Thai Protests Turn Bloody -- But Not Violent

[Netfan]

Precisely why. Their has not been a "Clear Political Program" for the Thais since this Gov. came to power by Coup means. This is what has occured in this instance because the peoplle have been abused to obtain riches via corruption and it was Taksin who was accused of this . Who is taking Thaksins place now?

Please provide details of how and when this government has abused the people to obtain riches via corruption- should make for interesting reading. Don't forget to provide names, dates, you know, facts.

[bulmercke]

In the late 1960's, after a picture of a young girl was on the pages of newspapers around the world showing her running while burning up from napalm, here, in my city, there was a protest. They held a vial of napalm and were threatening to pour it on a puppy. Yes, the vial did not contain any napalm; however, more people protested about the "threat" to a puppy than they did about the young, innocent girl. The point of this protest as theater was clear, no on gave a darn about a human being! Maybe, the Red Shirts learned from this, maybe they did not. Symbolically, they did what they felt that they had to do. The police allowed only 50 to approach the government offices to do this, which is laudable. I wish, at times, that here, in the US, the people would also be more active in exercising protests against some of the things that have gone on since 9/11. However, they have become complacent and, as a result, are losing to interests that have become stronger since then that do not represent them.

good on them and good on monks who dare to join protests against the government - they might become a new symbol of a fight against the injustice, as monks became symbols for the same ideas in the other countries (vietnam, myanmar)

rituals do play role in politics as well, but won't replace a rational, scientific education and a clear political program - for that we have to wait yet.

i'm sorry, i'm a bit intellectually handicapped, so please excuse my ignorance.

but as far as i can read your comments: to achieve democracy, it's fine for members of the sangha to transgress the Lord Buddha's vinayana? to achieve democracy, it's fine to let a hindu priest perform "rituals" & spill blood?

while, to achieve democracy, for you, it's fine "to wait yet" for a "clear political program"?

may i ask you, _what is "democracy"?_ as i said, i'm intellectually handicapped & i'd appreciate your answer.

Excellent point Anyse. But back to the present. Tomorrow the red shirts are marching up Sukhumvit Road to Soi 31. There are still several thousand reds remaining in BKK. As well as the attendant militants - the hard core. The chances of there being some kind of violent confrontation and stand off between the reds and locals is quite likely. If not sooner - then later in the day.

[ukrules]

The chances of there being some kind of violent confrontation and stand off between the reds and locals is quite likely. If not sooner - then later in the day.

Well I really hope they aren't too noisy if they come down Soi 23 on their way to/from the PM's house, it's only a couple of streets away from where I am and I plan on sleeping late tomorrow - I'm busy on the computer until very late tonight !

[basjke]

The chances of there being some kind of violent confrontation and stand off between the reds and locals is quite likely. If not sooner - then later in the day.

Well I really hope they aren't too noisy if they come down Soi 23 on their way to/from the PM's house, it's only a couple of streets away from where I am and I plan on sleeping late tomorrow - I'm busy on the computer until very late tonight !

Just go throw some blood yourself tonight and inform them about,problem solved.

[silk]

The chances of there being some kind of violent confrontation and stand off between the reds and locals is quite likely. If not sooner - then later in the day.

Well I really hope they aren't too noisy if they come down Soi 23 on their way to/from the PM's house, it's only a couple of streets away from where I am and I plan on sleeping late tomorrow - I'm busy on the computer until very late tonight !

If this is the only problem you have, you are the "LUCKY ONE"

[samesamebutdifferent]

Health officials, the Red Cross and even the protesters' figurehead, Mr Thaksin, expressed concern about how hygienic the mass blood donation was.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8569483.stm

[shawndoc]

Since this protest is supposed to by symbolic, why don't they do like other protesters around the world, and throw/pour red paint? More hygenic, harder to clean up. Same symbolism.

[shawndoc]

Double Post

Edited March 16, 2010 by shawndoc

[KKvampire]

it's not that often that protesters draw their blood (or go on a hunger strike or burn themselves - as Vietnamese monks did) to bring an attention of the world to their plea

To compare the situation with vietnam or even Mynamar is sickening. These Thai people have not had ANY Human rights violated, MIslead stupid and naive .

How interseting the Redshirt apolgists crawl out the sewer on this forum now.

[elcent]

Health officials, the Red Cross and even the protesters' figurehead, Mr Thaksin, expressed concern about how hygienic the mass blood donation was.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8569483.stm

not a bit of Thaksin's mentioning of what you claim. Are you in the damage control department from the reds?

[dukkha]

I find this quite repulsive,,it does nothing for Thailands image around the world.

Most thais do not have a sense of 'around the world', ask an Isaan farmer a geographical question outside of their immediate geographical boundaries and the response will be slow...not much curiosity needed in ones life when you are doing back breaking harvest work in rice fields from the age of 4 or 5 on your mothers back in the heat, cant afford to indulge in the body politik in the same way as we in the West do as a matter of daily chit and chat...but they do know something about distrubution of wealth and that essentially needs addressing....I built a modest house for my thai partner in his Roi Et village, I was welcomed of course, could not possibly live there personally but at least I know he has a roof over his head when I am dead and buried, spent many times in the village...saw the dire poverty, got to understand that the rice is grown for their consumption not to sell, maybe from time the sale of a buffalo got them through a hard time, yes I did provide small amounts of money but never on a regular basis nor through any demanding behaviour of these gentle people...poverty drives people to all kinds of behaviour, I am sure if I were black, in America, poor, I most likely would be dealing in illicit stuff....but not blood letting! Dukkha..

[tonglen]

Please provide details of how and when this government has abused the people to obtain riches via corruption- should make for interesting reading. Don't forget to provide names, dates, you know, facts.

No, Netfan, this government is perfect. We all know that.

It's all the other prior powers in this country that were criminal, but this one, this one is as pure as the wind driven snow......

[tonglen]

What image does Thailand have to lose?

to me... NONE.

but for those who believe at the fake historical that the people is good and friendly, this blood poured is shocking...

black magic and macabre rituals are a part of thai "culture"..

video not suitable for weak-stomached

Thank you SO, SO MUCH janderton, you douche-lord, for posting that sick twist video. I'll be trying to extricate it from my head for the next, say, 2 years or so.

Im so glad I got the opportunity of seeing a baby chopped up into tiny pieces. My day is now ruined, so thanks for that.

I'm sure we all know what a snuff film, but do you have to SEE ONE to know they exist? I dont think so.

I believe I speak for several others with the request to keep that in your personal collection of posthumous cinematic rubbish...

[khunjamespittman]

Do you suppose those same donors would be prepared to give blood at a Red Cross or hospital donation day in order to save lives, a rhetorical question.

I am very disappointed and I am always surprised how people hide in the shadws of the internet and hurl insults at people they have never met and do not know. That is the lowest level of character assassination. It is disgraceful.

Given you have such a low opinion for a whole group of the Thai population, I have a rhetorical question.

What have you ever done to help Thailand live in peace and prosper and what have you ever done to improve the lives of the underpriviliged and disenfranchised citizens of Thailand so that they might increase their contribution to Thailand make it a better place for all people? Also how often do you donate blood at you local hospital?

[wolf5370]

Do you suppose those same donors would be prepared to give blood at a Red Cross or hospital donation day in order to save lives, a rhetorical question.

I am very disappointed and I am always surprised how people hide in the shadws of the internet and hurl insults at people they have never met and do not know. That is the lowest level of character assassination. It is disgraceful.

Given you have such a low opinion for a whole group of the Thai population, I have a rhetorical question.

What have you ever done to help Thailand live in peace and prosper and what have you ever done to improve the lives of the underpriviliged and disenfranchised citizens of Thailand so that they might increase their contribution to Thailand make it a better place for all people? Also how often do you donate blood at you local hospital?

Where was the insult? Where was the character assassination? He asked a question I imagine most of us were thinking; he did not make a judgement or a damning accusation, he merely "voiced" a question. His question had to be rhetorical as its pretty unlikely we know the 10,000 odd donators well enough to give accurate answers, thus most likely these answers would have been mostly those very unfair insulting comments that you accused him of. Your questions though (though you only say one is rhetorical???) is personal, and therefore needs not be rhetorical as he is here and can answer it for you. Or is there a worry his answer may damage your (very weak) point?

Edited March 16, 2010 by wolf5370

[Thai at Heart]

A truly bizarre ritual, but in terms of marketing probably quite a story. Not that I condone this sort of thing in the slightest. Who the hel_l was handling that stuff in plastic bottles without gloves on?

Thailand has made it to the front pages of quite a few news organisations once again. Most around the world didn't have a clue that there was a protest going on in Bangkok. Now they know, and instead of the normal potted headlines about riots and gunshots, they have the images of an apparent spilling of blood in the name of democracy. Very clever.

The PAD succeeded because of ASTV. The 24 hour coverage of the speeches and continual analysis of the situation was Sondhi's masterstroke that allowed the protests to continue and eventually succeed. It would appear that the reds have taken a small leaf out his book and realised that if you can't succeed 100% making a good photo opportunity is the next best thing.

[davee58]

Do you suppose those same donors would be prepared to give blood at a Red Cross or hospital donation day in order to save lives, a rhetorical question.

I am very disappointed and I am always surprised how people hide in the shadws of the internet and hurl insults at people they have never met and do not know. That is the lowest level of character assassination. It is disgraceful.

Given you have such a low opinion for a whole group of the Thai population, I have a rhetorical question.

What have you ever done to help Thailand live in peace and prosper and what have you ever done to improve the lives of the underpriviliged and disenfranchised citizens of Thailand so that they might increase their contribution to Thailand make it a better place for all people? Also how often do you donate blood at you local hospital?

???

I hope you understand your point Mr Pittman.

Edited March 16, 2010 by davee58

[khunjamespittman]

Do you suppose those same donors would be prepared to give blood at a Red Cross or hospital donation day in order to save lives, a rhetorical question.

I am very disappointed and I am always surprised how people hide in the shadws of the internet and hurl insults at people they have never met and do not know. That is the lowest level of character assassination. It is disgraceful.

Given you have such a low opinion for a whole group of the Thai population, I have a rhetorical question.

What have you ever done to help Thailand live in peace and prosper and what have you ever done to improve the lives of the underpriviliged and disenfranchised citizens of Thailand so that they might increase their contribution to Thailand make it a better place for all people? Also how often do you donate blood at you local hospital?

Where was the insult? Where was the character assassination? He asked a question I imagine most of us were thinking; he did not make a judgement or a damning accusation, he merely "voiced" a question. His question had to be rhetorical as its pretty unlikely we know the 10,000 odd donators well enough to give accurate answers, thus most likely these answers would have been mostly those very unfair insulting comments that you accused him of. Your questions though (though you only say one is rhetorical???) is personal, and therefore needs not be rhetorical as he is here and can answer it for you. Or is there a worry his answer may damage your (very weak) point?

Using the "rhetorical" question was clearly an insinuation that the people who gave blood would not do the same to save lives.

The is just a another example of using thinly veiled insinuation. How many people do you expect to be fooled by such absurd rationale?

[wolf5370]

Do you suppose those same donors would be prepared to give blood at a Red Cross or hospital donation day in order to save lives, a rhetorical question.

I am very disappointed and I am always surprised how people hide in the shadws of the internet and hurl insults at people they have never met and do not know. That is the lowest level of character assassination. It is disgraceful.

Given you have such a low opinion for a whole group of the Thai population, I have a rhetorical question.

What have you ever done to help Thailand live in peace and prosper and what have you ever done to improve the lives of the underpriviliged and disenfranchised citizens of Thailand so that they might increase their contribution to Thailand make it a better place for all people? Also how often do you donate blood at you local hospital?

Where was the insult? Where was the character assassination? He asked a question I imagine most of us were thinking; he did not make a judgement or a damning accusation, he merely "voiced" a question. His question had to be rhetorical as its pretty unlikely we know the 10,000 odd donators well enough to give accurate answers, thus most likely these answers would have been mostly those very unfair insulting comments that you accused him of. Your questions though (though you only say one is rhetorical???) is personal, and therefore needs not be rhetorical as he is here and can answer it for you. Or is there a worry his answer may damage your (very weak) point?

Using the "rhetorical" question was clearly an insinuation that the people who gave blood would not do the same to save lives.

The is just a another example of using thinly veiled insinuation. How many people do you expect to be fooled by such absurd rationale?

That's one way of looking at it, but another is how I looked at it: You don't get 10,000 people queing up to donate at blood drives, but to throw it on the floor and low and behold a queue. I still don't see it as an insult, veiled, insinuated, implied or otherwise, I see it as a thought provoking quandry. What is clear, at least to me, was that the question was posed to make us consider the otherside of the coin - as I said, with regard to donating when it actually matters in a real sense (rather than a symbolic gesture). If he had answered his own question, or gone on to slag them off, them I would agree with you, but he didn't.

[huanga]

If they want symbolism, how about try "March For Social Justice", so they can go marching on home. But how about the justice for this country, especially in the international arena? Enough of this already! Tourism is getting dragged down, economy is still kicking, but a prolonged stand-off like this will definitely start to affect it. Then, how about the justice for those who see neither red nor yellow but just trying to make an honest living?

There are many other ways to make a point of their plight, but just not at the expense of this country and its people!

[invex]

Just watched channel 3 this morning and look.....

The head-monk from SriBunruang Temple was throwing blood (collected from the red shirts) at the soldiers at Kavila military base near the Ping River.

This is not real and can happen in Thailand only.

Bah. I hope this will make the world news.

[CLOD]

I reckon the Reds have won the propoganda war about things.Lots of international media and air time.

I just hope they can now disperse and keep it peaceful, point having been clearly made.Unelected government crying wolf.

Was a bit flumoxed about the blood letting but see it has a place in thai thinking.

Just hope Obama explains to abisit what a democracy is, and tells him where to get off with his coup-issued law,thats if he still visits.

Expect abisit is feeling rather shameful at the moment.

Nice effort The Reds..( The Rural Electoral Democracy Supporters ).

[Acharn]

good on them and good on monks who dare to join protests against the government - they might become a new symbol of a fight against the injustice, as monks became symbols for the same ideas in the other countries (vietnam, myanmar)

rituals do play role in politics as well, but won't replace a rational, scientific education and a clear political program - for that we have to wait yet.

Well, I tend to favor the UDD over PAD, but I've been here a while and when I see monks getting involved I remember one, Phra Kittiwutthi, back during the early 1970's, who preached that killing a Communist was not a sin according to Buddhism. He was one of the forces leading to the massacre of students in October 1976. Then again, Sulak Sivaraksa reported that Phra Kittiwutthi later said that his personal feelings for his country were more important to him than his Buddhist practice, so go figure.

[mcfester]

may i ask you, _what is "democracy"?_ as i said, i'm intellectually handicapped & i'd appreciate your answer.

Democracy is voting a goverment into power, then protesting to overthrow said goverment, voting a new goverment into power then protesting to overthrow said goverment, and the game continues. Forget the 4 year rule, thai style democracy rocks.

[petebkk]

Do you suppose those same donors would be prepared to give blood at a Red Cross or hospital donation day in order to save lives, a rhetorical question.

I would imagine they would do it, if needed - as they did today

You didnt understand the word rhetorical? and why would a Hindu Brahmin be laying a curse, when 20,000 good Bhuddist monks were alleged to be protesting?

A rhetorical question does not seek an answer; it's a statement in the form of a question. That's from my high school English class.

Cheers!

[Acharn]

it's not that often that protesters draw their blood (or go on a hunger strike or burn themselves - as Vietnamese monks did) to bring an attention of the world to their plea

To compare the situation with vietnam or even Mynamar is sickening. These Thai people have not had ANY Human rights violated, MIslead stupid and naive .

How interseting the Redshirt apolgists crawl out the sewer on this forum now.

Bwaahaahaahaa! Haven't been here long, have you? Although it's true things aren't as bad here as in Myanmar, certainly not as bad as in South Vietnam during the American occupation, there are and have been problems. And "Redshirt apolgists [sic]"? What are you, the defender of the monarchy, the religion, and the state?

[jonclark]

The only ironic think about the airport saga is that the Samak government didn't prosecute the yellow leaders, but now the democrates are in power, the new manifestation of the old regime demands the dems do what they didn't. That's irony. On the subject of political terrorism it maybe worth getting the opinion of the Vietnamese FM on that as he was whicked away from the ASEAN summit last year as the reds stormed the hotel.

But thisthread isn't about the past it's about the present. The Reds were completely outthought both politically and strategically - end of story.

PS - I support neither red nor yellow as I have no vote. I'm just expressing what i have seen.

This was basically a publicity stunt to try to save face - The PM to his credit handled the whole situation calmly and simply rode out the storm, the media whipped itself into a frenzy, schools closed and people stocked up on food, water and beer fearing and impending crisis.

The Reds have been more than defeated they have been humiliated and humbled by the sheer stupidity and lack of planning by their leaders.

This blood ritual is simply a prank to gain publicity and to allow them to have closure on their terms, stagger off and lick their wounds and wait for the election when they will have another opportunity to test the water and see if they actually have the support they believe they have.

Personally I think this demonstration has made the government look better than it has in a while and made the reds and their political allies look like complete <deleted>.

And for all those constant whiners who complain that this isn't a legitimate government - well the lack of popular support spoke volumes about the view of the majority on that issue. An illegitimate government - debatable yes, but get use to it until the next set of elections cause it ain't going anywhere.

Personally I shocked to think that his majesty is sick in hospital and this fiasco goes on.

Would you rather the reds committed an act of political terrorism such as closing the airports as this governments yellow shirted friends did? This protest has been a peaceful one full credit to the Reds for that but they probably wont get what they want because they are acting within the law....rather ironic isnt it?

The real "irony" Jon, is your poor grasp of history. Who was the PM, during the airport fiasco? A mind is a terrible thing to waste...

Indeed it is which is why I feel so at home here on TV.

Apologies - we go through PM quicker than the Italians and sometimes it's hard to keep up. I think the point is still valid, that Somchai (like Samak) were of the same political persuasion and creed and would be typically painted as 'red' with the same master, and being leaders of parties that are reincarnations of TRT.

Either way 'red' politicians had their chance to prosecute their political foes when they were in power and bottled it. Now they expect the democrates to do what they lacked the courage or political will to. That smacks of a double standard if ever i heard one.

I think it's time for all people in this country to let past events be water under the bridge and like the silent majority, get on with our lives and wait for the elections.

[boggzzy]

Do you suppose those same donors would be prepared to give blood at a Red Cross or hospital donation day in order to save lives, a rhetorical question.

I would imagine they would do it, if needed - as they did today

I would hope they would, but I highly doubt it

Today was not a blood donation in the correct sense.

It was a total waist of time and serves zero purpose.

The red shirt leaders are making themselves laughing

stocks inside and outside of Thailand.

i Agree Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha... do these red shirts think the Poeple of the world cant tell the diference between blood and food dye( you cant see through blood) just take a look at the bottle being tipped on the floor. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

[brahmburgers]

first urine & feces, then blood, what bodily fluid is next? ....semen or phlegm ?

Do you suppose those same donors would be prepared to give blood at a Red Cross or hospital donation day in order to save lives, a rhetorical question.

I would imagine they would do it, if needed - as they did today

You didnt understand the word rhetorical? and why would a Hindu Brahmin be laying a curse, when 20,000 good Buddhist monks were alleged to be protesting?

The 20,000 monks promised didn't show, which is a credit to them sticking with their religious duties and not getting involved with political maneuverings. However, why do we all of a sudden get a Hindu Brahmin in on the act? He not only sullies his hands (literally) but he sullies the reputation of Brahmins in general.

We know Thai style Buddhism and Hindu Brahmins are indelibly entwined with hocus pocus superstitions ad nauseum, but do they have to make such a silly show of it on the world stage?

I just spoke on the phone with a suicidal Canadian who deeply believes (and is haunted by the thought that) a couple women are responsible for a back problem he suffered years ago. He got on a public bus they recommended he take. The bus crashed. The Canadian suffered a back injury. Hence, he thinks the women purposefully put him on that bus in order for him to suffer that injury. The extent of hocus pocus beliefs is ludicrously widespread - in N.America, In Asia, and everywhere there are people. Get real people! Science and Nature are real. Metaphysics, esoteric bliefs, paranormal, astrology, religion, ....they're all hocus pocus! The sooner people can sweep such beliefs out of their minds, the sooner they can get on to enjoying their lives.

If someone pours human blood on my porch, it's a safety hazard, a mess, and it's rude. No more, no less.

If the blood pouring happened in the States, the perpetrators would be fined for illegal trash dumping.

Edited March 17, 2010 by brahmburgers

[Thai at Heart]

first urine & feces, then blood, what bodily fluid is next? ....semen or phlegm ?

The 20,000 monks promised didn't show, which is a credit to them sticking with their religious duties and not getting involved with political maneuverings. However, why do we all of a sudden get a Hindu Brahmin in on the act? He not only sullies his hands (literally) but he sullies the reputation of Brahmins in general.

We know Thai style Buddhism and Hindu Brahmins are indelibly entwined with hocus pocus superstitions ad nauseum, but do they have to make such a silly show of it on the world stage?

I just spoke on the phone with a suicidal Canadian who deeply believes (and is haunted by the thought that) a couple women are responsible for a back problem he suffered years ago. He got on a public bus they recommended he take. The bus crashed. The Canadian suffered a back injury. Hence, he thinks the women purposefully put him on that bus in order for him to suffer that injury. The extent of hocus pocus beliefs is ludicrously widespread - in N.America, In Asia, and everywhere there are people. Get real people! Science and Nature are real. Metaphysics, esoteric bliefs, paranormal, astrology, religion, ....they're all hocus pocus! The sooner people can sweep such beliefs out of their minds, the sooner they can get on to enjoying their lives.

If someone pours human blood on my porch, it's a safety hazard, a mess, and it's rude. No more, no less.

If the blood pouring happened in the States, the perpetrators would be fined for illegal trash dumping.

The problem is, that more than a few Thai's will see some kind of meaning behind this so called "hocus-pocus". As much as this was intended as a photo op for the international press, the reality is that it will have a lot of meaning for Thais. A lot of them truly believe in this stuff.

Don't forget though that this superstition is part and parcel of the Thai identity. Love it or loathe it, they are what they are. That said, how many people munch on a piece of rice paper and sip on wine every Sunday in symbolic worship.