Academic Vs Local Buddhism

[drummer]

I would like to expose my wife to more academic Buddhism. She is deeply Buddhist - er rural Buddhist. I am close to being an academic buddhist. We have had some conflicts re: religion, which I think would greatly be helped if she learned about what other people think.

So, anyone have any recomendations? She loves to read, especially about Buddhism. I got her a Dalai Lama book that I saw in the bookstore, but a book written by a well respected Thai monk about academic vs rural buddhism would be just what the doctor ordered.

Any ideas? Thanks!

[Abandon]

I think you are on a loser there somehow. In my experience however, while many westerners seem to 'know more' about Buddhism, it is really a thing of the heart and in this respect the Thai's are miles ahead of the best scholars. Thai's come to Buddhism through faith, rather than education. And I don't feel that either way is better.

But anyway, the late Ajahn Buddhadasa Bhikkhu of Suan Mokh was exemplary in getting Thai's to think more deeply about their religion, and his books and tapes can be found at the Maha Makhut bookshop next to Wat Boworn (bowonniwet) where the Sangharaja lives. In fact pretty much all of Thai Buddhism can be found there at reasonable prices, including probably the best English language section in the country. Other teachers - probably ajahn Cha and his followers, Luang Ba Sermchai who teaches at Wat Luang Phor Sodh near to Damnoen Saduak, ... etc there are lots of good teachers to be found in that bookshop. there are also Dhamma talks constantly on the radio (in thai).

[drummer]

I'm afraid that if I am on a "loser" than our relationship is, too.

Basically, I believe that the role of religion is to give a motivation for people to be good people. (a little more complex than that, but thats the Cliff notes version)

I've found my own way to do that. Other people have their own ways, which are perfectly acceptable to me. I don't have to believe what they believe in order to respect what they believe and what it gives to them.

sa, on the other hand, thinks that if I don't go to her temple (A faith healing place that isn't mainstream Thai- its actually Japanese, complete with foofy science to back up their beliefs) that I will go to H-E-double hockey sticks. She thinks that her way is the right way and that my way (trumped up a little bit for effect) leads to ###### and damnation, and that it is her duty to help me avoid ######.

My reading of the situation is that if she finds out that Thai Buddhism is not academic buddhism, that it incorporates pre-existing animism, from someone who's opinion she'd respect, that would help a lot. Combine this with learning about other religions and what they think, I hope that she will come to honestly believe what I do, that you are "judged" based on what kind of person you are, not what kind of sacrifices you make or how often you bow your head.

In addition, I 'live' in a world of science, and she in a world of magic (which you have probably already surmised) People at her temple are telling her that science is not a good thing (because scientists tend to think their beliefs don't jive with science)

Is there a dialogue about 'science' vs 'magic'? Thanks!

[sabaijai]

I agree with Pandit, Bhikku Buddhadasa is a very good place to start. Any Thai bookstore will have loads of books by Buddhadasa where he preaches, for example, that 'he11' is the anxiety of the human condition rather than a place out there somewhere.

Even better, if 'academic' is what you want, is P.A. Payutto, aka Ven Dhammapitaka. Again, most Thai bookshops would have loads of books by Payutto, one of Thaialnd's leading Buddhist scholars.

P.A. Payutto

"Universally acknowledged as Thailand's foremost Buddhist scholar, Venerable P. A. Payutto's works range widely, from detailed exposition of the Suttas and Vinaya to consideration of the problems of society, environment, economy, law, and science and technology -- all of these books and talks are based on an exceptionally profound and comprehensive grasp of the Buddha's Teaching, which is given full expression in his 'magnum opus', "Buddhadhamma", a book of over one thousand pages. We will here provide chapters from this latter volume, as well as examples of Ven. Payutto's other work.

Currently, Ven. P. A. Payutto is known as Ven. Dhammapitaka, a name/title given to him by His Majesty the King of Thailand. In the past he has published under the names of Ven. Debvedi and Ven. Rajavaramuni. The enormous project of translating the whole of "Buddhadhamma" into English was initiated by the Buddhadhamma Foundation."

[sabaijai]

็Here's another link specifically for P.A. Payutto's writings on Buddhism and science, along with those of other Buddhist scholars:

Buddhism & Science

Of course you'll have to find these titles in Thai for your wife, unless she reads English very well.

[Abandon]

The enormous project of translating the whole of "Buddhadhamma" into English was initiated by the Buddhadhamma Foundation."

Wasn't it Bruce Evans who translated the whole thing into great, accessible English - he used to be an abbot up North, and is a fine writer (I last heard he was an editor for Lonely Planet). But where the Thai is repetitious he condensed, and where Thai has one word for a concept that needs explaining in English - he expanded.

As far as I heard the foundation never actually read the whole translation, but came across one bit that was adjusted as described, and binned the whole thing. You still see his translations of some of the chapters ... but the very complete classic of Buddhadhamma remains unaccessible to the english language world. There is another translation of it underway apparently, but an independent effort.

[drummer]

thanks - that is exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for

[Abandon]

the books we have been referring to here are actually chapters from the Thai book Buddhadhamma (puttatam) which is available in entirety only in Thai. But it is highly technical Buddhism and no easy read for any but an expert. Take her to the Mahamakut bookshop and both of you can browse around and buy what tweaks your interest.

[sabaijai]

The enormous project of translating the whole of "Buddhadhamma" into English was initiated by the Buddhadhamma Foundation."

Wasn't it Bruce Evans who translated the whole thing into great, accessible English - he used to be an abbot up North, and is a fine writer (I last heard he was an editor for Lonely Planet). But where the Thai is repetitious he condensed, and where Thai has one word for a concept that needs explaining in English - he expanded.

As far as I heard the foundation never actually read the whole translation, but came across one bit that was adjusted as described, and binned the whole thing. You still see his translations of some of the chapters ... but the very complete classic of Buddhadhamma remains unaccessible to the english language world. There is another translation of it underway apparently, but an independent effort.

Yes Bruce Evans worked closely with PA Payutto before he (Bruce) moved back to Australia with his wife. I talked to Bruce a couple of months ago when he was here to visit a farang monk at Wat U Mong. He wants to continue with the translating but is pretty busy with a new kid and his editing job at LP. Bruce was an abbot (former name Phra Puriso) at Wat Pa Wana Photiyan, a monastery on an island in the Sirindhorn Reservoir in Ubon province, NE Thailand. He was a monk nearly 20 years, first ordained at a wat in Nong Khai.

[camerata]

As far as I heard the foundation never actually read the whole translation, but came across one bit that was adjusted as described, and binned the whole thing. You still see his translations of some of the chapters ... but the very complete classic of Buddhadhamma remains unaccessible to the english language world.

Coincidentally, I came across one of the chapters last week, sold as a book called Good, Evil and Beyond - Kamma in the Buddha's Teaching. In the introduction the translator explains that various changes were made to make it more relevant to western readers, but that all changes were approved by the author.

[Abandon]

Yes - the author is open minded and can make the cultural adjustments due to his sensitivity and understanding of Western culture. As I understand it was the foundation that objected to adjustments in the translation of the whole work which they felt should be 100% exactly as the author wrote it. Several books are around of various chapters which remain in Bruce Evans fluid and accessible style. The original, while a fabulous manual, is pretty technical and you will have to be a dedicated scholar to read it all.