Red Shirts Shot Themselves In The Foot?

[Tedhead]

I hope you have also noticed that PM Abhisit is getting tougher and tougher regarding corruption and he's even removed people from his own party from high positions (unheard of in the past), and he's progressively getting tougher and demanding accountability from the police etc., also unheard of in the past.

So why hasn't Abhisit removed his Deputy Prime Minister, Suthep Thaugsuban, who had to resign as an MP in 2009, before he was banned? Abhisit is keeping the old crook as the party's number two.

When the 2nd most powerful man in the party is a known grafter and he's left in his position of authority at the right hand of Abhisit, just how far does Abhisit's crusade against corruption extend?

[Ulysses G.]

If indeed Thaskin was a real leader, why is he not here leading, instead at some resort in Motanegro? Why did his family and relitives all flee the country?

The human instinct for self preservation?

Edited March 16, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[Meridian007]

Reds are doing fine!

Yup, they've accomplished absolutely nothing at all.

I think that what this has at least shown, is that poor people will do almost anything for money. I don't think this will come as a surprise to anyone here, but because of this, if Thaksin decides that he wants another protest in Bangkok, he will get it. As long as he provides the funds, there will be people willing to come out.

I think the "love" of Thaksin has waned a bit, but he was such a colourful personality, that he sticks out in their minds. There have been development plans put forward by the Abhisit government, but they aren't allowed into the "red zones" because the last thing that the red leaders want is Abhisit being seen as helping the people of Issan. Therefore, there isn't a chance for the current government to make any headway.

[catmac]

I hope you have also noticed that PM Abhisit is getting tougher and tougher regarding corruption and he's even removed people from his own party from high positions (unheard of in the past), and he's progressively getting tougher and demanding accountability from the police etc., also unheard of in the past.

So why hasn't Abhisit removed his Deputy Prime Minister, Suthep Thaugsuban, who had to resign as an MP in 2009, before he was banned? Abhisit is keeping the old crook as the party's number two.

When the 2nd most powerful man in the party is a known grafter and he's left in his position of authority at the right hand of Abhisit, just how far does Abhisit's crusade against corruption extend?

And how will Abhisit deal with the rural elites, when his Parliamentary survival depends on the likes of Newin's mob, whose blend of corruption and thuggery must be a case study of what has gone wrong with rural politics?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Does it matter if he personally paid for it? He respected them enough to get budgets assigned to get rural development projects done, where decades before there was just mud & dust. That's *a lot* more than any previous government did for them.

Yes it does matter just like the vote buying matters...

If indeed Thaskin was a real leader, why is he not here leading, instead at some resort in Motanegro? Why did his family and relitives all flee the country?

I would think that's obvious.. He's being prosecuted on politically motivated charges and cannot expect fair treatment under the current regime.

So does it matter if the Mafia gives money to the church, or to schools???? After all it is just money...and it does so much good...However there is always a price to be paid.

You've lost me.. I thought we all agreed that Thaksin implemented populist policies that empowered and developed previously forgotten rural areas. After that, the folks living in those rural areas thank him for it. It's basic politics, nay, basic human nature.

[old wanderer]

Does it matter if he personally paid for it? He respected them enough to get budgets assigned to get rural development projects done, where decades before there was just mud & dust. That's *a lot* more than any previous government did for them.

Yes it does matter just like the vote buying matters...

If indeed Thaskin was a real leader, why is he not here leading, instead at some resort in Motanegro? Why did his family and relitives all flee the country?

I would think that's obvious.. He's being prosecuted on politically motivated charges and cannot expect fair treatment under the current regime.

So does it matter if the Mafia gives money to the church, or to schools???? After all it is just money...and it does so much good...However there is always a price to be paid.

You've lost me.. I thought we all agreed that Thaksin implemented populist policies that empowered and developed previously forgotten rural areas. After that, the folks living in those rural areas thank him for it. It's basic politics, nay, basic human nature.[/color]

How is defining a criminal prosecution just politically motivated charges. Thaskin wife was sentenced to 3 years in jail for tax evasion. He was sentenced to 2 years in jail, and is facing at least 15 different criminal cases if he returns. However sitting in a safe resort, while your troops are putting themselves on the line, is the leadership of a coward.

If you also have a short memory, Thaskin was the king of filing libel suits against anyone and everyone when he was in power. Now that is political motivated cases. Politically motivated cases happen in civil court not criminal court.

Sorry you wish to be an ostrich about Thaskin...just like the mafia, he was a criminal enterpise, corrupting, stealing, killing, kidnapping, and intimidating people when he was in power. His policies did far more benifit for him, than they did for all the people of Issan. There is little talk about how many thousand lost thier land because they were not sophisticated enough to understand the agreements they signed. It was as easy as when the white men offered colored beads to the American Indians just for signing a piece of paper.

Have you also forgotten when he sold Man City, England confiscated the money, as he could not show where the money came from, as is the case with many criminals. He lost that money, and you can hardly say England was politially motivated when they took the money or revoked his visa..it was the law, not politics.

As you travel through Issan today, yes the people now have electricity and cell phones, the roads that were paved with an inch of blacktop are now full of pot holes, and there are few young wishing to stay in the villages, hence the slums we see around Bangkok, and the draw of the factories.

Some of this was started during Thaskins rein, however the King also played a major role in bringing this to the people.

As I said in my orginal post just like the Mafia Godfather, he may give you charity, he may do you a favor, but someday he will want to be paid back...

[britmaveric]

UK never confiscated the dosh for Man City Sale. Where do you get this rubbish?

[rametindallas]

I hope you have also noticed that PM Abhisit is getting tougher and tougher regarding corruption and he's even removed people from his own party from high positions (unheard of in the past), and he's progressively getting tougher and demanding accountability from the police etc., also unheard of in the past.

So why hasn't Abhisit removed his Deputy Prime Minister, Suthep Thaugsuban, who had to resign as an MP in 2009, before he was banned? Abhisit is keeping the old crook as the party's number two.

When the 2nd most powerful man in the party is a known grafter and he's left in his position of authority at the right hand of Abhisit, just how far does Abhisit's crusade against corruption extend?

Abhisit hasn't removed Suthep because Suthep is his pitbull dog. In Thai politics it's a dog eat dog world and Abhisit is not that tough so Suthep takes the pressure of him. Chalerm had the same role for PPP. Bush had Cheney. Obama has Rahm Emmanuel. Does this help you understand?

[rametindallas]

UK never confiscated the dosh for Man City Sale. Where do you get this rubbish?

Thaksin down to his last US$500 million?

by The Nation, Asia News Network|15 March 2010

Ex-prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra was believed to have US$5 billion (S$7.2 billion) of overseas assets in nominal value as stock markets were peaking, oil was trading at US$140 a barrel and Middle East real estate was going up every day. But, with the collapse of the global financial markets and the commodity prices, Thaksin's core money is now believed to be worth not more than US$500 million.

"By my calculations, the core money is not worth much more than US$500 million at today's liquidation value, and Thaksin's capacity to hold on to the debt is diminishing fast, by the day. So, in brief, his net worth has declined from a notional figure of US$5 billion to the present value of US$500 million," said the international financier, who asked not to be named.

Much worse, the UK government has frozen about US$4.2 billion in assets believed to belong to ex-prime minister Thaksin shortly after it revoked his and Khunying Pojaman Shinawatra's visas in November, according to local and international money managers.

The UK authorities normally give the "beneficiary owners" of the frozen assets six months to step forward to declare ownership. If the authorities are satisfied with the evidence, they release the assets back to the beneficiary owners.

Earlier, Arabian-business.com reported that the UK has frozen US$4 billion of Thaksin's assets. "The UK froze his reputed US$4 billion of assets, forcing him to sell Manchester City to Abu Dhabi's Sheikh Mansour. To add to his troubles, his UK visa was revoked - oh, and his wife divorced him last week," the Arabianbusiness report said.

Yet so far nobody has come out to confirm or deny this report.

Of the US$4.2 billion being frozen by the UK authorities, US$1.4 billion represents Thaksin's core money, plus US$40 million in futures trading margin, US$300 million in Swiss bank core money excluding margin money and US$300 million core money in Dubai. The rest is debt.

The total contracts of his oil, rice and gold future...exceeded US$450 million.They are now at risk of being liquidated because of the adverse market conditions.

In relation to the downsizing of Mr.Thaksin's assets.Thaksin's real problem, however, is to prove that the source of money in the UK and Switzerland is credible, without which a big chunk of his assets will be frozen for quite a while. Having too many offshore companies with bearer shares is not helping matters in an environment where he has been convicted and jumped bail.

At the moment, the situation is rather complicated for Thaksin because all the frozen assets are under nominee names. He has been using 20 to 25 offshore companies for financial transactions, including two major Swiss banks and three private banks in Geneva," said the international money manager, who has followed the Manchester City Football Club deal closely.

Parts of Thaksin's frozen money also represent margin loans provided by the Swiss banks, which are also trying to sort out the legal problems to get the money back, he added.

Other assets are invested in oil, rice and gold futures trading, in new condo buildings in Dubai and other portfolio investments. The total contracts of his oil, rice and gold future trading exceeded $450 million in face value. They are now at risk of being liquidated because of the adverse market conditions.

"Also, I was told by Adnan Khashoggi's people in Dubai and Abu Dhabi that the huge investment in new condo buildings in the Gulf is at risk of being wiped out since it was loaded with bank debt. Total outlay is in excess of US$1.2 billion, though the loss (if materialised) will probably be about US$250 - US$300 million," said the international financier.

Another US$550-million portfolio believed to belong to Thaksin is being managed by the two major Swiss banks and three private banks in Geneva and is also doing badly. Without proper risk-insurance coverage, the value of this portfolio has declined significantly, he added.

He said: "I believe Thaksin now has only US$500 million left. So the Thai assets [bt76 billion, S$3 billion] are now very critical to him. Khunying Pojaman's return to Thailand is primarily aimed at protecting this final piece of their assets. Thaksin is also weighing the possibility of returning to Thailand himself to reclaim the Thai assets, which have become very critical to him."

A Thai businessman by the name of "Phairoj P" has been acting as a front man on Thaksin's behalf in making the dubious money transfers into the UK.

"Phairoj was a surrogate in helping Thaksin to acquire the football club. When only 10,000 pounds of (Bt508,000) was transferred into Phairoj's bank account, the UK authorities asked him where the money came from but he could not give a satisfactory answer.

That led the UK authorities to mount a series of assets freezes. Phairoj, too, is facing trouble with the UK authorities," said a local banker, who asked not to be named. "But I have not heard anything much beyond that. I only know that he has lots of money overseas."

As it turned out, the UK authorities found out that Thaksin's money - virtually all under other nominee names - came from offshore companies.

In relation to Thaksin's move to the UK.The UK authorities started to focus their attention on the high-profile Thaksin when he announced his buy-out of Manchester City in 2007. Since Thaksin was from Thailand and had taken refuge in London after being ousted from office by a military coup in September 2006, his money transferred into the UK should have come from Thai banks or Thai companies.

As it turned out, the UK authorities found out that Thaksin's money - virtually all under other nominee names - came from offshore companies located in such places as Guernsey or Isle of Man and directly from the Swiss banks.

Thaksin altogether invested more than 200 million pounds (S$426 million), including the cost of buying the players, in the football club. That huge investment prompted the UK authorities to launch an investigation into the trail of the money transfers and eventually nail Thaksin and his wife with the revocation of their visas.

Much worse, over the past two years, Thaksin has been actively making business deals that have turned sour to the extent that he is now desperate to reclaim his frozen assets in Thailand.

"Before Thaksin had more money in the overseas than his Bt76 billion frozen in Thailand. He could just easily walk away from his Thai assets. But now most of his overseas investment has been blown away. He has lost his money badly in the futures trading.

"Thaksin is bound to lose money in his investment because he only looks at the upside gains and never knows when to stop."

A local money manager with experience in international finance discussing Thaksin's investment style.My good guess is that he has only in the Bt10-billion range left. So he is rather desperate to try to get hold of his frozen assets in Thailand. But that will not be easy now," said a local money manager who has extensive experience in international finance.

"Thaksin is bound to lose money in his investment because he only looks at the upside gains and never knows when to stop," he added.

On Wednesday, Thai Rath, a local mass daily, hinted that Thaksin might decide to fly into Thailand soon in order to salvage his sagging political base, with the defection of Newin Chidchob, the political kingmaker, and the possibility of the breaking apart of the Pheu Thai Party.

Thaksin's whereabouts has been kept secret. But he is now believed to be operating out of Delhi as his headquarters.

"Interestingly, Thaksin appears to have strong links with India via a powerful agent in Delhi. He has established a base there and, in my view, that connection will prove his strongest international connection. It is close to Thailand, it is where he has the freedom to operate politically, it is a free-wheeling money market/investment climate and I guess no extradition treaty with Thailand," the international financier said.

[britmaveric]

^ahhh more Nation rubbish!!!

Thaksin doubled his money in City sale

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/oc.../manchestercity.

Edited March 16, 2010 by britmaveric

[Garry9999]

The blood throwing has made news on almost every major world news site. (Try googling it)

All publicity is good publicity right?

[Tedhead]

I hope you have also noticed that PM Abhisit is getting tougher and tougher regarding corruption and he's even removed people from his own party from high positions (unheard of in the past), and he's progressively getting tougher and demanding accountability from the police etc., also unheard of in the past.

So why hasn't Abhisit removed his Deputy Prime Minister, Suthep Thaugsuban, who had to resign as an MP in 2009, before he was banned? Abhisit is keeping the old crook as the party's number two.

When the 2nd most powerful man in the party is a known grafter and he's left in his position of authority at the right hand of Abhisit, just how far does Abhisit's crusade against corruption extend?

Abhisit hasn't removed Suthep because Suthep is his pitbull dog. In Thai politics it's a dog eat dog world and Abhisit is not that tough so Suthep takes the pressure of him. Chalerm had the same role for PPP. Bush had Cheney. Obama has Rahm Emmanuel. Does this help you understand?

I understand completely the desirability of having a political rottweiler, but that wasn't my question. My question was, how can someone characterize Abhisit as rooting out corruption wherever it rears its ugly head when the second most important man in the party is as bent as a nine bob note?

[rametindallas]

I hope you have also noticed that PM Abhisit is getting tougher and tougher regarding corruption and he's even removed people from his own party from high positions (unheard of in the past), and he's progressively getting tougher and demanding accountability from the police etc., also unheard of in the past.

So why hasn't Abhisit removed his Deputy Prime Minister, Suthep Thaugsuban, who had to resign as an MP in 2009, before he was banned? Abhisit is keeping the old crook as the party's number two.

When the 2nd most powerful man in the party is a known grafter and he's left in his position of authority at the right hand of Abhisit, just how far does Abhisit's crusade against corruption extend?

Abhisit hasn't removed Suthep because Suthep is his pitbull dog. In Thai politics it's a dog eat dog world and Abhisit is not that tough so Suthep takes the pressure of him. Chalerm had the same role for PPP. Bush had Cheney. Obama has Rahm Emmanuel. Does this help you understand?

I understand completely the desirability of having a political rottweiler, but that wasn't my question. My question was, how can someone characterize Abhisit as rooting out corruption wherever it rears its ugly head when the second most important man in the party is as bent as a nine bob note?

Well, if he roots around in his coalition, a veritable font of corruption, he will be out of power quicker than if he resigned.

[Ulysses G.]

Hear, hear!

[Samuian]

^ahhh more Nation rubbish!!!

Thaksin doubled his money in City sale

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/oc.../manchestercity.

Where there is smoke, there is fire, even on a rubbish dump like this - Sir!

AND it does COST money to funnel illegal money around, not taking involved risk into account!

Shady deals, shady people, shady outcome....!

Edited March 17, 2010 by Samuian

[Pakboong]

I would not be so sure about that.

As evidenced by the outrage of people like you and from the coverage by the national and international media I feel that the stunt is very effective. People are talking about it and that's exactly what the Reds want and need. The worst thing for them is being forgotten. Their symbolic act is something that raises the attention of the masses not only in Thailand and many want to know the answer to why they are doing it. Now imagine putting a strong spin behind it and it can be a winner for the Red. No matter whether good or bad - the people are talking about it everywhere.

The people that are against the Reds will find hundreds of reasons why this is a stupid idea, the people that are strongly in favor of the reds will understand, encourage and appreciate it and the majority will not care very much. The reaction to the blood splattering will polarize more people and that's again what they need.

Don't flame me for taking the Red's side by claiming their stunt is effective; I'm not a friend of such groups (I would rather see the no-shirts than the yellow, blue, red or green shirts..) - I just try to take an objective viewpoint here.

this is not a flame but seriously do you think anyone can take throwing siht seperated into different bags seriously, more like a shock and aaaaah reaction, with a follow up thought of they must be some real dumb shtis.

Yeah, bring back the good old days when the monks would pour gasoline over their bodies and light a match. I showed my GF the pictures of Siagon Monk suicides in the 60s and she admittedly was impressed but did comment that her people had a hard time doing without lunch.

[Pakboong]

And vote buying continues today by all political parties, so what is your point?

The point is the rest of the post.

"I know of dozens of people that took the easy credit, when the Thaskin government made it available, bought turcks, whiskey, and a few mia noi, never thinking about how to pay it back...When that land was taken for the loans not paid,,,who ultimatly made the profit...(I'll give you a hint...it was not a person in Thailand)."

Thaksin made easy credit available, and the cronies (rural "elite") made a fortune out of it.

Hmmm the bankers come to mind here. Not that much different than bailing out the banks in the US and Europe with tax dollars.

Just a slight twist to an old story.

And who owns all the banks?

Problems remains, none of the major players are Thais, they are all Chinese to include Thaskin. There can't be a win for the Thais if there is no Thai on the ballot so the elections will not matter.

[rametindallas]

Dr. Taksin shoots himself in foot with call in. http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/tan/ViewData...?DataID=1026349

Dr. Taksin say Abhisit shares mental disease with Hitler and is surrounded by homosexuals with mental problems.

[rametindallas]

http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/tan/ViewData...?DataID=1026348

UAE to Ban ThaksinUPDATE : 17 March 2010The United Arab Emirates has pledged to prohibit Thaksin from getting into their country and will arrest him as requested by the Thai government.

In addition, the United Arab Emirates will inform Montenegro that Thaksin's movements are politically motivated.

Assistant to Foreign Affairs Minister Phanit Wikitset revealed that the United Arab Emirates has vowed to prohibit the fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra from entering its soil, as Thaksin's remarks during the anti-government protest over the past few days are considered to be politically motivated.

The UAE insists that it will ban Thaksin from returning to Dubai on March 19 as he has had planned and will also explain that Thaksin's appearances via video-links are aimed at instigating chaos in Thailand from Montenegro.

Phanit said the UAE should arrest Thaksin if he does enter Dubai. He explained that not doing so could result in a negative image for the UAE.

Phanit added Thai staff are currently deployed in Dubai to handle the arrival of Thaksin.

The staff are to coordinate with the local UAE officials to extradite Thaksin back to Thailand immediately.

[britmaveric]

^sounds like more crap misinformation. UAE hasnt made any public statement to that.

[hardy1943]

The 'uneducated buffoons' are the product of successive governments' failure to invest in education. Now the elites are to some extent being bitten on the bum for their (deliberate) failure.

It's a great shame the elites do not and did not have the wit to realise that a well educated populace would create a much higher GDP and, while the said elites would probably get a smaller share of the pot, they would still be at least as well off as they are now.

Look at what happened in Spain after the Franco dictatorship was overthrown. Education (amongst other things) improved and the economy expanded massively. Everyone benefitted. No this is NOT comparing the current Thai gov.t with Franco's Spain; and no, I don't admire ex premier and convicted criminal Thaksin one little bit either.

Really who really cares yellow shirt red shirt we are all guest here.

When I came here in 2004 we called Thailand LOS on Thaivisa. We Yanks got about 42 Baht per US$, Germans about 52+ per Euro you Britts about73+ and Thai prices where about 33% then they are now. Now I have

to be scared to go to BKK, or lots of other places not back in 2004

I came here to retire and have a wonderful Thai wife and her relatives.

Most of you on this side must be Britts you just love this guy.

You must also love then to get 48 or next week 46 Baht per pound.

I like to spend the rest of my life here peacefully do not care who is in power, whish they quit name calling and fighting among brothers.Why not settle it and have an election 1 vote per person.Ah that maybe to easy and someone may loose.