Will Thaksin Be Saved?

[daboyz1]

Surely there is a disconnect between what the Reds want - democracy, and what Thaksin wants - his money and power. The Reds are using Thaksin to try and remove the dominance of the elite, and Thaksin is using the Reds to try and remove the government, (and therefore get back into the country and get his money).

The Reds aspirations are worthy, but unfortunately they have hitched their wagon to a thoroughly distateful character. This shambles will surely unravel. But the desire for true democracy (such as these things ever exist in SE Asia - and I don't really see it in any ASEAN member country), will not die now, in the sense that there has to be a power shift. Whether it is by peaceful means over time, or swiftly through violence such as that being demanded this weekend, remains to be seen. But it will surely happen.

Agreed. Hitching their horse to the Thaksin wagon is a bad idea for them.

[Samuian]

For sure - a good commentary - but Tulsathit Taptim seriously under estimates the tenacity and desperation of Thaksin and his associates to affect a political change to their mutual advantage.

Events some time next week (not Sunday) will test the government's resolve to its limits.

imho, Tulsathit has made a rather sobering observation and commented on the recent state of affairs.

because of the situation, nobody want to surface as "the leader" (who could be held responsible later),

differing opinions, differing goals is another weight thrown in the equation, that by now most of

the important people of the very center of these instigated turmoils have as a precaution left for safe havens...

This alone tell volumes!

So no direction, no leadership, no sponsoring, only cries for help from a distant land, foer help

to get his questionable, partly ill gotten "life savings" back, where his former wife claims that this is "My money"!

Don;t they know themselves, what belongs to whom?

And bring him back to power!

First question should be: "What was so outstanding this man and his government really accomplished?"

What would it be? That would make it worth while, to go through all the trouble and open the can of worms in bringing him back!?

What did he/his government do?

Isn't it the duty of EVERY government to serve it's people?

What was so outstanding, what this man supposedly did?

And more and more poeple may realize that after all he isn't worth the trouble to go through!

He is holding the entire Nation by now for long enough hostage -

it's time to break the deadlock and go on!

And yes as Mr.Kantabutr put it in his "letter to the Editor"

Educate the people, specially the rural folks about who this man really is,

what he did and what he aspires to become!

.................edited to shorten......

The government should educate the rural folk, in language that they understand, as to how Thaksin stole from the disadvantaged when he stole from state-owned agencies. Show them, for example, that when TOT suffered financially due to policies that favoured Shin Corp, the loss significantly lessened TOT's ability to extend service to the hinterlands. Show them how Thaksin and his then-wife set up a maze of shell companies to conceal their control over Shin Corp, in direct violation of laws designed to protect the nation's interests - which certainly includes the millions of poor Thais. Thaksin's lawyers should always be given equal opportunity to present their side of the case, with a cardboard cutout representing them if they decline to appear.

Show the rural poor that the judicial system that acquitted Thaksin, his ex-wife, Chalerm Yoobamrung, and five of his Cabinet ministers in other cases was impartial in this case as well, and has applied a single standard, that of the rule of law.

Burin Kantabutra

Bangkok

Source:

There is no smear campaign needed, there is plenty of evidence,

delivered by himself, about his notion of "genuine, eatable democracy"

[Old Man River]

Surely there is a disconnect between what the Reds want - democracy, and what Thaksin wants - his money and power.

While I want to agree with your statement above, I can't. It isn't that simple. The fact is, the Reds are made up of a number of independent groups with leaders wanting different things. Some want what you say, but their most powerful leaders (Thaksin included) want to take the current system and turn it upside down. That includes the monarchy. Most Reds don't want that, which is why Abhisit has asked them to think twice about joining this demonstration as it isn't just about house dissolution.

BTW, and I am just throwing this in here, the talks about a coup are rubbish. The military already has the ISA in place, so there is no gain to be had in a coup. Right now, the military has the same powers they would have if there was a coup. Once they put this thing down, they will be in the driver's seat as to whether Abhisit remains or not.

Edited March 12, 2010 by Old Man River

[samtam]

Old Man River - yes you're right, my view was simplistic. The Reds have many different aspirations, and no co-ordination, or obvious leader. This in itself will likely cause it to fail, but also the fact that they are using each other for different reasons.

[anotherpeter]

<snipped quote as too long ... see post #33>

Samuian, you ask some very valid questions and make some valid points.

The problem is there are a lot of people who *believe* he has done a lot of good. They have heard stories about the great things he's done. There is very little proof of it, but it's what they believe that's important.

The government can't go in there and tell the people about the bad things he has done, because that's just "elitest government propaganda".

The government can't even get out there and do their own good things, because they are chased away by the Thaksin crowds.

The government have a hard job ahead of them to win the hearts and minds of these people. If not win, at least OPEN the minds of these people.

[animatic]

Thaksin did several things that villagers in Issan really liked. He gave each village 1 or 2 million baht. They then lended that to whoever was in need. Interest was paid back to the village...but I am not sure if interest had to be paid back to the gov or Mr. T? Also, he setup a program where you could borrow 40k or 50k baht to buy a cow. You paid like 2k baht a year for interest.

Back then cows were very valuable (no so much today). So, some folks really did well with this. Others abused it and just bought a scooter...or drank it all. But the end result was they loved him for that.

He also did the 30 baht medical program (with all it's pros and cons). For many, this was a very big deal.

It is also proven that the poor really did get a boost while he was in office. Not sure if that was directly because of him, or just because the world economy was jamming then. But poverty did decrease under Mr. T.

I am also not a fan, but he is a very smart man. Sad he had to have it end this way...he could have done so much to help this country and yet focused on increasing his own wealth...and his circle of friends. Corruption, in the end, got him...

This post sums it up. The support for him is all about the Baht. I can understand that. Seems like the Dems should have continued those policies (maybe they did I'm not sure) Once the smoke clears from all this I hope the Democrats learn that Isaan and the north should not be ignored.

Thaksin is a no more than a common criminal who is out to destroy his own country so he can get his money and power back. I doubt he cares anything for the people of Thailand.

The Democrats are indeed continuing some of the populist policies created by Thaksin (yes, I'll give credit where it is due). Thaksin realizes that they may actually succeed and has urged his followers to heckle government officials whenever they are in the North.

I would like to see free and fair elections too, but not when the North is so much poisoned by the red shirts that candidates cannot campaign without the fear of violence. I recalled a Pheu Thai candidate who campaigned in the south last year (Surat Thani, was it?) and got beaten up, but that was by his fellow red shirts when he tried to ask for reimbursement for his campaign expenses

Yes it was the delightful Arisman who beat up a man 20 years his senior for

publicly asking for the promised reimbursement for PTP Surat Thai funding.

These people ran and lost, but without getting beaten up, allowed to speak where and when they wished,

and paid for it with their own local funds, but based on promises from PTP home office to help.

When that help was denied privately, they asked publicly and Arisman threw the man a beating publicly.

The same Arisman who asks redshirts to bring petrol filled bottles and create a sea of fire in Bangkok.

Is this the kind of leadership we want for Thailand?

[thaibkk]

question to you all :

in your home country, do you pay taxes when you sell shares?

shares and stock market ... you can lose all or win big

and for this... there is no tax owned to anyone ...

so why all the fuzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ?

I am not specially pro/contra toxin

but aren't they robbing him ?

it was his company / his shares or whatever ...

smells like communism ?

if there is/was tax due ... they should make him pay double (200% fine on owned tax) and give back the rest

no ?

think twice... if it was your company you (would have) sold ...

[hammered]

Surely there is a disconnect between what the Reds want - democracy, and what Thaksin wants - his money and power.

While I want to agree with your statement above, I can't. It isn't that simple. The fact is, the Reds are made up of a number of independent groups with leaders wanting different things. Some want what you say, but their most powerful leaders (Thaksin included) want to take the current system and turn it upside down. That includes the monarchy. Most Reds don't want that, which is why Abhisit has asked them to think twice about joining this demonstration as it isn't just about house dissolution.

BTW, and I am just throwing this in here, the talks about a coup are rubbish. The military already has the ISA in place, so there is no gain to be had in a coup. Right now, the military has the same powers they would have if there was a coup. Once they put this thing down, they will be in the driver's seat as to whether Abhisit remains or not.

There is some specualtion on Thai webboards about Abhisit's remark that he will disolve parlaiment to avoid a coup. We may end up with the same government but a different PM

[tezzainoz]

question to you all :

in your home country, do you pay taxes when you sell shares?

shares and stock market ... you can lose all or win big

and for this... there is no tax owned to anyone ...

so why all the fuzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ?

I am not specially pro/contra toxin

but aren't they robbing him ?

it was his company / his shares or whatever ...

smells like communism ?

if there is/was tax due ... they should make him pay double (200% fine on owned tax) and give back the rest

no ?

think twice... if it was your company you (would have) sold ...

Yes in my country you have to pay tax on all earnings

and if you do not

Off to Jail and do not PASS Go

[rogerdee123]

question to you all :

in your home country, do you pay taxes when you sell shares?

shares and stock market ... you can lose all or win big

and for this... there is no tax owned to anyone ...

dam_n right we pay taxes on profits when we sell shares .... it's called capital gains tax.

WHat planet are you from?

[rogerdee123]

>

>question to you all :

>

>in your home country, do you pay taxes when you sell shares?

>

>shares and stock market ... you can lose all or win big

>

>and for this... there is no tax owned to anyone ...

dam_n right we pay taxes on profits when we sell shares .... it's called capital gains tax.

WHat planet are you from?

Oh you must be from TaksinWorld or maybe the Red Planet

[gemini81]

question to you all :

in your home country, do you pay taxes when you sell shares?

shares and stock market ... you can lose all or win big

and for this... there is no tax owned to anyone ...

so why all the fuzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ?

I am not specially pro/contra toxin

but aren't they robbing him ?

it was his company / his shares or whatever ...

smells like communism ?

if there is/was tax due ... they should make him pay double (200% fine on owned tax) and give back the rest

no ?

think twice... if it was your company you (would have) sold ...

you have absolutely no understanding of the royal decree laws. at least think before you type! He concealed all his funds, never paid tax on them. he changed laws for his own convenience, abused power for personal gain, lied about business trips...the list goes on. guys like this dont pay tax in your country (or planet)?

[Jingthing]

Will Thaksin be saved? Its hard to say. After all Mr. Thaksin did go to a D-list college in the Texas USA Bible Belt.

[IvanDobsky]

so why all the fuzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ?

think twice... if it was your company you (would have) sold ...

it's not just about him but about the rather illuminating characters Arisman, Kittaya and various other henchmen who would happily tear the country apart if they could stand on top of the rubble.

if it was my company, I would have sold before I became PM to avoid a conflict of interests.

[craigt3365]

question to you all :

in your home country, do you pay taxes when you sell shares?

shares and stock market ... you can lose all or win big

and for this... there is no tax owned to anyone ...

so why all the fuzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ?

I am not specially pro/contra toxin

but aren't they robbing him ?

it was his company / his shares or whatever ...

smells like communism ?

if there is/was tax due ... they should make him pay double (200% fine on owned tax) and give back the rest

no ?

think twice... if it was your company you (would have) sold ...

I think you need to research what event started all this trouble with Thaksin. Specifically had to do with selling shares.....and not paying taxes....

[Moonrakers]

question to you all :

in your home country, do you pay taxes when you sell shares?

shares and stock market ... you can lose all or win big

and for this... there is no tax owned to anyone ...

so why all the fuzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ?

I am not specially pro/contra toxin

but aren't they robbing him ?

it was his company / his shares or whatever ...

smells like communism ?

if there is/was tax due ... they should make him pay double (200% fine on owned tax) and give back the rest

no ?

think twice... if it was your company you (would have) sold ...

smells like communism ?

:D

Good one.

[ding]

Reds will toss anchovy fish sauce in small plastic bags. Mr T staging in Siem Reap maybe? Well something will smell fishy, pretty sure of that.

[anotherpeter]

There is some specualtion on Thai webboards about Abhisit's remark that he will disolve parlaiment to avoid a coup. We may end up with the same government but a different PM

"Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on Thursday pledged to overcome the political volatility, to rein in the situation through security measures and not to allow a coup under any circumstances. 'I am not trying to cling to power as I am willing to resign or dissolve the House if this can be a solution but I will not allow a coup to happen,' he said. " The Nation.

So IF (really big IF) there is a coup, he would be willing to step down. But what are the chances of there being a coup?

[craigt3365]

There is some specualtion on Thai webboards about Abhisit's remark that he will disolve parlaiment to avoid a coup. We may end up with the same government but a different PM

"Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on Thursday pledged to overcome the political volatility, to rein in the situation through security measures and not to allow a coup under any circumstances. 'I am not trying to cling to power as I am willing to resign or dissolve the House if this can be a solution but I will not allow a coup to happen,' he said. " The Nation.

If I am not mistaken, he has said this before???

[thaihome]

There is some specualtion on Thai webboards about Abhisit's remark that he will disolve parlaiment to avoid a coup. We may end up with the same government but a different PM

"Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on Thursday pledged to overcome the political volatility, to rein in the situation through security measures and not to allow a coup under any circumstances. 'I am not trying to cling to power as I am willing to resign or dissolve the House if this can be a solution but I will not allow a coup to happen,' he said. " The Nation.

So IF (really big IF) there is a coup, he would be willing to step down. But what are the chances of there being a coup?

I believe what the PM was referring to was not a coup, but losing a no confidence vote in next few days.

TH

[anotherpeter]

There is some specualtion on Thai webboards about Abhisit's remark that he will disolve parlaiment to avoid a coup. We may end up with the same government but a different PM

"Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on Thursday pledged to overcome the political volatility, to rein in the situation through security measures and not to allow a coup under any circumstances. 'I am not trying to cling to power as I am willing to resign or dissolve the House if this can be a solution but I will not allow a coup to happen,' he said. " The Nation.

So IF (really big IF) there is a coup, he would be willing to step down. But what are the chances of there being a coup?

I believe what the PM was referring to was not a coup, but losing a no confidence vote in next few days.

TH

Umm ... coup was mentioned several times ... no confidence vote wasn't mentioned. I think he was referring to a coup, since usually when you say "X", you are referring to "X".

[anotherpeter]

There is some specualtion on Thai webboards about Abhisit's remark that he will disolve parlaiment to avoid a coup. We may end up with the same government but a different PM

"Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on Thursday pledged to overcome the political volatility, to rein in the situation through security measures and not to allow a coup under any circumstances. 'I am not trying to cling to power as I am willing to resign or dissolve the House if this can be a solution but I will not allow a coup to happen,' he said. " The Nation.

If I am not mistaken, he has said this before???

He may have, I don't know. But there has been no coup, so there has been no need to act on it.

But, if there is a coup ... does he really have any choice anyway.

[golferchin76]

But the "reds" on here would have us believe that this weekends attempt to paralyze BKK is NOT about Thaksin. ...

yeah right

The anti-Thaksin here in in the Bangkok Media are desperately trying to make Thaksin the boogey man. This is an attempt to prevent a real election, properly supervised by the world observers from being held.

According to your own words Thaksin is an observer from Dubai. All Thai citizens have a right to be heard.

so easily provoked eh...

explain to the forum members in your opinion what is a fake and what is a real election. back up your writes with evidences not hearsay.

All Thai citizens have a right to be heard, true, and all Thai citizens (including non Thai residents who contribute to the country's economies) have a right to a safe life, political and economical stability TOO!

And consider this: You do not speak for all Thais, so stop saying 'all Thais'. NOT all Thai citizens will agree to your opinion, this time less than half of the population, which makes your voice a minority. Think about this and take it as a mature adult.

[Jingthing]

Abhisit has done very well staying in power as long as he had. He is giving a Thaksin a run for his money (and I do mean money) in the political longevity department. You can't say he is a nobody anymore. Of course, nothing lasts forever.

[animatic]

The thing I can not understand is

1)

MP's must first be voted in at their local electrate

The party with the most members will be the government

If at any time during the term, the governing party looses sitting members then the party or parties that have the numbers will be come the government

This is the system to my knowledge all over the world

If the government has fewer member than the opposition, then the government could never pass any law's and be unworkable

As the democrats have the numbers and all the MPs where voted in at the last election

How can they say they are not the elected government

2)

Thaskin was never voted in as Prime Minister by the people

His party was voted in and he was chosen by his party

At any time his party could remove him and put in another Prime Minister...

Hi tezzainoz,

....2. The political system in Thailand is that MPs vote a premier as a head of the state. Since MPs are elected by the people to represent their voices, so whoever MP voted as prime minister can translate to 'voted by the people'. (election frauds ignored here)

I have yet to see a party to remove its head and replace with another, in Thailand.

This action can send a very bad signal to the public.....

With respect GChin we have seen this once.

When Samak could have returned after his forced resignation,

but Thaksin forced the head of his party out.

And replaced him with Somchai of all people.

And yes you are 100% right, it sent a very bad signal,

and both Chalerm and particularly Newin certainly saw it big time.

Edited March 12, 2010 by animatic

[unclejunta]

Let's all pray Thaksin will be saved this time round. Saving Thaksin means saving Thailand from the elites who seized power

[animatic]

Let's all pray Thaksin will be saved this time round. Saving Thaksin means saving Thailand from the elites who seized power

Useless agitprop.

What bother it's a lost cause.

No one but true believes buys this line anymore.

[unclejunta]

Let's all pray Thaksin will be saved this time round. Saving Thaksin means saving Thailand from the elites who seized power

Useless agitprop.

What bother it's a lost cause.

No one but true believes buys this line anymore.

Let's all pray that the RED revolution succeeds tomorrow then....for the good of all Thai people. It's time for a change

[anotherpeter]

Let's all pray Thaksin will be saved this time round. Saving Thaksin means saving Thailand from the elites who seized power

Useless agitprop.

What bother it's a lost cause.

No one but true believes buys this line anymore.

Let's all pray that the RED revolution succeeds tomorrow then....for the good of all Thai people. It's time for a change

There have been changes every year for the last 5 years. Why is it time for change now?

What is the current government doing so wrong that it needs to change?

[Ricardo]

Let's all pray Thaksin will be saved this time round. Saving Thaksin means saving Thailand from the elites who seized power

But who will save Thaksin from himself ?

Let's all pray that the RED revolution succeeds tomorrow then....for the good of all Thai people. It's time for a change

"RED revolution", but isn't it supposed to be a peaceful protest, or have the orders changed ?