Letter To The Nation Today About Thai Prejudice

[DJ Pat]

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2005/05/17...s_17384880.html

LETTERS TO THE EDITOR

Published on May 17, 2005

Beauty being only skin-deep, darker-coloured locals deserve their due

Re: “Western bias dreadfully unfair to local betters”, Letters, May 14.

After reading Jaroslaw Fiutowski’s letter regarding favourable treatment of lighter-skinned folks, I am equally as embarrassed to receive similar treatment in similar situations.

First, this infatuation with white skin and Western culture is quite unjustified in many ways. Take most commercials for Thai products, for example. In many cases, they feature milk-white models who look nothing like real Thai folks, or they feature young kids who clearly are luk khreung (half Thai). Or in some cases, they have farang models or actresses. As someone who worked in the industry briefly, I met and chatted with countless Thai models, both male and female, who were very, very beautiful but had absolutely no chance of getting anywhere, because they were not Western-looking or luk khreung or milky white.

Another example is the top three Thai “superstars” in the international market:

1. Tata Young.

2. Tony Ja (“Ong Bak”).

3. DJ Nakkadia, Thailand’s only travelling international DJ.

The first one you are all familiar with, due to overexposure and an often disturbing infatuation by the Thai public.

Tony Ja doesn’t seem to get the same hype but will get there slowly. His film “Ong Bak” opening at one of London’s top theatres went practically unnoticed in the press here.

DJ Nakkadia is the only touring international DJ who has graced many top clubs in Europe and the UK, and she’s always promoting Thailand when she can. But here in Thailand, she goes pretty much unnoticed (ignored?) for the obvious reason that she’s a self-confessed ex-farm girl from Isaan who made it big but has darker skin.

Now, if Nos 2 and 3 on that list were to have milky white skin or be connected with a hi-so “name”, they would, in my eyes, be enjoying a lofty status among Bangkok’s so-called “hip elite”. But no, the Western bias and old-fashioned prejudice of skin colour comes into play here. Quite sad, really.

Makes me not so proud to have Thai blood running through my veins!

Patrick

Bangkok

What are your views on this subject?

[Rags]

Nicely quoted DJ Pat - all proper references in place - should keep the TV members happy

As to this article:

* Most white Farangs want to be darker and try to get a good 'healthy' tan.

* Most dark skinned Thais want to be lighter and use dodgy whitening creams to try and achieve this.

Funny old world

Either way, judging people and treating them differently based upon the colour of their skin is just wrong - plain and simple. What more can you say?

Rags

[Thaiboxer]

Many young Thai women and teenage girls are obsessed with whitening their skin. I see ladies often holding up books or umbrellas just to walk 25 meters from their cars into Big C. When I worked at a Thai government school a couple years ago, one of my coworkers suggested putting naughty kids out in the sun since "Thai kids hate the sun." The next school I worked at had some high school kids who were disrupting my lessons (mostly girls). I took them all out on a sunny balcony and had them doing exercises....solar radiation lessons work wonders! Teachers take note!

[khunlungphudhu]

The article mentions 'western' influences, but I feel that there is more Japanese influence in this, and it is indeed sad!

When are the Thais going to wake up to the fact that Thais are a beautiful race, and start to be proud of the fact!

[penzman]

The cosmetics industry's view on this? $$$CHA CHING$$$ They sure don't help.

[Boon Mee]

Michael Jackson look-alike wannabees...ugh!

[Abandon]

Imagine if the museums in London had two gates - one for whites and one for asians, and the second had to pay while the first went free of charge.

Then go to Wat Pra Kaew.

[mnoorsapl]

LETTERS TO THE EDITOR

Published on May 17, 2005

Beauty being only skin-deep, darker-coloured locals deserve their due

Re: “Western bias dreadfully unfair to local betters”, Letters, May 14.

It is all about advertizing and making money. The advertizing world in Asia definately in favours of "Western" image.

[custard]

Its pitiful their ashamed to be what they really are.

[Zarkow]

Its pitiful their ashamed to be what they really are.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It sure is.

But on the topic of who to 'blame', my wife (who always complains "oh, I'm getting dark" after being out long in the sun), says that when she grew up and also went to university, the thai boys like 'chinese-looking-girls' (in skin-tone) i.e. whiter then normal thai.

So...who to blame?

Not sure...seems to be a national mass-hysteria. :|

[Boatabike]

Had this conversation so many times with Thais, i always tell them i dont care if they have dark skin, light skin, blue skin or polkadot skin, a good heart and no lies is far more important. This normaly gets a quick agreement then you can tell that they truely feel white skin far more important!

[Dakhar]

To me, there is beauty in all colors...

Shapes.... Eh, I aint that liberal just yet.

When my son was born my wife was so happy to see that his skin appears to be white like me....

I told her, I could care less what his color was.... he is my son, he is beautiful to me no matter what.

My wife is fairly white for a Thai, and when she hides from the son as if she shall melt.... I just tell her she is being crazy...

Oh well, it is culture, and it controls us humans.

[StateSix]

Imagine if the museums in London had two gates - one for whites and one for asians, and the second had to pay while the first went free of charge.

Then go to Wat Pra Kaew.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To be fair it is more like one gate for Thai nationals and those who pay taxes and one for non Thai nationals and those who dont pay any local direct taxes. I believe that showing your work permit will get you entry in the locals entrance, although I have never tried.

I associate pasty white skin as someone who is sick and unhealthy, whereas a tan gives the impression of being healthy (not the David Dickinson Tango man look though!!). My missus has fairly dark skin, especially if she has been out in the sun for any longer than about 10 seconds. She doesnt like it and would prefer lighter skin but I think she looks nicer when its dark.

[ProThaiExpat]

I am in my "golden years" and have stayed out of the sun for ten years. Notwithstanding that, I have a permanent bathing suit "tan line" when the skin "under the bathing suit" is clear, unblemished and almost baby like while the rest of my body, that which was exposed to the sun, is scaly, scaby, dry, bumpy, and pre-cancerous.

I sure wish I hadn't been afflicted with the western culture commands regaridng tans. Most Thais have beautiful skin, especially those who stay away from western culture, western food and the sun.

[DJ Pat]

Not sure...seems to be a national mass-hysteria. :|

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's what it seems.

[ArtfulD]

Its not just in Thailand, my friend in Malaysia made the same comments....hes pure Malay, but said how him, and all his friends view the most attractive people as half asian half caucasion.

Sorry to say, but I agree...Not saying its the lighter skin that makes them more attractive, but the whole package of asian and caucasion features mixed make them (on average) more attractive (your mileage may vary). You cant call it racist as their multi racial and as I mention its not just the skin colour but the whole package from both races mixed. And again, only saying, on average and IMHO.

[MP5]

When I worked at a Thai government school a couple years ago, one of my coworkers suggested putting naughty kids out in the sun since "Thai kids hate the sun." The next school I worked at had some high school kids who were disrupting my lessons (mostly girls). I took them all out on a sunny balcony and had them doing exercises....solar radiation lessons work wonders! Teachers take note!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Great take the kids into the sun for punishment. As the kids today are being overexposed to Fast Foods. (Obesity) Now the educators think it's OK to introduce melanoma.

Like you on my watch see you run a couple a miles in the midday sun then we'll go to the class room and you can take 5

Miles more and now that we have done the warm up.

I find out you ever did that to my children.

You and I will be having a serious parent teacher conference.

Edited May 18, 2005 by MP5

[mbkudu]

When I worked at a Thai government school a couple years ago, one of my coworkers suggested putting naughty kids out in the sun since "Thai kids hate the sun." The next school I worked at had some high school kids who were disrupting my lessons (mostly girls). I took them all out on a sunny balcony and had them doing exercises....solar radiation lessons work wonders!  Teachers take note!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Great take the kids into the sun for punishment. As the kids today are being overexposed to Fast Foods. (Obesity) Now the educators think it's OK to introduce melanoma.

Like you on my watch see you run a couple a miles in the midday sun then we'll go to the class room and you can take 5

Miles more and now that we have done the warm up.

I find out you ever did that to my children.

You and I will be having a serious parent teacher conference.

[MP5]

Sunburn in the military is a punishable offence. A self inflicted injury.

Laugh as much as you want. Heat exhaustion can kill. Hypovolemic shock (fluid loss)

Edited May 18, 2005 by MP5

[Zarkow]

Sunburn in the military is a punishable offence. A self inflicted injury.

Laugh as much as you want. Heat exhaustion can kill. Hypovolemic shock (fluid loss)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If they die from being in the sun in 10 minutes then maybe the gene-pool is better of without them.

Or Buffy has one less target to hunt.

[Johpa]

The article mentions 'western' influences, but I feel that there is more Japanese influence in this, and it is indeed sad!

Not Japanese as much as Chinese. The Chinese, as the Japanese, have a fetish for white skin (probably a reflection of Veblen's Theory of the Leisure Class). And the Chinese control the business of Thailand including the media, and have been promoting light skin for decades at the expense of the ethnic Thais who tend to have darker skin. So most ethnic Thai actors were relegated to roles as servants.

It is only over the past 15 years or so years that the fetish with white skin has elevated the luuk kreung to the top of the totem pole. Only Thai Airways seemed to have broken the mold as they discovered that the Farang passengers preferred the more exotic, at least to Farang eyes, ethnic Thai women to serve on the flight crews. And this difference in fashion between Farang men and Teo Chieu men has helped to maintain a certain level of animosity between some members of the Bangkok elite like Taksin and the Farang community because Taksin and his pals are absolutely appalled when they see Farang men flirting in public with dark skinned Isaan bar girls.

Until some of the Thai media is controlled by ethnic Thais who can then promote an option of beauty that includes an ethnic Thai component would I suspect to see any changes in attitude.

[Soksabai]

I wish everyone in Thailand would be born as Albinos in their next lives.Muahahahahahhaaaa

[Thaiboxer]

MP5...perhaps you didn't understand my post or maybe I wasn't clear enough. I would not run them in the sun or put them out there long enough to inflict any damage. Ten minutes in the sun will not cause heat exhaustion and these fat, KFC eating teenagers could use the exercise. They've got so much fluid in their bodies they couldn't possibly sweat it out in ten minutes; especially if they're only doing 20 squats then standing there for the rest of the time. Maybe if Mom and Dad did their jobs at home, then us educators wouldn't need to use this kind of punishment. If you have ever taught Thai teenagers you would resort to similar punishment tactics since you're obviously not allowed to dish out the same punishments our parents gave us when we were kids. If you have a class of typical Thai teenagers and you're easy on them, you will pay for it in the near future. Better to be a bit tough but fair at the same time.

[MP5]

MP5...perhaps you didn't understand my post or maybe I wasn't clear enough. I would not run them in the sun or put them out there long enough to inflict any damage. Ten minutes in the sun will not cause heat exhaustion and these fat, KFC eating teenagers could use the exercise. They've got so much fluid in their bodies they couldn't possibly sweat it out in ten minutes; especially if they're only doing 20 squats then standing there for the rest of the time. Maybe if Mom and Dad did their jobs at home, then us educators wouldn't need to use this kind of punishment. If you have ever taught Thai teenagers you would resort to similar punishment tactics since you're obviously not allowed to dish out the same punishments our parents gave us when we were kids. If you have a class of typical Thai teenagers and you're easy on them, you will pay for it in the near future. Better to be a bit tough but fair at the same time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fair Firm & Friendly

Yor're quite right it's just that having seen the consequences of over exposure led to an immediate heated response. I commend any person who has the skills to educate children and I do agree with you parents are the responsible persons to discipline their children I think it's wrong that many countries education systems have now reached the point where life skills have to be taught by you the teacher/educator. As you rightly point out my parents dished out the punishment. You are right and it's a shame that you are left with having the I have to take control here factor.

Thank you for your sensible response. I hope you see mine in kind.

Melanoma

This is a brief rundown on melanoma it is US related but can apply anywhere

(Personal Opinion Only)

In the past, if you had asked your Pediatrician about a suspicious mole and the possibility of skin cancer, you might have gotten a "don't worry - kids don't get melanoma" type response.

Unfortunately, kids do get melanoma and the incidence has been rising, just as it has been rising in adults.

According to the National Cancer Institute, "melanoma is the most serious type of cancer of the skin" with almost 60,000 people getting diagnosed with malignant melanoma each year.

Although still uncommon in kids, the incidence has more than doubled, from 3 per million in 1982 to almost 7 per million in 2002. That adds up to about 500 kids now getting diagnosed with melanoma each year.

The number of kids getting diangosed with melanoma is not large, but they are too large to simply dismiss a mole that appears unusual. You should be aware of the warning signs of melanoma which includes moles or birthmarks that have these characteristics (notify you doctor):

Asymmetry: in which one half of the mole isn't the same as the other.

Border: the moles edges are irregular or notched.

Color: the color isn't the same throughout the mole, especially if it has a mix of tan, brown, white, red, pink, gray, blue, or black.

Diameter: the mole is larger than 5mm (about 1/4 inch or the size of a pencil eraser).

Elevation: the mole has recently become raised.

You should notify your child's doctor if you notice any of the above characteristics or warning signs; if a mole is quickly changing in size or color; if the outline becomes notched; if the surface becomes rough, scaly or ulcerated; if it itches, tingles, bleeds, weeps; or looks different from other moles on his body.

A monthly exam of your child's skin may help you detect a suspicious mole at an early stage. Also be sure to have your Pediatrician check moles that look unusual at each office visit.

Regular checkups are especially important for people who are most at risk for developing melanoma, or skin cancer, who can have the following characteristics:

Frequently blisters and gets sunburn after exposure to the sun and had multiple episodes of sunburn during childhood.

Has excessive exposure to the sun, especially during childhood.

Has fair skin.

Has a family history of skin cancer.

Has many (more than 50) ordinary moles: Having many moles increases the risk of developing melanoma. Teach your children to wear sunglasses that have UV-absorbing lenses. The label should specify that the lenses block at least 99 percent of UVA and UVB radiation. Sunglasses can protect both the eyes and the skin around the eyes.

This melanoma screening quiz can also help you see if your kids have any of the signs or symptoms of this common type of skin cancer.

Edited May 19, 2005 by MP5

[chownah]

MP5...perhaps you didn't understand my post or maybe I wasn't clear enough. I would not run them in the sun or put them out there long enough to inflict any damage. Ten minutes in the sun will not cause heat exhaustion and these fat, KFC eating teenagers could use the exercise. They've got so much fluid in their bodies they couldn't possibly sweat it out in ten minutes; especially if they're only doing 20 squats then standing there for the rest of the time. Maybe if Mom and Dad did their jobs at home, then us educators wouldn't need to use this kind of punishment. If you have ever taught Thai teenagers you would resort to similar punishment tactics since you're obviously not allowed to dish out the same punishments our parents gave us when we were kids. If you have a class of typical Thai teenagers and you're easy on them, you will pay for it in the near future. Better to be a bit tough but fair at the same time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that using punishment MAY be necessary sometimes in school but it really shows a failure of the teachaer's work to control and instruct the classroom. HOWEVER, you may have stumbled upon something important here. For the majority of students sitting being inactive for long periods tends to shut off their brain and taking a break and doing light physical activity will get the circulation going again and enhance learning. I would think, however, if you could make this break a reward instead of a punishment you would get better results. BUT I AM FULLY AWARE THAT EVERY CLASSROOM IS DIFFERENT AND I AM NOT TRYING TO PASS THIS OFF AS A 100% PANACEA FOR CLASSROOM PROBLEMS.

Of course I am off topic here since this thread is about Thai Prejudice...not classroom management.

Edited May 19, 2005 by chownah

[moebius]

MP5...perhaps you didn't understand my post or maybe I wasn't clear enough. I would not run them in the sun or put them out there long enough to inflict any damage. Ten minutes in the sun will not cause heat exhaustion and these fat, KFC eating teenagers could use the exercise. They've got so much fluid in their bodies they couldn't possibly sweat it out in ten minutes; especially if they're only doing 20 squats then standing there for the rest of the time. Maybe if Mom and Dad did their jobs at home, then us educators wouldn't need to use this kind of punishment. If you have ever taught Thai teenagers you would resort to similar punishment tactics since you're obviously not allowed to dish out the same punishments our parents gave us when we were kids. If you have a class of typical Thai teenagers and you're easy on them, you will pay for it in the near future. Better to be a bit tough but fair at the same time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think you are a bad person and I understand your frustration somewhat because I worked with teens and prefer that group.

Consequences and corporal punishments are different approaches to the same problem. Tough and fair applies. But developing a system where they know and can keep their own scorecard as individuals and as a group ultimately makes them responsible for their own actions. It takes work and can be frustrating, especially dealing with administration.

One or the other or both requires consistancy. Work out your methods with other teachers (and administration) before you consider what you are doing works or is 'right'' - then life will get easier for you in the long run.

Also, I do believe instilling an idea about one's own health should be a positive and bulding experience.

good luck ...and if you consider it uphill then try to think of it as training. There is something positive in everything. I learn just as much from my students as they do from me. Maybe more..

ps: I use whitening toothpaste.

[Thaiboxer]

MP5, Moebius and Chownah...thanks for your responses. They were interesting, informative and not directed as an attack. It's nice to get decent responses to topics such as these on thaivisa.com.

Chownah: As you said, a teacher who has to use punishment tactics can be considered to be not doing a good job of teaching/classroom management but you also realize one of the biggest problems affecting kids these days: physical inactivity which of course affects their mental status as well. When I took my kindergarten kids for some run around free time in the play room, it helped to burn off excess calories and it got rid of any pent up energy/frustration they had. Lessons tended to run more smoothly after these sessions. Now that the regular school year has started, they haven't been to the playroom yet but I do give them light exercises to do in the mornings which helps settle them down.

MP5...It looks as if you've done your homework on malignant melanomas; interesting stuff.

Moebius...I no longer teach teenagers. I gave that up after having worked in both a government school and a private school. A good point about that age group is that when you do get a good student you can generally have a conversation with them. However, for every one of those so many drive you crazy. Their attitudes towards foreign teachers (and even Thai teachers sometimes) were horrible to say the least. It shocked me when I first started teaching since Thailand is well-known for its culture which emphasizes respect for elders (especially teachers), kindness and gentleness. Guess the Western influence has brought out the worst of both worlds in so many of them.

I teach kindergarten now and they are A LOT more managable than high school kids. They are energetic and naughty at times but not in the same way that teens are. They respond quite well to me and we've had some great lessons. There's so much you can teach them at that age...things like good manners, sharing, and of course polite speech in English. Their attention spans are not long so classes are short and involve a lot of physical activities, drawing and coloring.

It's too bad that many kids' parents don't raise them well these days but maybe I can make a difference with the younger ones.

[mnoorsapl]

Its not just in Thailand, my friend in Malaysia made the same comments....hes pure Malay, but said how him, and all his friends view the most attractive people as half asian half caucasion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The world is opening up, there is bound to be inter-racial marriage not just in Thailand and Malaysia. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[chownah]

To me, there is beauty in all colors...

Shapes....  Eh, I aint that liberal just yet.

When my son was born my wife was so happy to see that his skin appears to be white like me.... 

  I told her, I could care less what his color was....  he is my son, he is beautiful to me no matter what.

My wife is fairly white for a Thai, and when she hides from the son as if she shall melt....  I just tell her she is being crazy...

Oh well, it is culture, and it controls us humans.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I tell my wife that the only way she could be more beautiful to me is if whe were just a bit darker....and I mean it!!!

[Erawan]

This is something that greatly irritates me too. This OBSESSION with white, I look at the people on TV and scream "These aren't real people!" It's all fake! I can't see this be anything but detrimental towards Thai society.

The media here is just completely obsessed with beauty, everything is covered from adverts, to soaps, to regular shows. Exposure to 'unattractive' people is limited as much as possible. I have to say that it is taking its toll on me and it has warped my mind a bit - must buy new clothes!

Perhaps I'm over reacting, but I do think it has very definite negative psychological effects, especially on the younger, more impressionable generation.