The 2010 Formula One Season

[carmine]

schumis time is over-he should realise this an go home to his wife and children.

what he did was absolutely dangerous,

i want to hear him shoutimg, if another driver would have done this to him.

he still thinks, he is the best of all, but he isnt by far.

Please read my last post.

But I do agree with you - Reubens was a far better F1 driver than MS, if it wasn't for team orders he would have won all those WDC's. No idea at all why EVERYONE (other than RB) thought otherwise.

Again too, of course he "isn't by far" the "best of all" - he's a mediocre driver that all the teams wanted 'cos they were too stupid to realise how mediocre he was.

It was the car that made MS World Champion so many times and the teams nous about the rules and strategy.

So long as he was out front he was easily capable of passing back markers that were getting flagged to allow him to pass, but when he had to actually race another driver he would resort to running them off the road, or his infamous double maneouvre blocking tactics.

Some of thats a bit harsh, but, theres a lot of truth in what you say. For one, his car did'nt have a mechanical fault for over forty races! Given total team priority with the fastest car of the day. i remember Hakkinen winning two world titles whilst racing him in a team with no team orders. Forcing Damon Hill off and wining a world championship by default. The move on Villeneuve was an afront to sport and not to be banned for a season was a disgrace on the part of the FIA.

All said, he was outstanding in the wet which is the mark of the best drivers, but a very flawed genius. As for the seven world titles...how many would the likes of Ayrton Senna or Jim Clark won under the circumstances lord alone knows.

[wackysleet]

I was interested in your Patrese comments and did some research. The accident you refer to with Peterson was in 1978. Patrese was cleared of wrongdoing and continued to race until 1993, which was then one of the longest F1 careers on record. http://en.wikipedia....iccardo_Patrese . Not that important, but just clarifying the facts.

Yeah, the ban was for the following race, the USGP.

Irvine also got banned for 3 races in 94 and Senna was sanctioned a number of times. I was replying to F1fan's stance that only Schumacher is picked on in this regard which is totally incorrect.

Actually it was not so much a ban as having his entry not accepted after Lauda and Hunt raised a stink about it and accused Patresse of causing the accident with Petersen, the fact is that Petersen after crashing badly the previous day and injuring his legs, "he actually suffered a lot of bruising," was driving the old Lotus 78 which was pedestrian compared to the 79 model and was rapidly being passed by others from the back of the field, the coming together of the Maclaren and Lotus was, according to one Mr. James Hunt, otherwise known as Hunt the shunt in respect of his aggressive driving skills was caused by Patresse, perhaps a debatable point as later on in hindsight a lot of people changed their views on Patresses culpability and took a long hard look at Mr. Hunt.

Unfortunately while Ronnie Petersens injuries were not considered life threatening he subsequently died of a blood clot, I simply mention this as perhaps the clot actually started to form from the previous days crash.

[silverhawk_usa]

I was interested in your Patrese comments and did some research. The accident you refer to with Peterson was in 1978. Patrese was cleared of wrongdoing and continued to race until 1993, which was then one of the longest F1 careers on record. http://en.wikipedia....iccardo_Patrese . Not that important, but just clarifying the facts.

Yeah, the ban was for the following race, the USGP.

Irvine also got banned for 3 races in 94 and Senna was sanctioned a number of times. I was replying to F1fan's stance that only Schumacher is picked on in this regard which is totally incorrect.

Actually it was not so much a ban as having his entry not accepted after Lauda and Hunt raised a stink about it and accused Patresse of causing the accident with Petersen, the fact is that Petersen after crashing badly the previous day and injuring his legs, "he actually suffered a lot of bruising," was driving the old Lotus 78 which was pedestrian compared to the 79 model and was rapidly being passed by others from the back of the field, the coming together of the Maclaren and Lotus was, according to one Mr. James Hunt, otherwise known as Hunt the shunt in respect of his aggressive driving skills was caused by Patresse, perhaps a debatable point as later on in hindsight a lot of people changed their views on Patresses culpability and took a long hard look at Mr. Hunt.

Unfortunately while Ronnie Petersens injuries were not considered life threatening he subsequently died of a blood clot, I simply mention this as perhaps the clot actually started to form from the previous days crash.

Yes, thanks. I couldn't recall any driver being "banned" from the sport for causing another driver's death. Just wanted clarification.

[carmine]

I was interested in your Patrese comments and did some research. The accident you refer to with Peterson was in 1978. Patrese was cleared of wrongdoing and continued to race until 1993, which was then one of the longest F1 careers on record. http://en.wikipedia....iccardo_Patrese . Not that important, but just clarifying the facts.

Yeah, the ban was for the following race, the USGP.

Irvine also got banned for 3 races in 94 and Senna was sanctioned a number of times. I was replying to F1fan's stance that only Schumacher is picked on in this regard which is totally incorrect.

Actually it was not so much a ban as having his entry not accepted after Lauda and Hunt raised a stink about it and accused Patresse of causing the accident with Petersen, the fact is that Petersen after crashing badly the previous day and injuring his legs, "he actually suffered a lot of bruising," was driving the old Lotus 78 which was pedestrian compared to the 79 model and was rapidly being passed by others from the back of the field, the coming together of the Maclaren and Lotus was, according to one Mr. James Hunt, otherwise known as Hunt the shunt in respect of his aggressive driving skills was caused by Patresse, perhaps a debatable point as later on in hindsight a lot of people changed their views on Patresses culpability and took a long hard look at Mr. Hunt.

Unfortunately while Ronnie Petersens injuries were not considered life threatening he subsequently died of a blood clot, I simply mention this as perhaps the clot actually started to form from the previous days crash.

All you say is correct. Hunt was a close friend of Ronnie Petersen, but I think its fairly roundly agreed that Patrese was not to blame. I always wondered what the real inner thoughts of Hunt were, and whether this accident was a major contribution to his retirement.

[b19bry]

Actually it was not so much a ban as having his entry not accepted after Lauda and Hunt raised a stink about it and accused Patresse of causing the accident with Petersen, the fact is that Petersen after crashing badly the previous day and injuring his legs, "he actually suffered a lot of bruising," was driving the old Lotus 78 which was pedestrian compared to the 79 model and was rapidly being passed by others from the back of the field, the coming together of the Maclaren and Lotus was, according to one Mr. James Hunt, otherwise known as Hunt the shunt in respect of his aggressive driving skills was caused by Patresse, perhaps a debatable point as later on in hindsight a lot of people changed their views on Patresses culpability and took a long hard look at Mr. Hunt.

Unfortunately while Ronnie Petersens injuries were not considered life threatening he subsequently died of a blood clot, I simply mention this as perhaps the clot actually started to form from the previous days crash.

Yes you're correct Wacky in that it was driven by Hunt and Lauda, but effectively he was 'banned' from the following race, (FIA sanctions did not exist in their current form at that time). I was trying to show F1fan's assertion that ONLY Schumacher gets picked by whomever on is incorrect.

[wackysleet]

All you say is correct. Hunt was a close friend of Ronnie Petersen, but I think its fairly roundly agreed that Patrese was not to blame. I always wondered what the real inner thoughts of Hunt were, and whether this accident was a major contribution to his retirement.

Carmine, Hunt joined a new team that had just started called Wolf in 1979 and in the first 7 races he retired in 6 of them, he was 8th and in qualifying { Kyalami} the breaks completely failed which probably gave him cause for thought after the death of his friend and to those who knew him, his hard drinking and varied life style caused him to consider his options which ultimately led to his retirement after 92 GPs in 7 years, 10 victories and a world title.

[carmine]

OK, but your point is what?

[b19bry]

All you say is correct. Hunt was a close friend of Ronnie Petersen, but I think its fairly roundly agreed that Patrese was not to blame. I always wondered what the real inner thoughts of Hunt were, and whether this accident was a major contribution to his retirement.

Hunt was a close friend of Peterson and was deeply affected by his death and yes it played a significant part in his retirement. He also never forgave Patrese and held him responsible to the day he died.

Sadly Peterson's wife Barbro also never recovered from his death and committed suicide several years later.

[wackysleet]

OK, but your point is what?

I was not trying to make a point, just stating the facts that may also have had a bearing on his retirement.

[b19bry]

Carmine, Hunt joined a new team that had just started called Wolf in 1979 and in the first 7 races he retired in 6 of them, he was 8th and in qualifying { Kyalami} the breaks completely failed which probably gave him cause for thought after the death of his friend and to those who knew him, his hard drinking and varied life style caused him to consider his options which ultimately led to his retirement after 92 GPs in 7 years, 10 victories and a world title.

Actually Wolf started as an entrant in F1 several years before that and became a constructor in 1978 winning first time out with Scheckter driving. A feat not equalled till Brawn did the same last season !

Hunt joined Wolf when Scheckter left for Ferrari but his heart was not really in it by then.

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>

the fact that Senna and then Schumacher were allowed to get away with it is why we have the appalling driving standards of today

<snip>

Spot on! With the rider that not ALL drivers are like that, but some certainly are.

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>

So long as he was out front he was easily capable of passing back markers that were getting flagged to allow him to pass, but when he had to actually race another driver he would resort to running them off the road, or his infamous double maneouvre blocking tactics.

Another spot-on post!

[WarpSpeed]

schumis time is over-he should realise this an go home to his wife and children.

what he did was absolutely dangerous,

i want to hear him shoutimg, if another driver would have done this to him.

he still thinks, he is the best of all, but he isnt by far.

Please read my last post.

But I do agree with you - Reubens was a far better F1 driver than MS, if it wasn't for team orders he would have won all those WDC's. No idea at all why EVERYONE (other than RB) thought otherwise.

Again too, of course he "isn't by far" the "best of all" - he's a mediocre driver that all the teams wanted 'cos they were too stupid to realise how mediocre he was.

It was the car that made MS World Champion so many times and the teams nous about the rules and strategy.

So long as he was out front he was easily capable of passing back markers that were getting flagged to allow him to pass, but when he had to actually race another driver he would resort to running them off the road, or his infamous double maneouvre blocking tactics.

:clap2: He had top secret different tire compounds from Bridgestone then any other competitor including his team mate Rubens any amount of them he wanted with no limits as just one major example and Rubens still kept in lock step with him on many occasions and was actually given orders to move over for Schumie on more occasions then come to mind. My memory is not serving me at the moment but there were several rules additional advantages of the time that favored a well funded team such as Ferrari, unlimited testing being another one.

The thing that Schumacher brought to the team was money from European support and that's why he was numero uno in the program not talent alone.. Never loose sight of the fact that F1 is always about money first, just ask Karun Chandhok about that, it is why he is sitting on the sideline and watching....

Edited August 3, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[wackysleet]

b19bry

Actually Wolf started as an entrant in F1 several years before that and became a constructor in 1978 winning first time out with Scheckter driving. A feat not equalled till Brawn did the same last season !

Hunt joined Wolf when Scheckter left for Ferrari but his heart was not really in it by then.

My memory must be going faster than my hair b19bry, what I seemed to remember was Walter Wolf bought out Frank Williams in 75/76 and used the car assets of what had previously been Lord Heskeths team, renamed as the Wolf-Williams which failed to qualify in a number of races that year but with FW gone and new people in and Jody Shecter hired from Tyrrel did actually win their first race in Argentina in 1977.

[b19bry]

My memory must be going faster than my hair b19bry, what I seemed to remember was Walter Wolf bought out Frank Williams in 75/76 and used the car assets of what had previously been Lord Heskeths team, renamed as the Wolf-Williams which failed to qualify in a number of races that year but with FW gone and new people in and Jody Shecter hired from Tyrrel did actually win their first race in Argentina in 1977.

Yeah you and me both on the memory/hair thing ! Your right it was 77 not 78 !

[silverhawk_usa]

My memory must be going faster than my hair b19bry, what I seemed to remember was Walter Wolf bought out Frank Williams in 75/76 and used the car assets of what had previously been Lord Heskeths team, renamed as the Wolf-Williams which failed to qualify in a number of races that year but with FW gone and new people in and Jody Shecter hired from Tyrrel did actually win their first race in Argentina in 1977.

Yeah you and me both on the memory/hair thing ! Your right it was 77 not 78 !

I have only begun watching this topic recently, previously expecting the usual he said/she said, bickering troll type posts, I stayed away. I must say there is an impressive amount of F1 knowledge shown here. Thanks.

[silverhawk_usa]

The BBC has story on the Schumacher situation and his comments; http://news.bbc.co.u...one/8878400.stm

One of Michael's statements;

Schumacher wrote on his website: "The manoeuvre against him was too hard. "I didn't want to endanger him with my manoeuvre. If he had this feeling I am sorry, this was not my intention."

In another statement he says; ..................he is sorry IF Rubens Barichello FELT he had been put in danger.

If these statements are true, Schumi is saying he is sorry how Rubens interpreted the actions, he does not appear to be sorry for what he did.

[b19bry]

I have only begun watching this topic recently, previously expecting the usual he said/she said, bickering troll type posts, I stayed away. I must say there is an impressive amount of F1 knowledge shown here. Thanks.

You're right the bickering gets a little tiresome, let's hope we can keep the more interesting posts going

[b19bry]

The BBC has story on the Schumacher situation and his comments; http://news.bbc.co.u...one/8878400.stm

One of Michael's statements;

Schumacher wrote on his website: "The manoeuvre against him was too hard. "I didn't want to endanger him with my manoeuvre. If he had this feeling I am sorry, this was not my intention."

In another statement he says; ..................he is sorry IF Rubens Barichello FELT he had been put in danger.

If these statements are true, Schumi is saying he is sorry how Rubens interpreted the actions, he does not appear to be sorry for what he did.

Shumacher has shown himself to be apologetic before as in 97 with Villeneuve, but it's just words. His actions speak volumes more, and they have been consistent over the years, the last race was merely the lastest episode.

[TBWG]

Hi

Well worth reading ~~~ A well written, well researched article about team orders.

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_feature_item.php?fes_art_id=41717

Particularly like the 'Big Girls Blouse' references!

TBWG

[JetsetBkk]

re. Team Orders

Anyone got an official update on the rule?

According to Bernie Ecclestone, the rule is meant to be "inter-team" not "intra-team". He says results are not allowed to be fixed between teams, but it's OK within a team.

This is, in my estimation, opposite to what the BBC race commentators were saying.

Also, it does not correspond to what Derrick Warwick, a race steward, said. He said that it is not allowed, but if you're going to do it, don't make it obvious - do it subtly like going wide on a corner so the other guy can overtake and make it look real.

What a pathetic response!

Edit:

@TBWG Cross-posted on same subject! I'll look at that link now.

Edit 2:

Just read it - excellent. That site is now bookmarked!

Edited August 3, 2010 by JetsetBkk

[TBWG]

re. Team Orders

Anyone got an official update on the rule?

According to Bernie Ecclestone, the rule is meant to be "inter-team" not "intra-team". He says results are not allowed to be fixed between teams, but it's OK within a team.

This is, in my estimation, opposite to what the BBC race commentators were saying.

Also, it does not correspond to what Derrick Warwick, a race steward, said. He said that it is not allowed, but if you're going to do it, don't make it obvious - do it subtly like going wide on a corner so the other guy can overtake and make it look real.

What a pathetic response!

Edit:

@TBWG Cross-posted on same subject! I'll look at that link now.

Edit 2:

Just read it - excellent. That site is now bookmarked!

Hi JetsetBKK

The Pitpass site is in my opinion the best F1 site on the web, its article are always well written & researched and seem to have a lot of inside information. Also Chris Sylt always has his finger on the pulse regarding all the F1 financial dealings.

TBWG.

[Mosha]

Ferrai IA to the rescue.

[WarpSpeed]

The BBC has story on the Schumacher situation and his comments; http://news.bbc.co.u...one/8878400.stm

One of Michael's statements;

Schumacher wrote on his website: "The manoeuvre against him was too hard. "I didn't want to endanger him with my manoeuvre. If he had this feeling I am sorry, this was not my intention."

In another statement he says; ..................he is sorry IF Rubens Barichello FELT he had been put in danger.

If these statements are true, Schumi is saying he is sorry how Rubens interpreted the actions, he does not appear to be sorry for what he did.

Exactly! Hollow apology if there ever was one... No sincere contrition whatsoever....

[TBWG]

I think I now know why Schumacher hates Barrichello so much ~~~ For your info Barrichello is the only driver to beat the STIG in 'Top Gears' star in the reasonable priced car!

see ........ http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8111984.stm

TBWG

[JetsetBkk]

I think I now know why Schumacher hates Barrichello so much ~~~ For your info Barrichello is the only driver to beat the STIG in 'Top Gears' star in the reasonable priced car!

see ........ http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8111984.stm

TBWG

Blimey! I would never have guessed that. How could the BBC afford him?

I have downloaded that episode of Top Gear (but haven't watched it yet) because it was mentioned in one of the interviews with Barrichello in a F1 programme.

So MS was beaten by him. That is quite a revelation and may explain a lot.

Edit:

The evidence:

Edited August 3, 2010 by JetsetBkk

[WarpSpeed]

Well like I said Michael is F1's equivalent to a metronome when he can drive his race but take him out of that rhythm and he has a tendency to fold. Rubens on the other hand has raced that way his entire career and still stayed humble too so that makes him every bit as quality a driver as Schumie in my book and he'd have far more wins and likely Championships too if he wasn't teamed up with Schumie and been the consummate professional team mate in doing so..

I was very disappointed for him coming so close & not having won the championship last year and again it was more attributable to his team then it was to him as he had several team and mechanical let downs early on in the season that certainly cost him the championship while Jenson was running up front unscathed and collecting points.. No driver has paid more dues to have that championship then he has and I fear that was his last opportunity as well.

[wackysleet]

re. Team Orders

Anyone got an official update on the rule?

According to Bernie Ecclestone, the rule is meant to be "inter-team" not "intra-team". He says results are not allowed to be fixed between teams, but it's OK within a team.

This is, in my estimation, opposite to what the BBC race commentators were saying.

Also, it does not correspond to what Derrick Warwick, a race steward, said. He said that it is not allowed, but if you're going to do it, don't make it obvious - do it subtly like going wide on a corner so the other guy can overtake and make it look real.

What a pathetic response!

Edit:

@TBWG Cross-posted on same subject! I'll look at that link now.

Edit 2:

Just read it - excellent. That site is now bookmarked!

With regards to the ban "so called" on team orders or at least Bernies present day interpretation of them, I'm sure some of you will recall the charade that took place at the 2002 Austrian Grang Prix when Rubens slowed right down on the finishing straight to allow Shumacher through for the win, Shumacher actually handed the trophy to Rubens on the podium and exchanged places with him, both drivers were censored and fined for the podium antics and the F.I.A. banning team orders from the start of the 2003 season so as the ban was the direct consequence of the race result being fixed it is obvious what the rules actually mean.

[TBWG]

HI

Apparently Naomi Campbell when questioned at the war trials court in the Hague was asked if she did not think it odd receiving a small bag of diamonds from strange men in the middle of the night? replied.................

Oh no ~~ Flav used to regularly wake me in the middle of the night to let me fondle the family jewels in his pouch!

TBWG

[F1fanatic]

re. Team Orders

Anyone got an official update on the rule?

According to Bernie Ecclestone, the rule is meant to be "inter-team" not "intra-team". He says results are not allowed to be fixed between teams, but it's OK within a team.

This is, in my estimation, opposite to what the BBC race commentators were saying.

Also, it does not correspond to what Derrick Warwick, a race steward, said. He said that it is not allowed, but if you're going to do it, don't make it obvious - do it subtly like going wide on a corner so the other guy can overtake and make it look real.

What a pathetic response!

Edit:

@TBWG Cross-posted on same subject! I'll look at that link now.

Edit 2:

Just read it - excellent. That site is now bookmarked!

With regards to the ban "so called" on team orders or at least Bernies present day interpretation of them, I'm sure some of you will recall the charade that took place at the 2002 Austrian Grang Prix when Rubens slowed right down on the finishing straight to allow Shumacher through for the win, Shumacher actually handed the trophy to Rubens on the podium and exchanged places with him, both drivers were censored and fined for the podium antics and the F.I.A. banning team orders from the start of the 2003 season so as the ban was the direct consequence of the race result being fixed it is obvious what the rules actually mean.

NOBODY has forgotten the Austria 2002 debacle, and never will - it was why the ban on team orders was introduced.

A few of us also remember that MS was going to win the next race but slowed down and let Reubens win to make up for it.....

For those that are pretending that I said MS was 'picked on', I quote what I actually said "Trouble is, as soon as Schumi is involved in anything, people start demanding he be banned."