Rabies And Soi Dogs

[eurasianthai]

Rabies will kill you.

One of the few illnesses with no cure.

You get it, you die.

A woman who brought a dog from Chiang Mai to sell it on Chatuchak weekend market got bitten, and well, died.

Now it seems the Thai government wants to vaccinate dogs and cats for rabies, free of charge.

How many soi dogs and cats can you actually catch and vaccinate?

And how many will "escape" vaccination?

Isn't it time the Thai governement do something about the soi dogs?

Edited February 23, 2010 by eurasianthai

[wileycoyote]

Yes ,the situation will escalate until someone gets bitten and dies

[apetley]

Of course it's time that something is done about strays, should have happened many years ago but sorry to say it's unlikely.

Unfortunately there is not the will to do anything about the problem.

People trot out the same lame excuse 'not the Buddhist way' as a reason not to cull the animals but you get a case of bird flu or foot and mouth in an area and you will get a merciless cull of animals infected or not.

[jdinasia]

eurasianthai --- what exactly would you have the government do?

and in the same train of thought --- which government? The national government? local government? ....

[eurasianthai]

You've got to remove the stray dogs from the streets.

Put them in a shelter for some time, and if not adopted, well...

This is what all countries do, and Thailand should be no exception.

This is just too dangerous.

And besides, you'll put an end to the misery of the majority of soi dogs.

Edited February 23, 2010 by eurasianthai

[jdinasia]

Sorry, but it is not what "all nations do".

But really why did you shy away from saying that what you want Thailand to do is round up dogs and cats by the millions and kill them?

and again --- who should do this?

[eurasianthai]

I did not say you have to kill them, I said you have to find a way for them to be off the street.

And if you don't, you indeed have to kill them.

What is your alternative?

Letting soi dogs living a miserable life in the streets and if unlucky, getting rabies and killing a few people?

Sorry, but it does not make sense to me...

Edited February 23, 2010 by eurasianthai

[F1fanatic]

Did the woman die from rabies? If so, how come she didn't recognise it in her dog?

Fortunately rabies has been eliminated from Phuket, but I have no idea how prevalent it is in the rest of Thailand.

Are there any figures anywhere for the number of people who have died from rabies?

As for those advocating killing all soi dogs, you're not human. They're not dangerous (unless someone can come up with proof that lots of people are dying of rabies after being bitten by soi dogs)

Thank god for Soi Dogs sterilising the strays in an attempt to reduce the problem of unloved, uncared for, starving stray dogs.

[jdinasia]

"and if not adopted, well ......" seemed like you were implying kill them without saying it.

I am not the one proposing a solution here, you are. One that condemns millions of animals to death. I suspect, this being Thailand, that it is not an acceptable answer. I doubt there will be an acceptable answer until they find a way to immunize animals and sterilize them without actually having to catch and kill them. Sucks, but that is just the way I see it here in Thailand.

[eurasianthai]

As for those advocating killing all soi dogs, you're not human.

Well, as said before, I did not say that.

And yes, I'm human and place human life above dog life.

I guess it is wrong in your eyes and quite a few others but well this how it should be, I think.

And I think I should not have started a thread about dogs (I have 2, by the way)...

Edited February 23, 2010 by eurasianthai

[F1fanatic]

As for those advocating killing all soi dogs, you're not human.

Well, as said before, I did not say that.

And yes, I'm human and place human life above dog life.

I guess it is wrong in your eyes and quite a few others but well this how it should be, I think.

And I think I should not have started a thread about dogs (I have 2, by the way)...

Others replying to your post have said that.

If you think all the starving, uncared for soi dogs should be killed then you really shouldn't have dogs. You obviously have no empathy for dogs at all.

As I said before, its incredibly unusual for soi dogs to be aggressive, they are 99% of the time v wary of people (for good reason) and keep away from them.

[NADTATIDA1]

Sorry, but it is not what "all nations do".

But really why did you shy away from saying that what you want Thailand to do is round up dogs and cats by the millions and kill them?

and again --- who should do this?

There should be worldwide vaccination of domestic dogs simple as that.And if any dogs are not given the course shots then yes,have them put down or sell them to the Cambodians for dinner.like it or not that is a fact of life.I think most people who want to keep an animal as a pet,do take good care of it and take it to the vets even thais,vets do tour the villages giving out injections so it is being done in the sticks also.

Jd ...thats what governments are for national and local! who else makes the decisions?

[poldebol]

Many soi dogs are sick. They have skin diseases, parasites, bowel problems etc. If Thai like to have the dogs in their soi, that is fine with me. But a little bit of responsability would imply that one takes care of the most prevalent diseases. One of the most common forms of contamination of rabies in Thailand is from puppies to children.

I have seen a a beautiful retriever with a broken leg (open wound) near the veterinarian faculty in Khon Kaen. My wife gave them a call and asked if they could not provide some help for wounded street dogs, after all it might be some good practice for the students. Not possible of course. Two weeks later, the full faculty was out in full force at a dog show, giving free advice to poodle owners and selling heaps of very special and very expensive dog food.

Many dogs live in teh wats. Actually, Thai people go to a wat if they want to have a puppy. Some wats take good care of the dogs and in my experience (one exception) dogs at a wat are not aggressive.

[F1fanatic]

Sorry, but it is not what "all nations do".

But really why did you shy away from saying that what you want Thailand to do is round up dogs and cats by the millions and kill them?

and again --- who should do this?

There should be worldwide vaccination of domestic dogs simple as that.And if any dogs are not given the course shots then yes,have them put down or sell them to the Cambodians for dinner.like it or not that is a fact of life.I think most people who want to keep an animal as a pet,do take good care of it and take it to the vets even thais,vets do tour the villages giving out injections so it is being done in the sticks also.

Jd ...thats what governments are for national and local! who else makes the decisions?

Somebody else who is so convinced of their own superiority they believe that anything that annoys them should be eliminated.

I will never understand it, but that's why the world is the way it is now - being slowly destroyed.

Alternatives to killing have been pointed out - pepper spray. But there are still those who would prefer to kill an annoyance....

Edited February 23, 2010 by F1fanatic

[SeanMoran]

I did not say you have to kill them, I said you have to find a way for them to be off the street.

And if you don't, you indeed have to kill them.

What is your alternative?

Letting soi dogs living a miserable life in the streets and if unlucky, getting rabies and killing a few people?

Sorry, but it does not make sense to me...

Rabies cures itself in that way, as you mentioned in the OP. Don't bite the dogs.

[jdinasia]

As for those advocating killing all soi dogs, you're not human.

Well, as said before, I did not say that.

You implied it in post #5 and stated it in post #7.

I still don't think killing MILLIONS of dogs and cats in BKK alone, much less the rest of the country, is an acceptable option in Thailand. Then when rabies isn't stamped out you can start killing bats and other wiild-life, is that OK?

While I do value human life ... I don't think I value it at the exchange rate of 1 million dogs and cats to one human life. I also think that ... hmmmm .... there is a vaccine for rabies. That education for ALL people in Thailand is important as are free (absolutely free -- from any source) vaccinations when bitten etc by any animal.

[eurasianthai]

If Thai like to have the dogs in their soi, that is fine with me

Thai people just do not want to take any action to get them out of theirs sois.

And to be taken cared of.

Because , well, they just do no care about dogs.

It is of no importance to them, so why should they spend money to get them out of the streets?

This is not OK with me.

But surprisingly, it seems to be OK for so called dog lovers from the farang world.

This really beats me...

[SeanMoran]

If Thai like to have the dogs in their soi, that is fine with me

Thai people just do not want to take any action to get them out of theirs sois.

And to be taken cared of.

Because , well, they just do no care about dogs.

It is of no importance to them, so why should they spend money to get them out of the streets?

This is not OK with me.

But surprisingly, it seems to be OK for so called dog lovers from the farang world.

This really beats me...

If a dog has rabies, it will be gone before long without any need for external influence.

\

[F1fanatic]

If Thai like to have the dogs in their soi, that is fine with me

Thai people just do not want to take any action to get them out of theirs sois.

And to be taken cared of.

Because , well, they just do no care about dogs.

It is of no importance to them, so why should they spend money to get them out of the streets?

This is not OK with me.

But surprisingly, it seems to be OK for so called dog lovers from the farang world.

This really beats me...

Its not OK for any dog-loving farang.

BUT, the only (humane) solution is sterilisation - not wholesale murder for lots of inoffensive dogs that have already drawn the short-straw in life.

[eurasianthai]

Right Sean Moran, and hopefully, it won't bite anyone before going.

Edited February 23, 2010 by eurasianthai

[F1fanatic]

Right Sean Moran, and hopefully, it won't bite anyone before going.

The only time I've been bitten was by a Lab/retriever mix - not a soi dog.

Soi dogs are inoffensive in the extreme 99% of the time.

[SeanMoran]

Right Sean Moran, and hopefully, it won't bite anyone before going.

The only time I've been bitten was by a Lab/retriever mix - not a soi dog.

Soi dogs are inoffensive in the extreme 99% of the time.

Soi dogs with rabies only bite rotten people with poor personal hygiene, so don't worry. Nobody here on this little forum has anything to fear, as long as we don't bite them.

[NADTATIDA1]

Sorry, but it is not what "all nations do".

But really why did you shy away from saying that what you want Thailand to do is round up dogs and cats by the millions and kill them?

and again --- who should do this?

There should be worldwide vaccination of domestic dogs simple as that.And if any dogs are not given the course shots then yes,have them put down or sell them to the Cambodians for dinner.like it or not that is a fact of life.I think most people who want to keep an animal as a pet,do take good care of it and take it to the vets even thais,vets do tour the villages giving out injections so it is being done in the sticks also.

Jd ...thats what governments are for national and local! who else makes the decisions?

Somebody else who is so convinced of their own superiority they believe that anything that annoys them should be eliminated.

I will never understand it, but that's why the world is the way it is now - being slowly destroyed.

Alternatives to killing have been pointed out - pepper spray. But there are still those who would prefer to kill an annoyance....

I am superior to a stray soi dog yes i agree! but i must take you up on the point you make of me being annoyed with animals!! to the point of killing them.Thats not what i said,keep up and stop making things up as you go along

pepper spray what is that going to solve?

[F1fanatic]

Sorry, but it is not what "all nations do".

But really why did you shy away from saying that what you want Thailand to do is round up dogs and cats by the millions and kill them?

and again --- who should do this?

There should be worldwide vaccination of domestic dogs simple as that.And if any dogs are not given the course shots then yes,have them put down or sell them to the Cambodians for dinner.like it or not that is a fact of life.I think most people who want to keep an animal as a pet,do take good care of it and take it to the vets even thais,vets do tour the villages giving out injections so it is being done in the sticks also.

Jd ...thats what governments are for national and local! who else makes the decisions?

Somebody else who is so convinced of their own superiority they believe that anything that annoys them should be eliminated.

I will never understand it, but that's why the world is the way it is now - being slowly destroyed.

Alternatives to killing have been pointed out - pepper spray. But there are still those who would prefer to kill an annoyance....

I am superior to a stray soi dog yes i agree! but i must take you up on the point you make of me being annoyed with animals!! to the point of killing them.Thats not what i said,keep up and stop making things up as you go along

pepper spray what is that going to solve?

Your belief that you are superior to a soi dog will be shared by many - but personally anybody who believes they are SO superior is, (in my view) way inferior.

As I keep pointing out, its v rare to be bitten by a soi dog, so anyone who is advocating killing them all on the basis that one of them may have the nerve to bite someone, has no point - but is just annoyed that they are there.

Pepper spray solves ANY potential problem with a dog. I've proven it - they run a mile.

[anthoma]

Two days ago som people from goverment came to our street and vaccinated all the dogs against rabies. We live in a small village in Isaan. So they are trying to do something about it.

[SeanMoran]

Two days ago som people from goverment came to our street and vaccinated all the dogs against rabies. We live in a small village in Isaan. So they are trying to do something about it.

I cast all my cynicism aside on that note. Great news to hear that something proactive yet not overly intrusive on the freedom of the other animal is being done. Cheers to the government for taking fair action to solve a problem without harming those at the coalface.

[NADTATIDA1]

Ok...glad to hear about the spray! just to put you in the picture as to what happens in the vast majority of Thailand a dog is given 1 chance the same as in other parts of the world if it bites a second time it is put down or as i said before sold for eating.

Rabies or no rabies ok.

I think all animals should be innoculated against anything they could pass on to humans,most people like to have a dog and take care of it,same as i do!

My dog i rescued below "Obama" i found in the rice fields with a broken leg,as you can see he has just had one of his jabs here! picture of health now!!

Edited February 23, 2010 by NADTATIDA1

[F1fanatic]

Ok...glad to hear about the spray! just to put you in the picture as to what happens in the vast majority of Thailand a dog is given 1 chance the same as in other parts of the world if it bites a second time it is put down or as i said before sold for eating.

Rabies or no rabies ok.

I think all animals should be innoculated against anything they could pass on to humans,most people like to have a dog and take care of it,same as i do!

My dog i rescued below "Obama" i found in the rice fields with a broken leg,as you can see he has just had one of his jabs here! picture of health now!!

I'm sure that all dog lovers agree.

The problem is that most Thais don't see it the same way. They like having a dog around, but are not about to spend money on vaccinations etc.

I came across a soi dog on Xmas day that was obviously starving and v ill. The locals told me that they tried feeding her but she wouldn't eat. I went to the local 7-11 and got some ham which she wolfed down.

To cut a long story short, I took her to the vet and she had pneumonia (and was starving to death). The locals presumably had been offering her their spiced left-overs, which she wasn't in any state to eat.

Happy ending though, she's the best Christmas present I ever received! After a week at the vets she came back with me and is the softest, gentlest dog you could hope to meet.

[bina]

some articles to read about rabies in thailand: btw, in israel we have a high rabies rate among pariah dogs and therefore among pet dogs since most of us have pets that run loose in farming areas and are in contact with foxes and jackals. so the govmt' has a anti rabies vaccine run every 6 months in back country areas, not free but u get a liscense. and meat is put out in areas where wild carnivores will eat it, with rabies vaccine int he meat. apparently affective enough to be used as a repeat project.

anyhow:

Immune response to rabies vaccine in Thai dogs: A preliminary report (search for the article

Rabies and dog population control in Thailand: success or failure

Rabies exposures in Thai children

CHITSANU PANCHAROEN, MD; USA THISYAKORN, MD; WEERASAK LAWTONGKUM, MD; HENRY WILDE, MD

http://www.rabies-vaccination.com/documents/Field_application_for_oral_rabies_vaccines_for_dogs.pdf

to be read for discussion. people are speaking with emotion rather then with facts.

rabies is a real problem. it does kill people. it can be controlled. education is one asnwer. govt' vaccine projects with incentives and fines for those that dont comply could be used. thailand is not america. compliance would be about the same as in israel (non willing compliance among most groups apart from the more 'western' 'educated' groups. mandatory vaccines are done if teh dog is picked up and not registered, u dont see your dog again. dogs here are picked up and killed (they dont stay very long in the holding area). horses, goats and other livestock must also be vaccined. this year,, someon got bitten by a jenny (female dongkey) and died of rabies. rare but happens.

btw, f1fanatic, here, if an animal refuses to eat, and looks sickly and doesnt seem to have been owned (no collar or other mark that shows ownership) , our advice (from vets, got vets) is assume the animal is apotential rabies carrier and therfore: DONT TOUCH OR HANDLE. the chance that an animal has rabies is high if exhibiting signs of not wanting to eat or drink. (rabid animals dont run around and act crazy. sometimes they jsut stand and barely move. there are different phases in rabies and different animals react differently to rabies.

moving to petvet forum for non combative discussion .

bina

israel

[F1fanatic]

some articles to read about rabies in thailand: btw, in israel we have a high rabies rate among pariah dogs and therefore among pet dogs since most of us have pets that run loose in farming areas and are in contact with foxes and jackals. so the govmt' has a anti rabies vaccine run every 6 months in back country areas, not free but u get a liscense. and meat is put out in areas where wild carnivores will eat it, with rabies vaccine int he meat. apparently affective enough to be used as a repeat project.

anyhow:

Immune response to rabies vaccine in Thai dogs: A preliminary report (search for the article

Rabies and dog population control in Thailand: success or failure

Rabies exposures in Thai children

CHITSANU PANCHAROEN, MD; USA THISYAKORN, MD; WEERASAK LAWTONGKUM, MD; HENRY WILDE, MD

http://www.rabies-vaccination.com/documents/Field_application_for_oral_rabies_vaccines_for_dogs.pdf

to be read for discussion. people are speaking with emotion rather then with facts.

rabies is a real problem. it does kill people. it can be controlled. education is one asnwer. govt' vaccine projects with incentives and fines for those that dont comply could be used. thailand is not america. compliance would be about the same as in israel (non willing compliance among most groups apart from the more 'western' 'educated' groups. mandatory vaccines are done if teh dog is picked up and not registered, u dont see your dog again. dogs here are picked up and killed (they dont stay very long in the holding area). horses, goats and other livestock must also be vaccined. this year,, someon got bitten by a jenny (female dongkey) and died of rabies. rare but happens.

btw, f1fanatic, here, if an animal refuses to eat, and looks sickly and doesnt seem to have been owned (no collar or other mark that shows ownership) , our advice (from vets, got vets) is assume the animal is apotential rabies carrier and therfore: DONT TOUCH OR HANDLE. the chance that an animal has rabies is high if exhibiting signs of not wanting to eat or drink. (rabid animals dont run around and act crazy. sometimes they jsut stand and barely move. there are different phases in rabies and different animals react differently to rabies.

moving to petvet forum for non combative discussion .

bina

israel

Yes, but fortunately there's no rabies on Phuket anymore. And, as I said, it was the locals telling me she wouldn't eat - as soon as I offered ham she wolfed it down. That was how I could get her to the vets so easily - I placed ham in my samlaw and kept putting more further up the samlaw until she was standing in it. Once she was there I just put a lead on and tied her in. Easy. She was so weak she didn't even fight, just laid down whilst I took her to the vets.