Are Many Thais Rude Or Lacking Developed Nation's Common Sense

[johndpoole]

When reading the majority of these posts, my first and strongest feeling is that the (western) people experiencing these 'problems' continue to live with a western mindset and, unless they change this, will always be frustrated/exasperated/unhappy/pee'd off living in Thailand...

Spoken like a passive Thai who is scared to speak up to make things better or protect their rights... ignore the issue and put no effort into debate or fixing the problem and continue to work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week to maintain your status of just beyond poverty. God forbid you speak up about obvious problems that exist that can benefit your fellow man and create more harmoney and safety .... sorry to be rude on a rudeness topic threat but this kind of thinking is just idiotic. And it is not Western people just experiencing the problems it is all people living in Thailand. Or correct me if I am wrong and provide some links to people who like having doors slammed in their face and being knocked over while exiting elevators or the MRT.

Edited March 16, 2010 by johndpoole

[johndpoole]

You think too much OP.

Don't think.

Problem solved.

Hahahaha... you mean problem ignored... not the same as solved... in reality.

Yes, I think he pretty much probably summed up where the problem lies. God forbid we use our brain, communicate about observations, speak of differences in culture and how things could be/get better. Again, gives me further understanding of not just these issues but why the world in general has so many problems ... enjoying ignorance and being a sheep.

Edited March 16, 2010 by johndpoole

[bravia69]

So OP, do you think that's the worst behaviours exhibited in Thailand, think again!

There are much worst anti-social or unsociable behaviours in Melbourne, Australia!

Down there, people are being mugged or even stabbed whilst travelling on public transport, every day of the week!

Sometimes, you don't know, how lucky you are!

[t.s]

Its not rude. It a cultural thing, and not confined just to Thailand. Asians often consider western ways odd too. If you live here, you have to accept that thats the way it is and a few wingeing farangs are not going to change things.

Is this cultural -

Yesteday, i am waiting for a man to finish at the local kasikorn ATM Machine, till i realize that this fella is actually withdrawing 20K with the same card, to cover a 100k or more perhaps. Now, everytime 20k comes out from the slot, he counts it, collects the transaction slip and starts over again for the next round of 20k. He looked at me twice, till such time i gave him a nasty look and he stepped aside.

Prior to this one, again kasikorn atm, long queue of 10 ppl behind me already. And this bugger is doing the same thing withdrawing 20k over n over again. I had to tap him on his shoulder to show him the long queue, and then he gave me a stare (to which i responded in thai saying...wat the heck are you looking at.. the money is out there!) He moved thereafter, probably wasn't expecting thai from me.

i would have told you to piss off.

[tangcoral]

Coming from the States, holding the door for others is automatic.

However its not a rude gesture only because they dont see it as being rude.

Call me rude or just assimilating with the society but I dont hold doors for anyone as well after a few years being here.

Not by choice but just because that is what I see being constantly done and so it just seems normal to do.

This practice is done all over asia even in developed nations like south korea and japan.

Rude is only when society feels it is rude. Not holding the door is not considered rude so live with it.

Just the other day I was on the escalator at tesco lotus when I heard footsteps from behind. Normally I would move to one side to let them pass, but these days I dont. Its not like he gonnas say, "excuse me" or comment on my rude behaivor. Normally in the states you would hear a comment or recieve an unpleasant facial expression of dismay. Not in thailand! So who the fuc cares? Now I stand my ground.

SOCIAL ETIQUETTES FROM YOUR COUNTRY IS NOT UNIVERSAL, GET OVER IT!

Edited March 16, 2010 by tangcoral

[bravia69]

It is just not in Asian culture to hold doors open for others, to thank others for holding the door open for them,

This comes as a culture shock for someone from, say, Germany, which DOES have such a culture.

Similarly, if you want to change lane or something and the car behind you flash his light, in Germany it means please go ahead.

In many parts of Asia, it means you are getting in my way, and I am NOT giving way to you.

So if you want to hold the door open for others in Thailand or Asia in general, it is best not to have any expectation.

As the above poster said SOCIAL ETIQUETTES FROM YOUR COUNTRY IS NOT UNIVERSAL, GET OVER IT!

Edited March 16, 2010 by bravia69

[FM505]

When reading the majority of these posts, my first and strongest feeling is that the (western) people experiencing these 'problems' continue to live with a western mindset and, unless they change this, will always be frustrated/exasperated/unhappy/pee'd off living in Thailand...

Spoken like a passive Thai who is scared to speak up to make things better or protect their rights... ignore the issue and put no effort into debate or fixing the problem and continue to work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week to maintain your status of just beyond poverty. God forbid you speak up about obvious problems that exist that can benefit your fellow man and create more harmoney and safety .... sorry to be rude on a rudeness topic threat but this kind of thinking is just idiotic. And it is not Western people just experiencing the problems it is all people living in Thailand. Or correct me if I am wrong and provide some links to people who like having doors slammed in their face and being knocked over while exiting elevators or the MRT.

After reading this comment some thoughts came to mind with regard to an individual Thai person speaking up... not to drift off topic... but with the cultural stigma associated in questioning authority or even older persons for that matter, a rapid and deep sense of helplessness can be generated by any number of events: when a supervisor short changes a paycheck, or a teacher issues a low mark if they haven't been properly compensated, or medical services are withheld pending up front payment...

There is little the average person can do to combat the onslaught of every day life particularly those living toward the lower economic side of the scale... of which there are great numbers in Thailand. Often times I see blank stares and determine to myself that so many folks are just dazed and confused by events in their lives or in the lives of people they care about... this preoccupation can be mistaken for rudeness or lacking in common sense.

Again, the regrettable cultural 'error' that influences people to avoid confrontation with authority figures causes them to seriously withdraw and avoid eye contact with virtually everyone. Even after 'bumping' into another person there is a fear generated rather than an opportunity to reach out to another person and regard an unintended circumstance. Making eye contact, saying sorry, and smiling while acknowledging a odd situation will cause good feelings for people.

Questioning authority can be done in a productive and civil manner, but the key here is that it must be taught... and learned... and practiced. Persons in authority don't favor this kind of idea as they had to conform with the (ridiculous) standard practice until reaching a position that is now beyond 'reproach' for them. Retribution is harsh in this society. The Thai people can be rough on each other out of view... causing job loss, pay cuts, or reassignments to inferior positions and again, the average person has little or no avenues for redress of the situation.

It would be easy to lash out at a foreigner for whatever reason as this can not (or rarely) happen(s) in the face saving game of Thai culture. For lives to genuinely and more uniformly improve for average citizens, the stigma of recognizing and/or speaking out against rudeness, cheating, encroachment, graft, or corruption must change... as well as the defense of persons stepping forward to expose (or oppose) the wrong doing... not for the pleasure of a western mindset, but for the betterment of Thai society.

Edited March 16, 2010 by FM505

[FM505]

Just the other day I was on the escalator at tesco lotus when I heard footsteps from behind. Normally I would move to one side to let them pass, but these days I dont. Its not like he gonnas say, "excuse me" or comment on my rude behaivor. Normally in the states you would hear a comment or recieve an unpleasant facial expression of dismay. Not in thailand! So who the fuc cares? Now I stand my ground.

EPIC FAIL ...!

Why maintain your standards when you can just bag it and devolve...

Don't blame Thailand.

Neanderthal is a lifestyle choice.

Edited March 16, 2010 by FM505

[elkangorito]

Me: <After a meal, picking food from between my teeth with my fingernails (no toothpicks available). My finger never leaves my mouth...nobody can see what I've "picked">.

My Thai friend: "You shouldn't do that! It's considered rude in Thailand." <said whilst gouging a huge lump of snot from his nose, inspecting it & then wiping it on the underneath of his chair>.

LATE EDIT: This is one reason why "Waiing" is good...you don't know where their fingers have been prior to shaking their hands.

Edited March 16, 2010 by elkangorito

[FM505]

Me: <After a meal, picking food from between my teeth with my fingernails (no toothpicks available). My finger never leaves my mouth...nobody can see what I've "picked">.

My Thai friend: "You shouldn't do that! It's considered rude in Thailand." <said whilst gouging a huge lump of snot from his nose, inspecting it & then wiping it on the underneath of his chair>.

LATE EDIT: This is one reason why "Waiing" is good...you don't know where their fingers have been prior to shaking their hands.

That seems to be why the Wai is used... they know where their fingers have been.

[Topprofile]

Examples of the behaviors are …

Not holding doors open.

Has anyone seen someone drop the door in the face of their mother or grandmother??

They care about some but not others.. which is of course understandable..

The manners is there, it just depends on who is walking behind them..

Edited March 16, 2010 by Topprofile

[mca]

Surely a stoned crab would walk in a dead straight line.

[Yunnie]

Examples of the behaviors are …

Not holding doors open.

Has anyone seen someone drop the door in the face of their mother or grandmother??

They care about some but not others.. which is of course understandable..

The manners is there, it just depends on who is walking behind them..

Thats so true. lol

Its a mix of it being culturally Asian, laziness, lack of courtesy, and plain out rudeness. Its also depends on how they were raised. I know many polite Thais. They were raised in homes where politeness was key. Alot of others are raised in informal way, where politeness seems to only be for family and not everyone.

My mother, after being away from Asia for 30+ years get very pissed off when someone is being inconsiderate. Although she has more of a tolerance for other Asians depending on the situation but mostly no and she tends to gets pissed at farangs more At least she doesnt discriminate overall. lol. Cause to be honest, some farangs are just as inconsiderate by Asian terms.

Maybe I'm just use to it growing up in America but still learning Asian mannerism. I dont notice it much, although today there were two girls walking on the sidewalk real slow SE Asian way... and I couldnt go around them because of the food stalls on both sides of the sidewalk. So I waited till I could and booked passing them. lol

You just need to adapt and dont care. If someone is slow or wont move... walk around them or actually ask if they can move. To be honest if you ask them to move or something they will. Other then that, they will think you dont care so they wont care.

Same for the ignoring you when you order or something. You need to be verbal and ask before someone else.

People dont hold open the door... pray they install an automatic door like some 7/11? XD. Really, just be ready to catch the door.

But overall, I have not run into someone rude at all. Everyone I meet is polite. Although I must say, when I'm feeling very western, the "may pen aray" attitude gets on my nerves and I'm so close to yelling in English at people.

As for Japanese people being rude, I never notice that when I was there and I lived there for a couple months. I can honestly say they are 10x more considerate then Thais.

Or maybe my experience is just different being that I pass for Thai... until I open my mouth and talk in broken Thai or plain English. XD

Not what I dont understand is the ATM thing. Its never happened to me, but from what I'm reading, not only Thais do it. What I dont get is why you - a westerner( if you need to withdraw that much) would stand there and do it at an ATM. Wouldnt going INSIDE the bank and having the teller do it not only be faster and safer? hel_l if I had to pull out that much I rather be inside, where I can count to my hearts content and know that no one can run up behind me and grab my money. That or the Bank security guard that opens the door makes me feel safer. lol

Edited March 16, 2010 by Yunnie

[elkangorito]

My comments in blue.

Its a mix of it being culturally Asian, laziness, lack of courtesy, and plain out rudeness.

My mother, after being away from Asia for 30+ years get very pissed off when someone is being inconsiderate. Although she has more of a tolerance for other Asians depending on the situation. lol Mostly she gets pissed at farangs

Maybe I'm just use to it growing up in America but still learning Asian mannerism. I dont notice it much, although today there were two girls walking on the sidewalk... and I couldnt go around them because of the food stalls on both sides of the sidewalk. So I waited till I could and booked passing them. lol

You just need to adapt and dont care. If someone is slow or wont move... walk around them or actually ask if they can move. To be honest if you ask them to move or something they will. Other then that, they will think you dont care so they wont care.

Same for the ignoring you when you order or something. You need to be verbal and ask before someone else.

People dont hold open the door... pray they install an automatic door like some 7/11? XD. Really, just be ready to catch the door.

This is what I do. If you have expectations, you will be sadly let down.

But overall, I have not run into someone rude at all. Everyone I meet is polite. Although I must say, when I'm feeling very western, the "may pen aray" attitude gets on my nerves and I'm so close to yelling in English at people.

As for Japanese people being rude, I never notice that when I was there and I lived there for a couple months. I can honestly say they are 10x more considerate then Thais.

Or maybe my experience is just different being that I pass for Thai... until I open my mouth and talk in broken Thai or plain English. XD

Not what I dont understand is the ATM thing. Its never happened to me, but from what I'm reading, not only Thais do it. What I dont get is why you ( if you need to withdraw that much) would stand there and do it at an ATM. Wouldnt going INSIDE the bank and having the teller do it not only be faster and safer? hel_l if I had to pull out that much I rather be inside, where I can count to my hearts content and know that no one can run up behind me and grab my money. That or the Bank security guard that opens the door makes me feel safer. lol

About the ATM thing...when I first arrived here, I had no choice but to use an ATM & on such occasions, I had to make a few withdrawlas to get the amount I wanted. I would've rather done my business in a bank but this option was not available to me at that time.

If I can see that someone is making multiple withdrawals due to a "withdrawal limit", I patiently wait. It seems silly that they should make one withdrawal & then go to the back of the queue.

Generally, I open my mouth if somebody is being "pushy" or ridiculous...a simple "excuse me" (in Thai) usually does the trick.

[tangcoral]

Examples of the behaviors are …

Not holding doors open.

Has anyone seen someone drop the door in the face of their mother or grandmother??

They care about some but not others.. which is of course understandable..

The manners is there, it just depends on who is walking behind them..

Well the "who is walking behind them" part of it would matter if they ever turned around an looked.

Do they ever take notice on who's behind them?

Edited March 16, 2010 by tangcoral

[Yunnie]

Examples of the behaviors are …

Not holding doors open.

Has anyone seen someone drop the door in the face of their mother or grandmother??

They care about some but not others.. which is of course understandable..

The manners is there, it just depends on who is walking behind them..

Well the "who is walking behind them" part of it would matter if they ever turned around an looked.

Do they ever take notice on who's behind them?

Oh they notice you, but they dont care. Or more like... get your own door. If your not family or friend or really elderly, you need to open your own door. lol

[tangcoral]

I'll probably be hammered for this but...

When someone holds the door for me. I feel obligated to hurry my arse so they dont have to hold very long.

But at the same time when I hold the door, and see them run. I say to myself no need to run as its no biggie holding it for extra 2 secs.

Besides thais dont like to run. It just makes everyone feel uncomfortable.

[johndpoole]

When reading the majority of these posts, my first and strongest feeling is that the (western) people experiencing these 'problems' continue to live with a western mindset and, unless they change this, will always be frustrated/exasperated/unhappy/pee'd off living in Thailand...

Spoken like a passive Thai who is scared to speak up to make things better or protect their rights... ignore the issue and put no effort into debate or fixing the problem and continue to work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week to maintain your status of just beyond poverty. God forbid you speak up about obvious problems that exist that can benefit your fellow man and create more harmoney and safety .... sorry to be rude on a rudeness topic threat but this kind of thinking is just idiotic. And it is not Western people just experiencing the problems it is all people living in Thailand. Or correct me if I am wrong and provide some links to people who like having doors slammed in their face and being knocked over while exiting elevators or the MRT.

After reading this comment some thoughts came to mind with regard to an individual Thai person speaking up... not to drift off topic... but with the cultural stigma associated in questioning authority or even older persons for that matter, a rapid and deep sense of helplessness can be generated by any number of events: when a supervisor short changes a paycheck, or a teacher issues a low mark if they haven't been properly compensated, or medical services are withheld pending up front payment...

There is little the average person can do to combat the onslaught of every day life particularly those living toward the lower economic side of the scale... of which there are great numbers in Thailand. Often times I see blank stares and determine to myself that so many folks are just dazed and confused by events in their lives or in the lives of people they care about... this preoccupation can be mistaken for rudeness or lacking in common sense.

Again, the regrettable cultural 'error' that influences people to avoid confrontation with authority figures causes them to seriously withdraw and avoid eye contact with virtually everyone. Even after 'bumping' into another person there is a fear generated rather than an opportunity to reach out to another person and regard an unintended circumstance. Making eye contact, saying sorry, and smiling while acknowledging a odd situation will cause good feelings for people.

Questioning authority can be done in a productive and civil manner, but the key here is that it must be taught... and learned... and practiced. Persons in authority don't favor this kind of idea as they had to conform with the (ridiculous) standard practice until reaching a position that is now beyond 'reproach' for them. Retribution is harsh in this society. The Thai people can be rough on each other out of view... causing job loss, pay cuts, or reassignments to inferior positions and again, the average person has little or no avenues for redress of the situation.

It would be easy to lash out at a foreigner for whatever reason as this can not (or rarely) happen(s) in the face saving game of Thai culture. For lives to genuinely and more uniformly improve for average citizens, the stigma of recognizing and/or speaking out against rudeness, cheating, encroachment, graft, or corruption must change... as well as the defense of persons stepping forward to expose (or oppose) the wrong doing... not for the pleasure of a western mindset, but for the betterment of Thai society.

Well said!

But I did think of another odd (rude) action I see by many Thais but this one probably is a class thing. As men we all check out women when they walk by but we try to do it without be noticed. I was initially very pissed when I would walk w/my GF down the road and Thia men would check her out up and down with no regard to her or myself seeing this. I think this is usually the moe-cye frivers and tutk tuk guys but it is so common that I don't even notice it anymore but now have a better understanding why the females avoid eye contact and my be a little oblivious to their surroundings because if they look at any man they will see they are checking them out up and down with a clear look of desire on their face. I've discovered that it seems it is just not ignorant westerners that think every Thai girl who is not dressed in construction threads is a "working girl" or at least they appear to look at them this way.

[johndpoole]

Culture my ass, i don't see any difference to some Thais and some Westerners, some are polite with manners and some not.

Our direct neighbours are saints, nice as pie, clean living hard working professionals, whereas a little further away they are animals, brain dead thick simpletons.

It's the same the world over.

Although I don't buy this explaining it all, you do have a point. Here in Thailand when these things happen we are taught to keep our moths shut but in the US, you make a gesture, say something or react in some way letting the person know they are being rude. Maybe keeping it in is what makes it so noticeable. A simple "thanks jack-a@@" to the guy who does an offending selfish action seems to allow you (at least me) to forget the incident rather quickly or if it is a car double parked blocking traffic a heavy snot filled spit ball on the windshield actually makes the wait to get by worth it.

But seriously, it happens considerably more here I believe because of the lack of Thais speaking up and not daring to let somebody know they are behaving badly in public. Even when extreme rude behavior happens the most you will get from Thais is a look in their eyes as if they are a deer caught in your headlights ready to be run down. Even the security guards at our condo complex (about 20 at any given time) will just become spectators when the rare event of a loud dispute erupts or some drunk passes by and harrasses some women in the parking lot. They are all great guys and we tip them and give them food (in addition to them eating Budha offered food) but when a problem happens they just become spectators. I hate to say anything bad about them because they are very helpful and work long hours and always are courteous but why they call them security guards baffles me ... they secure nothing and just ignore the motorbikes (they have a stand inside the complex) that speed in the wrong way past the gate causing havoc for the people walking not expecting folks to be driving that fast and coming from the wrong direction .... So, even these guys with supposed authority are unwilling to simply tell the moe-cye taxi's to use the proper entrance and slow down.

I have come to the conclusion that if we are willing to say that this is a culture thing then we should be willing to say it is a stupid culture. There is something more deeper here and it may stem from an original culture of not being rude to people in public or embarrassing others but something got lost over the years to where even dangerous behavior is ignored by those paid to help prevent it. I believe that any society where there are no consequences for these kinds of actions, they would happen anywhere. Come on ... motorcycles racing down crowded sidewalks?!?!? Any western country you could throw a shoulder into them and knock them off the bike causing serious injury but it would be the biker who got ticketed (or jailed) and responsible for your injured shoulder.

IT IS RUDENESS AND INCONSIDERATION AND NOT CULTURE but it is born out of the fact their are no consequences for their actions.

How many drivers would pull to the side of the road for an emergency vehicle here if they knew that by not letting an ambulance pass and reach the hospital in time that a person could die and that they could then be arrested and sentenced for manslaughter? Do Thais really not understand that by delaying emergency vehicles they can cause death? I don't think any society is this ignorant but their is no consequence for this behavior except for the announces of having to listen to the horn and siren behind you.

I am such a liberal person and so against jailing most non-violent people but as I look at some things here, I realize it will only change once people start getting their a@@ kicked or thrown in jail. Then I think common sense and courtesy would not be a foreign or so complex for them to comprehend.

Even simply asking people in a nasty voice, "Are you F@@@ing Stupid?" when they do things like take their infant kid on a motorbike and cut lanes would probably have a huge impact. Thais don't want to be embarassed or shamed but nobody wants to let them know they are shameless, inconsiderate and HORRIBLE for placing a child at risk ... So, they are able to pretend they are doing nothing wrong and the other ROTTEN people who see them do this with no consequences get the idea is is okay to do with their kids too. One Story on the news of some person beating the crap out of some parent (while being cheered on by others) for doing this or even a cop jailing parent and taking the kid away would end this INSANE practice. But God forbid you make Low Life Scum like this lose face in public.

FROM 2007

The statistics released by the PHM stated that motorcycle accidents was one of the leading causes of deaths among Thais in 2005 with 159,867 severely injured and 9,877 killed. In 2006 - 164,836 were seriously injured and 8,908 were killed. Road and transport accidents were the second major cause of deaths among children after drowning, with 65% of the road accident deaths involved children as motorcycle passengers.

Is this an acceptable cultural thing that us westerners should just accept and not think about? I don't care what shade of skin I have or where I was born ... I would like to see the above figures change dramatically and pi@@ on anyone who thinks it is not a human concern and something left for Thailand to deal with because clearly Thailand is not dealing with this and it is a VERY simple problem to fix ... again, it is having consequences for your actions before your continued actions harm or kill others.

[bina]

john, u sound sincere and nice but u are really naive. nothing is that simple:

first of all, doors. do u know that in many of the shacks i visited in up country areas there are no doors, so its not a natural act. here, my kids are used to closing gates/doors whatever, cause we have three dogs, and i also often had baby goats in the house, they all helped me in the petting zoo where closing gates is a rule. howevr, city born folks would just walk right thru and not shut the gate. we always would say 'what, were u born n a bus?' (the driver opens and closes the door for you).

as for traffic accindents, here we have a very very high rate, and not for lack of advertising, police enforcement, and any other western methods, but the accidents keep happening.... due to bad, aggressive, high pressure driving. not stupidity. a whole family was wiped out last week due to an error of jusbment by a soldier in ajeepin a hurry; the father, and american, gave a full page rant about the exact same thing (his family was here visiting relatives),-- practically using your words. so its not so simple. there are deeper cultural problems then just: 'learning to be nicer/politer/better drivers'.

and a lot of it is education. you have the privelege of (im assuming here ) growing up in a priveledged, pro active country hwere people toe the line, literally (how many americans will push past a white line that says, do not go beyond this line.? well here, everyone goes past. why not? what will u do to me if i do?)

there is alot fo 'old boys' club mentality with thais; with no one strong to back u up, why bother to fight your fight. youll just get moved sideways. threfore lack of interfering. as for emergency? there are no ambulances as far as i know in thailand. its the chinese volunteers who have been known to fight over who takes the body to the ER.

how many years did it take to chage the american way of not seatbelting their kids, etc. here in israel it is very very recent. had huge arguements with my ex father in law about that. and i lost most arguements until the kibbutz big wigs made it an internal law for signing out a car. and providing car seats. and like most agricultural societies, our kids still pile in the back of a pick up for a ride to the orchards. (same parents wont give popcorn to their babies thought. the kbbutz nurse made that imprinted on all mothers' brains). so really it will take a while for safety to get imprinted in heads, and only through early education and repetition. as ive said before, ehre we are second world and always in a time lag of about 10 yrs from the states, in everything to baby forumula to bike safety and worker safety. so thailand iwll catch up, each year, by leaps and bounds, but only thru education and also from enforcemtn which is our biggest problem here also.

but safety is different then knwoing when to serve the salad. that is just social borgeouis bull.... proper forks, spoon on left of plate, napkin in lap, what to do with the left hand *under the tabe' or resting ont he table.... thats shallow surface bs, not politeness.

i watch my hsuband practically run to grap parcels when he sees some old lady kibbutznik tottering along with them, and he is not any different then the other thais i see here. and the thank you/good by when leaving thign has been discussed ad nauseum recently also.... in some thread soewhere here.

to bad the thais here dont respond (and we have a few lurking around, educated in the west etc...)

bina

israel

[wolf5370]

There are two things being discussed here (from the Op) as a single issue - and its causing cross debates. Common coutesy is one thing, but common sense is another. Though the former may be derived from the latter of course. We can't expect different cultures to carry the same courtesies and manors as we do in the west - even in the west we find differences between neighbouring countries as to what is acceptable or expected (like kissing when saying hello/bye etc). However, common sense is universal. The women sitting infront of a door way (from the opening post) in regular use, when shifting along three feet in either direction saves both her being trampled and people needing to climb over her (or ram her with the door), is just pure dumb.

A week ago, going down the escallator in CM's Airport Plazza, this little old lady gets to the bottom and turns, and begins sifting through her bag. I took three steps back up the escillator until I met more Thais looking at me blank faced, juist before we all ploughed into said dumb-arse old lady. This is not a cultural thing; this isn't a its-new-technology-I-don't-understand-it thing; its a dumb thing.

Edited March 16, 2010 by wolf5370

[MrRichard2009]

Yeah I agree culture my ass ..... My wife is not like that at all and has the same basic complaints about rude thai people as you. None of her\our friends or family display those kinds of behaviors. It's not a culture of rudeness it's simply that there is a larger percentage of poor and poorly educated people who are to busy trying to survive and don't know any better. I think to be fair in any country the higher up the social and economic ladder you go the better people behave.(at least to each other) Would you expect a lot of upstanding behavior from poor people in your home country that viewed you as a wealthy outsider ? I think as far a poor people go the people here are much more polite than dirt poor people in the "hoods" of the usa. I also think your expectations are to high, You go to a place and expect people to walk at your speed or they are rude ? Maybe they think you walk to fast and you are rude. You have never seen some rude drunk at a 7-11 in your country ? There is a whole cottage industry of rude bumper stickers and t-shirts in the usa ...... don't like my driving .... calvin peeing on a ford or chevy, ect, ect ..... Offensive "art" like Jesus upside down in a glass of urine is commonplace. People like Jerry Springer make a living off silly rude people with no lack of them lining up for the show! I could go on and on but my point really is that especially in the usa you are so surrounded by rudeness and offensive things of all kinds it becomes unnoticeable to some extent, where here aside from the driving and car parking people have more decorum so the lack of it sticks out more. If your surrounding yourself with poorly behaved low class people in Thailand they might not smile or hold the door for you, in America they are going to rob you, each other, and you will hear gunshots at night !

[Garry9999]

Yeah I agree culture my ass ..... My wife is not like that at all and has the same basic complaints about rude thai people as you. None of her\our friends or family display those kinds of behaviors. It's not a culture of rudeness it's simply that there is a larger percentage of poor and poorly educated people who are to busy trying to survive and don't know any better. I think to be fair in any country the higher up the social and economic ladder you go the better people behave.(at least to each other) Would you expect a lot of upstanding behavior from poor people in your home country that viewed you as a wealthy outsider ? I think as far a poor people go the people here are much more polite than dirt poor people in the "hoods" of the usa. I also think your expectations are to high, You go to a place and expect people to walk at your speed or they are rude ? Maybe they think you walk to fast and you are rude. You have never seen some rude drunk at a 7-11 in your country ? There is a whole cottage industry of rude bumper stickers and t-shirts in the usa ...... don't like my driving .... calvin peeing on a ford or chevy, ect, ect ..... Offensive "art" like Jesus upside down in a glass of urine is commonplace. People like Jerry Springer make a living off silly rude people with no lack of them lining up for the show! I could go on and on but my point really is that especially in the usa you are so surrounded by rudeness and offensive things of all kinds it becomes unnoticeable to some extent, where here aside from the driving and car parking people have more decorum so the lack of it sticks out more. If your surrounding yourself with poorly behaved low class people in Thailand they might not smile or hold the door for you, in America they are going to rob you, each other, and you will hear gunshots at night !

Excellent reply Richard, best post I've read in a while.

[endure]

I've said it before: I've found that Thai's are unable to understand the concept of causing inconvenience to others. Whenever it happens (often) all you get is a blank stare of incomprehension.

Well at least I got my rantings for the day out but feel a little silly that you were able to sum up exactly what I was talking about in one sentence .... "unable to understand the concept of causing inconvenience to others"

Ever heard of 'greng jai'?

[MrRichard2009]

I actually fail to understand the whole rudeness idea, I went to ping pong table in the neighborhood last night and both players stopped in the middle of their game to ask me to play, same thing when I go to a soccer field or those places that you kick the ball over the net, in the usa no one is going to pay attention to you let alone stop what they are doing to welcome you. When I go to a bar alone it's hardly more than 15 seconds before I am offered a shot of something from someone being friendly. And it is NEVER a westerner. Well to be fair once at 6 am some Russian guy bought me 2 shots of vodka once ! lol .... I have more than my share of dislikes here but the people being rude as a culture would never enter my mind as a complaint. My experiences are vastly different than than those who do, people hold the elevator door for me why not you ? People nod in thanks to me when I am polite driving or whatever, why not you ? Or anyone else complaining .... My guess would be your not giving as much as you want to get, I don't know any polite people who do not receive it in return much more often than being returned with rudeness. My advice would be improve your own manners and people will respond in kind and you will improve your batting average as it were in receiving kindness and good manners.

[wintermute]

If you want a good idea on what the Thai mindset is go look at one of those soi dogs who sleeps right in the middle of a walkway or in front of a 7-11 while the sliding glass doors open to blow air onto them. Thais will 99% of the time step over the dog and into the store. The reason why the dog does this is because it has been conditioned over time to learn that they can do this without getting punted out of the way. Thai people do similar things with each other and it's generally not a big deal.

Farang just need to relax because not everything is some personal affront. If you want to know what Thais consider rude then it's loudness and arrogance which is something that western tourists bring in abundance when they come to Thailand.

Edited March 16, 2010 by wintermute

[vranish]

Its not rude. It a cultural thing, and not confined just to Thailand. Asians often consider western ways odd too. If you live here, you have to accept that thats the way it is and a few wingeing farangs are not going to change things.

Is this cultural -

Yesteday, i am waiting for a man to finish at the local kasikorn ATM Machine, till i realize that this fella is actually withdrawing 20K with the same card, to cover a 100k or more perhaps. Now, everytime 20k comes out from the slot, he counts it, collects the transaction slip and starts over again for the next round of 20k. He looked at me twice, till such time i gave him a nasty look and he stepped aside.

Prior to this one, again kasikorn atm, long queue of 10 ppl behind me already. And this bugger is doing the same thing withdrawing 20k over n over again. I had to tap him on his shoulder to show him the long queue, and then he gave me a stare (to which i responded in thai saying...wat the heck are you looking at.. the money is out there!) He moved thereafter, probably wasn't expecting thai from me.

Erm.. While I agree with the comments in the thread about Thais being strangely spatially unaware I fail to see the issue here and if you had tapped me on my shoulder while I was doing my banking you would have been told to back off.

I used to have to take 100k out of an ATM monthly, what do you want me to do, queue up 5 times, or allow someone through each time ?? No I queue up and wait like everyone else, and when its my turn I use it until I am finished.

I cant even understand how else you would expect it to operate.

I understand what you are saying but would you really not step aside if you had that much ATM work to do and the que got long? Plus, can't you take out more than 20k at a pop? Obviously he had at least a 100k daily limit on his card. I think the frustration may have also come from how Thai's love to count money 3 times before they believe the amount (always makes visits to the 7-11 fun). But I agree, this is an irritation I think we all experience in all parts of the world. But kind of similar to the store when somebody has 30 items and you are just buying a pack of smokes and they let you go ahead. I would be unhappy with this experience but wouldn't be pissed unless it was actually at the bank and the bank was open.

But do ATM's here have a limit on what they will disperse? I usually take out 20k at a time and have to go to a special screen to enter the number but I could swear I once took out 40k in one shot. I know my ATM has a daily limit and think many ATMS may have a transaction limit but think those are the off brand ATMS (not affiliated with any bank) but "think" the actual bank ATMs will give you what every your daily limit is.

You generally cannot take out more than about $300US in one ATM transaction in any country. In a country where so many transactions that would be handled with a check are handled in cash, you were out of line to be hostile towards him. He was probably withdrawing money to pay rent or for a business transaction.

[MrRichard2009]

Some guy needs 100k and takes his turn in line and does his thing but your turn is so much more important he is the rude one ? If you looked at me like that I would have told you to f-off

[jackr]

I am convinced it is not callousness, but simple mindlessness...I have found that most Thai have one-track minds...a single-minded purposefulness which cannot be burdened by extra thoughts. The ability to multitask is a rare ability.

Nail on head

[kikoman]

You are imposing on Thailand's people your values (Western Values), Thais do not go by those values as many Thai also look down on falangs actions, showing affection in public, wearing you shoes in their homes, lack of bathing, Public intoxication, loud noisy rude behavior etc.

Your are in a different country, with different values and customs, (Their values and customs). Yet you place your value judgement on their behavior in their country.

You want to live a western pace of life here in Thailand, Slow down, you will enjoy it more.

I also live here for the past decade, and try to live by the customs of the country.

Cheers: