Thaksin, Supporters Vow To Fight Thai Verdict

[rixalex]

Why don't all of you Thaksin bashers educate yourself before you post here - it is really getting boring reading all those replies without the posters even bothering to find out what really happened.

Thaksins entire defense is publicly posted for evereyone to read on his website www.thaksinlive.com - if you read it you can then discuss the FACTS - and not rumors and the propaganda of his enemies.

You can also read his life story there and then you will understand why the poor Thais love him - because he and his family had to struggle to survive as millions of Thais do today.

Read the story of a little boy who got up every morning at 5 to help his parents sell coffee and clothes before going to school - and compare him to his enemies who have mostly been born stinking rich by stealing from the Thai people for hundreds of years.

If you read his story you will understand why he was making money available through village funds and you will understand his other populist policies - because he knows first hand that if you are poor in Thailand you get nothing!

Read it and then you can make up your mind and comment here. Read a certain Duncan McCargo document on the Thai elite on google and then comment here if you like.

Read and if you agree with me please pass on the information to others so we can all make an open minded informed decission.

This is the age of the internet you can get real infomation out there not the news the anti democratic propaganda machine has churned out for the last 50 years in this country!

Thanks for the chuckle mate.

[rixalex]

his beginnings were far from humble.

Indeed. As is he.

[Publicus]

Why don't all of you Thaksin bashers educate yourself before you post here - it is really getting boring reading all those replies without the posters even bothering to find out what really happened.

Thaksins entire defense is publicly posted for evereyone to read on his website www.thaksinlive.com - if you read it you can then discuss the FACTS - and not rumors and the propaganda of his enemies.

You can also read his life story there and then you will understand why the poor Thais love him - because he and his family had to struggle to survive as millions of Thais do today.

Read the story of a little boy who got up every morning at 5 to help his parents sell coffee and clothes before going to school - and compare him to his enemies who have mostly been born stinking rich by stealing from the Thai people for hundreds of years.

If you read his story you will understand why he was making money available through village funds and you will understand his other populist policies - because he knows first hand that if you are poor in Thailand you get nothing!

Read it and then you can make up your mind and comment here. Read a certain Duncan McCargo document on the Thai elite on google and then comment here if you like.

Read and if you agree with me please pass on the information to others so we can all make an open minded informed decission.

This is the age of the internet you can get real infomation out there not the news the anti democratic propaganda machine has churned out for the last 50 years in this country!

Thanks for the chuckle mate.

True, but more than a chuckle to me.

[BSJ]

I have a funny feeling Thaksin will return to LOS later in the year and he will be a free man. Why? Because the PM wants to move forward and he can, if he wants, petition the courts for clemency. When you think about it it's not so outlandish. It takes the initiative away from the Red camp and the masses will see PM Vejjajiva as a fair man who shows mercy. Besides, to continue on the current path will see no end to the unrest.

[rixalex]

I have a funny feeling Thaksin will return to LOS later in the year and he will be a free man. Why? Because the PM wants to move forward and he can, if he wants, petition the courts for clemency. When you think about it it's not so outlandish. It takes the initiative away from the Red camp and the masses will see PM Vejjajiva as a fair man who shows mercy. Besides, to continue on the current path will see no end to the unrest.

Politically he's too much of a threat to do that i think.

[scorecard]

What possible significant new evidence could they have that they did not have before ? Maybe they will go for the evil twin brother defense;

"Your honour, we the defense would like to submit new evidence to the court, we have reason to believe that it was not our client who committed these act but it was his evil twin brother spongebob squarehead"

The new evidence; "But it was just an honest mistake".

[frodo]

Scary to read the thinking of these red shirts. Their words echo a book I read long ago. That book was George Orwell's "Animal Farm". Wanna make a guess who is Napoleon?

Nice reference to Orwell.

No need for guessing on this one, one fits the character perfectly.

[Bagwan]

I have a funny feeling Thaksin will return to LOS later in the year and he will be a free man. Why? Because the PM wants to move forward and he can, if he wants, petition the courts for clemency. When you think about it it's not so outlandish. It takes the initiative away from the Red camp and the masses will see PM Vejjajiva as a fair man who shows mercy. Besides, to continue on the current path will see no end to the unrest.

In a democratic monarchy the courts administer the King's Justice not the Prime Ministers. I would hope that if such a scenario presented itself the Supreme Court would tell Mark to go forth and multiply as they are fully entitled so to do. Justice has nothing to do with political expediency.

I do not believe Mark would be so stupid as to afford the tyrannical fraudster even a smidgen of a chance to foment more problems than he already has.

[scorecard]

I have a funny feeling Thaksin will return to LOS later in the year and he will be a free man. Why? Because the PM wants to move forward and he can, if he wants, petition the courts for clemency. When you think about it it's not so outlandish. It takes the initiative away from the Red camp and the masses will see PM Vejjajiva as a fair man who shows mercy. Besides, to continue on the current path will see no end to the unrest.

In a democratic monarchy the courts administer the King's Justice not the Prime Ministers. I would hope that if such a scenario presented itself the Supreme Court would tell Mark to go forth and multiply as they are fully entitled so to do. Justice has nothing to do with political expediency.

I do not believe Mark would be so stupid as to afford the tyrannical fraudster even a smidgen of a chance to foment more problems than he already has.

Agreed, plus I think PM Abhisit is a lot more wise than to set up what would be a very unwise precedent which would start up hundreds of thousand of requests from every person in a jail for clemency.

And in any event can the PM alone simply order an amnesty? NO!

QUOTES FROM ABOVE:

1. "I have a funny feeling Thaksin will return to LOS later in the year and he will be a free man. Why? Because the PM wants to move forward and he can, if he wants, petition the courts for clemency. When you think about it it's not so outlandish. It takes the initiative away from the Red camp and the masses will see PM Vejjajiva as a fair man who shows mercy."

You say "it takes the initiative away from the red shirts" Can't agree at all with that notion, in fact I suggest that it would probably give them renewed thrust.

2. "Besides, to continue on the current path will see no end to the unrest." Again I don't agree, the truth is that PM Abhisit is doing quite well and is gaining more and more, plus:

- The economy is doing quite nicely.

- Taxation receipts are way way above forecast (a very good indicator that the economy is alive and well and growing)

- Khun Korn recently won 2 highly credible awards for his policies to protect Thailand quite well from the fallout of the recent global finincial crisis.

- K. Abhisit and K. Korn have recently laid out a long term macro policy which will help to gain a better spread of wealth for all Thais.

- K. Abhisit and K. Korn have recently announced more education reform, to be formulated by a committe outside of the education ministry beaurocracy.

Eventually the red shirts will just fade away, promise you.

Edited February 28, 2010 by scorecard

[healthcaretaker]

In short, Thaksin is nothing but a habitual liar. His statements yesterday, totally contradict what he says today. Pathological and selfish liar.

His words, "I will not chicken out." His words are 100% meaningless. A chicken runs and hides, and the shoe fits perfectly. A coward and a liar. Pathetic.

He should be jailed !!

Wonder why are these Red Shirts people so stupid ? Don't they accept the fact that he was a criminal ? This is where I don't understand. What are these red shirts fighting for ? Arn't they happy that this culprit is gone and some money has been returned to the country ? Unless they think those money should go to their own pockets ?

[healthcaretaker]

What possible significant new evidence could they have that they did not have before ? Maybe they will go for the evil twin brother defense;

"Your honour, we the defense would like to submit new evidence to the court, we have reason to believe that it was not our client who committed these act but it was his evil twin brother spongebob squarehead"

Why don't all of you Thaksin bashers educate yourself before you post here - it is really getting boring reading all those replies without the posters even bothering to find out what really happened.

Thaksins entire defense is publicly posted for evereyone to read on his website www.thaksinlive.com - if you read it you can then discuss the FACTS - and not rumors and the propaganda of his enemies.

You can also read his life story there and then you will understand why the poor Thais love him - because he and his family had to struggle to survive as millions of Thais do today.

Read the story of a little boy who got up every morning at 5 to help his parents sell coffee and clothes before going to school - and compare him to his enemies who have mostly been born stinking rich by stealing from the Thai people for hundreds of years.

If you read his story you will understand why he was making money available through village funds and you will understand his other populist policies - because he knows first hand that if you are poor in Thailand you get nothing!

Read it and then you can make up your mind and comment here. Read a certain Duncan McCargo document on the Thai elite on google and then comment here if you like.

Read and if you agree with me please pass on the information to others so we can all make an open minded informed decission.

This is the age of the internet you can get real infomation out there not the news the anti democratic propaganda machine has churned out for the last 50 years in this country!

You mean that his crime and how he made those money are all rumours ?

I read his story. So what if he is from a poor background or worked hard ? That don't give him any rights to do what he did.

So what if many Thais loved him ? That is politics. I admire his ability in winning the hearts of the poor Thais but that don't change his level of guilt.

These poor Thais who loved him are very simple-minded but I am sure time will improve everyone's mentality. Thanks to the internet that I know all these.

It includes you, of course

Now cheer up !!

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Good on the Reds, if they disagree with the verdict they should by all means fight for what they believe.

Yes, it's called freedom of expression and freedom of assembly. Remarkable how many educated foreigners find fault with basic freedoms.

[rixalex]

Good on the Reds, if they disagree with the verdict they should by all means fight for what they believe.

Yes, it's called freedom of expression and freedom of assembly.

You mean like people assembling at an airport?

[gemini81]

Good on the Reds, if they disagree with the verdict they should by all means fight for what they believe.

Yes, it's called freedom of expression and freedom of assembly. Remarkable how many educated foreigners find fault with basic freedoms.

I don't think anyone on here is objecting to protests, only when there is unnecessary violence. Thats the problem. Most of us were just pointing out how ludicrous it is to support an individual like this. He is skilled at winning their hearts....but I also recall a man with a funny little moustache convicing a nation of what could be regarded as proposterous..

[WinnieTheKhwai]

He should be jailed !!

Wonder why are these Red Shirts people so stupid ? Don't they accept the fact that he was a criminal ? This is where I don't understand.

Ah, I can answer that for you. (Because I have some red-leaning friends, and I read some of the websites, Facebook groups, as well as unbiased international news sources.)

Right, they don't accept that he was a criminal. Shrewd businessman: absolutely, that was the reason they voted for him in the first place, the widely touted CEO style leadership. They basically like what he did for the Thai economy, they liked that he was tough on drugs/vice, and most of all they like that he was the first politician to help the rural poor. That never happened before; if you were poor and got sick, you better be lucky. Thaksin made the first moves towards universal affordable healthcare. (Flawed as it was IMHO, but your question was why the Reds like him, so that's the question I'm answering).

What are these red shirts fighting for ? Arn't they happy that this culprit is gone and some money has been returned to the country ? Unless they think those money should go to their own pockets ?

There's a wide variety of goals; it's not a very homogeneous movement to be honest. Many just want Thaksin back as PM. Others have bigger goals that relate to constitutional issues and introducing democracy to Thailand. Others are socialists. Others are idiot loud-mouths.

Edited February 28, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[gemini81]

What possible significant new evidence could they have that they did not have before ? Maybe they will go for the evil twin brother defense;

"Your honour, we the defense would like to submit new evidence to the court, we have reason to believe that it was not our client who committed these act but it was his evil twin brother spongebob squarehead"

Why don't all of you Thaksin bashers educate yourself before you post here - it is really getting boring reading all those replies without the posters even bothering to find out what really happened.

Thaksins entire defense is publicly posted for evereyone to read on his website www.thaksinlive.com - if you read it you can then discuss the FACTS - and not rumors and the propaganda of his enemies.

You can also read his life story there and then you will understand why the poor Thais love him - because he and his family had to struggle to survive as millions of Thais do today.

Read the story of a little boy who got up every morning at 5 to help his parents sell coffee and clothes before going to school - and compare him to his enemies who have mostly been born stinking rich by stealing from the Thai people for hundreds of years.

If you read his story you will understand why he was making money available through village funds and you will understand his other populist policies - because he knows first hand that if you are poor in Thailand you get nothing!

Read it and then you can make up your mind and comment here. Read a certain Duncan McCargo document on the Thai elite on google and then comment here if you like.

Read and if you agree with me please pass on the information to others so we can all make an open minded informed decission.

This is the age of the internet you can get real infomation out there not the news the anti democratic propaganda machine has churned out for the last 50 years in this country!

Dude, I was silly enough to look at the site you're referring too. They just dress him up as some kind of God. Counterproductive to your claim that FACTS are available online, there is also false rubbish online-just 'cause its online doesn't make it facts. If you have your own website are you gonna bash yourself on it? Show us one thats neutral and based on facts. Your link is just another one of his little propaganda tools and a sob site.

The other guy was correct, by the time Thaksin came into the family, they already boasted great wealth. (well known to any inhabitant around Chiang Mai)

Anyway, his family was by no means "struggling to survive" as you put it.

[ronz28]

Bloomberg reports that ...When appointed foreign minister in 1994, Thaksin disclosed that he and his wife were worth 60 billion baht -- $2.4 billion at the time. The couple transferred their Shin Corp. stake to their children and relatives before he became prime minister.

Shin shares gained 168 percent from when Thaksin was elected in January 2001 to when his family sold the company in January 2006, compared with a 161 percent gain in the benchmark SET index, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Siam Cement Pcl, Thailand’s fourth-biggest company gained 733 percent in that time. It just doesn't appear that the Shin Corp. investment during that time generated an unreasonable return, to me. The whole market went up including cell phone companies.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Bloomberg reports that ...When appointed foreign minister in 1994, Thaksin disclosed that he and his wife were worth 60 billion baht -- $2.4 billion at the time. The couple transferred their Shin Corp. stake to their children and relatives before he became prime minister.

Shin shares gained 168 percent from when Thaksin was elected in January 2001 to when his family sold the company in January 2006, compared with a 161 percent gain in the benchmark SET index, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Siam Cement Pcl, Thailand's fourth-biggest company gained 733 percent in that time. It just doesn't appear that the Shin Corp. investment during that time generated an unreasonable return, to me. The whole market went up including cell phone companies.

Indeed. And besides, he had to transfer ownership because Thai law stipulates this for a prime minister. Some people make it sound like it's some kind of evil scheme.

Edited February 28, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[BangkokHank]

Bloomberg reports that ...When appointed foreign minister in 1994, Thaksin disclosed that he and his wife were worth 60 billion baht -- $2.4 billion at the time. The couple transferred their Shin Corp. stake to their children and relatives before he became prime minister.

Shin shares gained 168 percent from when Thaksin was elected in January 2001 to when his family sold the company in January 2006, compared with a 161 percent gain in the benchmark SET index, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Siam Cement Pcl, Thailand's fourth-biggest company gained 733 percent in that time. It just doesn't appear that the Shin Corp. investment during that time generated an unreasonable return, to me. The whole market went up including cell phone companies.

Just because the shares of other companies appreciated by a similar amount during the period in question does not mean that Thaksin didn't do things while he was in office that benefited Shin Corporation. For example, I understand that Thaksin caused the Thai government to make or guarantee a loan to Burma for the purpose of buying a satellite from Shin, among other things. If that's not a conflict of interest, I don't know what is.

[ronz28]

Bloomberg reports that ...When appointed foreign minister in 1994, Thaksin disclosed that he and his wife were worth 60 billion baht -- $2.4 billion at the time. The couple transferred their Shin Corp. stake to their children and relatives before he became prime minister.

Shin shares gained 168 percent from when Thaksin was elected in January 2001 to when his family sold the company in January 2006, compared with a 161 percent gain in the benchmark SET index, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Siam Cement Pcl, Thailand's fourth-biggest company gained 733 percent in that time. It just doesn't appear that the Shin Corp. investment during that time generated an unreasonable return, to me. The whole market went up including cell phone companies.

Just because the shares of other companies appreciated by a similar amount during the period in question does not mean that Thaksin didn't do things while he was in office that benefited Shin Corporation. For example, I understand that Thaksin caused the Thai government to make or guarantee a loan to Burma for the purpose of buying a satellite from Shin, among other things. If that's not a conflict of interest, I don't know what is.

That's picking the fly poo out of the pepper. Peanuts in the scheme of things. Did Thai Bank earn interest rate on the loan or did Burma default? Did it help communications in the Region? I don't know enough about Thaksin to like or dislike him politically but from a business viewpoint the government facilitating a loan is hardly a reason to confiscate half of a family's wealth. This appears to be a family who got richer with the market because they were already rich and risked their money in a business to earn a reasonable return on their investment which they did but at no more than most of the rest of the market at the time.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

That's exactly right.. None of this, at the core, is about wrongdoing. It's about consolidating a power-grab.

[eldar1]

That's picking the fly poo out of the pepper. Peanuts in the scheme of things. Did Thai Bank earn interest rate on the loan or did Burma default? Did it help communications in the Region? I don't know enough about Thaksin to like or dislike him politically but from a business viewpoint the government facilitating a loan is hardly a reason to confiscate half of a family's wealth. This appears to be a family who got richer with the market because they were already rich and risked their money in a business to earn a reasonable return on their investment which they did but at no more than most of the rest of the market at the time.

So all the points outlined in the recently ended court case which clearly outline abuse of power concerning shin corp is null and valid because other companies did just as well or better in the stock market ?

Shin corps share performance is based on it's financial performance as measured in it's yearly and quarterly financial reports (plus some other factors of course but for the most part it is) in these reports the cash flow and profit enhancements created by the corruption of thaksin is already stated. Without these enhancement the stock performance of shin corp would have been much worse. The only only thing we can conclude is that shin corp was badly run compared to it's rivals and the only reason it share price did not suffer is because of the couple of billion dollars added to the balance sheet by the actions of Thaksin.

As for the argument that his family owned the shares but not him; one can be under no illusion that while technically he did not own the shares, he still retained control over them through his children which in and by it's self creates a conflict of interest. If he would have sold his shares for fair market price to his children the story might have been different but that is not the case also selling to a third party would have done the job too.

so he had a controlling interest in Shin corp. through is wife and children (who paid no money for the shares that they controlled) and he added billions of dollars to the balance sheet of Shin corp in the 5 years in power. If this is not conflict or interest and corruption then i don't know what is.

His fatal mistake is that he got too greedy and tried to cash out while he was still PM, he should have waited a few more years till the end of his second term and done it then. Of course one could argue that he knew shin corp was being badly run and that share price would collapse (as it has, mostly due to vastly overpaying for it's 3g license) and therefore was very happy temasek came alone to buy him out at the top.

Edit: spelling mistakes

Edited February 28, 2010 by eldar1

[moetownblues]

Why is it that the Farangs dislike thaksin so much but the thais love him?

[Jingthing]

Why is it that the Farangs dislike thaksin so much but the thais love him?

That's a false question. Many foreigners love Thaksin. Many Thais hate him. In my case as an educated foreigner, I feel Thaksin reminds me of other dangerous totalitarian zealots in world history that have caused great pain, death, and destruction. For example Marcos and Peron. However, you will find many foreigners who admire Mr. Thaksin. Why? You'll have to ask them.

Edited February 28, 2010 by Jingthing

[cdnvic]

Why is it that the Farangs dislike thaksin so much but the thais love him?

If the Thais so universally love him, why are they split over this? It isn't the farangs dressed in yellow.

[CLOD]

"Court says coup order to appoint AEC legally sanctioned"

"Third legal issue is whether the coup announcement to form the AEC was legally sanctioned.

The high court ruled that the coup-issued law is classified as an equivalent to an act of Parliament, hence it is legally binding."

Further to the 2006 coup, the PAD and yellowshirt elites and supporters have been saying that thailand is a democracy...., but sure looks like the supreme court arn't having any of it.

[andyww]

I am not a fan of Thaksin but it is not his actions which I find the most unpleasant aspect of this whole issue.

What stinks is the reason why Thaksin was removed in the first place. It was purely because the ruling elite found the trough all their snouts were in was getting emptier. Bringing the charges against him was just a means to an end. Many Thai politicians have got away with far more blatant corruption than the "conflict of interest" charges against Thaksin.

Thaksin was one of the few Thai politicians ever to publicly state that Thailand is an inherently corrupt country and that something needed to be done about it. The elite were horrified that Thaksin was giving a political voice to the poor, as they believe they are "too stupid" to have a vote.

No politician will ever again try what Thaksin started to do, to attempt to shift the power away from the dominant Bangkok elite with their inherited wealth, as they now know what will happen, even if they are squeaky clean. So Thailand will forever remain a corrupt country and the criminals and drugs barons will continue to get off scot-free.

Its interesting to surmise what would have happened to Thaksin if he had not made the fatal mistakes he made and left himself open to these charges. People say that Thaksin was dictatorial and ruthless. Probably correct, but he was elected and therefore could have been removed by not being re-elected. I doubt that he would have reached that stage though and would have been removed before any election. Its highly likely that if no recourse to the courts were available he would have been removed from power by military force eventually and had to flee for his life.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Why is it that the Farangs dislike thaksin so much but the thais love him?

That's a false question. Many foreigners love Thaksin. Many Thais hate him. In my case as an educated foreigner, I feel Thaksin reminds me of other dangerous totalitarian zealots in world history that have caused great pain, death, and destruction. For example Marcos and Peron. However, you will find many foreigners who admire Mr. Thaksin. Why? You'll have to ask them.

And in my case as an educated foreigner, I feel the main forces opposing Thaksin reminds (sic) me of other dangerous totalitarian systems in the world that have caused great pain, death and destruction. Thaksin actually got pretty close to breaking that stranglehold. He became such a threat that a coup was organized to throw out his party, and the first constitution in Thai history to come about through democratic process. The facsimile that Thailand ended up with is a recipe for continued disenfranchisement and strife. Ultimately it's unfair, and ultimately this will get addressed. History has shown this time and again.

Edited March 1, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[ThaksinKharma]

Its interesting to surmise what would have happened to Thaksin if he had not made the fatal mistakes he made and left himself open to these charges. People say that Thaksin was dictatorial and ruthless. Probably correct, but he was elected and therefore could have been removed by not being re-elected.

History can reveal for us what would have happened if Thaksin had remained. His earlier statement about Thai Rak Thai Party ruling for 20 years mirrors that of Marcos of the Philippines who was initially elected into office as a very popular person, but who later refused to budge after his last allowed-by-law election victory expired and instead he stayed on and ruled ruthlessly for 22 years.

It's encouraging that you recognize Thaksin for the dictator that he was quickly becoming, but you should realize that like other dictators such as Marcos, voting them out is often not an option once they become firmly entrenched.

Marcos continued to have elections due mainly to international condemnation without them. Unfortunately for Filipinos, these elections consisted of only his party on the ballot. When even that failed him (because of purposely invalidated ballot marks and unmarked ballots resulted in his one party not receiving a 100% vote), for the next election, he put gun-toting soldiers at the ballot box and they peered over the voter's shoulder to ensure that ballot was marked and marked properly.

Thaksin was hel_l-bent on staying in power same as Marcos was. So many of his actions prior to the coup revealed that they mirrored Marcos' actions during the same time frame during those years of his regime. Their tactics and styles were extremely similar.

It was easy to envision seeing Thaksin's cousin, General Chaisit Shinawatra who he placed as head of the Army, having his troops be the same gun-toting soldiers watching over to make certain that voters made proper tick marks for Thai Rak Thai Party on the ballot as Thaksin rolled into the second decade of his regime.

[basinboy]

I saw a article from BBC online about a leader of the red shirts who was not interested in Thaksins fate, an extract:

Back in 1976, Dr Weng Tojirakarn was a young student leader in protests that ended with the military opening fire and killing many of his fellow demonstrators.

He fled to the hills, where Thailand's Communist Party offered a haven for many in the radical intelligentsia of the time.

Not necessarily communist, several of those activists have since become leaders of the red shirts, like Dr Weng. Some, such as Chaturon Chaisang, were even members of former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra's cabinets.

Equal rights

For men such as these, the Supreme Court verdict against Mr Thaksin's private wealth is of no importance whatsoever to the struggle.

I'm not fighting for Mr Thaksin. I'm fighting for my country to be a genuine democratic system

Dr Weng

"Mr Thaksin is just only one person in this country," says Dr Weng.

"He may be an ex-prime minister but he is nothing to do with what I'm fighting for, because I'm fighting for the genuine democratic system in Thailand."

I wonder how many other red shirts feel this way or may increasingly feel this way if the turn out money dries up.

I can't help feeling that they would be a very potent political force if they were to dump Thaksin and concertrate on their push for democracy and a better deal for the poor.

This seems unlikely in the short term, but who knows in the longer term.

Edited March 1, 2010 by basinboy