Thai Army Speakers Win The Red-Shirts Day

[FunkyGuru]

Indeed hats off to current government and Army. Most, if not all, previous occasions when the protests did reach flashpoints, the nerves of those on both sides of the line were weak enough to result in blood shed.

The cause, the people, the rally ... all said and done, on a hot midday, when temperatures are high and so are the sentiments amongst the people with constant encouragement, almost instigation from their core leaders, these, otherwise simple country folks could become wild and unpredictable. Razor wires or not. When masses loose the patience, for whatever reason, they can be very unruly. To calm them from the other side of the line, through talking, is a great achievement. Try doing this on a personal level with an individual. Try to talk someone out of the hyper angry mood. Then one will realise the importance this great feat put on by Thai Army. Who ever thought of this, deserves due acknowledgement and praise. Good work.

Of course the rest of issue remains. We can all discuss and disagree upon. However, I suggest we must agree to accept what happened yesterday, the peaceful conclusion of army base, needs to be credited to Thai Army and their Talk Tactic.

[granuaile]

Yes, they all are fellow Thai.

Sharp contrast to the Tienamin riot in Beijing, years ago, when the Chinese politburo called in army units from far away in the outer provinces. The Politburo knew that local soldiers would be reluctant to fire on local residents/students, whereas soldiers from far away wouldn't have such hesitations.

ummmm, just when did you come to Thailand. Obviously not in 1976 or 1991!! A little naive to think the Thai Army have a squeaky clean record.

1991 is nearly 20 years ago. Different government. Different constitution. Different situation. Nobody said the army's history was squeaky clean over decades. They compared this to a comparable scenario.

[Cayenne]

Agreed! The army has handled this situation with far more maturity (who would've thought?) than the lunatics running the red leadership now

[jdinasia]

Yes, they all are fellow Thai.

Sharp contrast to the Tienamin riot in Beijing, years ago, when the Chinese politburo called in army units from far away in the outer provinces. The Politburo knew that local soldiers would be reluctant to fire on local residents/students, whereas soldiers from far away wouldn't have such hesitations.

ummmm, just when did you come to Thailand. Obviously not in 1976 or 1991!! A little naive to think the Thai Army have a squeaky clean record.

China --- 1989

Thailand 1976

Thailand 1991

more than a little naive to think that the reds have a squeaky clean record (2009)

[xenomorph]

From another posting:

"At the stage at Phan Fa Bridge, Mr Veera Musikapong, the UDD’s core leader proclaimed the restriction among vendors and operators around the rally sites including the private sector, in voicing their opinions with the media about how the rally affected trading as well as the country’s economic system and investors’ confidence."

That really sounds like a great way of democracy:

-It is forbidden to speak anything negative about us! -We are for democracy and against dictatorship!

Sounds like they are dusting off Thaksin's old habits of threatening the press and media if they utter any negativities about him.

This whole thing will be an interesting thing added to the world's history. A corrupt ex policeman manage to bribe his way to wealth. Starts a political party and bribe people to vote for him. Especially those in the poor uneducated northeastern parts of the country. Just like Hitler, he understand that way to success is to have the poor majority to vote for him by offering them something symbolic like later lending the governments money to them (putting the poor i dept to the country). He wins the elections. Comes into power. Starts handling this country's state money like as it was his own money. Well, he can't just put the governments money into his own just like that. He have to start projects as a cover, charging the bills 2x, 3x, 4x, the cost that it normally would render. He gets greedy. Others in his proximity feels that he's not sharing his source of wealth well enough. Some doesn't like what he's becoming. He gets ousted. He start a movement that will indoctrinate the poor about how good he is and how evil his opponents are. The head people in this movement, are people that are longing to regain the power throughout the country as the used to before. Just like himself. He, a totally corrupted capitalist, claims that he's on the "peoples side" and have been wrongfully ousted by others who are evil. Burn buses and cars on last years Song Kran. Threatens the existing government by violence if they don't step aside. A government who haven't done anything wrong or cheated anyone. Upon all this, I feel sorry for the poor rural farmers and other people that are being used by those corrupted minds, who's only goal is to get into the federal and local governments so they can continue to plunder this country's assets. Imagine how many schools and hospitals that could be built for all money that goes into the pockets of corrupted politicians. Get the support from the uneducated majority, and you don't have to bother with the clever and educated minority. The uneducated wouldn't parasite they are dealing with, until it's too late.

This is really something for the history books. A corrupted capitalist trying to act as if he were Che Guevara and on the poor peoples side....

Edited March 16, 2010 by xenomorph

[khunjamespittman]

three speakers in particular may go down in history as unsung heroes who defused a situation that could have gone horribly wrong.

defused a situation, maybe. Go down in history as unsung heroes??? who writes this tosh????

The Nation, Of Course!

[hammered]

I think some people have misesed the tongue in cheek three speakers stuff. The UDD have three main speakers of leaders - the three buddies. This story teasingly hints at that comparison too.

[z9999]

Yes, they all are fellow Thai.

Sharp contrast to the Tienamin riot in Beijing, years ago, when the Chinese politburo called in army units from far away in the outer provinces. The Politburo knew that local soldiers would be reluctant to fire on local residents/students, whereas soldiers from far away wouldn't have such hesitations.

ummmm, just when did you come to Thailand. Obviously not in 1976 or 1991!! A little naive to think the Thai Army have a squeaky clean record.

I came in 1968. Times and people have changed quite a bit since then. Most important is the facts relating to current events, and history is relevant only as a means of preventing past mistakes. If the Red-shirts are so intent on bringing Thaksin back, why does it require so much effort and funding by Thaksin and his closest cronies to motivate them?

I find that many of his supporters here, in the North have family members who work in Bangkok that are opposed to Thaksin. All the current activities, in my opinion, appear to be for the benefit of Thaksin, his family and cronies. Were Thaksin, his family and cronies to just fade away, the current government could focus on the economy and everyones lives could improve more quickly. Dividing a society is always done for the benefit of the ones creating the division. This is not a case of the rich versus the poor.

[animatic]

Indeed hats off to current government and Army. Most, if not all, previous occasions when the protests did reach flashpoints, the nerves of those on both sides of the line were weak enough to result in blood shed.

The cause, the people, the rally ... all said and done, on a hot midday, when temperatures are high and so are the sentiments amongst the people with constant encouragement, almost instigation from their core leaders, these, otherwise simple country folks could become wild and unpredictable. Razor wires or not. When masses loose the patience, for whatever reason, they can be very unruly. To calm them from the other side of the line, through talking, is a great achievement. Try doing this on a personal level with an individual. Try to talk someone out of the hyper angry mood. Then one will realise the importance this great feat put on by Thai Army. Who ever thought of this, deserves due acknowledgement and praise. Good work.

Of course the rest of issue remains. We can all discuss and disagree upon. However, I suggest we must agree to accept what happened yesterday, the peaceful conclusion of army base, needs to be credited to Thai Army and their Talk Tactic.

As any properly trained martial artists knows,

It takes more technique, honor and self control

to talk yourself out of a fight, than to talk your way into a fight.

By far.

Seems the army has a calm and collected Mr. Myagi in their Psy-Ops department.

And Abhisit also gets big points for his public ability

to divert the aggressive thrusts at him, and turn them toward peacefulness.

No mean feat for either part of the governance group.

[mauGR1]

ll

Hats off to the government they have said people have the right to protest peacefully and it seems have let them do so, with out incident so far.

Hats off to the majority of the normal folk who make up the majority of the UDD support, if you were to read the press reports and opinions any one would have thought WW11 was going to happen.

Although I suppose it is still early days.

I read an article a while back that suggests that there is split in the UDD (Thatskin) camp, one group it was suggested who wanted to move away from the Thatskin personality politics and emphasize more broad democratic reform, the other group who were basically benefiting politically, and financially through their association with the former premier.

The latter of these two groups need to be watered down and many replaced then I believe the Reds can move forward.

There are several factions within the UDD. There are even multiple "pro Thaksin" factions. Other factions include the communists, and others who are purely "pro democracy", which despite rhetoric is not a concern of the pro Thaksin factions.

Getting back to the OP, I do commend the Army reps for meeting with the group, diffusing a potentially hostile situation borne of the Red shirt leaders fiery rhetoric. They showed composure, concern, calm auhority, maturity. What a refreshing change from the politics of "face", "ego" and brinksmanship. Maybe a corner has been turned in this institution. Time will tell.

Like most of the foreigners in Thailand,i was,and still i am waiting for the worse to happen..

But it was refreshing to hear the 2 parties involved are having light talkings.

I hope things will go smoothly from now on,i hope common sense will prevail.

[animatic]

Yes, they all are fellow Thai.

Sharp contrast to the Tienamin riot in Beijing, years ago, when the Chinese politburo called in army units from far away in the outer provinces. The Politburo knew that local soldiers would be reluctant to fire on local residents/students, whereas soldiers from far away wouldn't have such hesitations.

ummmm, just when did you come to Thailand. Obviously not in 1976 or 1991!! A little naive to think the Thai Army have a squeaky clean record.

1991 is nearly 20 years ago. Different government. Different constitution. Different situation. Nobody said the army's history was squeaky clean over decades. They compared this to a comparable scenario.

To imagine that the great changes that have affected all Thais and the country as a whole,

such as incredibly improved communication's, transport improvement and general economic uplift,

has not ALSO had an positive effect on the militaries mindset, is not thought through well.

This is a full generation past the 1991 era army, and though the baton has been passed sequentially,

the current members are all subject to the same forces of modernization as other Thais.

So one can't look at the 2010 Thai Military exclusively or primarily through the crucible of

a generation passed into history. It is not the same group, even if some were juniors back then..

As the saying goes.

That was then, this is now.

[hammered]

The public release of the existance of foreign intelligence information is also no doubt aimed at sending a message

[losworld]

nice work hope things stay peaceful

[djayz]

To defeat these sily people and send them home simply obtain that new device in the States that broadcasts a painful high pitched sound. Thais HATE loud noises as we know. Further, they cannot abide bad smells - just spray something over the area and they will retreat.

What do you mean "Thais HATE loud noises"?! TVs and stereos turned up full blast every day, even at 7 am. Can't tell me that the Thais don't like loud noises...

[tigerbalm]

It is fairly clear that the only one with a need to rush things is Thaksin. The longer things go on with him being dishonored and discredited the less chance he has to re-establish himself.

The real reds (the poor that deserve and need change!) certainly do not need a real RUSH! They just need change. The change must be sustainable and significant. The problem the reds face in the real world if that as things change so will their lives, perhaps in ways they do not want. The shift from a rural agrarian society to a urban industrial society will not come without pain.

Education being the key is obvious but how to support education in all areas is the problem. Perhaps a tax-credit (that can be a real social welfare system in rural areas where people are not paying taxes). Even 6000 baht per year for each child actively enrolled in school would do it. That is only 500 baht/month to help cover school supplies and lost wages from having the kid work at home. That and an adjusted school year in rural areas that allow kids to help their families in planting and harvesting seasons?

The biggest expense would be getting all rural schools up to a decent standard. Western societies still have issues with this (but usually in inner cities).

Remember --- even those of us that are real "thaksin-haters" want to see change in a real and meaningful way in Thailand to help the poor. We just realize it can't happen instantly and it can't be sustained with bogus loans that can't be repaid and leave the poor even more vulnerable!

Have to agree on the Education point it is some thing that should be high on the priority list of both the PAD and UDD list denying them of a proper or should i say better education will only starve the country in the long run of oxygen, and would it be really that expensive and difficult to achieve considering the medium/long term benefits the Country would almost certainly gain.

[quiksilva]

Remember --- even those of us that are real "thaksin-haters" want to see change in a real and meaningful way in Thailand to help the poor. We just realize it can't happen instantly and it can't be sustained with bogus loans that can't be repaid and leave the poor even more vulnerable!

Couldn't agree more, nicely put.

[FM505]

To defeat these sily people and send them home simply obtain that new device in the States that broadcasts a painful high pitched sound. Thais HATE loud noises as we know. Further, they cannot abide bad smells - just spray something over the area and they will retreat.

Your perspective is only your perspective... a feined nationalist dialog hardly bolsters these nascent 'insights'...

Ever listened to Thai karoke?... doesn't seem to be a problem with the odious volume there... more directly - everyone would reel from an electronic high pitch wail...

'Just spray something over the area...' A most foolish notion...hardly worth responding to yet there is a compulsion to spotlight such idiocy.

You speak only for yourself... you represent no other(s).

Rather poor opening statements to the forum young fellow.

[FM505]

It is fairly clear that the only one with a need to rush things is Thaksin. The longer things go on with him being dishonored and discredited the less chance he has to re-establish himself.

The real reds (the poor that deserve and need change!) certainly do not need a real RUSH! They just need change. The change must be sustainable and significant. The problem the reds face in the real world if that as things change so will their lives, perhaps in ways they do not want. The shift from a rural agrarian society to a urban industrial society will not come without pain.

Education being the key is obvious but how to support education in all areas is the problem. Perhaps a tax-credit (that can be a real social welfare system in rural areas where people are not paying taxes). Even 6000 baht per year for each child actively enrolled in school would do it. That is only 500 baht/month to help cover school supplies and lost wages from having the kid work at home. That and an adjusted school year in rural areas that allow kids to help their families in planting and harvesting seasons?

The biggest expense would be getting all rural schools up to a decent standard. Western societies still have issues with this (but usually in inner cities).

Remember --- even those of us that are real "thaksin-haters" want to see change in a real and meaningful way in Thailand to help the poor. We just realize it can't happen instantly and it can't be sustained with bogus loans that can't be repaid and leave the poor even more vulnerable!

Have to agree on the Education point it is some thing that should be high on the priority list of both the PAD and UDD list denying them of a proper or should i say better education will only starve the country in the long run of oxygen, and would it be really that expensive and difficult to achieve considering the medium/long term benefits the Country would almost certainly gain.

These are good points... but by far the most expensive 'commodity' people (can) have is ignorance...

That being said, efforts to expand access to education, health care, finance, et. al. are infinitely more affordable by comparison.

Slow going yes, but a proper direction for the betterment of all.

[Curfew]

Yes the government essentially took the legs from under the protesters leadership.

The general niceness, and solicitousness for the protesters safety of Abhists public pronouncements,

must have been quite galling for the red leaders to try and counter.

Wow, after reading this article, and if I was a Red Shirt I would go home in shame and utter defeat. They were 'galled' big time like you say Animatic!

That Government just cut those Red Shirt leaders off at the knees - right again Animatic

You da man!

I mean listen to it:

• Military credit for composure
  
• Military speakers are heroes
  
• Military speakers teased nicely
  
• Friendly greetings from the military
  
• Army pacifiers
  
• No protests at local venues
  
• Protesters desrting
  
• Red Shirt frustration
  
• Abhisit and allies showed solidarity
  
• Blood thing a setback
  
• Left and Right opposed the blood thing
  
• Thaksin failed to demonize the army
  

12 solid reasons for the Red shirt democracy just to throw in the towel.

In fact this is so adulatory of the military, why dont we just put them back in Government

And Nation articles do not lie.

They are the paragon of balanced, unbiased reporting.

We report, you decide.........right.

I'm sure happy I am now informed

Complicity and 47 Rai

Edited March 16, 2010 by Curfew

[jdinasia]

hmmm who was it that always ended his posts with the misstatement "47 rai"?

[Americanperspective]

Silly in that they would allow themselves to be so used by such an obvious fraud. I mean who in New York, or London, or Anywhere would ever fall for this guy? He aint slick! He's full of grease. Any child could see him coming before he even left. He cares not one whit about anyone but himself and his singularly unattractive dopey offspring and "hiso" wifey. What a joke! I feel for these country people. They want not that much in life but to lay down at the feet of this evil despot is beyond all understanding. Democracy okay! Blow out old square head and let's talk. Taksin's son came to Bed Club once when I was there. He thought he was way cool...but he was just a rich kid insecure little nerd in sheep's clothing. Oh dear!

[Sao Jiang Mai]

Nothing to do with The Nation, ask the thousands of people watching red and yellow tv, it was broadcast live. The army was brilliant...and I have never been a fan of the army. They used really funny people to make really funny jokes which would be appreciated by the crowd, spoken in kam muang and lao (northern and Isaan) dialects. They said things like, "shall we strip off our soldiers, get them naked to show you there are no weapons?" the crowds went wild. Whenever the leaders of reds got the crowds riled up again, the army put on a slow song composed by HM the King and everyone chilled out and relaxed again. It was most impressive to watch and in this rare case, The Nation undersung its praise in my opinion. Things could have got quite nasty, especially after grenade thing, but overall, with the army's sense of humour, excellent timing, reaching out to the reds with respect, it went well. I watch ASTV and the red channel and mainstream media too and while there are shocking lies on both side, seeing all the bias helps find some semblance of balance!

[animatic]

Remember --- even those of us that are real "thaksin-haters" want to see change in a real and meaningful way in Thailand to help the poor. We just realize it can't happen instantly and it can't be sustained with bogus loans that can't be repaid and leave the poor even more vulnerable!

Couldn't agree more, nicely put.

Yes, totally agree.

[animatic]

hmmm who was it that always ended his posts with the misstatement "47 rai"?

Umm yas!

[mca]

To imagine that the great changes that have affected all Thais and the country as a whole,

such as incredibly improved communication's, transport improvement and general economic uplift,

has not ALSO had an positive effect on the militaries mindset, is not thought through well.

This is a full generation past the 1991 era army, and though the baton has been passed sequentially,

the current members are all subject to the same forces of modernization as other Thais.

So one can't look at the 2010 Thai Military exclusively or primarily through the crucible of

a generation passed into history. It is not the same group, even if some were juniors back then..

As the saying goes.

That was then, this is now.

I'm sure that will be comforting to the families of the Tak Bai victims animatic mate.

[brahmburgers]

In a society where people are nurtured from tender ages to look up to elders for full direction - it's understandable that those who feel disadvantaged look to government to end their travails. Granted, government can do some things, but the people also need to help themselves, and not expect prosperity to be put in their laps. That's what Thaksin had them believe, but many Issanites are in greater debt today because of false hopes from Thaksin's hollow promises.

Case Study: many of the protesters are rice farmers. Rice is good, but there are alternative crops which could be considered. In lieu of this year's severe drought, and the real possibility of more dry years ahead, rice is not the smartest crop to focus upon. Just one alternative: There are nut crops which would grow well in Thailand and yield much more per rai than current fruits and nuts (actually, SE Asians hardly grow any nuts at all, compared with western counterparts). Plus, some of those introduced nuts garner much more in the marketplace than run-of-the-mill crops currently grown. Example: macadamia nuts are selling for Bt.160/kilo in my town, and are only available at one place. Another example: Avocados are going high prices in farang stores, though they're rarely found. Why? Because Thais don't relate to avos or macadamias, yet if there's a high price to be paid for things which are easily grown, then grow 'em. Heck, if I was a farmer, I'd grow what pays the best in the marketplace. Those are the types of issues the Reds could be addressing, instead of which type of fermenting crap to put in a plastic bag, or how to get a billionaire an extra billion baht.

A. its members could 'think outside the box' (a tall order) and/or

B. It could get on with the business of governing. Instead government heads are too busy trying to avoid the arrows slung at them by a self-exiled selfish man who's bent on doing/paying anything to besmirch the standing government.

Edited March 16, 2010 by brahmburgers

[animatic]

To imagine that the great changes that have affected all Thais and the country as a whole,

such as incredibly improved communication's, transport improvement and general economic uplift,

has not ALSO had an positive effect on the militaries mindset, is not thought through well.

This is a full generation past the 1991 era army, and though the baton has been passed sequentially,

the current members are all subject to the same forces of modernization as other Thais.

So one can't look at the 2010 Thai Military exclusively or primarily through the crucible of

a generation passed into history. It is not the same group, even if some were juniors back then..

As the saying goes.

That was then, this is now.

I'm sure that will be comforting to the families of the Tak Bai victims animatic mate.

And we know who set the tone for those orders to be followed with such gross negligence....

Regardless, this is not the same situation, nor the same time and different people were involved.

This is still a descendant form the 'Nation Building,' 'us against them', jingoism,

that is inculcated into the Thais school system from pre-scouts on up.

'Our neighbors and hilltribe folk who are not being good little Thais in our choice of image

are dangerous people, and not as good as you, and so not worthy of the same treatment

as you the faithful Thai person."

This is generally a hold over from creating Thailand from Siam at a cross road of dozens of cultures.

Including the Thaiszation of Chinese names like Shin to Shinawatra and Wong to Wongsuawan etc.

It is an artificial overlay of goodness vs arbitrary badness to create ONE NATIONAL: PEOPLE.

The problem is this becomes a life time of interactive prejudices.

If the leader demeans the sub group and orders strong methods the inclination is to go farther.

The national leaders set the tone, and eventually it gets through to most citizens.

I blame Tak Bai on the culture and the leader, AND of course those army commanders

and soldiers on the ground hands on. Who should have been prosecuted.

But not strictly on the army as a group.

[INTJ]

Animatic, you have great insight and I always enjoy your posts.

Cheers

[mca]

But if we're going to hold Thaksin as part of the responsibility for Tak Bai shouldn't we hold the current PM equally responsible for the repatriation of the Hmong held in Nong Khai as " persons of concern" who Thai authorities said wanted to go home which was at complete odds with what the refugees told American officials. Aphisit was a bit quiet on that one.

I understand your contempt for Thaksin but let's have a level playing field yeah?

[elshaheen]

I am not being critical here about the protests. In school i work at, the primary students behave more civil then these grown up army boys with an ego trip.