Height Of Water Tank

[offset]

On a single storey house what height should a water tank have to be to get good pressure of water for a decent shower

[Curt1591]

For "decent" pressure, buy an on-demand pump.

[katabeachbum]

20 meters gives you 2,0 bar. Normal on demand pressure pump is 2,0 -2,5 bar.

[offset]

20 meters gives you 2,0 bar. Normal on demand pressure pump is 2,0 -2,5 bar.

That seems very height in the UK most tanks are in the loft of the house and I seem to remember that I got a reasonable shower with that when I was there

[offset]

For "decent" pressure, buy an on-demand pump.

What is the best pump to buy and at what cost

I must explain we have a water tank at about 5 meters height and I thought that I should get a decent shower with that but the pressure in the house seems not to be as good as in the UK where the tanks used to be in the loft less than 2 meters above the shower height it is a new house build and I am worried that there is a problem with the pipework so if I fit a pump I could make any problems worse

[katabeachbum]

For "decent" pressure, buy an on-demand pump.

What is the best pump to buy and at what cost

I must explain we have a water tank at about 5 meters height and I thought that I should get a decent shower with that but the pressure in the house seems not to be as good as in the UK where the tanks used to be in the loft less than 2 meters above the shower height it is a new house build and I am worried that there is a problem with the pipework so if I fit a pump I could make any problems worse

5 meters gives you 0,5 bar pressure. here and in the uk. toilet works and some water comes from the shower

One of my properties has a roof tank. Provides gravity pressure when there is no electric for pump. at groundfloor pressure is ok, half of electric pump pressure, 12 meters below tank.

Best pump I d say is Grundfosss, but not inexpensive at 12-17k baht.

a good choise is Mitsubishi 305Q at 6.500 baht. I have a some of them in my properties.

with a tank 5 meters over shower, I d go for the Mitsubishi due to price

[Curt1591]

Our Mitsubishi has been flawless.

[katabeachbum]

Our Mitsubishi has been flawless.

they usually are for 5-10 years

Grundfoss is much better at waterflow (capasity), and runs much more quiet.

for a house with groundfloor tank/pump and 3-10 showers I d say Grundfoss

[longball53098]

The following is taken from a tutorial about hydraulics and wells but it can be used to help here also.

Pressure Head:

Now we need to measure the amount of "pressure head". There are two methods, you can use either.

Method #1. Pressure head is based on elevation or, in this case, the height of the tank above the highest area to be irrigated. If you don't have a tank it is the height from the point where the water enters the pipe. This height is the elevation difference, not the distance away. In other words, if you imagine a level line extending from the tank over your yard, it is the height that line would be above your yard. The water pressure in PSI can be determined by multiplying 0.433 times the height (feet) of the tank above the yard. It's that simple, don't try to make it harder! It doesn't matter if the tank is on the top of a cliff adjacent to the yard, or if the tank is a mile away on a hill. As long as the elevation is the same, the pressure will be the same! It's one of those abstract hydraulic principles I told you about that are hard to understand. (O.K., no doubt some hot shot out there wants to argue with me. So here's an exception. If the tank was far enough away, much farther than would ever apply here, the pressure COULD vary due to changes in the gravitational pull of the earth and moon. Wow, isn't that "cosmic"!)

Example #1: Tank is 100' away on a hill behind the yard. Tank elevation is 70' higher than the yard.

70 * 0.433 = 30 PSI.

Example #2: Tank is 1000' away on the side of a mountain. Tank elevation is 70' higher than the yard.

70 * 0.433 = 30 PSI. Pressure is STILL 30 PSI!

Method #2. An alternate method of measuring pressure is to install a pressure gauge (you can buy them at most plumbing stores) on the water pipe at the pipe outlet or the point you plan to tap into it for the irrigation system. This is probably the easiest method for most people. The water must not be running (turn off all faucets) when you take the measurement! (That's why it's called "static" pressure.) Read the PSI from the gauge. Warning: your water system may already have a pressure gauge installed on it. Inexpensive gauges (an expensive top-quality gauge will say something similar to "liquid filled" on the dial) tend to loose their accuracy after a year or two of use, so you may not want to rely on an old gauge.

For those that use pressure in bar? 1 bar = 14.5 psi

5 meters equals 16.5 feet

0.433 times 16.5 equals 7.14 psi

7.1 psi equals 0.489 bar

Raising the tank to 20 meters?

20 meters equals 65.6 feet

0.433 times 65.6 feet equals 28.4 psi

28.4 psi equals 1.95 bar

better but still not good, normal house pressure in the US is about 50 psi or 3.5 bar

You need a pump like already mentioned.

Edited February 28, 2010 by longball53098

[offset]

Thanks for your help so far but with the tank 5 meters height surely I should still get a good flow of water in one shower I have to run around to get wet and in the kitchen it takes a long time to fill the sink if I felt sure that there was not problem with the plumbing I would buy a pump

[katabeachbum]

The following is taken from a tutorial about hydraulics and wells but it can be used to help here also.

Pressure Head:

Now we need to measure the amount of "pressure head". There are two methods, you can use either.

Method #1. Pressure head is based on elevation or, in this case, the height of the tank above the highest area to be irrigated. If you don't have a tank it is the height from the point where the water enters the pipe. This height is the elevation difference, not the distance away. In other words, if you imagine a level line extending from the tank over your yard, it is the height that line would be above your yard. The water pressure in PSI can be determined by multiplying 0.433 times the height (feet) of the tank above the yard. It's that simple, don't try to make it harder! It doesn't matter if the tank is on the top of a cliff adjacent to the yard, or if the tank is a mile away on a hill. As long as the elevation is the same, the pressure will be the same! It's one of those abstract hydraulic principles I told you about that are hard to understand. (O.K., no doubt some hot shot out there wants to argue with me. So here's an exception. If the tank was far enough away, much farther than would ever apply here, the pressure COULD vary due to changes in the gravitational pull of the earth and moon. Wow, isn't that "cosmic"!)

Example #1: Tank is 100' away on a hill behind the yard. Tank elevation is 70' higher than the yard.

70 * 0.433 = 30 PSI.

Example #2: Tank is 1000' away on the side of a mountain. Tank elevation is 70' higher than the yard.

70 * 0.433 = 30 PSI. Pressure is STILL 30 PSI!

Method #2. An alternate method of measuring pressure is to install a pressure gauge (you can buy them at most plumbing stores) on the water pipe at the pipe outlet or the point you plan to tap into it for the irrigation system. This is probably the easiest method for most people. The water must not be running (turn off all faucets) when you take the measurement! (That's why it's called "static" pressure.) Read the PSI from the gauge. Warning: your water system may already have a pressure gauge installed on it. Inexpensive gauges (an expensive top-quality gauge will say something similar to "liquid filled" on the dial) tend to loose their accuracy after a year or two of use, so you may not want to rely on an old gauge.

For those that use pressure in bar? 1 bar = 14.5 psi

5 meters equals 16.5 feet

0.433 times 16.5 equals 7.14 psi

7.1 psi equals 0.489 bar

Raising the tank to 20 meters?

20 meters equals 65.6 feet

0.433 times 65.6 feet equals 28.4 psi

28.4 psi equals 1.95 bar

better but still not good, normal house pressure in the US is about 50 psi or 3.5 bar

You need a pump like already mentioned.

Normal house pressure where I come from is 6 bar/85 psi. only copper/ppr or pe pipes can handle this pressure.

50psi/3,5 bar will most likely blow any pvc pipe, even quality 13,5. most houses in LOS have pvc pipes, and quality 8,5 is the most used.

2,0-2,5 bar is what they can take. 30-35 psi.

[katabeachbum]

Thanks for your help so far but with the tank 5 meters height surely I should still get a good flow of water in one shower I have to run around to get wet and in the kitchen it takes a long time to fill the sink if I felt sure that there was not problem with the plumbing I would buy a pump

yes, 0,5 bar you have to run around to get wet.

if showerwater goes through an instant heater, I m amazed you get wet at all with 0,5 bar gravity pressure.

you could have a problem with dirt in your valves. take the filter on each faucet and showerheads off to clean and check

raising the tank 20 meters/70 feet or installing a pressurepump will give you the same pressure, 2,5 bar/35psi, not having to run around in the shower any more

Edited February 28, 2010 by katabeachbum

[mdechgan]

The problem is the local water pressure from the MWA isn't sufficient enough to fill the tank. 2-3 meters and their isn't enough pressure to fill the tank. At 5 meters not mentioning 20 meters you will need a pump to fill the tank. Most 100 - 150 watt motors only have a head pressure of about 11 meters.

[offset]

The problem is the local water pressure from the MWA isn't sufficient enough to fill the tank. 2-3 meters and their isn't enough pressure to fill the tank. At 5 meters not mentioning 20 meters you will need a pump to fill the tank. Most 100 - 150 watt motors only have a head pressure of about 11 meters.

The water is pumped from a bore hole and the tank does fill OK What I still cannot understand is that in the UK there are not many houses with a tank 20 meters in the air and with the loft tanks you still get quite a good shower

[Crossy]

The water is pumped from a bore hole and the tank does fill OK What I still cannot understand is that in the UK there are not many houses with a tank 20 meters in the air and with the loft tanks you still get quite a good shower

UK showers are usually run straight off the rising main, if not they're pumped (Power Shower).

[offset]

The water is pumped from a bore hole and the tank does fill OK What I still cannot understand is that in the UK there are not many houses with a tank 20 meters in the air and with the loft tanks you still get quite a good shower

UK showers are usually run straight off the rising main, if not they're pumped (Power Shower).

I think that you will find that in a lot of installations only the kitchen sink outside taps and the tank are feed by the rising main the rest of house is feed from the tank

Indirect cold water system. Water comes into house via rising main, is branched off to feed at least one tap (in this case the kitchen and outside tap. It also feeds the boiler next to the sink) and then continues to a storage tank in the loft. From here it is distributed to the other taps in the house. Overflow pipes are marked O. The position of stopcocks etc is marked on the diagram below which also shows the hot water path. taken from http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects/Cold%...r%20systems.htm

Edited February 28, 2010 by offset

[Crossy]

I think that you will find that in a lot of installations only the kitchen sink outside taps and the tank are feed by the rising main the rest of house is feed from the tank

No arguments, our 1920s house was tank storage for all cold water, but we had no shower. Our 80's vintage house had all the cold off the rising main and an on-demand gas heater, only tank was the header for the central heating.

[offset]

I think that you will find that in a lot of installations only the kitchen sink outside taps and the tank are feed by the rising main the rest of house is feed from the tank

No arguments, our 1920s house was tank storage for all cold water, but we had no shower. Our 80's vintage house had all the cold off the rising main and an on-demand gas heater, only tank was the header for the central heating.

My last house that was built in 1980 had a tank and a shower although the pressure was not the best it was OK in this house if we had of had a bath installed I think that I would of had to run the water for about 2 hrs to fill a bath

[trogers]

What I still cannot understand is that in the UK there are not many houses with a tank 20 meters in the air and with the loft tanks you still get quite a good shower

Yes, you can still get a rain shower off an overhead tank as seen in video footage of field showers of Desert Storm. But those are 1-inch dia. pipe tap off from the overhead tanks.

Your shower heaters or bath mixers are tapping off at 1/2-inch dia. - a quarter of the flow volume.

[jaideeguy]

My tank is 6mtrs high as that was the full length of the 2" steel pipe used to build it......1,000lt tank is 1.5 mtrs = 7.5 mtrs and altho we don't have blasting water, it is satisfactory to run water heaters and enough pressure to water yard. I wouldn't feel safe with a 65 ft tower with the weight of the water and it would be quite unsightly as well.

Trick is to minimise water friction by using the largest diameter pipe....especially for the down run.

[offset]

What I still cannot understand is that in the UK there are not many houses with a tank 20 meters in the air and with the loft tanks you still get quite a good shower

Yes, you can still get a rain shower off an overhead tank as seen in video footage of field showers of Desert Storm. But those are 1-inch dia. pipe tap off from the overhead tanks.

Your shower heaters or bath mixers are tapping off at 1/2-inch dia. - a quarter of the flow volume.

But the pipe size in the UK 1/2 inch dia and no problem

Edited March 1, 2010 by offset

[Gary A]

The biggest problem with low water pressure is that your shower heater will not work. The heaters contain a pressure switch and it takes a certain amount of pressure to trip that switch. I do know for a fact that our 3 meter high 500 liter tank does NOT provide enough pressure. The tank is high enough for our general water supply but the Shower water heater will not work.

[Samuian]

..get a pressure Pump with a large enough pressure tank, out and over, roger!

20m. water tower?

[metisdead]

What I still cannot understand is that in the UK there are not many houses with a tank 20 meters in the air and with the loft tanks you still get quite a good shower

Yes, you can still get a rain shower off an overhead tank as seen in video footage of field showers of Desert Storm. But those are 1-inch dia. pipe tap off from the overhead tanks.

Your shower heaters or bath mixers are tapping off at 1/2-inch dia. - a quarter of the flow volume.

But the pipe size in the UK 1/2 inch dia and no problem

In post #18 you said: My last house that was built in 1980 had a tank and a shower although the pressure was not the best it was OK in this house if we had of had a bath installed I think that I would of had to run the water for about 2 hrs to fill a bath

You are contradicting yourself here.

Just go and buy and install the aforementioned Mistubishi pump or similar and you'll be much happier.

[offset]

What I still cannot understand is that in the UK there are not many houses with a tank 20 meters in the air and with the loft tanks you still get quite a good shower

Yes, you can still get a rain shower off an overhead tank as seen in video footage of field showers of Desert Storm. But those are 1-inch dia. pipe tap off from the overhead tanks.

Your shower heaters or bath mixers are tapping off at 1/2-inch dia. - a quarter of the flow volume.

But the pipe size in the UK 1/2 inch dia and no problem

In post #18 you said: My last house that was built in 1980 had a tank and a shower although the pressure was not the best it was OK in this house if we had of had a bath installed I think that I would of had to run the water for about 2 hrs to fill a bath

You are contradicting yourself here.

Just go and buy and install the aforementioned Mistubishi pump or similar and you'll be much happier.

Sorry when I said this house I meant the one in Thailand that I am having the problem within the UK I could fill a bath in about 5 mins

Edited March 1, 2010 by offset

[bkkbill]

I can stand it no longer. Everyone has given there opinion which is BUY A PUMP.

[jaideeguy]

The obvious advantage of having an elevated water tank is that you have all that water in reserve for when the power drops. I have 2 tanks @1,500 lt ea and can get me thru a couple of days or more if necessary. You still need a pump of course and if want high pressure, valve it to pump or gravity.

Gravity is the most consistant power we have.....why not use it??

[offset]

The obvious advantage of having an elevated water tank is that you have all that water in reserve for when the power drops. I have 2 tanks @1,500 lt ea and can get me thru a couple of days or more if necessary. You still need a pump of course and if want high pressure, valve it to pump or gravity.

Gravity is the most consistant power we have.....why not use it??

That was the idea of having a tank I have a 12000 ltr tank the idea was to be able to water the land incase of us having trouble with the pump it would give us time to have to old pump repaired or replaced it seems to defeat the object to have to have another pump but if I have to I will but I am trying to make sure there is no problem with the piping first there seems to be a lot of weight water to get very little pressure

[jaideeguy]

12 thousand ltrs?? That's a lot of water [and weight] to put up high. are you sure it's not 12hundred?? you would need a massive tower to carry that weight.

And you would need only ONE pump....from the well, I assume. With a simple valve directing the flow into your tank or direct to your house/garden.

been using that system for years and I laugh when the neighbors don't have water to flush and we're watering the garden.

[kamalabob2]

We have a Hitachi inverter water pump, a couple of Diamond brand 2000 liter water tanks, some Mazuma water filters and an inexpensive 500 liter PRESSURE tank to obtain good water pressure in our TWO story home with four bathrooms that have "under the counter" multi point water heaters for showers and sinks. We have the LARGER SIZE service pipe from the local municipal water district fill our water storage tanks. We do NOT use filtered water for the garden when the stored rain water runs dry.

In case you can only obtain water from a well and you build a large 3 story home in a village and you want a water tower for a large 3 story home you will need a tank such as in the photo. That is a Thai owned home under construction. I think the home and gardens will be beautiful when finished, I'm not passing judgement on the water tank. The owner of that home is a Thai building contractor who builds subdivisions near Korat so I suspect he is very familiar with the correct height to obtain water pressure in his own beautiful home.