Work Permits, Visas And The Wrath Of Immigration

[polecat]

Have recently learned that I may be about to get stung for up to 20k, and wonder if any of you TV types might have a firmer grasp of bureaucratic shenanigans than I (not difficult).

Here's 'me nutshell':

Left a job in March, for which I had a work permit (tho I think they cancelled the little blue book in January)

Have carried on using the accompanying 1 year non-imm visa which is valid till August

Acquired a re-entry permit, left Thailand and returned on same visa with said re-entry permit.

Now I'm hearing that I should have cancelled my visa as soon as the work permit got cancelled, and will now be liable for stacks of tea-money.

Any light shed would be greeted with a virtual pint and eternal respect.

p/c

[lopburi3]

As you say you obtained a re entry permit it must mean you did not have a valid visa (multi entry one year visa would not require this) but have been here on an extension of stay for work. If your work permit was canceled in January you are indeed well into overstay territory and should plan an airport exit ASAP. Have at least 20k with you in case you are found out and have to pay fine (it is not tea money but a valid fine for overstay - the going rate being 200 baht per day up to 20k). With a bit of luck you may avoid payment/red overstay stamps but the longer you wait the greater the chance you will be found out.

[polecat]

Cheers Lopper,

dang! that's what I feared.

the re-entry permit was needed because my visa was only single entry - the Kunming gang are loathe to issue multiples for some reason. Do you think my old employers are in some way responsible as they cancelled my permit before I stopped working for them? (clutching at straws as 20k is a big ask personally)

[lopburi3]

That single entry visa would have covered you for only 90 days so if you have been here more than that you must have obtained an extension of stay (that is not a visa but a stamp from immigration). If you had only a single entry visa and were/are still within the 90 day stay allowed by that visa you are in the clear and can stay until that 90 day stay is finished.

[polecat]

Cheers Lop3, you're obviously a cat who's been through the mangle a few times yerself

[Ajarn]

Unless the old company notified immigration, who is to know to hassle you? Why not simply leave and get a new visa?

It makes sense for the job to cancel your WP because they have a limited number alloted, but with the visa, it's no sweat off them, it seems, so if they haven't notified immigration directly, it doesn't seem likely for you to have problems unless you spill the beans to them yourself...

Anyway. I'd just leave, and start over...

[samran]

I agree with Ajarn. My wife left her job in August 03 but her visa was still valid though to May of 04. She came and went from Thailand with no worries, each time being stamped in till May 04.

If immigration haven't pulled you up on entering Thailand, then you should be right.

[polecat]

That makes sense, I guess Mum's the word. Fingers crossed til August then. Presumably I'll still have to do my 90 days signing though.

many thanks and virtual beers for the advice

p/c

[patricktan]

Think about 200 baht per day. I also agree that you should leave now.

[Thetyim]

I agree with what has been said here. If your WP is cancelled then this will cancel your extension.

However I have just taken a friend to immigration as his WP had been cancelled and the immigration officier told him "no problem" you still have another two months left on your visa. Come back in June.

What can you do ?

[PeaceBlondie]

Does it matter whether you're on your first one-year non-imm B visa, or on an extension? In other words, since I now have a new non-imm B that won't expire till April 2006, can I get a WP, then have it cancelled, and still operate on my 90-day country-leaving stamps? Is it only the people who have stayed past a year on their one-year visa who have to leave the country and get a new visa if their WP is cancelled?

If the answer is 'yes,' then that's a distinct disadvantage of getting a WP, and staying in the country past the first year. The worker is at the mercy of the employer if he has to leave within 7 days, since it may take months to find a new employer (especially between school terms). And getting a good, new visa in not easy.

Legally, of course, one must have a WP, even if their employer refuses to give them one or help them to get one, whic is not uncommon for teachers. The laws of Thailand make it very difficult.

[lopburi3]

If you are here on a visa (i.e. 90 day stays) the work permit is not required to stay here. Only when the work permit has been used to obtain an extension of stay from an immigration office does it become an issue. On the other hand if you do not obtain an extension of stay you will never have more than a 90 day work permit as it is tied to the time you are allowed in the country. For the long haul you do want the extension of stay if you qualify for it (I would think).

[PeaceBlondie]

If you are here on a visa (i.e. 90 day stays) the work permit is not required to stay here.  Only when the work permit has been used to obtain an extension of stay from an immigration office does it become an issue.  On the other hand if you do not obtain an extension of stay you will never have more than a 90 day work permit as it is tied to the time you are allowed in the country.  For the long haul you do want the extension of stay if you qualify for it (I would think).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks, lopburi3; suddenly the light begins to dawn. I'm not working yet on this new 12-month visa, but are you saying that if I merely went to MoL and got a Work Permit, they'd only give me a permit to the end of my current 90 day period? In practice, would I make several trips between immigration and labour so that finally both the visa and the WP expire in April 2006, since that's when my non-imm B was going to expire? Then in April 2006 (when I very well could be unemployed again, between school terms), I could get the whole visa extended indefinitely, based upon having current, permitted work?

In this regard, it's difficult to believe that a half-developed, half-a**ed country like Thailand can make it so difficult to work in a place for less pay than what a college graduate can earn in virtually undeveloped countries. Maybe I won't bother to get a job in Thailand, even if I am a good teacher.

[qwertyuiop]

If you are here on a visa (i.e. 90 day stays) the work permit is not required to stay here.  Only when the work permit has been used to obtain an extension of stay from an immigration office does it become an issue.  On the other hand if you do not obtain an extension of stay you will never have more than a 90 day work permit as it is tied to the time you are allowed in the country.  For the long haul you do want the extension of stay if you qualify for it (I would think).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks, lopburi3; suddenly the light begins to dawn. I'm not working yet on this new 12-month visa, but are you saying that if I merely went to MoL and got a Work Permit, they'd only give me a permit to the end of my current 90 day period? In practice, would I make several trips between immigration and labour so that finally both the visa and the WP expire in April 2006, since that's when my non-imm B was going to expire? Then in April 2006 (when I very well could be unemployed again, between school terms), I could get the whole visa extended indefinitely, based upon having current, permitted work?

In this regard, it's difficult to believe that a half-developed, half-a**ed country like Thailand can make it so difficult to work in a place for less pay than what a college graduate can earn in virtually undeveloped countries. Maybe I won't bother to get a job in Thailand, even if I am a good teacher.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As to your first question. Yes.

There is even logic to it. You can not be given a work permit past the date you are permitted to stay in the country.

So if you have a 90 day entry stamp in your passport that date would be longest for which your work permit would be valid, even if your visa was a 1 year multiple entry.

The question that you ask at the end of your post as to what hapepns at the end of the validity of your visa. It is possible to ask within Thailand for a 1 year extension to stay in the country based upon the original "B" visa. This would mean that you would not ahve to elave the country for at least another year. However a requirement for this extension to be granted is a minimum salart. For US citizens this is 60,000 baht/month.

Also in practice this extension is never in my understanding automatically granted but rather it is stamped under considerarion for 1 month, which means you would also have to extend the work permit by the 1 month. This could happen 1 or 2 more times bffore the "1 year " extension is granted. This year would aslo include the 1,20r 3 monthly under consideration periods so in essence may only be 9/10 months

[Khutan]

This is very interesting, I have my WP done on my Non-O not a Non-B, I was told that the W/P can be cancelled, but the reason for the Visa is different, so they should not cancel my Non-O, as it was granted because I am married to a Thai.

Work that one out

[Crossy]

This is very interesting, I have my WP done on my Non-O not a Non-B, I was told that the W/P can be cancelled, but the reason for the Visa is different, so they should not cancel my Non-O, as it was granted because I am married to a Thai.

Work that one out 

Your visa (o) like mine is not linked to a work permit (it is linked to a wife) and so will not be cancelled when the permit finishes.

Just been through the same process at the end of a short consultancy contract (I normally work outside Thailand, this one just happened along whilst I was 'available').

I was slightly concerned that my extension of stay may get killed with the WP, but apparently no problem.

'B' visas are granted on the strength of a job offer, therefore when the job ends, so does the visa.

[paully]

However a requirement for this extension to be granted is a minimum salart. For US citizens this is 60,000 baht/month.

Also in practice this extension is never in my understanding automatically granted but rather it is stamped under considerarion for 1 month, which means you would also have to extend the work permit by the 1 month. This could happen 1 or 2 more times bffore the "1 year " extension is granted. This year would aslo include the 1,20r 3 monthly under consideration periods so in essence may only be 9/10 months

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There's no minimum salary requirement for teachers - in government schools, at least - to obtain an extension of leave to remain. The extension can be stamped 'under condsideration' for 1 month, but this is mostly where you are changing employers, not staying with the same one.

Getting back to Peaceblondie, if you wanted to go the work permit/extension of stay within Thailand route, PB, there's really no advantage in having a multiple-entry B visa: a single-entry can just be extended after the initial 90 days to cover the rest of the remaining time on the visa; then an extension of stay can be granted within the country based on a work permit/ contract. So you only need to leave the country once while your work lasts.

Edited May 16, 2005 by paully

[Khutan]

This is very interesting, I have my WP done on my Non-O not a Non-B, I was told that the W/P can be cancelled, but the reason for the Visa is different, so they should not cancel my Non-O, as it was granted because I am married to a Thai.

Work that one out 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your visa (o) like mine is not linked to a work permit (it is linked to a wife) and so will not be cancelled when the permit finishes.

Just been through the same process at the end of a short consultancy contract (I normally work outside Thailand, this one just happened along whilst I was 'available').

I was slightly concerned that my extension of stay may get killed with the WP, but apparently no problem.

'B' visas are granted on the strength of a job offer, therefore when the job ends, so does the visa.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry for all the quotes,

Crossy, what you say is sort of correct, but it was weird - it all happened in a few short hours.

Got the 3 month WP on the Non-O, got the Non-O extended 12 months, Got the WP extended to the same period. They did write my WP number in my passport with the 12 month extension.

BTW Cirencester - lovley part of the world. Great place to explore on weekends. I used to live in Cam Peak just up the road, with all the fantastic Pubs.