Lobby Group Foreigners In Thailand

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I voted NO......

The stronger buying power of farangs makes it unworkable.....before long farangs would own the country....

The guys who voted yes I suspect are likely to want to develop large property interests to give them more power over the local population....After all, why be the big farang of a village when you can be the big farang of a province.

The current laws are in place to protect the Thai people, the Nation and its heritage and culture....This should not change and anyone who has the interests of the Thai people at heart would agree.

Any Aussies remember when the Japs started buying up in Oz..???....It started a huge outcry.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And created the updated Foreign Investment Review Board

[cathyy]

Being constructive though - if you said ...

'10 years residency plus Thai spouse, with income taxes being paid throughout that time, gives you the right to buy one rai, with capital gains tax liability on resale profits'

.... that might be dilute enough to work !

So what about a farang couple?

As much as my husband and I are personally inconvenienced by not being allowed to have the title to our home in our names, I am in favor of only the most rigorously restricted land ownership by farangs. I would not be in favor of any change to the laws allowing farangs to own land unless it was restricted to residential property only, and not more than a rai in size. Also only one piece of land per family.

Given a choice between open land ownership for farangs and the current situation, I choose the current situation!

[Gary A]

I am a guest in this wonderful country and as such feel that how the laws are written are entirely up to the Thai people. I own my own condo, a pick up truck, motorcycle and enjoy the very economical cost of living.

I have three rules I live by;

I keep a very low profile.

I stay out of affairs that don't concern me.

I never get between a Thai and his rice bowl.

It works for me and I hope to be able to stay in Thailand for what is left of the rest of my life. Life within the system is pretty darn good!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I am a guest in this wonderful country and as such feel that how the laws are written are entirely up to the Thai people. I own my own condo, a pick up truck, motorcycle and enjoy the very economical cost of living.

I have three rules I live by;

I keep a very low profile.

I stay out of affairs that don't concern me.

I never get between a Thai and his rice bowl.

It works for me and I hope to be able to stay in Thailand for what is left of the rest of my life. Life within the system is pretty darn good!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed

[boris]

too much foriegn ownership will just raise prices and put most land out of the reach of ordinary thais.

this has already happened in place like samui and phuket and i've no doubt other places too , and thats with all the ownership restrictions.

the average thai just cant compete.

remove some or all restrictions on foriegn ownership and sooner or later there will be a backlash.

i've heard plenty of "murmurings" already from samui people about how the island has been taken over by falangs and that they cant even afford a small piece of land to put up a modest house anymore. thats how racism starts.

if restrictions are removed then prices will shoot through the roof as thais will sell to foriegners preferentially.

joint ownership for couples with lifetime rights for the man in the event of the death of the wife and reversion back to the wifes family or the kids upon the mans death is the way to go , and i think that this can already be legally arranged.

single men will just have to buy condos or rent or go the company leasehold route.

as for an organised lobby to badger the government ?

do you really think that they will take it seriously.

this is not a western style democracy with pressure groups and freedom of speech as we know it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What planet are you living on? Locals are finding difficulties in Samui and Phuket because of the activities of Sino-Thai corporate muscle, not foreign capital.The average Thai "ther" possibly can't compete with his business minded compatriots but Farangs are not an issue.This whole thread is a comical example of resident farang foreigners' tendency to take themselves and their "problems" too seriously in the Thai context.We simply don't matter very much.Having said that my view is that all restrictions on foreign ownership should be removed -not just property and land but shares as well.There needs to be some care taken of vulnerable local interests but a level playing field would actually be in the interest of most Thais.But it will probably never happen because local vested interests control the political process.

[penelope]

I have three rules I live by;

I keep a very low profile.

I stay out of affairs that don't concern me.

I never get between a Thai and his rice bowl.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

good wisdom.

another i might add is.."be able to adapt". I usually find it easy to adapt myself to the situation rather than trying to make the situation adapt to me.

[lampard10]

The ayes and the noes both have a lot going for them. Very good subject,very good response. It will make some very good reading when all the replies are in and sorted. With a debate like this,I can see people changing sides all the time. Maybe we should have a re-think vote in abouts a weeks time. I must say my initial response was in pre-meditation to all the rubbish replies that normally accompany a theme like this,but happily there has not been one of our usual p1ss takers evident so far. Good response about Farang couple. One more thing that no-body thought of.

[mouse]

So maybe it is time to take this to the next level. I will keep my vote private but, if there is someone that wants to start a website on this matter, let me know and I will arrange for free web hosting for such a website.

There now you have my $50 contribution. Once the site is up and running I may even give you my opinion. The only request is that it is kept respectful to the nation, the people and the oposition, totally above board and that all members remember that they are guests here. If these rules are not followed then I would pull my support.

I feel that even though we are being taxed in a round about manner through purchases, spouses, other expenditures in Thailand etc., and there is nothing wrong in trying to get a little representation for that taxation.

[lampard10]

So maybe it is time to take this to the next level.  I will keep my vote private but, if there is someone that wants to start a website on this matter, let me  know and I will arrange for free web hosting for such a website. 

There now you have my $50 contribution.  Once the site is up and running I may even give you my opinion.  The only request is that it is kept respectful to the nation, the people and the oposition, totally above board and that all members remember that they are guests here.  If these rules are not followed then I would pull my support.

I feel that even though we are being taxed in a round about manner through purchases, spouses, other expenditures in Thailand etc., and there is nothing wrong in trying to get a little representation for that taxation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually as I pay Thai income tax, it might be nice to own what I am being taxed on.

[penelope]

So maybe it is time to take this to the next level.  I will keep my vote private but, if there is someone that wants to start a website on this matter, let me  know and I will arrange for free web hosting for such a website. 

There now you have my $50 contribution.  Once the site is up and running I may even give you my opinion.  The only request is that it is kept respectful to the nation, the people and the oposition, totally above board and that all members remember that they are guests here.  If these rules are not followed then I would pull my support.

I feel that even though we are being taxed in a round about manner through purchases, spouses, other expenditures in Thailand etc., and there is nothing wrong in trying to get a little representation for that taxation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

my hat is off to you for initiating some action, but until a government with different sympathys is in power and the majority of the thai population think differently...i feel that you are pissing into the wind on the matter (if you want concrete results vs another discussion forum).

[mouse]

[/right]

Exactly for as long as we talk here nothing will get done. We should find a method of being represented. It is not an unreasonable request to make. I figure that the farang living in Thailand number around 50,000 and when their entire income were combined we would the equivalent economic power of 500,000 Thais. Not a demographic to be ignored.

[penelope]

Exactly for as long as we talk here nothing will get done.  We should find a method of being represented.  It is not an unreasonable request to make. I figure that the farang living in Thailand number around 50,000 and when their entire income were combined we would the equivalent economic power of 500,000 Thais.  Not a demographic to be ignored.

you'll be fighting one of the greatest roots of thai pride..their sovereignty..and allowing non-thais to own land would be a direct challenge to that ideal. good luck.

Edited May 16, 2005 by penelope

[chownah]

What planet are you living on? Locals are finding difficulties in Samui and Phuket because of the activities of Sino-Thai corporate muscle, not foreign capital.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is this "muscle" that controls the Thai gov't (heck they ARE the gov't). Do you think that they are going to liberalize ownership laws to give westerners a piece of the action? Whatever action you guys decide to take it must not be perceived as a threat by this "muscle" or you will not succeed.

Also, it is my opinion that the vast majority of Thais will not think that your actions will benefit them.

Edited May 16, 2005 by chownah

[mouse]

What planet are you living on? Locals are finding difficulties in Samui and Phuket because of the activities of Sino-Thai corporate muscle, not foreign capital.

It is this "muscle" that controls the Thai gov't (heck they ARE the gov't). Do you think that they are going to liberalize ownership laws to give westerners a piece of the action? Whatever action you guys decide to take it must not be perceived as a threat by this "muscle" or you will not succeed.

Absolutely correct - no threat, no muscle just respectful requests of what can be considered reasonable and only through a professional lobbyist, trained in such diplomatic matters.

Edited May 16, 2005 by mouse

[boris]

Exactly for as long as we talk here nothing will get done.  We should find a method of being represented.  It is not an unreasonable request to make. I figure that the farang living in Thailand number around 50,000 and when their entire income were combined we would the equivalent economic power of 500,000 Thais.  Not a demographic to be ignored.

you'll be fighting one of the greatest roots of thai pride..their sovereignty..and allowing non-thais to own land would be a direct challenge to that ideal. good luck.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh for heavens sake don't talk such nonsense.Yes Thais are right to be proud of their history and independence.This is nothing to do with the system being slanted against foreigners whether it is land, property,share ownership, judicial system etc.What is driving this discrimination are the vested interests who dread having to compete with efficient international management and capital.They saw how the retail business was taken over by foreign corporations after the 1997 economic crisis and are determined nothing like this will happen again.Its the ordinary Thai people who suffer.

[taxexile]

What planet are you living on? Locals are finding difficulties in Samui and Phuket because of the activities of Sino-Thai corporate muscle, not foreign capital.

local landowners are selling land or going into partnership with foriegners who buy large tracts of land with foriegn capital and then sell it on other foriegners at prices that are not too unreasonable for falangs but quite ridiculous for ordinary thais.

this isnt sino thai corporate muscle , its just locals and profit and greed.

[Jai Dee]

I voted yes... but with limitations.

I am against foreign ownership of large parcels of land for development and profit, but I feel that as a contributor to Thai taxation and social security, I should be entitled to buy a plot of land for my family home.

Perhaps the qualifier should be for home owners/place of residence...?

[Erwin1011]

Let's not get into controversial discussions.

I appreciate the nay's as much as the aye's. Both have contributed in aspects that were overlooked or should have been taken in account.

My initial idea was to let this run for about a month, to allow not so active members to contribute, but I now think indeed that we need to go up to the next level. We can still let the poll run while we're doing that, but make also sure we keep it living.

1. we need to find a name

2. we need to nail down the goals specifically, taking in account all the contributions (pro and con) brought forward.

3. the formulation of the goals need to be reviewed by somebody who has more in depth knowledge of the law(s) (Thai and English) relevant to what we want to achieve.

Mouse, offer is highly appreciated together with Peder's offer to spent some time in developing it. Others please don't feel shy. If we want to get this on rails we will need every resource we can get, every contribution we can get in whatever shape and format. i.e demographic info, how many Foreigners live here, under what visa system, number of mixed marriages (Thai-Foreign), registered, geographic spread in the country, outside the country etc..etc... there is a massive amount of background info necessary. Get the facts straight to build the argument.

I also feel that it might be helpfull if we somehow could organize an Eyeball to Eyeball to trash out ideas.

Personally, I'll be up the proverbial creek without a paddle in China for the next to weeks. Hopefully after that things will go back to normal.

[mouse]

Let's not get into controversial discussions.

I appreciate the nay's as much as the aye's. Both have contributed in aspects that were overlooked or should have been taken in account.

My initial idea was to let this run for about a month, to allow not so active members to contribute, but I now think indeed that we need to go up to the next level. We can still let the poll run while we're doing that, but make also sure we keep it living.

1. we need to find a name

2. we need to nail down the goals specifically, taking in account all the contributions (pro and con) brought forward.

3. the formulation of the goals need to be reviewed by somebody who has more in depth knowledge of the law(s) (Thai and English) relevant to what we want to achieve.

Mouse, offer is highly appreciated together with Peder's offer to spent some time in developing it. Others please don't feel shy. If we want to get this on rails we will need every resource we can get, every contribution we can get in whatever shape and format. i.e demographic info, how many Foreigners live here, under what visa system, number of mixed marriages (Thai-Foreign), registered, geographic spread in the country, outside the country etc..etc... there is a massive amount of background info necessary. Get the facts straight to build the argument.

I also feel that it might be helpfull if we somehow could organize an Eyeball to Eyeball to trash out ideas.

Personally, I'll be up the proverbial creek without a paddle in China for the next to weeks. Hopefully after that things will go back to normal.

This has to be about more than just farang and their need to own land, this also has to be about we can help Thailand benefit from our presence here and how we can teach the Thai people to improve their enviroment wether it is the financial situation and other points without us profiting from doing so in any way. In other words, without being a citizen we would earn some of the rights that we desire by helping out without direct financial benefit to us. It can certainly be explored.

[daveb1]

I think we would have more luck if we formed a lobby group to lobby the UK goverment on this to get the same sort of deals as U.S. nationals get on owning land.

Its got to come from the goverment i think you are wasting your time trying to lobby the Thai goverment sorry.

Edited May 16, 2005 by daveb1

[mouse]

1841 looks at the topic and only 61 votes. Come on guys and gals, take part, say a word, be it positive or not.

[Darknight]

1841 looks at the topic and only 61 votes.  Come on guys and gals, take part, say a word, be it positive or not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

maybe the 61 people all looked 30 times ??

[Jai Dee]

1841 looks at the topic and only 61 votes.  Come on guys and gals, take part, say a word, be it positive or not.

Maybe a lot of guests having a look too...

It is popping up on the Forum Portal latest topic replies...

[Thomas_Merton]

1841 looks at the topic and only 61 votes.  Come on guys and gals, take part, say a word, be it positive or not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think the reason there are so few participants in the poll, is the poll's nature.

It is demanding a yes/no answer to something that is very complex and requires many more nuances than available either in the poll or in the original posting.

Farangs in Thailand are a diverse group of often quite individualistic individuals whose reasons for being and staying in Thailand are as equally various.

What the OP appears to be enquiring about, is tantamount to starting a political party – at the least an organised pressure group.

An interest in being a member of such a group demands a far greater definition of the motives and organisation of such a group than has been presented here.

Besides, I am also sure there are many members who share the views of the great Groucho when he said; he did not wish to be a member of any group or organisation that would have him as a member.

Edited May 16, 2005 by Thomas_Merton

[taxexile]

I think we would have more luck if we formed a lobby group to lobby the UK goverment on this to get the same sort of deals as U.S. nationals get on owning land.

Its got to come from the goverment i think you are wasting your time trying to lobby the Thai goverment sorry.

i'm inclined to agree with that.

a falang group here trying to change things here by lobbying the gov. stands as much chance as a snowball in h3ll , with backing from a eu or uk representative the chances of at least getting to a discussion stage with the thais would be increased.

but the uk gov. and the eu gov. have other things on their plates and their picture of the typical expat and his lifestyle in thailand doesn't need elaborating here , so why would they even be bothered to get involved.

[mouse]

I think we would have more luck if we formed a lobby group to lobby the UK goverment on this to get the same sort of deals as U.S. nationals get on owning land.

Its got to come from the goverment i think you are wasting your time trying to lobby the Thai goverment sorry.

i'm inclined to agree with that.

a falang group here trying to change things here by lobbying the gov. stands as much chance as a snowball in h3ll , with backing from a eu or uk representative the chances of at least getting to a discussion stage with the thais would be increased.

but the uk gov. and the eu gov. have other things on their plates and their picture of the typical expat and his lifestyle in thailand doesn't need elaborating here , so why would they even be bothered to get involved.

Naturally you get a Thai person to represent the group and sell the idea that Thailand has to gain rather than loose anything.

[Pink Mist]

Pretty much sums it up taxexile

[mouse]

with backing from a eu or uk representative the chances of at least getting to a discussion stage with the thais would be increased.

Sorry did not read it correctly. Yes! I agree! that would also have to be done. Approach the problem from two directions.

[taxexile]

sell the idea that Thailand has to gain rather than loose anything

but what exactly DOES thailand have to gain from this ?

[The_Eye_Of_Sauron]

On one of the 'sex tourist' boards there's a guy - who is one of the biggest pervs in town, trying to get farangs together for a united action front in Thailand - feeling that his tax baht doesn't get him any say in how Thailand treats him..

His remit is broader than just land ownership. Yet he expects his cabal to be taken seriously and get funding (he's also going for $50 per member).