd show up, but they just aren't prepared to fight for some rich guy's money.

I'd really like #4 to be true, but I suspect that the real reason is some combination of 1,2 or 3.

Very well summed-up. I'd put 76 billion baht on it being 1,2 and 3, if i had it.

[Deez]

Ah.

So this is the final showdown then. I thought we'd already had that

Next will be the Absolute Final Showdown and then the Super Final Final Showdown

[jdinasia]

It can happen. Why? As long as the majority of people think (with reasons) that this government is acting on behalf of the Army and Abhisit's just the spokesman for the Army as long there will be no challenge for good.

I'm not questioning the ability of the Prime Minister and his team (except of the FM) and the legacy of how it came to govern, but the settings surrounding it all is undeniable wrong. It was so since the coup and because of the coup.

A roll-back would be the logical solution, but technically and realistically it won't happen, unless those who have allegedly stolen the votes of people give back this Nation to the people. In another scenario and this is what likely will happen, the red shirts will take the role of an army and fight to enforce a rollback, even after that it will need a lot of compromising, but this seems to be the less violent solution.

In case of the army getting involved with another coup, I'm afraid to think about that, but it would probably lead to a real civil war.

hmmm point by point?

1) The majority of people have never been shown to think the way you are suggesting.

2) there have been elections since the coup --- the MP's elected in those elections elected the current government.

3) saying "allegedly" doesn't change fact #2

4) The reds are not going to riot en masse, nobody but a few fanatics will accept thai on Thai mass violence and the government will not start any violence (unlike in 2008), much less "take the role of an army".

5) even a coup wouldn't lead to a civil war. It would please too many reds to see the Democraticly elected government kicked out. (Note there was no democratically elected government at the time of the coup in 2006)

[landofthefree]

Ah.

So this is the final showdown then. I thought we'd already had that

Oh dear! Oh dear! The Nation, Looking into your crystal ball again and coming up with more tripe, you are sounding like children at a school shouting 'fight! fight! fight! aren't you going to all be dissapointed if nothing happens after Friday!

Apparently you have not read the othe English language paper from BKK, or ANY Thai language paper etc etc etc

I think we will ALL be happy if the red threats fizzle and die without there being any of the violence their leaders like sae Daeng have threatened!

Question --- would you have the Nation deny Jutaporn and the reds space in the paper?

BTW --- since TV and The Nation joined up, I no longer pay for a subscription to The Nation for my home or my office, just the Bangkok Post. I get all of The Nation I need to see right here on TV!

I get the Nation and the Bangkok Post free in my apartment and I have been a reader of both of them for about 6 months. Todays Nation issue has cover to cover Thaksin coverage most of it pure speculation ie if this verdict is this then maybe this will happen and preety much no news in it. As most people that have lived in the Kingdom for a few years I realize that a free press is far from free in Thailand as the Bangkok Post is full of similar drivel. The best use I find for these 2 'quality' publications is in the bathroom when the toilet paper has run out.

[ballpoint]

I get the Nation and the Bangkok Post free in my apartment and I have been a reader of both of them for about 6 months. Todays Nation issue has cover to cover Thaksin coverage most of it pure speculation ie if this verdict is this then maybe this will happen and preety much no news in it. As most people that have lived in the Kingdom for a few years I realize that a free press is far from free in Thailand as the Bangkok Post is full of similar drivel. The best use I find for these 2 'quality' publications is in the bathroom when the toilet paper has run out.

Great, we're getting advice from a guy who wipes his arse with a newspaper. Haven't you heard of bum guns?

[jdinasia]

So ... 'landofthefree' -- you covered the 2 major English language papers ... Both are full of very similar stories and both report very similar stories.

Do you read the Thai papers?

and why didn't you answer the ONE question from my post that you quoted. Would you have The Nation deny the red leaders coverage of their press conferences and a platform to air their views?

[KASABIAN]

Next will be the Absolute Final Showdown and then the Super Final Final Showdown

They've had more showdowns then Muhammad Ali.

[elcent]

It can happen. Why? As long as the majority of people think (with reasons) that this government is acting on behalf of the Army and Abhisit's just the spokesman for the Army as long there will be no challenge for good.

I'm not questioning the ability of the Prime Minister and his team (except of the FM) and the legacy of how it came to govern, but the settings surrounding it all is undeniable wrong. It was so since the coup and because of the coup.

A roll-back would be the logical solution, but technically and realistically it won't happen, unless those who have allegedly stolen the votes of people give back this Nation to the people. In another scenario and this is what likely will happen, the red shirts will take the role of an army and fight to enforce a rollback, even after that it will need a lot of compromising, but this seems to be the less violent solution.

In case of the army getting involved with another coup, I'm afraid to think about that, but it would probably lead to a real civil war.

hmmm point by point?

1) The majority of people have never been shown to think the way you are suggesting.

2) there have been elections since the coup --- the MP's elected in those elections elected the current government.

3) saying "allegedly" doesn't change fact #2

4) The reds are not going to riot en masse, nobody but a few fanatics will accept thai on Thai mass violence and the government will not start any violence (unlike in 2008), much less "take the role of an army".

5) even a coup wouldn't lead to a civil war. It would please too many reds to see the Democraticly elected government kicked out. (Note there was no democratically elected government at the time of the coup in 2006)

I remember you as jumping on everything and everyone that could go against the yellows in the slightest, lol.

You do underestimate the people.

Remember, a coup would only benefit the yellow (to cover their crimes) and to some extent Thaksin (to delay judgement) only, but not the people.

And since you know everything in detail, would you please be so kind and explain why Red Shirt leaders have been charged and sentenced within weeks within an incidence, I think it was in Udon or somewhere nearby, and yellow shirt leaders still running free. What happened to those that took over by force and with guns the TV station?

[Sunderland]

There is one perfect solution ...

Seize all the money and throw a big free party at Sanam Luang for the red shirts. They can eat and drink as much as they want. The red shirt leaders can call it 'Final Blowout' and the vast majority will go home happy after a fun day out in the big smoke ...

As for all this leading to a civil war it just isn't going to come to that unless it involves a one-sided battle where there are 6 men belting the crap out of someone lying on the floor in every corner of the country. That's about as bloodthirsty as it gets here. Seriously, most people here couldn't be bothered to fight with their fellow Thais. It involves too much effort ...

Edited February 23, 2010 by Sunderland

[landofthefree]

So ... 'landofthefree' -- you covered the 2 major English language papers ... Both are full of very similar stories and both report very similar stories.

Do you read the Thai papers?

and why didn't you answer the ONE question from my post that you quoted. Would you have The Nation deny the red leaders coverage of their press conferences and a platform to air their views?

Thanks for your questions. In answer to the 'do I read Thai newspapers?' question the answer is that alike I would guess 99.9% of foreigners living here I don't read Thai but I do enjoy the regular carnage photographs on the front pages of them. In any case if I did read Thai would that provide me with the reassuarance that all I was reading was true? judging by the number of Thais that choose to read cartoon books in favour of reading newspapers I suspect many of them rate the Thai newspapers integrity in the same way as I do.

Question 2: Haven't you noticed that the Nation only reports on the redshirts when they can come up with a negative theme to go along with the story ? So to answer your question they are not going to report anything other than the Elite's theme which is never to say anything good about the reds or Thaksin if you doubt this I challenge you to come up with an example story that dissproves that assertion.

I do read a lot of foreign papers on the internet the latest themes that I have read on Thailand are to do with the lack of human rights in the country and the fact that the country is politically unstable. No surprises there then!

[jdinasia]

It can happen. Why? As long as the majority of people think (with reasons) that this government is acting on behalf of the Army and Abhisit's just the spokesman for the Army as long there will be no challenge for good.

I'm not questioning the ability of the Prime Minister and his team (except of the FM) and the legacy of how it came to govern, but the settings surrounding it all is undeniable wrong. It was so since the coup and because of the coup.

A roll-back would be the logical solution, but technically and realistically it won't happen, unless those who have allegedly stolen the votes of people give back this Nation to the people. In another scenario and this is what likely will happen, the red shirts will take the role of an army and fight to enforce a rollback, even after that it will need a lot of compromising, but this seems to be the less violent solution.

In case of the army getting involved with another coup, I'm afraid to think about that, but it would probably lead to a real civil war.

hmmm point by point?

1) The majority of people have never been shown to think the way you are suggesting.

2) there have been elections since the coup --- the MP's elected in those elections elected the current government.

3) saying "allegedly" doesn't change fact #2

4) The reds are not going to riot en masse, nobody but a few fanatics will accept thai on Thai mass violence and the government will not start any violence (unlike in 2008), much less "take the role of an army".

5) even a coup wouldn't lead to a civil war. It would please too many reds to see the Democraticly elected government kicked out. (Note there was no democratically elected government at the time of the coup in 2006)

I remember you as jumping on everything and everyone that could go against the yellows in the slightest, lol.

You do underestimate the people.

Remember, a coup would only benefit the yellow (to cover their crimes) and to some extent Thaksin (to delay judgement) only, but not the people.

And since you know everything in detail, would you please be so kind and explain why Red Shirt leaders have been charged and sentenced within weeks within an incidence, I think it was in Udon or somewhere nearby, and yellow shirt leaders still running free. What happened to those that took over by force and with guns the TV station?

To address the only on topic remark first ----- A coup would benefit nobody at the current time other than Thaksin and the fanatics that support him (or the 500 baht a day soldiers he hires). The "nobody" includes the dems .. the leaders of the PAD ... the army ... the elite ... the poor ..... Only Thaksin. I am glad to see that you are consistant though and failed to address any point in my post --- while I addressed EVERY point in your post

Hmmmm when did you join TV? ----- When were the yellows last relatively active for me to be posting about them?

BTW -- this thread is about Red Shirts moving for a showdown --- not yellow leadership that is out on bail (yet still in the country and not hiding in Dubai)

[landofthefree]

I get the Nation and the Bangkok Post free in my apartment and I have been a reader of both of them for about 6 months. Todays Nation issue has cover to cover Thaksin coverage most of it pure speculation ie if this verdict is this then maybe this will happen and preety much no news in it. As most people that have lived in the Kingdom for a few years I realize that a free press is far from free in Thailand as the Bangkok Post is full of similar drivel. The best use I find for these 2 'quality' publications is in the bathroom when the toilet paper has run out.

Great, we're getting advice from a guy who wipes his arse with a newspaper. Haven't you heard of bum guns?

Bum guns are great but my Thai friends explained to me that you have to dry your arse after using them thats why they go into the toilets with tissues, havent you been drying your arse after youve been using bum guns? I hope so because you could get a rash in the tropics from not doing that. Oh just to keep on topic the Nation is a quality newspaper reporting very well on the current crisis.

[jdinasia]

So ... 'landofthefree' -- you covered the 2 major English language papers ... Both are full of very similar stories and both report very similar stories.

Do you read the Thai papers?

and why didn't you answer the ONE question from my post that you quoted. Would you have The Nation deny the red leaders coverage of their press conferences and a platform to air their views?

Thanks for your questions. In answer to the 'do I read Thai newspapers?' question the answer is that alike I would guess 99.9% of foreigners living here I don't read Thai but I do enjoy the regular carnage photographs on the front pages of them. In any case if I did read Thai would that provide me with the reassuarance that all I was reading was true? judging by the number of Thais that choose to read cartoon books in favour of reading newspapers I suspect many of them rate the Thai newspapers integrity in the same way as I do.

Question 2: Haven't you noticed that the Nation only reports on the redshirts when they can come up with a negative theme to go along with the story ? So to answer your question they are not going to report anything other than the Elite's theme which is never to say anything good about the reds or Thaksin if you doubt this I challenge you to come up with an example story that dissproves that assertion.

I do read a lot of foreign papers on the internet the latest themes that I have read on Thailand are to do with the lack of human rights in the country and the fact that the country is politically unstable. No surprises there then!

Ahhhh I see you missed the point ... ALL papers cover the events you are crying about the Nation covering. The Nation does have a more anti-Thaksin editorial slant than most and since the reds are still holding up their convicted -- fugitive -- self-stated democracy is only a tool not a goal, leader as a saint .. they get smacked around a lot.

The thing is other than Truth Today and affiliated outlets ... all the papers report with pretty much a similar slant.

Thai papers report the same events that the English dailies do (but they do have more interesting local stories!)

Not much in the foreign press about human rights except the same crap that comes out regularly after folks with no clue about Thailand put out some random report. The funny thing is that the countries that those international papers are printed in are often on the same hit lists from HRW and others.

Question 2 .. you left unanswered. Would you have The Nation NOT give the red leaders access to having their points put across in the paper? You obfusctated and failed to answer the question that was asked.

[elcent]

@landofthefree

jdinasia always says that his questions were/are not answered. He only accepts answers as such that suit his/group version of how things should go; probably a paid poster.

[jdinasia]

@landofthefree

jdinasia always says that his questions were/are not answered. He only accepts answers as such that suit his/group version of how things should go; probably a paid poster.

hmmm .... ad hominem at its best .....

nah ... not worth it

Point --- either the press SHOULD NOT print quotes from red leadership OR "landofthefree" should not bitch about the quotes being printed. Pretty obvious. I just want to see if he'll own up to his own logic. Nobody is denying an editorial slant on the part of The Nation (that I have seen at least).

Then again ... I am using the only screenname I have ever had on TV

[givenall]

Ah.

So this is the final showdown then. I thought we'd already had that

We still have Final, super final, ultimate final, etc. etc.

Just give it up. If they are serious then get enough vote and then change the government. They forget that Thai people have very short attention span and this is really getting old

[ovenman]

Ah.

So this is the final showdown then. I thought we'd already had that

Next will be the Absolute Final Showdown and then the Super Final Final Showdown

Sounds like a couple of wrestling pay-per-views. Where's Vince McMahon when you need him?

[landofthefree]

@landofthefree

jdinasia always says that his questions were/are not answered. He only accepts answers as such that suit his/group version of how things should go; probably a paid poster.

Thanks for your advice I will put this one down as 'jdinasia and I will agree to dissagree on this one' cheers again

[elcent]

look at the past when major things happened in this country. It follows a pattern. Middle of April to May, September and October. I'd consider this now as a heat-up period in case it should go worse. The government looks pretty bad when you consider how they're sent in circles by empty announcements at times. Nevertheless, it could happen. The combat money should have been spent wisely and for other things.

[jdinasia]

@landofthefree

jdinasia always says that his questions were/are not answered. He only accepts answers as such that suit his/group version of how things should go; probably a paid poster.

Thanks for your advice I will put this one down as 'jdinasia and I will agree to dissagree on this one' cheers again

Yes, that is FAR more intellectually honest than answering a simple question such as -- "Should the Nation print reports of the Red leader's press conferences and public statements?"

[mrtoad]

Ahead of the mass rally in the capital, mobile units of red shirts will lay siege at Army bases to block the troops from staging a coup or cracking down protesters.

The targetted bases include those of the 2nd Infantry Division in Prachin Buri, the 21st Infantry Regiment in Chon Buri, the 31st Infantry Regiment in Lop Buri and the 9th Infantry Division in Kanchanaburi.

-- The Nation 2010-02-23

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

I saw the last protest that the Red shirts had outside the 9th Infantry Division in Kanchanaburi a few weeks back - must have been all of 60 people. What a joke.

[jdinasia]

Ahead of the mass rally in the capital, mobile units of red shirts will lay siege at Army bases to block the troops from staging a coup or cracking down protesters.

The targetted bases include those of the 2nd Infantry Division in Prachin Buri, the 21st Infantry Regiment in Chon Buri, the 31st Infantry Regiment in Lop Buri and the 9th Infantry Division in Kanchanaburi.

-- The Nation 2010-02-23

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

I saw the last protest that the Red shirts had outside the 9th Infantry Division in Kanchanaburi a few weeks back - must have been all of 60 people. What a joke.

The stage isn't evenn lit up behind Wat Phra Singh tonight --- the last week has had fewer than 20 people there any given night (and I think they were the family of whoever was singing -- badly)

There is almost no risk of the reds mobilising more than 20-30k anywhere in the country these days. The cash just isn't there to feed them much less pay them!

[mommysboy]

There doesn't seem to be any organisation or unity in the reds and generally empty threats IMHO. Shame as they have a moral advantage again IMHO.