Thaksin's Family Not Fleeing, But Flying Out Of Thailand

[animatic]

Steve with out quoting the whole lucid p-ost.

You have hit the nail on the head perfectly.

That you are Thai and clearly well educated and informed makes it even more powerful.

I for one never guessed you were Thai in all this time, though I had not formed an opinion of your origins.

It is a pleasure to read facts and valid opinion from you whenever those missives arrive.

[Insight]

If that is steveromagnino's last post on the upcoming events this weekend, any chance it could be made a sticky?

[golferchin76]

Probably worth noting that for all the fleeing around she's doing, Potjaman remains a convicted criminal in her own right with a 3 year prison sentence hanging over her head. Her conviction appeal remains pending.

Yes and that's what wonders me. How could she even leave the airport, seaport, etc?

[scorecard]

I think I will stop posting in these Thaksin threads, because it is getting simply dull that every single thread running now is full of the same mistruths and comments...we are just going round in circles.

- Thaksin was elected when he was kicked out by the coup (illegal election following Thaksin's own resignation as PM)

- the yellow shirts were not prosecuted for the airport occupation, but the red shirts will be (Arisaman and the other thugs are also walking the streets...justice takes time)

- Thaksin is the only one who cares about the poor (current crop policies are far better than anything during TRT; healthcare now free and it works; improved social security)

- Red shirters are peaceful, mostly women (Arisaman/Seh Daeng is not exactly suggesting peaceful means, their leaders are flying abroad)

- red shirts represent the majority of the population (they can't even get 1 million)

- traffic will be due to govt measures (red shirters already said they want to paralyse the capital)

- Thaksin isn't there because leadership is important (I thought the red shirts are for democracy.....this wasn't about Thaksin)

- This protest is about democracy....not Thaksin (Well in that case how come we are yet to see pro democracy anti Thaksin red shirters)

- If you aren't pro red shirt...they you are a yellow shirt elite upper class anti democracy coup supporter (<deleted>; I can be completely pro democracy, but recognise that certain standards have to be met, and that elected officials must behave by a certain code of conduct or they are liable to end up in court....not matter how popular they are....apparently this shade of grey does not exist in the world of PR strategy for the red shirts....and the red shirt supporters here lap it up)

- AIS got advantages under THaksin....but so did all telcos (<deleted>; the tilted field helped AIS more, in addition they avoided the debt of the baht crash as Thaksin was the only one who didn't have significant debts and also had a cheaper network because GSM 2 watt is a cheaper network to build....granted in a monopoly to him by Chalerm/Chavalit (one of them) plus he then instigated specific ownership 25% regulations to attempt to strangle DTAC and True from debt restructure then changed the ownership to sell AIS; he also basically instigated most of his policies to support the incumbents and prevent outsiders like Orange/Hutchinson from coming in; his own sister in law was setting up the CDMA network to compete against AIS which was a failure no surprise - if you don't know how the telco laws here and what the case ruling was.....better we think you are an idiot than you post here and we know for sure)

- Thaksin didn't do anything wrong (he won't even show up to face the cases against him - there are plenty more)

- the court was biased (unless you studied commercial and contract law, you probably don't even understand the ruling anyhow, but of those who did, most feel he did indeed do all the things he was accused of - if anything I think he has got off light)

- all politicians are cheats - this is a double standard (well, so since there are a bunch of child molesters out there that never get caught, shall we legalise sleeping with 5 year olds...I note the red shirts have no problems with double standards of alpine golf course...if anything the red shirters should be applauding the decision and pushing for more cases like Alpine Golf, the fact they don't shows their position re democracy vs. Thaksin)

- since the yellow shirts occupied the airport, the red shirts should be allowed to (well this is just inane - just because Thaksin's son cheated in university, doesn't give the right to all students to cheat - what are we 5 years old?)

- I don't like the current govt; the red shirt policies are better (they don't have any clear policies - did you see any other than the crop cartel idea of mingkwan the last time they were in power???? Almost all the TRT policies that worked (which was like a few of the many discussed) are either still here and improved to be workable or replaced with something better (crop guaranteed prices for instance replacing the insane crop pledging scheme that is why THailand's stockpile paid during the PPP govt will likely just go rotten and be lost forever as it was bought at twice the market price)

Geriatric kid - I am not an American for your information, I am Thai. I have spent a fair amount of time in USA, and I applaud any country that has a functioning protest system.

I want these guys to be able to protest, to do so peacefully....that's their right.

Last year, around where i live, it was anything BUT peaceful, and the first steps were begun when 2 red shirters had a serious go at me within 100m of my house....they were wound up and ready to take our their aggression on someone. I recognise that this might have been isolated....except I've also seen what occured in APEC in pattaya and the complete lack of remorse from the leaders responsible. I hope....it will be peaceful. But some others where I live are not nearly as peace loving - as the red shirters found out in their 'peaceful' activities around Din Daeng last year...Thai people don't like invaders coming into their residential neighbourhoods to be thugs.

For your information Geriatric kid, I have no 'gang' and if what I say is 'irresponsible at best and inane at worst' then I feel like I have at least added some amusement and inane ravings to this very very worthwhile thread.

Agree with 99% of this post, provides some good underlying insight.

[scorecard]

Steve with out quoting the whole lucid p-ost.

You have hit the nail on the head perfectly.

That you are Thai and clearly well educated and informed makes it even more powerful.

I for one never guessed you were Thai in all this time, though I had not formed an opinion of your origins.

It is a pleasure to read facts and valid opinion from you whenever those missives arrive.

I agree with animatic, and for me the original post highlights another point; there are in fact many very capable, very insightful, many highly articulate, very caring people in Thailand and there always has been, but very few of them have ever entered parliamment.

But I don't say that to mean any criticism. The truth is that these very capable very sincere people simply would not associate themselves with the existing parties (read gangs of incapable leeches and thieves who have no hesitation to manipulate , intimidate and use the poor).

I do however see light at the end of the tunnel in PM abhisit and K. Korn, and I believe that within the next couple of years more capable people will join these two guys to build a new era in Thai politics. An era of capable and sincere people who realize that change is needed, and realize that there must be change (because it is right), there must be a better spread of wealth and better spread of opportunity for all Thais, and there must be equal justice for all Thais.

But I'm not suggesting that the Democrats are perfect, all partie have baggage.

Edited March 11, 2010 by scorecard

[golferchin76]

Yes Wolfie, you're on the mark,

this is the final signal that things will go Pear Shaped...

A replay of the BS. and disinformation of Songkran last,

as he let his little cockroach like spawn scuttle off to the shadowy corners.

Such as truly sad family.

If the man had any balls he would fly into the country (or cross by land) Thursday/Friday and lead the protests... i am fairly sure his dedicated red shirt followers would keep the police away from him (and lets be honest here, if you were a Thai policeman, would you try to arrest him if hes surrounded by 100,000 loyal supporters?)

His family leaving the country is clear evidence that *he* is expecting something to go down... If this were to be the peaceful protest the reds claim, why does his ex-wife and offspring need to flee the country? Yes indeed, this does not bode well... even my Thais friends are very concerned about this weekends activities, most of them getting out of BKK this weekend.

Time to hole up with a case of beer and a load of Mama noodles, this could be a rough ride guys!

I am holed up. I am armed to the teeth. One bulldog, one bull terrier, a few handguns, rifles, and 200 plus bullets I hope I can deter any idiotic red shirts who dare to break into my mooban and come close to my front door.

I am worried, however, because I know if unfortunately things go pear shaped, I am the only man in the house to defend 5 women. I fear for the worst, those inhumane robbery, rapes, murders done to the Chinese Indonesians by their locals 10 years ago.

There is a big difference between simple peaceful demonstration and '1 million' mass rally's crowd control goes bananas. I don't care about yellow or red shirts, but if any of them use rally's excuse and loot near me, I will shoot 'without' warning, and I am a cold hearted and dang good shooter.

For the first time, I think the Thai army should bring about their tanks and troops and dug up and wait on major northeast & northbound roads leading to Bangkok. Red shirts have no right to piss around in Bangkokians' land, even though this is where the government is.

On the other hand though, I just hope this is another media or Tsin's bluff, or a successful counter intelligence work from the yellow side. Yes Abhisit welcomes and will not disturb any peaceful demonstration (peace from a rally numbered at a million?). Is he even for real? He's Taichi is level 10. Red shirts behave because you are on TV and any wrong doing taped will further send Tsin's image into deeper shithole.

And if all is true, then Tsin grow some balls and dare to come back to fight and lead your own war. Do not throw shit in the air about success of democracy while the people from the land of smile fought on each other, shed blood for you. For you, this is not about democracy anymore, it is all about you. Planned, unplanned violences, or uncivil actions will not bring Thailand closer to more genuine democracy than it is now.

[mazeltov]

If that is steveromagnino's last post on the upcoming events this weekend, any chance it could be made a sticky?

hello fanboi, that is nothing more than a one sided rambling.

i enjoyed reading the geriatrickid entry. now that bitter steve response was good for a laugh, but nothing more. silly arguing on the internet.

[Sao Jiang Mai]

Fully agree with Steve, most of my fellow Thai friends do too. Those who think that reds are in the majority here are deluding themselves, most of us just want an end to this agenda-driven/self-preserving chaos so we can start working on bettering things for ALL. While I sympathise with the Isaan poor, they are not the only people who can claim to be Thai. The rest of us are just as Thai and we do not support Thaksin, his children, proxies, goons or anyone who is attempting to whitewash his crimes and bring him back. The poor have shown us that they have a voice and I believe that it will be listened to more and more; now they have to show us that they are respectful of democracy and the rule of law because that is the way we are going to get out of this mess.

[animatic]

If that is steveromagnino's last post on the upcoming events this weekend, any chance it could be made a sticky?

hello fanboi, that is nothing more than a one sided rambling.

i enjoyed reading the geriatrickid entry. now that bitter steve response was good for a laugh, but nothing more. silly arguing on the internet.

As opposed to one sided meshugana rambling?

I hear mad laughter in the corridor,

did someone leave the rubber rooms door ajar?

PR babbling or lost touch with reality,

only your hairdresser knows for sure.

[animatic]

Fully agree with Steve, most of my fellow Thai friends do too. Those who think that reds are in the majority here are deluding themselves, most of us just want an end to this agenda-driven/self-preserving chaos so we can start working on bettering things for ALL. While I sympathise with the Isaan poor, they are not the only people who can claim to be Thai. The rest of us are just as Thai and we do not support Thaksin, his children, proxies, goons or anyone who is attempting to whitewash his crimes and bring him back. The poor have shown us that they have a voice and I believe that it will be listened to more and more; now they have to show us that they are respectful of democracy and the rule of law because that is the way we are going to get out of this mess.

Hear hear!

[silk]

Is cowardice and hypocrisy passed genetically?

The flee or flight response is a behavioural trait of most sentient animals. Those that are able to master the ability are more likely to survive and to pass on their genes. You may deride the decision to leave a social disturbance, however, those of us that have been targeted for kidnapping and political violence, know when it is best to withdraw so as to live and to fight again. The goal is victory, not martyrdom.

It serves no political movement in the long term to lose its important leaders when they are needed most. Hence it is not a wise strategy if Mr. Thaksin were to march at the front of any protest.He is a target and is an important rallying point. At this stage of the protests, it serves the redshirt movement to have Mr. Thaksin free and acting as a thorn in the side of the government. The day Mr. Thaksin no longer serves a purpose to the red leadership, he will be disposed of. Movements have a bad habit of turning on their own, often quite savagely. I believe that the Thaksin family is at risk from the same type of mentally unbalanced people that would throw feces at a PM's residence or would throw grenades at a random target. Protests do attract seriously deranged people and these are the ones that usually provoke the serious violence.

What do you think about a thai woman speaking out on youtube? Is she a coward or brave ? Does she stand for her opinion taking any risk?

This is a question, your answer appreciated

[silk]

Is cowardice and hypocrisy passed genetically?

The flee or flight response is a behavioural trait of most sentient animals. Those that are able to master the ability are more likely to survive and to pass on their genes. You may deride the decision to leave a social disturbance, however, those of us that have been targeted for kidnapping and political violence, know when it is best to withdraw so as to live and to fight again. The goal is victory, not martyrdom.

It serves no political movement in the long term to lose its important leaders when they are needed most. Hence it is not a wise strategy if Mr. Thaksin were to march at the front of any protest.He is a target and is an important rallying point. At this stage of the protests, it serves the redshirt movement to have Mr. Thaksin free and acting as a thorn in the side of the government. The day Mr. Thaksin no longer serves a purpose to the red leadership, he will be disposed of. Movements have a bad habit of turning on their own, often quite savagely. I believe that the Thaksin family is at risk from the same type of mentally unbalanced people that would throw feces at a PM's residence or would throw grenades at a random target. Protests do attract seriously deranged people and these are the ones that usually provoke the serious violence.

LOL ... are you REALLY making excuses for the fugitive from Thaksin to hide out in Dubai and not lead his people? That really is the funniest thing I have seen on TV for a long time! The fact that he encourages people with their families to go march in his name and pays them but sends HIS family out of the country when the crap is about to hit the fan certainly shows a lack of both morals AND courage.

Why did they first fly to Switzerland and not directly to Germany? Do they need to access theor bank account first???

[anotherpeter]

What do you think about a thai woman speaking out on youtube? Is she a coward or brave ? Does she stand for her opinion taking any risk?

This is a question, your answer appreciated

I must admit, if I saw "red version" of this asking questions of the current government, I would say it was simply a propaganda video organised by the red leaders. The whole "when are you going to kill me" seemed a bit far fetched.

But the answers to some of the questions would be an interesting read/listen.

[Tanaka]

Probably worth noting that for all the fleeing around she's doing, Potjaman remains a convicted criminal in her own right with a 3 year prison sentence hanging over her head. Her conviction appeal remains pending.

Yeah right. And in the meantime she keeps her passport and is free to leave the country as she pleases. Any other country a convicted criminal can do this?

[golferchin76]

And how do you know he won't show up. Be careful what you ask for, you might get it. I can only see any of them being present a negative to the situation, but then I am not being self indulgent.

I see no reason to call his children cockroaches or the reds monkeys and commie's ether. Making them out to be sub human does nothing to enforce ones position. It is just singing to ones self and like minded.

Why will Taksin's presence in Thailand (much needed) will present a negative to the situation? Shouldn't he come back and fight his self inflicted so-called democracy, for his people?

We all know Taksin will not show up, base on history. And if he does, all memebers in this forum are willing to let you kick our left nuts.

Now....if he doesn't show up, you get to let all the members kick your right and left ones. Are you willing to bet?

Historically, he never show up before big events. He just shouts over the air.

Calling his offsprings names, is not against forum rules. Cockroaches, red monkeys, commies, are better than bitches, bastards. And since we are all stuck in this bull and inconveniences and have to deal with the anxiety and uncertainly, we need to vent.

[mrtoad]

If that is steveromagnino's last post on the upcoming events this weekend, any chance it could be made a sticky?

hello fanboi, that is nothing more than a one sided rambling.

i enjoyed reading the geriatrickid entry. now that bitter steve response was good for a laugh, but nothing more. silly arguing on the internet.

pot +kettle

[Insight]

If that is steveromagnino's last post on the upcoming events this weekend, any chance it could be made a sticky?

hello fanboi, that is nothing more than a one sided rambling.

i enjoyed reading the geriatrickid entry. now that bitter steve response was good for a laugh, but nothing more. silly arguing on the internet.

pot +kettle

What did he say, mrtoad? I couldn't force myself past the word "fanboi" ...

[mrtoad]

If that is steveromagnino's last post on the upcoming events this weekend, any chance it could be made a sticky?

hello fanboi, that is nothing more than a one sided rambling.

i enjoyed reading the geriatrickid entry. now that bitter steve response was good for a laugh, but nothing more. silly arguing on the internet.

pot +kettle

What did he say, mrtoad? I couldn't force myself past the word "fanboi" ...

You didn't miss out on anything by not going past the second word.

[Cayenne]

Fully agree with Steve, most of my fellow Thai friends do too. Those who think that reds are in the majority here are deluding themselves, most of us just want an end to this agenda-driven/self-preserving chaos so we can start working on bettering things for ALL. While I sympathise with the Isaan poor, they are not the only people who can claim to be Thai. The rest of us are just as Thai and we do not support Thaksin, his children, proxies, goons or anyone who is attempting to whitewash his crimes and bring him back. The poor have shown us that they have a voice and I believe that it will be listened to more and more; now they have to show us that they are respectful of democracy and the rule of law because that is the way we are going to get out of this mess.

Greetings from another Thai too! I just hate when the reds and some of the foreign media lump us as "elites" if we express our anti-Thaksin view. But am I really an elite? Let's see if I have anything in common:

1) Have assets worth billions. Uh, I am still paying for my 4 yr old Mazda 3 and have another 10 years to go on my home. Incidently, my home is near the Wongwien Yai area so you can imagine how scared I am for me and my family.

2) Have power and influence over military and police. Hmm, my wife's brother's friend is a traffic police. Does that count?

3) Hates Thaksin. Okay you got me there.

The irony that seems to be lost on these red shirts is that their beloved Thaksin has more in common with these "elites" than with them

[thaihome]

Greetings from another Thai too! I just hate when the reds and some of the foreign media lump us as "elites" if we express our anti-Thaksin view. But am I really an elite? Let's see if I have anything in common:

1) Have assets worth billions. Uh, I am still paying for my 4 yr old Mazda 3 and have another 10 years to go on my home. Incidently, my home is near the Wongwien Yai area so you can imagine how scared I am for me and my family.

2) Have power and influence over military and police. Hmm, my wife's brother's friend is a traffic police. Does that count?

3) Hates Thaksin. Okay you got me there.

The irony that seems to be lost on these red shirts is that their beloved Thaksin has more in common with these "elites" than with them

If you own a home and car, even if it is not paid for, then for most members here you are part of the elite. Their only exposure to Thai people tends to be very poor rural people for reason we will not go into. They are almost unaware that there is a middle class in Thailand.

TH

[anotherpeter]

Greetings from another Thai too! I just hate when the reds and some of the foreign media lump us as "elites" if we express our anti-Thaksin view. But am I really an elite? Let's see if I have anything in common:

1) Have assets worth billions. Uh, I am still paying for my 4 yr old Mazda 3 and have another 10 years to go on my home. Incidently, my home is near the Wongwien Yai area so you can imagine how scared I am for me and my family.

2) Have power and influence over military and police. Hmm, my wife's brother's friend is a traffic police. Does that count?

3) Hates Thaksin. Okay you got me there.

The irony that seems to be lost on these red shirts is that their beloved Thaksin has more in common with these "elites" than with them

If you own a home and car, even if it is not paid for, then for most members here you are part of the elite. Their only exposure to Thai people tends to be very poor rural people for reason we will not go into. They are almost unaware that there is a middle class in Thailand.

TH

There must be quite a few people up country that own cars and property. Does that mean they are all elite too? No, they are just rich red shirts. Somehow there is a difference.

[Moonrakers]

They are only Elite if they don't support Thaksin and if they don't support Thaksin then they must be elite.

Maybe my wife is 'elite' herself, I thought that there'd be more perks with the title though.

[Cayenne]

Well that settles it. I guess I am "elite" after all. Can I please have my Thailand Elite Card? Oh wait, that was Thaksin's too, wasn't it

[animatic]

Fully agree with Steve, most of my fellow Thai friends do too. Those who think that reds are in the majority here are deluding themselves, most of us just want an end to this agenda-driven/self-preserving chaos so we can start working on bettering things for ALL. While I sympathise with the Isaan poor, they are not the only people who can claim to be Thai. The rest of us are just as Thai and we do not support Thaksin, his children, proxies, goons or anyone who is attempting to whitewash his crimes and bring him back. The poor have shown us that they have a voice and I believe that it will be listened to more and more; now they have to show us that they are respectful of democracy and the rule of law because that is the way we are going to get out of this mess.

Greetings from another Thai too! I just hate when the reds and some of the foreign media lump us as "elites" if we express our anti-Thaksin view. But am I really an elite? Let's see if I have anything in common:

1) Have assets worth billions. Uh, I am still paying for my 4 yr old Mazda 3 and have another 10 years to go on my home. Incidently, my home is near the Wongwien Yai area so you can imagine how scared I am for me and my family.

2) Have power and influence over military and police. Hmm, my wife's brother's friend is a traffic police. Does that count?

3) Hates Thaksin. Okay you got me there.

The irony that seems to be lost on these red shirts is that their beloved Thaksin has more in common with these "elites" than with them

Yes, the irony is too deep for many to comprehend.

Spot on observations though.

Chockdee for the weekend mates, krab!

[RegularReader]

Fully agree with Steve, most of my fellow Thai friends do too. Those who think that reds are in the majority here are deluding themselves, most of us just want an end to this agenda-driven/self-preserving chaos so we can start working on bettering things for ALL. While I sympathise with the Isaan poor, they are not the only people who can claim to be Thai. The rest of us are just as Thai and we do not support Thaksin, his children, proxies, goons or anyone who is attempting to whitewash his crimes and bring him back. The poor have shown us that they have a voice and I believe that it will be listened to more and more; now they have to show us that they are respectful of democracy and the rule of law because that is the way we are going to get out of this mess.

Greetings from another Thai too! I just hate when the reds and some of the foreign media lump us as "elites" if we express our anti-Thaksin view. But am I really an elite? Let's see if I have anything in common:

1) Have assets worth billions. Uh, I am still paying for my 4 yr old Mazda 3 and have another 10 years to go on my home. Incidently, my home is near the Wongwien Yai area so you can imagine how scared I am for me and my family.

2) Have power and influence over military and police. Hmm, my wife's brother's friend is a traffic police. Does that count?

3) Hates Thaksin. Okay you got me there.

The irony that seems to be lost on these red shirts is that their beloved Thaksin has more in common with these "elites" than with them

Yes, the irony is too deep for many to comprehend.

Spot on observations though.

Chockdee for the weekend mates, krab!

Great posts Cayenne and Sao Jiang Mai.

I am not Thai, but as I work in Thailand, in a "middle class" managerial occupation, I guess you could call me a "supporter" of the "Elites" - how I hate that term - but my wife is as Isaan as you can get and I have many Red Shirt friends.

This entire "class" thing has been expanded beyond a real need to help a lot of Thais, into a decietful campaign for one man.

Edited March 12, 2010 by RegularReader

[gemini81]

If that is steveromagnino's last post on the upcoming events this weekend, any chance it could be made a sticky?

hello fanboi, that is nothing more than a one sided rambling.

i enjoyed reading the geriatrickid entry. now that bitter steve response was good for a laugh, but nothing more. silly arguing on the internet.

geriatric kid always has some cool military strategies..steveo has some nice essays: if i was retired I could spend the 3 hours required to read them. how about just get to the point, it has more impact. more details than an unemployed housewife.

[scorecard]

Greetings from another Thai too! I just hate when the reds and some of the foreign media lump us as "elites" if we express our anti-Thaksin view. But am I really an elite? Let's see if I have anything in common:

1) Have assets worth billions. Uh, I am still paying for my 4 yr old Mazda 3 and have another 10 years to go on my home. Incidently, my home is near the Wongwien Yai area so you can imagine how scared I am for me and my family.

2) Have power and influence over military and police. Hmm, my wife's brother's friend is a traffic police. Does that count?

3) Hates Thaksin. Okay you got me there.

The irony that seems to be lost on these red shirts is that their beloved Thaksin has more in common with these "elites" than with them

If you own a home and car, even if it is not paid for, then for most members here you are part of the elite. Their only exposure to Thai people tends to be very poor rural people for reason we will not go into. They are almost unaware that there is a middle class in Thailand.

TH

There must be quite a few people up country that own cars and property. Does that mean they are all elite too? No, they are just rich red shirts. Somehow there is a difference.

Well here's another question.

Woud you class as 'elites' (whatever elites means) the local puea thai / ppp / trt members who have manipulated and intimidated the poor for decades and got very rich in the meantime, and the local kunmans under their wings, many of whom have very large luxurious house, numerous expensive vehicles, lots of land and treat the poor farmers as 4th class scum.

Where do all these people rate in the so called 'elites' ladder?