The 2010 Formula One Season

[rixalex]

That's 2 bloody races I've missed. I spent the w/end in hospital, with some sort of virus. I get home yesterday with some joker asking if I was ready for a beer. Wackysleet AKA David, hopefully back on the mend now, but a damned long way from wanting a beer.

Looks like someone will have to pick up the slack for all the beer you aren't drinking at the moment Mosha - if no one else is willing i'm prepared to reluctantly volunteer myself - a good cause and all.

Seriously though, good to have you back and hope your recovery is swift and painless.

[Mosha]

Damon gets hate mail over Schumi decisicion. http://msn.planetf1.com/news/18227/6160612...n-by-hate-mails

[wackysleet]

Damon gets hate mail over Schumi decisicion. http://msn.planetf1.com/news/18227/6160612...n-by-hate-mails

Was that you F1 sending my mate hate mail????

[FlatOut]

That's 2 bloody races I've missed. I spent the w/end in hospital, with some sort of virus. I get home yesterday with some joker asking if I was ready for a beer. Wackysleet AKA David, hopefully back on the mend now, but a damned long way from wanting a beer.

Haha, that made me chuckle. Hair of the dog doesn't really work for viruses I've found a good blog which might help with the ones you've missed http://formula1blog.co.uk/

For what it's worth, I thought Schumi should have been allowed 6th spot. All of the cars out of the last corner went at race pace (not s/c pace) so what if Alonso had a problem, would the rest of the pack just have to wait until he limped over the line...I think not! If the Catalunyan GP finished under the safety car, with such a fast last corner and long straight, it would have been a disappointing end wacthing them pass the finish line at 50mph.

My 2 cents

[F1fanatic]

Damon gets hate mail over Schumi decisicion. http://msn.planetf1.com/news/18227/6160612...n-by-hate-mails

Was that you F1 sending my mate hate mail????

Not me. I honestly don't care that much - just to see Schumi/Brawn back to their quick-witted ways was all I needed to make me pretty happy.

I still think the stewards are wrong (the rules and regs were badly written and ambiguous), and the fact that they will be discussing it (and I haven't the slightest doubt, changing them) at their next meeting supports my view.

The worst possible outcome for Schumi (IMO) should have been a reversal back to the original positions.

Never mind though.

I have to wonder though, assuming the FIA change the rules - why did Mercedes drop the appeal? Its possible they may just make the intention clear to the teams, but 'intentions' have never meant a dam_n to the law!

Anyway, nice to see you back Mosha.

[Mosha]

Alonso was told not to try to take Hamilton due to the rules. Schumi claims he caught Alonso napping, well he would have been taking it easy after those instructions.

[wackysleet]

Not me. I honestly don't care that much - just to see Schumi/Brawn back to their quick-witted ways was all I needed to make me pretty happy.

I still think the stewards are wrong (the rules and regs were badly written and ambiguous), and the fact that they will be discussing it (and I haven't the slightest doubt, changing them) at their next meeting supports my view.

The worst possible outcome for Schumi (IMO) should have been a reversal back to the original positions.

Never mind though.

I have to wonder though, assuming the FIA change the rules - why did Mercedes drop the appeal? Its possible they may just make the intention clear to the teams, but 'intentions' have never meant a dam_n to the law!

Anyway, nice to see you back Mosha.

It has just been reported that the FIA are not going to look or amend the rules concerning the withdrawal of the safety car, as in the latest Pitpass news letter .

[ignis]

It has just been reported that the FIA are not going to look or amend the rules concerning the withdrawal of the safety car, as in the latest Pitpass news letter .

Odd other sites state:

“Adjustments to the regulations are necessary to clarify the procedure that cars must meet when the last lap is controlled by the Safety Car whilst also ensuring that the signaling for teams and drivers is made more clear.

“These adjustments will help to avoid the problem which occurred during the Monaco Grand Prix from happening in the future.

“The Formula One Commission, upon a proposal of the F1 Sporting Working Group will submit an amendment to the Sporting Regulations to address this issue. These amendments will be considered by the World Motor Sport Council at its next meeting in Geneva on June 23."

Edited May 21, 2010 by ignis

[rixalex]

Having read close to 30 pages (!) on PlanetF1 with forumers quoting all the relevant rules and arguing about what they implied, I'm ready for bed - sorry, finally ready to come to a decision on whether the move was illegal.

At the time, I just laughed - typical Schumi, make the smallest mistake and you'll regret it.....

After all the quoted rules I think the decision will be overturned by the FIA.

Mercedes have now recognised the futility of contesting this and have dropped their appeal.

Formula 1's governing body has admitted there was a "lack of clarity" in the safety car rule under which Michael Schumacher was penalised at Monaco.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport...one/8694284.stm

I think what the FIA are now admitting goes to show what i have been saying all along - whilst what the rules state might be clear, what transpired on the race track in Monaco was far from it. It was down-right confusing and this confusion led to misunderstanding.

Appealing against the penalty should not have been futile. They had quite reasonable grounds to do so.

[wackysleet]

Formula 1's governing body has admitted there was a "lack of clarity" in the safety car rule under which Michael Schumacher was penalised at Monaco.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport...one/8694284.stm

I think what the FIA are now admitting goes to show what i have been saying all along - whilst what the rules state might be clear, what transpired on the race track in Monaco was far from it. It was down-right confusing and this confusion led to misunderstanding.

Appealing against the penalty should not have been futile. They had quite reasonable grounds to do so.

Having just read that article, I have to say that the rule seemed perfectly clear with regard to the S.C. entering the pit lane on the last lap and cars remaining in their running positions, my confusion is about the line that has been put down and what relevance it actually has on the S.Cs position.

I saw no mention of any alteration to the rule other than an ADJUSTMENT to the wording, but that is just my interpretation of the article

[rixalex]

Formula 1's governing body has admitted there was a "lack of clarity" in the safety car rule under which Michael Schumacher was penalised at Monaco.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport...one/8694284.stm

I think what the FIA are now admitting goes to show what i have been saying all along - whilst what the rules state might be clear, what transpired on the race track in Monaco was far from it. It was down-right confusing and this confusion led to misunderstanding.

Appealing against the penalty should not have been futile. They had quite reasonable grounds to do so.

Having just read that article, I have to say that the rule seemed perfectly clear with regard to the S.C. entering the pit lane on the last lap and cars remaining in their running positions, my confusion is about the line that has been put down and what relevance it actually has on the S.Cs position.

I saw no mention of any alteration to the rule other than an ADJUSTMENT to the wording, but that is just my interpretation of the article

If you read the rule in isolation it is clear. In practice it was not.

[b19bry]

Formula 1's governing body has admitted there was a "lack of clarity" in the safety car rule under which Michael Schumacher was penalised at Monaco.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport...one/8694284.stm

I think what the FIA are now admitting goes to show what i have been saying all along - whilst what the rules state might be clear, what transpired on the race track in Monaco was far from it. It was down-right confusing and this confusion led to misunderstanding.

Appealing against the penalty should not have been futile. They had quite reasonable grounds to do so.

I don't disagree that with the Green Flag waving and the introduction of a safety care line ahead of the Start/Finish line some confusion was created at Monaco, however 40.13 is quite clear and however much BS Mercedes threw into the mix they were never going to get the decision overturned, they contravened 40.13.

As much as Schumi claimed he was directed to race by his team, Alonso was counterclaiming he was told not to by his team as per 40.13 and he has the rulebook to back him up !

I feel it's the correct decision, why race 77 laps........effectively void that as a contest by introducing the SC and then ultimately have the race decided over a sprint past one corner ?

That the FIA are going to tighten up the regs over finishing under a safety car is nonetheless appropriate though I'm sure 40.13 will stand.

I guess Schumi thought if he can't win any races he'd use his old trick of cheating to get back into the limelight .......(no flames pls just joking F1)

[b19bry]

Having just read that article, I have to say that the rule seemed perfectly clear with regard to the S.C. entering the pit lane on the last lap and cars remaining in their running positions, my confusion is about the line that has been put down and what relevance it actually has on the S.Cs position.

I saw no mention of any alteration to the rule other than an ADJUSTMENT to the wording, but that is just my interpretation of the article

Absolutely Wacky, why they had to introduce a SC line and use that as the point where overtaking may start rather than use the Start/Finish line as previously I don't understand. If they hadn't made that change it wouldn't matter which flags had been waved.

[rixalex]

As much as Schumi claimed he was directed to race by his team, Alonso was counterclaiming he was told not to by his team as per 40.13 and he has the rulebook to back him up !

He has the rulebook to back himself up, and of course he has a mistake to try and justify.

I feel it's the correct decision, why race 77 laps........effectively void that as a contest by introducing the SC and then ultimately have the race decided over a sprint past one corner ?

The affects of bringing out the SC are unfair at any stage in the race, be it the first lap or the last. Either we accept that fact or we look for an alternative.

I don't think it makes much sense to say we accept the unfairness unless it happens to be the last lap - in that case we don't accept it.

[b19bry]

He has the rulebook to back himself up, and of course he has a mistake to try and justify.

Unfortunately for some 40.13 mean's he doesn't really need to try.......fait accompli !

The affects of bringing out the SC are unfair at any stage in the race, be it the first lap or the last. Either we accept that fact or we look for an alternative.

I don't think it makes much sense to say we accept the unfairness unless it happens to be the last lap - in that case we don't accept it.

Well that opens up a whole new can of worms, probably best not to go there. However, just to say that ever since SC's were introduced to F1 it has always been the case that if an SC car situation arose within the last few laps of an F1 race (at least prior to the last Monaco race), cars were always obliged to hold station across the line. Whatever other changes were made 40.13 still regulates this to happen.

[rixalex]

The affects of bringing out the SC are unfair at any stage in the race, be it the first lap or the last. Either we accept that fact or we look for an alternative.

I don't think it makes much sense to say we accept the unfairness unless it happens to be the last lap - in that case we don't accept it.

Well that opens up a whole new can of worms, probably best not to go there. However, just to say that ever since SC's were introduced to F1 it has always been the case that if an SC car situation arose within the last few laps of an F1 race (at least prior to the last Monaco race), cars were always obliged to hold station across the line. Whatever other changes were made 40.13 still regulates this to happen.

You seem once again to be confused about what i am contesting. I am not contesting what the current rules state (and i never have despite your repeated trotting out of rule 40.13), i am contesting that the current rules make complete sense: ie it's not acceptable to pass after the SC comes in on the last few laps on the grounds of it being unfair, even in the case that two drivers were running bumper to bumper with an over-taking move likely up until the SC's appearance, and yet if the SC comes out any time before that and a driver has a 30 or 40 second lead reduced to nothing, it's perfectly ok for that driver to lose his place if passed.

In my opinion we either accept the possible unfairness of having the SC appear at any time during the race, or we don't accept it and look for another method of dealing with these incidents.

[b19bry]

You seem once again to be confused about what i am contesting. I am not contesting what the current rules state (and i never have despite your repeated trotting out of rule 40.13), i am contesting that the current rules make complete sense: ie it's not acceptable to pass after the SC comes in on the last few laps on the grounds of it being unfair,

Rixalex, no need to adopt that superior tone, I was never and am not in the slightest confused thanks.

We are not talking about the SC coming in on the last few laps, we are talking about just prior to the last corner of the last lap which is what 40.13 mandates. I keep trotting 40.13 out because it's the rule applicable here and this was always the case, the only change this year was the introduction of a new SC line which in my view caused the Monaco confusion.

In my opinion we either accept the possible unfairness of having the SC appear at any time during the race, or we don't accept it and look for another method of dealing with these incidents.

I'd like to see the back of them personally, but as I said that is another can of worms.

[rixalex]

You seem once again to be confused about what i am contesting. I am not contesting what the current rules state (and i never have despite your repeated trotting out of rule 40.13), i am contesting that the current rules make complete sense: ie it's not acceptable to pass after the SC comes in on the last few laps on the grounds of it being unfair,

Rixalex, no need to adopt that superior tone, I was never and am not in the slightest confused thanks.

We are not talking about the SC coming in on the last few laps, we are talking about just prior to the last corner of the last lap which is what 40.13 mandates. I keep trotting 40.13 out because it's the rule applicable here and this was always the case, the only change this year was the introduction of a new SC line which in my view caused the Monaco confusion.

I apologise if i came across as having a superior tone. My feeling is not one of superiority, but one of weariness because every time i make my point about the rules for one not being fair or consistent, and for two being confusingly applied, you keep throwing in my face rule 40.13 as that somehow disproves what i am saying. It does not.

[b19bry]

I apologise if i came across as having a superior tone. My feeling is not one of superiority, but one of weariness

I would accept the apology but for the sting in the tail which I'm afraid still indicates a superior tone !

every time i make my point about the rules for one not being fair or consistent, and for two being confusingly applied, you keep throwing in my face rule 40.13 as that somehow disproves what i am saying. It does not.

I just disagree about the rules not being fair or consistent but your correct in Monaco there was some confusion of application.

[rixalex]

I apologise if i came across as having a superior tone. My feeling is not one of superiority, but one of weariness

I would accept the apology but for the sting in the tail which I'm afraid still indicates a superior tone !

I think you are being too sensitive - either that or reading too much into what i am typing. I'm not being superior i'm just making my point - no different from what you are doing.

[b19bry]

I apologise if i came across as having a superior tone. My feeling is not one of superiority, but one of weariness

I would accept the apology but for the sting in the tail which I'm afraid still indicates a superior tone !

I think you are being too sensitive - either that or reading too much into what i am typing. I'm not being superior i'm just making my point - no different from what you are doing.

OK fair enough, on a different subject I see Red Bull have found a 'fault' with the chassis as used by Vettel in the last two races. I'm wondering whether that affected his performance, I guess we'll find out in Turkey as he's getting a new one !

[rixalex]

OK fair enough, on a different subject I see Red Bull have found a 'fault' with the chassis as used by Vettel in the last two races. I'm wondering whether that affected his performance, I guess we'll find out in Turkey as he's getting a new one !

I read that too. I take it change of chassis incurs no penalty?

[b19bry]

OK fair enough, on a different subject I see Red Bull have found a 'fault' with the chassis as used by Vettel in the last two races. I'm wondering whether that affected his performance, I guess we'll find out in Turkey as he's getting a new one !

I read that too. I take it change of chassis incurs no penalty?

I don't think so, Virgin plan to, or are already doing the same re: their fuel tank issue.

[wackysleet]

A new purpose built track in Austin. Texas for the start of the 2012 season to host the U.S. Grand Prix in 2012, Bernie has signed a 10yr deal apparently.

[Mosha]

I'm not sure, but didn't Virgin seek permision before carrying out those changes? Meanwhile, Massa is reported to be in contract talks with several teams.

Edited May 25, 2010 by Mosha

[b19bry]

Meanwhile, Massa is reported to be in contract talks with several teams.

Probably a wise move, the pressure is surely on him this coming weekend ?

[F1fanatic]

It seems a bit unfair to me.

Perhaps I remember incorrectly, but wasn't Massa leading the WDC recently with Alonso some way behind?

[b19bry]

It seems a bit unfair to me.

Perhaps I remember incorrectly, but wasn't Massa leading the WDC recently with Alonso some way behind?

Massa led the WDC by 2 points after Malaysia from Vettel and Alonso who'd failed to finish when his engine let go !

For the rest of the year he's been behind and pretty much outclassed and outpaced by Alonso. However seems like he might be staying put now according to Stefano Domenicali ?

[rixalex]

It seems a bit unfair to me.

Perhaps I remember incorrectly, but wasn't Massa leading the WDC recently with Alonso some way behind?

Massa led the WDC by 2 points after Malaysia from Vettel and Alonso who'd failed to finish when his engine let go !

For the rest of the year he's been behind and pretty much outclassed and outpaced by Alonso. However seems like he might be staying put now according to Stefano Domenicali ?

Indeed. Alonso is quickly putting his stamp on the team and Massa will i think fall into his shadow further as the season progresses. Unless Massa is happy to be a number two once again, he should move on. His chance at Ferrari has come and gone.

[F1fanatic]

It seems a bit unfair to me.

Perhaps I remember incorrectly, but wasn't Massa leading the WDC recently with Alonso some way behind?

Massa led the WDC by 2 points after Malaysia from Vettel and Alonso who'd failed to finish when his engine let go !

For the rest of the year he's been behind and pretty much outclassed and outpaced by Alonso. However seems like he might be staying put now according to Stefano Domenicali ?

Indeed. Alonso is quickly putting his stamp on the team and Massa will i think fall into his shadow further as the season progresses. Unless Massa is happy to be a number two once again, he should move on. His chance at Ferrari has come and gone.

I'm not convinced. Whilst I don't rate Massa as a truly first class F1 driver (and - I hate to admit this, I think Alonso is better/more consistent), IMO he's a v good driver.

He was leaving KR in the dust until his accident last year. Kimi fans believe that Kimi was brilliant after Massa's accident (unlike at the beginning of the season....). My own view is that it was taking them both time to get used to that awful car, but Massa was getting to grips more quickly and would have continued to out-perform Kimi given the chance. Obviously, we'll never know.

If (as I think) he's a top mid-range driver - why would Ferrari want to get rid of him? Its obvious that Alonso throws his toys out of the pram pretty quickly - he may have learned a lesson at McLaren, but he still passed Massa in the pit lane recently! NOT the move of a team driver . If he dominates Massa this year, Ferrari need a top-mid range driver as his team-mate.

That's just my view though!