Thaksin Asset Case: Bt46 Billion Will Be Seized Along With Interests

[JetsetBkk]

Excellent verdict. I'd guessed they'd take about half. Seems fair.

Now lets get to work on all the other crooks running (ruining) the country.

[321niti123]

A 7hr verdict reading from what i heard, i know its atleast 3-4 hrs. Hope fully i can find a recorded version or a translated typed out version, if any one knows where i can find these please tell me.

[jdinasia]

I truly do not understand the headline " Guilty !" --- this was not a criminal trial ! Is this headline from the Nation? It is a misleading and inflammatory headline.

Now we must read the verdicts to understand the reasoning !

LannaRed,in your quote,you do not understand "GUILTY",No matter what kind of trial you deem it to be,it was a COURT OF LAW and so HE was charged for an act that was commited during his time in office and found " GUILTY " of that act, I hope this is a simple enough explanation for you to understand my friend.

The Law is The Law and the Courts are ALL Courts of the people of this great THAILAND.

Thank you for your kind lesson in jurisprudence -- however this case was an adversarial action between the government and the defendants, which include Mr. Thaksin and others -- it is a case which calls for a quantified verdict, which does not include guilt or innocence --- it was not a criminal prosecution, which calls for a decision of guilt or innocence -- if he is guilty, then by logical extension, he is 60.5 % guilty ( Bt46 Billion /Bt76 Billion) -- is this simple enough for you, my friend?

Yes, the Law is the Law -- and the Courts are charged with the responsibility to rule according to the Law.

...and Thailand will move forward and become great, with justice for all the people, both in court and outside the Court.

Ummmm I think you missed the decisions --- 5 guilty verdicts --- then the penalties

[Totster]

Ummmm I think you missed the decisions --- 5 guilty verdicts --- then the penalties

Yes the penalty seems huge.. however, think of it like this

You have ฿2000 in the bank, and someone fines you ฿1000

There it is in context

totster

[amarka]

Hi…

In my opinion the situation is fluid and today’s political decision can be easily overturned sometime in the future, depending on who is in power.

It’s a compromise for now, but will hopefully lead to a more peaceful political landscape in Thailand.

I support Thaksin, but believe that any return by him to Thai politics would rip the country to pieces; therefore I hope that he cannot find any way back and I hope that he can accept that this is the end for him. Even though he did do a lot of good for Thailand his reputation has been badly tarnished by some of the poorer decisions he made and I actually think the court has reached a good compromise, providing Thaksin can keep the balance of his wealth.

It is a way out for Thaksin and a way forward for the country and I hope that he has the dignity to accept that his return to Thailand and politics would not be in the best interest of the people he once served.

Time to move on.

amarka

Process-wise, does Thaksin have any rights to appeal the decision to any higher level of Thai court??? Or is this verdict the last stop on the judicial circuit???

Most certainly, if he has or can find any recourse whatsoever, it would seem most likely he will pursue it...

Not many people, especially Thaksin, are likely to willingly accept a verdict taking 46 billion baht out of their pockets...

P.S. - My question does not imply any support for the individual involved. I'm just hoping somewhere, somehow this can all be put behind the country for its own good and future. There has to be an end somewhere....

[Tigs]

To an ordinary Thai, 5% of your net worth is akin to losing a 500,000 baht vehicle that wasn't properly insured, it hurts but you accept it and move on.

I am not sure you are living in the same Thailand as I am. So you think the average Thai is worth 10 Million Baht?

As for the verdict, it is all much ado about nothing. The courts have done an honest commendable job, but this is the best outcome Thaksin could have hoped for. He is lucky to be left with 30 Billion, and lets face it, I think most of us could live pretty comfortably on that. He should be mighty relieved tonight.

[rainman]

Ummmm I think you missed the decisions --- 5 guilty verdicts --- then the penalties

Yes the penalty seems huge.. however, think of it like this

You have ฿2000 in the bank, and someone fines you ฿1000

There it is in context

totster

You need to remember that not everybody on this forum understands this kind of advanced math.

[silk]

The court has presented its verdict. It has done a good job of showing the evidence, and explaining why it came to that verdict. Agree with the final decision or not, but the evidence of his abuse of power is there. Nowhere in that evidence can I see any reference to how Thaksin got himself elected, who loves him, how he was overthrown, who is PM now, or what the PAD did in the past. They have nothing to do with this case, yet we continue to get the confused, the ignorant and the down right trollish coming on this thread posting their meaningless propaganda. Give it a rest guys, if you can't make a comment here on the court's decision then it's best not to comment at all.

You are right, court has decided, provided proof, details which we will not be able to evaluate on this board.

[hammered]

Hi…

In my opinion the situation is fluid and today’s political decision can be easily overturned sometime in the future, depending on who is in power.

It’s a compromise for now, but will hopefully lead to a more peaceful political landscape in Thailand.

I support Thaksin, but believe that any return by him to Thai politics would rip the country to pieces; therefore I hope that he cannot find any way back and I hope that he can accept that this is the end for him. Even though he did do a lot of good for Thailand his reputation has been badly tarnished by some of the poorer decisions he made and I actually think the court has reached a good compromise, providing Thaksin can keep the balance of his wealth.

It is a way out for Thaksin and a way forward for the country and I hope that he has the dignity to accept that his return to Thailand and politics would not be in the best interest of the people he once served.

Time to move on.

amarka

Process-wise, does Thaksin have any rights to appeal the decision to any higher level of Thai court??? Or is this verdict the last stop on the judicial circuit???

Most certainly, if he has or can find any recourse whatsoever, it would seem most likely he will pursue it...

Not many people, especially Thaksin, are likely to willingly accept a verdict taking 46 billion baht out of their pockets...

P.S. - My question does not imply any support for the individual involved. I'm just hoping somewhere, somehow this can all be put behind the country for its own good and future. There has to be an end somewhere....

Thoughtful comment

[LannaRed]

I truly do not understand the headline " Guilty !" --- this was not a criminal trial ! Is this headline from the Nation? It is a misleading and inflammatory headline.

Now we must read the verdicts to understand the reasoning !

LannaRed,in your quote,you do not understand "GUILTY",No matter what kind of trial you deem it to be,it was a COURT OF LAW and so HE was charged for an act that was commited during his time in office and found " GUILTY " of that act, I hope this is a simple enough explanation for you to understand my friend.

The Law is The Law and the Courts are ALL Courts of the people of this great THAILAND.

Thank you for your kind lesson in jurisprudence -- however this case was an adversarial action between the government and the defendants, which include Mr. Thaksin and others -- it is a case which calls for a quantified verdict, which does not include guilt or innocence --- it was not a criminal prosecution, which calls for a decision of guilt or innocence -- if he is guilty, then by logical extension, he is 60.5 % guilty ( Bt46 Billion /Bt76 Billion) -- is this simple enough for you, my friend?

Yes, the Law is the Law -- and the Courts are charged with the responsibility to rule according to the Law.

...and Thailand will move forward and become great, with justice for all the people, both in court and outside the Court.

Ummmm I think you missed the decisions --- 5 guilty verdicts --- then the penalties

Did not miss a thing ! --- a majority verdict in favor of the plaintiff and judgment in the amount of Bt 46 Billion plus interest against the defendant ! --- of what charge was he found "guilty " ?

Edited February 26, 2010 by LannaRed

[hammered]

Did not miss a thing ! --- a majority verdict in favor of the plaintiff and judgment in the amount of Bt 46 Billion plus interest against the defendant ! --- of what charge was he found "guilty " ?

eh if not found guilty of anything there wouldnt have been a judgement. This was a criminal court not a civil one. If you want the full details why not wait until Monday when the they wiull be posted on the courts website rather than currently sketchy reports and tweets. It isnt very long. In the meantime have a good weekend

[Totster]

Did not miss a thing ! --- a majority verdict in favor of the plaintiff and judgment in the amount of Bt 46 Billion plus interest against the defendant ! --- of what charge was he found "guilty " ?

eh if not found guilty of anything there wouldnt have been a judgement. This was a criminal court not a civil one. If you want the full details why not wait until Monday when the they wiull be posted on the courts website rather than currently sketchy reports and tweets. It isnt very long. In the meantime have a good weekend

A criminal being accused by criminals ?

totster

[hammered]

Did not miss a thing ! --- a majority verdict in favor of the plaintiff and judgment in the amount of Bt 46 Billion plus interest against the defendant ! --- of what charge was he found "guilty " ?

eh if not found guilty of anything there wouldnt have been a judgement. This was a criminal court not a civil one. If you want the full details why not wait until Monday when the they wiull be posted on the courts website rather than currently sketchy reports and tweets. It isnt very long. In the meantime have a good weekend

A criminal being accused by criminals ?

totster

yep u got me smilin too

[yesdavy]

Forty six billion baht is a lot of money to anyone, Thai or American, so it's not surprising Thaksin is fighting tooth and nail over it.

But putting it in context it amounts to just 5% of his estimated net worth. Prior to assuming the premiership, Thaksin and family declared net worth of 500 billion baht according to newspaper articles, by 2006 that might have been worth 700 billion (unless the newspaper misprinted and meant 50 billion).

Thaksin is a gambler, where a billion baht spent on a business venture or stock speculation or election campaign might go either way. The business of politics is the same, and he must have known the risks involved in his dishonest policy making, and now he's lost some. To an ordinary Thai, 5% of your net worth is akin to losing a 500,000 baht vehicle that wasn't properly insured, it hurts but you accept it and move on. Considering the man ran the risk of avoiding a 20% tax bill on the Shin sale, I can only assume it is sheer greed that keeps him snarled up in this national heartache.

LOL, ordinary Thais losing a 500,000 baht vehicle is only 5% of their 10 million baht net worth. Are you vacationing here?

[IvanDobsky]

46 Billion is small change. The 76b is not his total fortune.

I read somewhere that in 2007 he had 530 Billion baht. Yes, 530. It may have been more, because these "rich lists" never tell the whole story. Sure, he may have lost some of that with football clubs, but we are talking smaller sums.

Anyone with his money and acumen will have made sure that a large lump is in Bermuda or a Basel bank and that it was spread around ages ago into all sorts of offshore places and ghost companies. He may be chuckling now.

This is speculation on my part, and should not be taken as criticism or legal fact. But, anybody who thinks that he will be eating boiled race next week is badly mistaken

Eddy

One football club He sold Manchester City with a massive profit.

That's right, it was just the one football club. He did try to buy Liverpool FC but his bid was rejected based on the fact that it wasn't his money.

He did make a 'massive' profit from Manchester City FC but what was it only the football club that was sold?

I can't provide a link, but using a search engine, try entering middle east or gulf states buy Thai farmland. Nothing proven of course, and I'm certainly not making the allegation. It just seems plausible.

I hope the reds off to my left and the yellows off to my right take the time and trouble to read the justices' deliberation before denigrating it.

[ThaksinKharma]

Hear Hear. Hopefully the great man will return to his rightful place in Thailand soon.

I agree. He needs to return to assume his rightful place in a Thai prison.

As does Potjaman needs to assume her rightful place in Thai prison as well for her separate conviction. Her also convicted brother could share the cell with Thaksin.

[DickFarang]

I think Mr. Thaksin Shinawatra makes a good chance at the United Nations Human Rights Council (formerly the United Nations Commission on Human Rights).

He can argue that he was elected democratically and deposed by a military coup.

If he cannot appeal in Thailand, he can also argue that he did not get a fair trial.

[Fishman1967]

Any chance for appeal?

Surely his lawyer is speaking on his behave and this decision was made without his presence.

[moskito]

Excellent verdict. I'd guessed they'd take about half. Seems fair.

Now lets get to work on all the other crooks running (ruining) the country.

thx JetsetBkk, THATS the message I get out of today! .....hopefully the "other crooks" get it too unfortunately hard to belive!

[Totster]

Any chance for appeal?

Surely his lawyer is speaking on his behave and this decision was made without his presence.

Whats the point ?

He still has more money than most in the world.. he can still carry on regardless

totster

[rainman]

What would be interesting to know is, how will "Thailand" (I use quotes because Thailand would include the Thai people, but they really don't get any of the money, so...) will use the 1.4 billion dollars. Will it be used to help the Thai people who live in poverty? Or will it simply disappear into the back pockets of all the people involved in the witch-hunt?

[IvanDobsky]

I think Mr. Thaksin Shinawatra makes a good chance at the United Nations Human Rights Council (formerly the United Nations Commission on Human Rights).

He can argue that he was elected democratically and deposed by a military coup.

If he cannot appeal in Thailand, he can also argue that he did not get a fair trial.

quite possibly, looking at some of the member states

[silk]

What would be interesting to know is, how will "Thailand" (I use quotes because Thailand would include the Thai people, but they really don't get any of the money, so...) will use the 1.4 billion dollars. Will it be used to help the Thai people who live in poverty? Or will it simply disappear into the back pockets of all the people involved in the witch-hunt?

In my opinion, fair would be to return it to people who paid taxes in the first palce and then it could be used for improvement of the social system.

[ThaksinKharma]

Hear Hear. Hopefully the great man will return to his rightful place in Thailand soon.

I agree. He needs to return to assume his rightful place in a Thai prison.

As does Potjaman needs to assume her rightful place in Thai prison as well for her separate conviction. Her also convicted brother could share the cell with Thaksin.

Yeah right. If that ever happened the chaos that has come before in Thailand would be small change compared to what would happen.

OR

the beginning of the end to the status quo of corruption.

Let it start with them and hold every subsequent corrupt official to the same standard.

Otherwise there will no change.

[rainman]

What would be interesting to know is, how will "Thailand" (I use quotes because Thailand would include the Thai people, but they really don't get any of the money, so...) will use the 1.4 billion dollars. Will it be used to help the Thai people who live in poverty? Or will it simply disappear into the back pockets of all the people involved in the witch-hunt?

In my opinion, fair would be to return it to people who paid taxes in the first palce and then it could be used for improvement of the social system.

I somehow doubt that every Thai will get an additional 600 Baht cheque in the mail on the 1st of next month.

[jdinasia]

Was Thaksin convicted of holding stocks and shares? He was found to have used nominees to hide his ownership of them, right? Or was he convicted for abusing his power to influence the value of those stocks and shares ..... not a very subtle difference.

Yes Thaksin did a little good and a WHOLE MESS of Bad! The thing is people want to ignore the bad and just see the good. Talk about rose-colored glasses! All the crap he pulled is really for other threads ... this thread is about him stealing from Thailand and getting caught. This thread is about a very wise (should one say Solomonesque?) decision by the courts that detailed EVERY point of the case that was in front of them and gave their rulings.

Thaksin loses 46 billion baht and the other 30 stays frozen pending other cases and and determination of costs and interest.

[rainman]

Thaksin loses 46 billion baht and the other 30 stays frozen pending other cases and and determination of costs and interest.

Care to show me where it says they stay frozen?

[ding]

Given the sensible posting rules, and our respect for Thai law and the Thai judiciary - I have a question about possible red shirt activity in the future:

Ya think this is gonna stop their shenanigans?

Edited February 26, 2010 by ding

[rainman]

Thaksin loses 46 billion baht and the other 30 stays frozen pending other cases and and determination of costs and interest.

According to the official statement released:

"The judges said the remaining frozen assets worth Bt39.7 billion will be returned to Mr Thaksin and his ex-wife Pojaman na Pombejra for the sake of fairness as the assets had been acquired before Mr Thaksin became prime minister in 2001."

Sounds like the high court of Thailand has overruled your wishful thinking.

[jdinasia]

Thaksin loses 46 billion baht and the other 30 stays frozen pending other cases and and determination of costs and interest.

Care to show me where it says they stay frozen?

ah yes ..... do you read anything in the forums or do you just jump in with your slams against the court or anyone that thinks Thaksin needs to pay for his crimes?

anyways this is from one of the first couple of posts in the thread (refuting your claim that Thaksin was convicted of having stocks/shares .....)

The judges said in the ruling read out on national television and radio that Thaksin had "used his power in favour of Shin Corp" and that the profit from the sale "is wealth acquired through inappropriate means," they said.

The court ruled that Thaksin illegally hid his ownership of shares in Shin Corp during his two terms as prime minister, despite saying that he had transferred them to his family.

Post 7 in this thread has the quote but not the link for the 30bil still being frozen. The other thread had the link ... this thread should have 2-3 more with why ....