The 2010 Formula One Season

[rixalex]

One thing seems to be obvious: The safety car rules need to be revised. This is the second time that we have a controversy over the safety car and how the drivers have to behave. Obviously the rules are not clear.

In Monaco, it appears that what MS did, actually was correct (overtaking FA), but he was penalized anyway and lost places and points. Now it was also clear (at least to the marshals) that what LH did was not correct, but he suffered no consequence, despite the drive-through penalty.

Bottom line: When you do something, which is correct, you get punished and when you break the rule you suffer no consequences. That's not fair.

Please FIA, make a total revision of the safety car regulations and make them simple and clear. Some ideas:

- Wait to deploy the SC on track until the leading car approaches the start/finish line and put the SC in front of it. Until then, yellow flag the whole track so that there is no overtaking.

- Red light at pit exit only until SC is out on track.

- After SC comes in, no overtaking until start/finish line (I think this has now been implemented)

- Penalties should tend to restore the "quo ante" situation. A 5 sec penalty after the race is ridiculous.

- And most important: Don't deploy the SC for every little fender-bender.

Some good points there.

As far though as breaking the rules, getting punished and suffering no consequences in concerned, how exactly can you possibly guarantee the same degree of punishment with regards drive through penalties? You can't. It all depends where the cars are on the track, and this is going to be different in every race. Would it have made Alonso happy had they said, "ok Lewis, we want you to come in now and park up until we see at least five or six cars go by".

Stop go or drive through penalties only ever guarantee the punishment of slowing a car down by however long it takes to carry out the punishment, they never have and never will guarantee that a driver will lose a set number of positions. That's what Alonso and his fans were demanding, but that's not the way the punishment works.

[Miiyai46]

One thing seems to be obvious: The safety car rules need to be revised. This is the second time that we have a controversy over the safety car and how the drivers have to behave. Obviously the rules are not clear.

In Monaco, it appears that what MS did, actually was correct (overtaking FA), but he was penalized anyway and lost places and points. Now it was also clear (at least to the marshals) that what LH did was not correct, but he suffered no consequence, despite the drive-through penalty.

Bottom line: When you do something, which is correct, you get punished and when you break the rule you suffer no consequences. That's not fair.

Please FIA, make a total revision of the safety car regulations and make them simple and clear. Some ideas:

- Wait to deploy the SC on track until the leading car approaches the start/finish line and put the SC in front of it. Until then, yellow flag the whole track so that there is no overtaking.

- Red light at pit exit only until SC is out on track.

- After SC comes in, no overtaking until start/finish line (I think this has now been implemented)

- Penalties should tend to restore the "quo ante" situation. A 5 sec penalty after the race is ridiculous.

- And most important: Don't deploy the SC for every little fender-bender.

Some good points there.

As far though as breaking the rules, getting punished and suffering no consequences in concerned, how exactly can you possibly guarantee the same degree of punishment with regards drive through penalties? You can't. It all depends where the cars are on the track, and this is going to be different in every race. Would it have made Alonso happy had they said, "ok Lewis, we want you to come in now and park up until we see at least five or six cars go by".

Stop go or drive through penalties only ever guarantee the punishment of slowing a car down by however long it takes to carry out the punishment, they never have and never will guarantee that a driver will lose a set number of positions. That's what Alonso and his fans were demanding, but that's not the way the punishment works.

Ferrari's complain should go towards the FIA slow reaction rather than Hamilton's track position. He got punished for his mistake but it was obviously too late as the punishment got no consequences.

The 5 seconds punishment for all other drivers at the end of the race is even more ridiculous as also in this case the consequences were none.

The FIA must react quickly. Make all the regulations as simple and clear as possible altough it seems difficult as the F1 teams are always trying to cheat the rules in a smart way.

[Mosha]

While we are on the subject of rules. What do you think of next years rule changes. OK no F duct that's simple enough to understand. However a moveable wing. (Something else to work loose, very clever FIA) Can only be employed on certain parts of the circuit, and only when within 1 second of the car in front. (Brilliant, give the stewards something to do in the race rather than concentrate on the races safety aspect)

What they should do is throw out the single tyre supplier crap, and lets give the teams a choice. Bernie's determined to turn the event into another A1GP

[rixalex]

Ferrari's complain should go towards the FIA slow reaction rather than Hamilton's track position. He got punished for his mistake but it was obviously too late as the punishment got no consequences.

I agree that punishment should be given quickly, but don't forget that whether it is given slowly or quickly it doesn't guarantee that the consequences of the punishment will be either more severe or less. For example, by delaying the punishment as they did there could have been another safety car in the meantime, that would have meant Hamilton coming back out right at the back of the pack. Drive through penalities all come down to luck. In this case Hamilton was lucky. Just the way it goes. Had he been unlucky i wonder whether Ferrari would have been complaining that it was too severe on him?

[Mosha]

In Alonso's exchange with his pit crew re Lewis. Only one answer would have stopped Alonso spitting the dummy. "You are in front of Hamilton." I bet his nightmares are always about Lewis Hamilton and the McLaren team.

[Miiyai46]

In Alonso's exchange with his pit crew re Lewis. Only one answer would have stopped Alonso spitting the dummy. "You are in front of Hamilton." I bet his nightmares are always about Lewis Hamilton and the McLaren team.

Yes, Hamilton is Alonso's real nightmare and everybody knows that even in Alonso's home country where a newspaper does show this animated cartoons where Alonso and Hamilton are always annoying each other.

http://www.marca.com/tv/?tm=MTOONS

One thing is very clear. Hamilton keeps improving race by race while Alonso is getting worse ( he is not fully concentrated )

[dominique355]

While we are on the subject of rules. What do you think of next years rule changes. OK no F duct that's simple enough to understand. However a moveable wing. (Something else to work loose, very clever FIA) Can only be employed on certain parts of the circuit, and only when within 1 second of the car in front. (Brilliant, give the stewards something to do in the race rather than concentrate on the races safety aspect)

What they should do is throw out the single tyre supplier crap, and lets give the teams a choice. Bernie's determined to turn the event into another A1GP

Overtaking, or more to the point, lack of overtaking, is still a major concern and might just kill Formula 1, or at least reduce interest. So FIA had asked a special task group to study the problems and they came up with some good ideas. Unfortunately FIA did not follow them. Even worse, they declared the double diffusor legal, which was totally against the letter and the spirit of the new regulations of 2009. The adjustable front wing had no effect and KERS is too expensive. Now they came up with the adjustable rear wing, accompanied by a set of highly complicated rules, about where and when you may use that.

In my opinion, that's all non-sense. If overtaking should be made easier, I would suggest the following:

- very small front and rear wings

- get rid of the flat bottom and allow ground effect cars, less prone to loose downforce in dirty air behind another car.

About tires:

I would have liked Michelin to come back, together with new rules about the rim size, as suggested by Michelin. The actual rules with a max diameter of 13" rim is ridiculous and reflects technology of 1970. But FIA did not want to risk something new, so they gave Pirelli the contract. Too bad, another opportunity missed. I don't know if this unfortunate rule that both mixtures must be used is maintained. INMH is is rubbish.

[dominique355]

One thing seems to be obvious: The safety car rules need to be revised. This is the second time that we have a controversy over the safety car and how the drivers have to behave. Obviously the rules are not clear.

In Monaco, it appears that what MS did, actually was correct (overtaking FA), but he was penalized anyway and lost places and points. Now it was also clear (at least to the marshals) that what LH did was not correct, but he suffered no consequence, despite the drive-through penalty.

Bottom line: When you do something, which is correct, you get punished and when you break the rule you suffer no consequences. That's not fair.

Please FIA, make a total revision of the safety car regulations and make them simple and clear. Some ideas:

- Wait to deploy the SC on track until the leading car approaches the start/finish line and put the SC in front of it. Until then, yellow flag the whole track so that there is no overtaking.

- Red light at pit exit only until SC is out on track.

- After SC comes in, no overtaking until start/finish line (I think this has now been implemented)

- Penalties should tend to restore the "quo ante" situation. A 5 sec penalty after the race is ridiculous.

- And most important: Don't deploy the SC for every little fender-bender.

Some good points there.

As far though as breaking the rules, getting punished and suffering no consequences in concerned, how exactly can you possibly guarantee the same degree of punishment with regards drive through penalties? You can't. It all depends where the cars are on the track, and this is going to be different in every race. Would it have made Alonso happy had they said, "ok Lewis, we want you to come in now and park up until we see at least five or six cars go by".

Stop go or drive through penalties only ever guarantee the punishment of slowing a car down by however long it takes to carry out the punishment, they never have and never will guarantee that a driver will lose a set number of positions. That's what Alonso and his fans were demanding, but that's not the way the punishment works.

I agree with you that it is very difficult to makes rules and punishments, which guarantee a maximum of fairness.

So, let's make simple and clear rules in the first place.

Then, a punishment for breaking the rules is not just for re-establishing the situation as it was before the rules were broken, but punishment should also be a deterrent, which means that they should be strong enough that nobody would gamble on the punishment, like we just saw in Valencia. The drivers and teams should know that breaking the rules will cost them any chance of points. Then they will most likely refrain from breaking them. But that of course supposes that the rules are simple and easy to understand.

[Mosha]

Alex Yoong on ESPN said something which on reflection might not be that daft. Do away with the wings altogether. I can just about remember the days before wings. Watching the racing with my old man. The races those days always seemed to be exciting. There again when you was a kid, summers were always great and you had the sledge out every day in winter. We probably didn't, but it seemed that way.

[TBWG]

Hi

I'd like to suggest a 'tongue in cheek' additional change for next year should all the above rule changes be adopted.

That is all cars should be 2 seater's with the addition of a legal eagle in each car who can advise on best practice during the race within the rules! Really all I see is that trying to micro manage every scenario by a myriad of rules is making driving skills secondary to knowledge of the rulebook.

On a more serious note why do I find that I have lost interest in who is likely to win the race or be world champion and seem to more interested in seeing Ferrari and Alonso in particular shoot themselves in the foot!

No need to worry about Massa he is quite capable self destructing without any assistance.

TBWG

[Mosha]

:lol:

[Mosha]

:lol:

[Mosha]

Sorry for double post

[TBWG]

A large dose of humble pie from sweet F.A.

Alonso apologises for FIA criticism

By Jonathan Noble Tuesday, June 29th 2010, 17:56 GMT

Fernando Alonso Fernando Alonso has apologised for over-reacting to the safety car controversy at last weekend's European Grand Prix - and said he never intended to fuel suspicions that the FIA had 'manipulated' the race.

The Spaniard was furious after the race in Valencia - suggesting that the FIA had favoured Lewis Hamilton by taking too long to hand him a punishment for overtaking the safety car early in the event.

Those delays meant Hamilton was able to take a drive-through penalty without losing position.

Two days on, Alonso has said he is much calmer about the situation - and clarified that his remarks were fueled by frustration that he had lost positions by respecting the rules, while Hamilton had effectively benefited from breaking the regulations.

"Obviously, in the clear light of day, I am much calmer than I was in the moments immediately following the race," said Alonso in his diary column on the official Ferrari website.

"At the time, I reacted emotionally and in that situation, it is all too easy to adopt a tone and say things that can be interpreted wrongly, giving rise to suspicions, something which I had no intention of doing.

“Sure, I understand that the stewards have a difficult job to do and they have to take decisions that are not easy. What I meant was that those drivers who, like us, respected the regulations, unfortunately, in this situation, suffered much more than those who broke them, even though they were given a penalty.

“And I am not referring to any of the drivers in particular: it’s a general matter and I think we should talk about it together in a calm way, to ensure that things like this do not happen again."

There had been speculation that the FIA could punish Alonso and his Ferrari team for some of their outspoken remarks after Spain, but the governing body gave no indication it intended to react. Alonso's apologetic comments will, however, help serve to draw a line under the matter.

The FIA is aware, however, that the events of Sunday have highlighted several potential problems with the current safety car regulations, and has called an extraordinary meeting of thinktank, the Sporting Working Group, to go through the issues next week ahead of the British Grand Prix.

Alonso welcomed that move and hoped that any matters up in the air after Valencia can be cleared up so there is no repeat controversy in the future.

“I was pleased to hear that the FIA has reacted promptly, calling an extraordinary meeting of the Sporting Working Group and I am confident, certain even, that all the points up for discussion will be cleared up in a comprehensive fashion.”

Despite losing valuable points in Valencia through the bad timing of the safety car, Alonso remains upbeat about his title prospects.

“Even if the Valencia result was not what we wanted, it has not done irreparable damage,” he said. “It’s true that the gap to the leader has now jumped to 29 points, but we have not even reached the halfway point of the season. We trail by just over one win, so the situation is still very open.

“The updates we brought to Spain saw us make a step forward and get closer to the front runners. I am satisfied with that, but also aware that we must continue to push on with the development of the F10, because we need to have a car capable of fighting for pole and to give us the edge over our rivals as soon as possible.

“If we are now 29 points off the championship leader, it means that in the next ten races, we have to score at least 30 more than whoever is in the lead at any one time

TBWG

[TBWG]

Hi

Shock latest.........

Kamui has a part time job!

As part of the Burger King sponsorship deal for the Sauber Team, both Kamui & Pedro had to work in the local Burger King outlet in Valencia.

Hey Kamui, I'll have two flame grilled Whoppa's and heavy on the onions!

see ............... http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=41285

The mind boggles as to what Durex would want the drivers to do in the old Durex sponsored Surtees days!

TBWG

[soihok]

Has anyone been to the Singapore Grand Prix? Or is anyone going this year? Would be interested to hear experiences as I am thinking of going, Cheers

Hello. I live in Singapore and went to the practice of the 2008 F1.

I have been promised a complimentry weekend pass for this years practice and race from friend/ business colleague which I am looking forward to....

On the positive side of things you will not have to travel far from anything as the race is bang in the middle of the city.

The atmosphere is great, buzzing, the sight and sound of the cars speeding through the city at night is an experience.

Make sure you have sight of a big screen where you choose to sit, as always for any large motor racing do, otherwise the race will become a bit confusing.

I was sitting at turn 2, and will be this year, its at the end of the start/finish straight.

The prices of hotel rooms at this time sky rocket though, so I would suggest that you take into account that the trip will be exspensive. A weekend pass to sit at turn 2 is SG$1288 and you can only buy the weekend pass, as far as I know.

Check out all the prices available. There are plenty of budget type hotels to choose from.

Lucky for me it will be free......so I,ll get the beers in.

http://www.singaporegp.sg/ticket/corporate_ticket.php

[wackysleet]

Hi

Shock latest.........

Kamui has a part time job!

As part of the Burger King sponsorship deal for the Sauber Team, both Kamui & Pedro had to work in the local Burger King outlet in Valencia.

Hey Kamui, I'll have two flame grilled Whoppa's and heavy on the onions!

see ............... http://www.pitpass.c...es_art_id=41285

The mind boggles as to what Durex would want the drivers to do in the old Durex sponsored Surtees days!

TBWG

TBWG. You might be hard pressed to get any kind of an upright answer to that question.

[Mosha]

Some drug companies are missing an opportunity with the HRT team. Meanwhile back on topic almost. Pfizer or Glaxo should sponsor a team with Durex. Or the Pfizer or Glaxo could sponsor Virgin Racing. Don't virgin make a condom they call mates? Advertising slogan (Insert product) keeps your mates going.

[TBWG]

TBWG. You might be hard pressed to get any kind of an upright answer to that question.

Hey Wackysleet

Next time all those F1 engineers are talking about a stiff chassis and stressed members, well perhaps I will see it in a different light!

TBWG

[Donnyboy]

Some drug companies are missing an opportunity with the HRT team. Meanwhile back on topic almost. Pfizer or Glaxo should sponsor a team with Durex. Or the Pfizer or Glaxo could sponsor Virgin Racing. Don't virgin make a condom they call mates? Advertising slogan (Insert product) keeps your mates going.

how about Viagra coming to the fore and sponsoring a team, slogan could read

Go Hard or Go Home!

[TBWG]

Hi

Been to Goodwood Festival of Speed today ~~~ Thought you might like to see a picture of scenery!

TBWG

[Donnyboy]

Hi

Been to Goodwood Festival of Speed today ~~~ Thought you might like to see a picture of scenery!

TBWG

hhmm not up to thai standards im afraid

thx for yr efforts thou

[rixalex]

Hi

Been to Goodwood Festival of Speed today ~~~ Thought you might like to see a picture of scenery!

TBWG

hhmm not up to thai standards im afraid

thx for yr efforts thou

It's not doing it for me either.

Edited July 4, 2010 by rixalex

[TBWG]

Hi

Been to Goodwood Festival of Speed today ~~~ Thought you might like to see a picture of scenery!

TBWG

hhmm not up to thai standards im afraid

thx for yr efforts thou

It's not doing it for me either.

Hi Guys I'm doing my best ~~ What about these then?

Pity Thailand doesn't have a GP!

TBWG

[rixalex]

Hi Guys I'm doing my best ~~ What about these then?

The smile on your face i'm sure belies all the hard work that must go into seeking out these pretty girls. Keep it up mate.

[Donnyboy]

Hi

Been to Goodwood Festival of Speed today ~~~ Thought you might like to see a picture of scenery!

TBWG

hhmm not up to thai standards im afraid

thx for yr efforts thou

It's not doing it for me either.

yr too hard to please

TBWG, 2nd set is much better, its good to know there are some distractions at the GP should the racing become boring

[Mosha]

You try to take a shot of a poster, and some silly sod jumps in front of what you want to photograph. Bloody wannabe models.

[Miiyai46]

This weekend ( British GP ) should be very interesting. Although they have not win a race for a long time, I believe the Ferrari's are pretty strong ( in Valencia Alonso had a good lap time while he was in P3 ), and with McLaren ( exhaust system ) as well as RB ( F Conduct ) introducing their major upgrades here, we are heading to a nice racing weekend.

Hamilton and Alonso have both confirmed that they have texted each other since the last race in Valencia to clear the air and they are cool now. Let' see for how long this "cool" situation will last.

[PattayaParent]

In Valencia....just a simple question. Does it take 12 laps ( 12 x 1.40 = approx 16 minutes ) to realize that Hamilton did overtake the safety car??? Oh, what a coincidence in that amount of time he opened a gap of over 15 sec. when the drive through is only 13 secs.

Moreover, Alonso should stop talking and thinking about other drivers and start to drive properly.

Cheers

I think at the time the FIA were understandably more concerned with the "Red Bull Gives You Wings" incident of Webber than a marginal 'overtaking' incident.

[Mosha]

This weekend ( British GP ) should be very interesting. Although they have not win a race for a long time, I believe the Ferrari's are pretty strong ( in Valencia Alonso had a good lap time while he was in P3 ), and with McLaren ( exhaust system ) as well as RB ( F Conduct ) introducing their major upgrades here, we are heading to a nice racing weekend.

Hamilton and Alonso have both confirmed that they have texted each other since the last race in Valencia to clear the air and they are cool now. Let' see for how long this "cool" situation will last.

About another 4 or 5 days is my guess.