51 Thais Detained In Largest US Visa Fraud Scheme In History

[easybullet3]

so,, the crime is that 51 students have education visas and dont turn up to all their classes?

did I miss anything?

wheres the crime??!!!!!

i dont understand how this can be the biggest visa fraud in history!!!

i was expecting to read that the visas were fake or something!.. but instead, its kids not turning up for class!!

kind of a non-headline story

[faranginexile]

It had to be a scam, why go to the USA to learn ENGLISH even the natives slaughter the language.

One would think that in a post claiming that others "slaughter the language," the poster would attempt to use correct grammar, such as periods or semi-colons where they're called for. Ever heard of a "run-on sentence," Rab?

[Jimi007]

Not really.

Take a look at the laws really carefully.

Foreigners cannot ever own land here, not even enough just to have a small house to live with their families.

Foreigners who want to own a business can only own 49%.

For non-teaching jobs, for every foreign work permit, there has to be 4 Thai staff.

If you want to start your own business, you need all that, plus 2,000,000 Baht in capital.

You don't need any of this in the UK or USA.

Many foreigners are shunted out of the country like cattle, every 90 days.

When you look at the big picture, in the West, it's harder for a Thai to get in, but easier once they're in.

In Thailand, it's easier for a foreigner to get in, but not to stay.

though he said those who did not wish to defend the charges could ask to return to Thailand voluntarily

wow, thats noble,

..wonder which penalty for the same case here in Thailand if Farangs did the same thing here

There are a lot of farang doing much the same thing here with relative impunity. Remember the hue and cry when immigration did a trial run of testing the language skills of students in the language schools here. I don't blame the language schools here, but let's face while there are a lot - I hope the majority - who really want to learn Thai there is a sizable number who do not and are doing the exact same thing these Thai students are accused of doing in America. So let's be fair here. Thailand is pretty danged lenient. A Thai student I was acquainted with in the US said it was really unfair the hurdles she had to go through to get there compared to someone getting an ED visa here, and she was right.

So let's be fair. The Thai authorities are pretty tolerant.

I see your point about not being able to own land here, and 49% of a corporation. And what's the minimum wage in Thailand vs the USA... You have to jump through the whoops to say in any country, Thailand included. And there are always loop holes in any legal system, but the USA does make it harder than most. I hear Australia is right up there with the US. Life isn't easy and not fair, but that's life!

[bf2002]

The last time I was in Miami, I didn't notice anyone speaking English there. Kansas might be a better choice.

I hope that if the Thais are innocent, the charges are dropped. It sounds like a greater burden of the problem may lie with the school itself.

What are you talking about? If the school is guilty, then so are the "students"....it takes two to tango.

[jimbo38]

The crime is that they are working. I know quite a few Thai "students" "studying" in the US. They are all working and making pretty good money. All paid under the table. Most of these jobs are with other Thai immigrants to the US. Usually a restaurant. They are all registered with language schools which they do not attend as often as they should.

If you get an Education visa then go to school.

Plus, even some of the Thais who have "green cards" have bogus cards.

If they catch me digging a hole in the backyard of the house that I'm renting here, I can have my retirement extension cancelled. I could be looking at jail time.

The people who were caught were not students, if they were they would have been studying.

I also know some Thais who went over there to get their Masters degree and they did just that. They have the diploma.

I jump through all the hoops to get my permit to stay here. If you want to go to the States then you jump through all of their hoops. And, of course, there are more hoops to get into the States. There are millions of people trying to get in every year.

[faranginexile]

The last time I was in Miami, I didn't notice anyone speaking English there. Kansas might be a better choice.

I hope that if the Thais are innocent, the charges are dropped. It sounds like a greater burden of the problem may lie with the school itself.

If u read the report again its the students who are at fault - in typical Thai sabai student fashion not attending clases as required - the US like Australia has a minimum attendance of 80% and if the students dont attend they can face deportion = yes the school was in er for this also but perhaps they were just beening kind to the students = sure that someone dobbed them in to the immmigration dept -- why raid if they were not alerted to this problem --

Through acquaintances at the local Thai temple, I've had some tangential dealings with people involved in this business. There are apparently a good number of "schools" here in the U.S. that do little more than process student visas. The schools may or may not hold actual classes, and are certainly lax when it comes to grading and attendance, but they are uniformly conscientious when it comes to enforcing tuition payments. The students, for their part, are paying for a bogus degree from abroad, extended vacation in the U.S., or both. Some will come on the I-visa (student visa), then "Robin Hood" into the workforce, usually (on the East Coast, at least) at a Thai restaurant, travel agency, or some such. If and when they have to go home to the Kingdom, they do. If they wish to return to the U.S., they obtain a passport in a different name. Lather, rinse, repeat.

[faranginexile]

so,, the crime is that 51 students have education visas and dont turn up to all their classes?

did I miss anything?

wheres the crime??!!!!!

i dont understand how this can be the biggest visa fraud in history!!!

i was expecting to read that the visas were fake or something!.. but instead, its kids not turning up for class!!

kind of a non-headline story

That headline does overstate this rather pedestrian scam. Moreover, I'm having a hard time believing it is literally true. Does that mean that between all the Russian and Chinese trafficking operations, all the farm, food processing and factory operations employing Mexican and Central Americans, and all the wholesale H1B importations of Indians for programming and data entry operations in the U.S., these 51 truant students are the "biggest visa fraud in U.S. history?

Sorry, not buying it. Either our security procedures are far more effective than I'd thought (not likely), or much, much bigger scams are escaping customs and border control scrutiny (almost certainly). Either that, or the headline is just wrong.

[rfukata]

With all the English language schools located in Thailand, why travel half way around the world to learn English? If the students are not attending class, the question of real intent is certainly there. As mentioned above the English language is probably the second or possibility third language of Miami. Education visas to study only language, anywhere, appears to be abused in several countries, which are popular tourist destinations.

very true scenario; why travel around the world to learn english? - not spanish? in it for a pleasure trip and some

'Miami-Vice' wanna be experience. Probably consist of wealthy Thai kids using this fake school as a cover to obtain

his/her F1Visa to live and party in the US.

This reminds me about 20 yrs ago, many Japanese college age students flocked to Honolulu for english lessons (ESL english as second language) only to party and surf everyday without attending classes. Eventually, those schools ended up closing down and or being

fined by the immigration authorities.

[shawndoc]

That headline does overstate this rather pedestrian scam. Moreover, I'm having a hard time believing it is literally true. Does that mean that between all the Russian and Chinese trafficking operations, all the farm, food processing and factory operations employing Mexican and Central Americans, and all the wholesale H1B importations of Indians for programming and data entry operations in the U.S., these 51 truant students are the "biggest visa fraud in U.S. history?

They made the mistake of using a scam to get a legit visa.

Most of the illegals coming from Mexico and Central America don't bother trying to get a visa. They just sneak across the boarder, purchase a bogus green card/social security card, and get their jobs. So while done in greater numbers, and often with the help of American companies, there's no "visa" fraud.

[ronz28]

Miami is full of fraudsters. Most lucrative for the crooks is clinics that file false claims for Medicare/Medicaid or sell pain relief prescription drugs to out of state drug users and pushers. By the time the Government programs figure out they have been had by the clinic the clinic renter closes down that location and opens another one elsewhere under a new name. Lots of insurance fraud in Miami too and that drives up the cost of insurance premiums there. They keep showing these frauds from Miami on national TV but it doesn't stop.

I feel sorry for those students that may have been conned by the school and are now permanently in trouble with ICE. Some were probably led to believe in something that was too good to be true just so the school could get money from the Feds and State to help pay part of the cost of student education. The school was ripping off the student, Federal Government and the State Government. I am not sure of the origin of the random fraud culture in Miami but its certainly there and the Feds may be trying to do something about it.

[KhunKenAP]

See what happens if you enter the US on a legitimate visa. Best to go to Mexico or Canada then sneak in. You would then be an illegal immigrant and have the right to free housing, food stamps, etc.

[LuckyLew]

Not really.

Take a look at the laws really carefully.

Foreigners cannot ever own land here, not even enough just to have a small house to live with their families.

Foreigners who want to own a business can only own 49%.

For non-teaching jobs, for every foreign work permit, there has to be 4 Thai staff.

If you want to start your own business, you need all that, plus 2,000,000 Baht in capital.

You don't need any of this in the UK or USA.

Many foreigners are shunted out of the country like cattle, every 90 days.

When you look at the big picture, in the West, it's harder for a Thai to get in, but easier once they're in.

In Thailand, it's easier for a foreigner to get in, but not to stay.

though he said those who did not wish to defend the charges could ask to return to Thailand voluntarily

wow, thats noble,

..wonder which penalty for the same case here in Thailand if Farangs did the same thing here

There are a lot of farang doing much the same thing here with relative impunity. Remember the hue and cry when immigration did a trial run of testing the language skills of students in the language schools here. I don't blame the language schools here, but let's face while there are a lot - I hope the majority - who really want to learn Thai there is a sizable number who do not and are doing the exact same thing these Thai students are accused of doing in America. So let's be fair here. Thailand is pretty danged lenient. A Thai student I was acquainted with in the US said it was really unfair the hurdles she had to go through to get there compared to someone getting an ED visa here, and she was right.

So let's be fair. The Thai authorities are pretty tolerant.

Oh what it is to live in the USA!!!!!

How much are you in debt?

How many wars did you start on false pretense?

Border patrol agents jailed for doing there job

How is your health care for the middle and lower classs?

You could not pay me to live in a country that would

elect GWB, then be stupid enough to do it a 2nd time

[toptuan]

Perhaps the US should treat "illegals" the way the Thai Govt does here. Jail, fine, more fine, court cases...

Or set adrift on a boat with no rations.

[granuaile]

USA welcomes geuine visa applications.

Sorry, but this is complete nonsense. Obviously, you never dealt with the run-around of getting a U.S. visa. My college friend, a Russian PhD student, missed few months off his studies (all paid for) because the idiots could not approve his visa on time. I know wives of U.S. citizens who needed on the order of 2+ years to get a visa (even if married for 10+ years). It's not pretty.

That is true. I have seen it happen. I knew someone who petitioned for his wife, and her children. He had to reapply and pay again. He had been in the navy and was friends of her family, which is how they met. Fortunately he did get her and her children to the US, and then died of cancer just two or three years later.

When my ex applied for citizenship, everything was by the book and the exam passed but the immigration offer threw a final barrier (totally spurious - I checked it).

I honestly believe in the words engraved on the Statue of Liberty. But I think America no longer does.

Here, instead of throwing barriers when I tried to change my visa they did nothing but help me every step. With a smile.

[Jimi007]

"Oh what it is to live in the USA!!!!!

How much are you in debt?

How many wars did you start on false pretense?

Border patrol agents jailed for doing there job

How is your health care for the middle and lower classs?

You could not pay me to live in a country that would

elect GWB, then be stupid enough to do it a 2nd time"

You know all about the USA! Presidents are elected by the Electoral college, not by poplular vote. George W, was appointed by then Chief Justice of the Supreme Court after irregularities in the vote count in Florida, where his brother Jeb Bush was the Governor. Bush narrowly won the November 7, 2000 election, with 271 electoral votes to Gore's 266 (with one elector abstaining in the official tally). The election was noteworthy for a controversy over the awarding of Florida's 25 electoral votes, the subsequent recount process in that state, and the unusual event of the winning candidate having received fewer popular votes than the runner-up... In 2004 he was elected by 286 electoral votes to 252, again with one state, Ohio deciding the election.

The US is not a socialist government, although Obama has some ideas that may make a bit more so. Money talks in American politics, just like it does most countries and the health insurance industry is putting up a fight to keep things their way.

But what does this have to do with a visa? The law is the law, you get caught breaking it, you deal with the consequences as in any country...

Edited March 6, 2010 by Jimi007

[kcore]

It really is just a money grab. Thai students pay 170,000 bht to agency in BKK for the chance to go to USA and study english. In reality the schools are just fronts for these agencys. No one attends. Instead (and this is all pre arrainged) the thai student go to work for the hotels cleaning rooms and making $7.00\hour and the housing consists of a 1 bedroom apartment where they try to put as many as 8-10 students at $400.00 us per mos. per student. Quite a rip - off! The students must pay for thier own air fare and for all of this expense they get the oppurtunity to make money which they all send home and experience life in USA . Win - Win situation........depends, i guess. Kcore

edit: legal- NO

Edited March 6, 2010 by kcore

[kcore]

"Oh what it is to live in the USA!!!!!

How much are you in debt?

How many wars did you start on false pretense?

Border patrol agents jailed for doing there job

How is your health care for the middle and lower classs?

You could not pay me to live in a country that would

elect GWB, then be stupid enough to do it a 2nd time"

You know all about the USA! Presidents are elected by the Electoral college, not by poplular vote. George W, was appointed by then Chief Justice of the Supreme Court after irregularities in the vote count in Florida, where his brother Jeb Bush was the Governor. Bush narrowly won the November 7, 2000 election, with 271 electoral votes to Gore's 266 (with one elector abstaining in the official tally). The election was noteworthy for a controversy over the awarding of Florida's 25 electoral votes, the subsequent recount process in that state, and the unusual event of the winning candidate having received fewer popular votes than the runner-up... In 2004 he was elected by 286 electoral votes to 252, again with one state, Ohio deciding the election.

The US is not a socialist government, although Obama has some ideas that may make a bit more so. Money talks in American politics, just like it does most countries and the health insurance industry is putting up a fight to keep things their way.

But what does this have to do with a visa? The law is the law, you get caught breaking it, you deal with the consequences as in any country...

Jimi - could not agree with more (mostly). I pulled the plug and left when they were stupid enough to elect obama.

[retarius]

Not really.

Take a look at the laws really carefully.

Foreigners cannot ever own land here, not even enough just to have a small house to live with their families.

Foreigners who want to own a business can only own 49%.

For non-teaching jobs, for every foreign work permit, there has to be 4 Thai staff.

If you want to start your own business, you need all that, plus 2,000,000 Baht in capital.

You don't need any of this in the UK or USA.

Many foreigners are shunted out of the country like cattle, every 90 days.

When you look at the big picture, in the West, it's harder for a Thai to get in, but easier once they're in.

In Thailand, it's easier for a foreigner to get in, but not to stay.

A very astute observation...but for me it's not all that tough living here is it? I have to report to immigration in Chok Chai every 90 days...I don't want to start a business...and getting a 30 year usufructary agreement for land is enough for me...hopefully I'll be dead by then....

[TAWP]

so,, the crime is that 51 students have education visas and dont turn up to all their classes?

The scam consists of individuals most likely having zero intent to go to language school but seeing it as a venue to get into the country while working illegally around the city.

[Tinkelbell]

See what happens if you enter the US on a legitimate visa. Best to go to Mexico or Canada then sneak in. You would then be an illegal immigrant and have the right to free housing, food stamps, etc.

Ha..ha..ha it's so true.

Warching from the NatGO document...showing how those Mexicans trying to cross border into the US , it happens every night. This woman had tried 26 times already, yet she said she'll try again. She was sitting along with other women in the van waiting to be deported, to drop off at the check- point in the Mexico side.

If caught, it's an easy trip back where they start, courtesy of a nice ride from the ICE. That's why they keep trying until they make it through to the heartland USA.

If luck on their side, they didn't get caught, then they know the good life is waiting for them. Most get job that paid them in cash, they would send those cash to support their families back home in Mexico. Reports over $ one billion being sent out this way annually.

I

[granuaile]

Jimi - could not agree with more (mostly). I pulled the plug and left when they were stupid enough to elect obama.

Actually that was the one thing that caused me to reconsider... But then I realize the pendulum of faux democracy would continue it's swing between the two corporatist parties that dominate American politics. If we had a congress of Dennis Kucinichs and Bernie Sanders and a Kucinich Sanders administrationI might have stayed. Obama I like, but unfortunately he has been relatively powerless in affecting real change in the US.

Granuaile

[MarkWalker]

In this case, the students are the victims. The Florida Language Institute was listed on official Immigration websites and forms as a legitimate language school. Some of the students had transferred from state colleges in Florida to the Florida Language Institute - a process which requires the first school to allow the transfer of the I-20. This means that Immigration's claim that they used this school to get into the country is not true, asn some of them were ALREADY HERE, studying at colleges. The ones who were tricked by the school SHOULD NOT be trapped in a detention center as I type this.

There are young students - all of whom had already earned a Bachelors degree in their respective countries and were here to continue education at the Masters level - are now being "detained" at the Broward Transitional Center. They are basically being imprisoned for being tricked by the operators of the fraudulent school - just as Immigration was for years. These students are not criminals. Not one of them had ANY criminal background of ANY kind. These kids lives have been turned upside-down because of the greed and lies of the schools operators, and ICE who felt it necessary to lump ALL of the schools students into the same category of "Using the school to illegally enter the country". This is NOT the case for all of them - some of them had NO IDEA it was a scam school. They simply transferred from another school and found themselves in the middle of this mess, going to the school and finding no one there, classes "canceled" or being told they had to wait 2 hrs. until the "proffessor" would arrive to teach the 2:00pm class at 4:00pm - I have witnessed this happening, and the students would be forced to either sit in the tiny hallway and wait for 2 hrs. or leave.

PS: the schools operators/owners are out on bail, meanwhile the students are being held at the Broward Transitional Center in Pompano Beach, FL.

[Spee]

FWIW ....

This thing in Florida with the Thai students seems to be part of a larger crackdown is several parts of the country. There was a big new item this evening about similar busts in California targeted at Middle Eastern students.

[Carmine6]

Here's a possible explanation for why this just happened.

There was just a tv news story about a guy in California who was arrested for taking tests (entrance exams, English proficiency exams, etc.) for Arab students so they could obtain/retain their student visas.

So very likely they're looking for terrorists and those who are assisting them in staying. But the scrutiny obviously will turn up other education visa fraud.

[CqK]

Not really.

Take a look at the laws really carefully.

Foreigners cannot ever own land here, not even enough just to have a small house to live with their families.

Foreigners who want to own a business can only own 49%.

For non-teaching jobs, for every foreign work permit, there has to be 4 Thai staff.

If you want to start your own business, you need all that, plus 2,000,000 Baht in capital.

You don't need any of this in the UK or USA.

Many foreigners are shunted out of the country like cattle, every 90 days.

When you look at the big picture, in the West, it's harder for a Thai to get in, but easier once they're in.

In Thailand, it's easier for a foreigner to get in, but not to stay.

Very well said. Thank you.

[BkkMD]

LARGEST US Visa fraud scheme in history?

I seriously doubt that lol

The number of Indian, Thai, Chinese restaurants run by illegal immigrants is appalling.

But hey, can't put a price on good schezwan chicken!! ... (other than $5)

[JLester]

Thai Students Arrested in US Granted Bail

UPDATE : 10 June 2010

Fifty-three Thai students who were arrested by US immigration officials in Florida have been granted bail.

A hundred foreign students purportedly studying at a language institute in Florida, including 53 Thai nationals, were detained in Miami in March. They were charged with violations of immigration law.

The US Immigration Office reported to the Thai Embassy in Washington that the Thai students did not comply with student visa requirements which stipulate full-time study.

The Thai Embassy in Washington recently reported that 23 Thai students have been released on bail and are preparing to fight the case in court.

If convicted, they will be repatriated to Thailand but a US visa application is still available for them. The visa approval depends on the US Embassy in Bangkok's consideration.

Other detained Thai students have been granted bail as well and they consent to the repatriation. These students will be banned from entering the United States for five to 10 years.

Another Thai student, who is still being held, agreed to return to Thailand on June 15.

Officials have revoked the language institute's certification and have faulted it with not strictly enforcing visa rules with its students. Investigators are looking for other students who may have broken the same law.

Thai-ASEAN News Network

[souvenirdeparis]

" a little French romance"

the head of a big southern uni has just been indicted for corruption; most of the many Chinese students there didn't speak a word of French, which never prevented them to get their degrees ( and visa , since they had student visa of course)

It was big scale , to the point of ruining this uni reputation overseas.

French students were amazed to see the incredible and ever -growing numbers of mute Chinese who came from the same province . They got very angry when they were told they wouldn't get any degree last year, they had paid a large sum as usual.

The Florida story sounds totally Mickey Mouse by compare.

All Right, you may ask " what reputation overseas ??" now

[souvenirdeparis]

Obama undocumented alien of a relative (aunt?) has been granted a visa for unsatisfactory reasons after many illegal though quiet years

[farangene]

Thaksin got his doctorate and masters degree from the US without speaking English.