Thailand To Jail Foreigners At Political Rallies

[elcent]

My take on a decree that prohibits foreigners from attending a red rally ( which is world wide basic human right) , is that the government feels at some point they may have to open up with guns to stop any rioting. Killing a few foreigners would look really really bad.

It happened in black May 1992. It was not random but on purpose, some people not even near the venues of troubles, shot at blank range. And yes, I have seen Indians and Pakistanis in the front waving flags on a hijacked bus that time. I have seen the army instructor was a farang when the crackdown started. A Reuter's journalist got very confused about this, so did I. During the crackdown in the hotel, all video matrials were confiscated, at least what they could fetch. CNN, and many others lost time witness material this way. I have talked to the commuists who were at the democracy monument and army doctors there in private. I have seen people got marked by undercover agent and snipers took them out from the crowd.

The fastest and smartest were the guys from BBC. A German TV Channel general manager from a major big TV Station who flew in to cull the team here didn't even know that there was a crackdown and curfew.

Whilst in the hotel I convinced a girl not to leave at midnight while she claimed that she was working for Pacific Intercommunication, she wanted to go home and seemed so desperate about it and did not consider that the whole area was a war zone. It turned out that she was the daughter of the Thai intelligence boss the next morning, her dad didn't even know that she was there when he led the foreigners out of the war zone. ...

Edited March 9, 2010 by elcent

[jackr]

Foreigners should stay away

[Moonrakers]

A non-electoral Government and PM selection process will not be accepted.

Welcome to Thaivisa.

Please gen up on your knowledge before posting again.

Thanks

[Oberkommando]

Why should foreign taxpayers not be allowed to partake in peaceful protest?

This Government's slip is showing again.

[TAWP]

One thing that worries (well one of many to be honest) - if this is to remove the worry of immigrant workers swelling the numbers (enforced or not), then it isn't expected to be farang, but Buremese, Laos, Cambodians etc. Just how are they going to know that the protestors are immigramnts without arresting them - are they going to round up everyone? or go along checking IDs? Seems a litle hard to enforce other than the threat of the odd arrested troublemaker being caught out. Safety in numbers

Ofcourse they will not do a general ID check, but if a truck from a manufacturer comes and unloads some 80 Burmese workers at the protest site, then they will be handled etc. Some of us living here have even started to learn to recognize where people are from, in general. And so can the police etc.

[a99az]

Mad, mad, mad, mad, mad.

5 years jail for going to a demo!!!! Franco, Benito Mussolini, Hitler, Saddam Hussein, Than Shwe's and scores of others like them pulled stunts like this to keep the power. Looks like another name could be added to this list. Bad way to go.

[animatic]

The issue of foreigner's aside, considering it has been amply discussed, I also noted the article which launched this thread had an interesting take on the "People's war against the Elite" rally this weekend

And I quote,"Thaksin supporters, known as Red Shirts.........will hold one of their biggest rallies.....against a Supreme Court decision"

So that is what this is all about? A million protesters and their 100,000 private vehicles converging on Bangkok are all uniformly incensed by a court decision and are going to do something about it.

That must have been the "mother of all court decisions" to inflame such a reaction. Never in the annals of jurisprudence and national historical judicial events has such fervour been generated by a single court decision. This is truly remarkable.

Lets get this right.

A momentum has been building within the ranks of the silent majority, from whom Electoral Democracy was stolen three years ago by a coup. They will recapture their Electoral Democratic human rights, either this weekend or in the future.

That is what this is all about!

A non-electoral Government and PM selection process will not be accepted.

That realization needs to sink in at some point in time.

This weekends rally will move this process along.

Sadly for you most all of your points are based on the FACADE

that has been rebranded on the face of the Red shirts,

but back in the rump it's still the same of BS game they are playing.

A rose by any other name would smell the same,

but so would a dumpster filled with rat feces would also smell the same

if you called it the HMS Queen Elezibeth II by name...

Silk Purse into sows ear or into horses ass?

[elcent]

Mad, mad, mad, mad, mad.

5 years jail for going to a demo!!!! Franco, Benito Mussolini, Hitler, Saddam Hussein, Than Shwe's and scores of others like them pulled stunts like this to keep the power. Looks like another name could be added to this list. Bad way to go.

The gov will take the mickey for not responding reasonable. Just my guess. Whoever with a reasonable mindset would not join this madness. Most of them just observe, except a few Asians.

Edited March 9, 2010 by elcent

[TerraPosse]

My take on a decree that prohibits foreigners from attending a red rally ( which is world wide basic human right) , is that the government feels at some point they may have to open up with guns to stop any rioting. Killing a few foreigners would look really really bad.

You pretty much nailed it.

[Jingthing]

My take on a decree that prohibits foreigners from attending a red rally ( which is world wide basic human right) , is that the government feels at some point they may have to open up with guns to stop any rioting. Killing a few foreigners would look really really bad.

You pretty much nailed it.

That may be one of many reasons. However, if it does come to that, consider that it might get to the point that the army has no choice but to fight deadly force with deadly force, as might have happened at Black Songkran, but didn't. Lets hope it doesn't happen.

These security measures look harsh. They are harsh. However, there is something we don't know. We don't know the internal intelligence of the Thai government as to the severity of the violent threat of the red shirts. From a PR point of view, I doubt they wanted to do this. It doesn't look good. But consider that perhaps they had little choice.

Edited March 9, 2010 by Jingthing

[monkfish]

Beware all foreigners wearing red shirts on the 12th will be arrested.

If you go to Bangkok take a yellow shirt and you will be OK

I should work for the Nation

[DP25]

There are already going to be thousands of white and East Asian foreigners in and the general vicinity of the rally. Or have people forgotten where these are held? This is to stop the forcing of Burmese factory workers going to the rallies and being used as cannon fodder by the reds. Thai factory workers of course will still be vulnerable to this tactic unfortunately.

[SeanMoran]

Beware all foreigners wearing red shirts on the 12th will be arrested.

If you go to Bangkok take a yellow shirt and you will be OK

I should work for the Nation

It's okay. Friday is blue-shirt day. Sunday might be a bit of a concern though...

[elcent]

Beware all foreigners wearing red shirts on the 12th will be arrested.

If you go to Bangkok take a yellow shirt and you will be OK

I should work for the Nation

H_ll, I have put moth balls to the storage of my red shirts since two years now. When can I wear them again? Have only two though.

[Ulysses G.]

Personally I dont have any problems being excluded from such lunacy as this. What alot of people don't realise is, at gatherings like this the mood can change very very quickly (especially here in Thailand) and one moment everything seem relatively fine and then the crowd turns and people get injured and killed.

If you go to an event like this as a foriegner, your a first class idiot.

Another classic, sensible post by neverdie!

[elcent]

from tomorrow on we'll see W-T-F before S-S.

[Jingthing]

There are already going to be thousands of white and East Asian foreigners in and the general vicinity of the rally. Or have people forgotten where these are held? This is to stop the forcing of Burmese factory workers going to the rallies and being used as cannon fodder by the reds. Thai factory workers of course will still be vulnerable to this tactic unfortunately.

In chaotic situations, innocent people will get hurt. However, the typical red shirt protester is usually fairly easy to identify with their dress and manner.

[elcent]

There are already going to be thousands of white and East Asian foreigners in and the general vicinity of the rally. Or have people forgotten where these are held? This is to stop the forcing of Burmese factory workers going to the rallies and being used as cannon fodder by the reds. Thai factory workers of course will still be vulnerable to this tactic unfortunately.

In chaotic situations, innocent people will get hurt. However, the typical red shirt protester is usually fairly easy to identify with their dress and manner.

Those I have seen today wouldn't even kill a mosquito.

[ManilaLover]

Beware all foreigners wearing red shirts on the 12th will be arrested.

If you go to Bangkok take a yellow shirt and you will be OK

I should work for the Nation

Don't get the point of this whole story... are FOREIGNERS the big threat to society ????

Why double standards ? Or just a rather poor attempt to tell us they not want us to get in danger ?

[RKASA]

There are already going to be thousands of white and East Asian foreigners in and the general vicinity of the rally. Or have people forgotten where these are held? This is to stop the forcing of Burmese factory workers going to the rallies and being used as cannon fodder by the reds. Thai factory workers of course will still be vulnerable to this tactic unfortunately.

In chaotic situations, innocent people will get hurt. However, the typical red shirt protester is usually fairly easy to identify with their dress and manner.

This is true about 80% are 40 to 50 years of age, female and carry red clappers.

[geriatrickid]

In chaotic situations, innocent people will get hurt. However, the typical red shirt protester is usually fairly easy to identify with their dress and manner.

And I'm sure those that live in fear of the workers, will gleefully proclaim from the safety of their local bar, "And don't forget the colour of the skin, the beady eyes, the apelike intelligence level, etc. etc."

Discomforting statement, and yet it is one made by too many people in Thai Visa. Please do not lose sight of the fact that these are people that will bleed when wounded, and that suffer due to the inequities imposed by a select few. hopefully, folks will refrain from dehumanizing these people, as that just makes it easier to commit violence.

[Scott]

Thanks Geriatrickid. Something I hope everyone remembers.

[richieudon]

Get a Chelsea shirt.... you know it makes sense!!!

Bad news.....I had already purchased my bozo the clown outfit for this friday

i know just bought a red liverpool top. think had better put that back in the cupbaord

No worries, just tell everybody it is Man U and not Liverpool

[landofthefree]

So what happens to the foreign journalists that come here to report (US, UK, Japan, Korean, Chinese)? In order to report they have to be at the protests.... This could be used as an attempt to suppress un-moderated information.

Don't go looking for arguments.

Reporters have nothing to do with this.

I am not looking for arguments journalists that are reporting from/working here are "migrant workers". Tell me where it says they are excluded?

There is no point in splitting hairs as it achieves nothing. It is obvious what they mean, after all do you really thing that they would have any intention of jailing BBC/CNN reporters etc?

Don't worry they wont do anything to Brits they daren't upset the British Government by misstreating Brits and they don't want to become a colony now do they?

[elcent]

Monday, February 8, 2010 http://www.irrawaddy.org/article.php?art_id=17761&page=1

International Lawyers Question Thailand's Security Law

A weak rule of law is contributing to political division and violence in Thailand, according to the International Commission of Jurists (ICJ).

A report issued by the ICJ at a Bangkok seminar said the Thai government needs to find a balance between protecting citizens and guaranteeing security on the one hand, and maintaining the rule of law under international human rights obligations on the other.

The International Commission of Jurists is a non-governmental organization of lawyers from around the world which works “to ensure that international human rights law is actually implemented” at national levels,

At the Bangkok seminar, held at Chulalongkorn University, a panel discussed Thailand's Internal Security Act (ISA). One panelist, Roger Normand, the ICJ's Asia-Pacific director, acknowledged that the ISA is an improvement on original drafts, and is less-restrictive than the Emergency Decree that remains in force in the Muslim-majority south.

But a weak rule of law contributes to political divides and violence in Thailand, according to the ICJ, which said it was concerned at the ISA's “failure to clearly define the concept of a threat to national security.”

This “legal uncertainty,” the ICJ said, was “likely to have a chilling effect on freedom of association and expression, and to negatively impact on privacy rights.”

Noting that no specific level of violence was required to assess an internal security threat, the ICJ said this risked “blurring the line between security threats and legitimate political dissent.”

To address real and perceived security threats, the ISA gives significant powers to Thailand's Internal Security Operations Command (ISOC),which was set up to deal with Communist uprisings in the 1960s and 1970s. While in power as Thai Prime Minister, Thaksin Shinawatra reduced the powers of the ISOC and the influence within it of the army.

However, after the 2006 coup the ISOC was granted extra powers and the role of the army was upgraded. The downsizing of military budgets implemented under Thaksin has also been reversed, the ICJ said, although some of Thailand’s establishment argue that the country's military spending still lags behind southeast Asian counterparts.

The Bangkok panel was joined briefly by one of the men closely involved in the creation of the ISA—acting government spokesman Panitan Wattanayagorn, who said the measure was a response to Thailand security and political conditions. “Laws come about and are made as these conditions change,” he said.

The ICJ agreed that “states have an obligation under international law to protect the human rights of people within their jurisdiction, and the right to security is part of this.” When violence takes place under a political agenda, states have the right to prevent it and punish the perpetrators.

Panitan compared the ISOC to the US Department of Homeland Security, which was set up after the terrorist attacks in the US on Sept 11 2001.

Seven times in the latter half of 2009, the Thai government declared exceptional powers under the ISA to be in force, in four southern districts of Muslim unrest and in other areas where anti-government demonstrations had broken out.

The ICJ stopped short of recommending the repeal of the ISA but said certain provisions “that violate or risk violating international human rights obligations” needed to be amended.

The ICJ recommended that the language of the act should be revised to better define the SOC's powers and jurisdiction, and that human rights protections should be made explicit in the legislation. The ICJ also recommended that the provision for the prime minister to delegate direction of the ISOC to the head of the army should be abolished.

Originally, the army commander-in-chief was to head the ISOC, but under the revised ISA, the prime minister is the ISOC Director.

However, there is a significant caveat to this, as the prime minister can delegate authority over the ISOC to the head of the army. The ICJ says that this is not ideal as it means that civilian control of the ISOC depends on the relative strength of the prime minister in a country where coups and coup attempts are frequent.

Coup rumors circulated recently after the appearance of armored vehicles on Bangkok streets, with Thailand awaiting a Feb 26 verdict on frozen assets belonging to deposed former premier Thaksin.

Pro-Thaksin “red shirts” are staging a series of protests against the looming High Court decision, which some believe will go against the former premier.

Panitan believes that the ISA might be deployed in coming weeks, but told journalists that no decision had yet been taken.

Associate Prof Somchai Preecha-silpakul of Chiang Mai University went further than the ICJ in criticising the ISA.

He said the law was “about government security not state security” and gave the military “a role in Thai politics.”

This role could be decisive in deciding who governs Thailand, according to fellow panelist Naruemon Thabchompon, of the Faculty of Political Science at Chulalongkorn University. She said the ISA allows military officers to effectively act as “kingmakers” in Thai politics, in keeping with what she termed the “Thai style of democracy,” which allows “prominent personalities to have a disproportionate say in [the question of] by whom and how the country is ruled.”

[otherstuff1957]

Well, if Frewert doesn't sign up to TVF with yet another id for the next five years we will know what happened!

[neverdie]

Personally I dont have any problems being excluded from such lunacy as this. What alot of people don't realise is, at gatherings like this the mood can change very very quickly (especially here in Thailand) and one moment everything seem relatively fine and then the crowd turns and people get injured and killed.

If you go to an event like this as a foriegner, your a first class idiot.

Another classic, sensible post by neverdie!

I thought you said, "What a classic, first sensible post by neverdie".

Anyway, three cheers for me "Hip Hip Horay"!

[rainman]

So, what happened to basic human rights and freedom of expression?

[neverdie]

So, what happened to basic human rights and freedom of expression?

You are free to exercise those rights in your own country rainman.....how hard is that to understand?

[landofthefree]

So, what happened to basic human rights and freedom of expression?