Thaksin Draws Comparison Between Abhisit And Hitler

[LuckyFive8888]

At least Thaksin came to power legitimate

yes, buying votes in thailand is good investment.

[Arkady]

how to become a "Persona non grata" in germany?

Comparing PM´s with Hitler.....

The prat is already persona non grata in Germany for obtaining a one year visa by deception which means he is automatically banned from all Schengen visa countries. His press release about meeting up with his daughters in Germany was just more fantasy from his warped mind for the consumption of his ignorant paid supporters or perhaps he thought he could slip in under an assumed name on one of his passports of convenience.

Edited March 19, 2010 by Arkady

[Ijustwannateach]

I greatly hesitate to go back through this thread (as it seems inevitable that I must), but it does seem that there is a growing hate-speech trend against gays in speech by representatives of the anti-government group. It is ironically the same sort of fascist anti-minority hate-talk that Hitler himself used against various groups (including gays). Unfortunately, most of the market for this sort of hate speech has been linked by research to groups of low educational background, so they mostly wouldn't be aware how stupid such statements were.

[IvanDobsky]

interesting,

I didn't realise he was barred by all Schengen countries.

That's more than a few.

You have to love Latin. Persona non grata, indeed:

unwanted, unwelcome, unpopular, unaccepted

I regret at least some of those are false in the north and east

how to become a "Persona non grata" in germany?

Comparing PM´s with Hitler.....

The prat is already persona non grata in Germany for obtaining a one year visa by deception which means he is automatically banned from all Schengen visa countries. His press release about meeting up with his daughters in Germany was just more fantasy from his warped mind for the consumption of his ignorant paid supporters or perhaps he thought he could slip in under an assumed name on one of his passports of convenience.

[ThaksinKharma]

I greatly hesitate to go back through this thread (as it seems inevitable that I must), but it does seem that there is a growing hate-speech trend against gays in speech by representatives of the anti-government group. It is ironically the same sort of fascist anti-minority hate-talk that Hitler himself used against various groups (including gays). Unfortunately, most of the market for this sort of hate speech has been linked by research to groups of low educational background, so they mostly wouldn't be aware how stupid such statements were.

Unfortunately for Thailand, he knows his target audience.

[geriatrickid]

The topic is Thaksin and what he said. Just for once, it would be nice for you to address him and his words / actions, without bringing other people into it. It's nothing more than your usual feeble attempt to deflect away and play down the words / actions of one man, and spread the blame out as far and wide as you can.

I did reply and pointed out that the english translation being used to support the condemnation is inaccurate and then gave an explanation, which you ignored. I stated the actual milder comments were still inappropriate. I am not spreading the blame but am putting the comments in context. Mr. Thaksin's position is less hostile than the views held by the people that currently hold sway over the current government. These are the views held by a great many of the powerful people in Thailand. Does this make you uncomfortable?

Here's an example; Last week, a major Thai newspaper published an opinion piece by Sanitsuda Ekachai. The article profiled Yolada Komklong and her fight against discrimination. Her group has fought hard against the the stigma of mental disorder as practiced by the Thai military. The group took the military to court for dismissing katoeys from the military draft by branding them as being afflicted with "permanent mental disorder", which consequently destroyed their future job opportunties. The military may have suspended using this term but the discrimination against gays and transgenders continues.

So, where were you in that fight? The current government of Mr. Abhisit was not an intervening party. Does that make Mr. Abhisit as bad as Mr. Thaksin? I don't think so. It's just the way it is in Thailand.

That was very weak, sorry. Given the context of the violent anti-gay hate group, the Chiang Mai 51 pro Thaksin reds, you simply cannot dismiss these comments with all Thais hate gays.

A group claiming they support Mr. Thaksin doesn't mean Mr. Thaksin supports the group's position on social policy. Would you accuse the supporters of Manchester United of being National Front supporters, because some National Front members support the club? As much as it may upset you, I think that you will find that many people opposed to the "Reds" political views supported the resistance to a gay parade. This vocal group got away with what it did because it had enough support across political lines to let them run amuck. It's not specific to thailand. Look at some of the various interest groups that support political parties. A good example of this are the Log Cabin Rebublicans (gays) and some very scary religious groups that consider being gay an abomination. They belong to the same party and yet they are enemies on some social issues.. That is political reality.

Unfortunately for Thailand, he knows his target audience.

Yes, and it's not the people some may be so quick to assume. Mr. Thaksin's comments are now intended to convince the "middle class" and the junior ranks of the military that he speaks for them and that he is trying to protect the traditional values.

Whether the strategy will work, or if he is sincere, that is a different issue, but the intent is to reach out to his non core support and to build.

[ThaksinKharma]

Unfortunately, most of the market for this sort of hate speech has been linked by research to groups of low educational background, so they mostly wouldn't be aware how stupid such statements were.

Unfortunately for Thailand, he knows his target audience.

Yes, and it's not the people some may be so quick to assume.

Thaksin's comments are now intended to convince the "middle class" and the junior ranks of the military that he speaks for them and that he is trying to protect the traditional values.

Whether the strategy will work, or if he is sincere, that is a different issue, but the intent is to reach out to his non core support and to build.

Problem for him is that there is a much higher percentage of uneducated amongst his core group and so the number of ignorant homophobes who will react positively to his slams is much less in other groups. There's a "diminishing return" on his investment in hate speech.

[rixalex]

The topic is Thaksin and what he said. Just for once, it would be nice for you to address him and his words / actions, without bringing other people into it. It's nothing more than your usual feeble attempt to deflect away and play down the words / actions of one man, and spread the blame out as far and wide as you can.

I did reply and pointed out that the english translation being used to support the condemnation is inaccurate and then gave an explanation, which you ignored. I stated the actual milder comments were still inappropriate.

I have seen with my own eyes and listened with my own ears to what Thaksin said. I read your comments about your feeling that the English translation was inaccurate, but you didn't state how, you simply told us how you had interpretted his words. Perhaps if you told us specifically what part of the translation you feel is inaccurate it might be easier to comment.

Edited March 20, 2010 by rixalex

[rixalex]

I am not spreading the blame but am putting the comments in context. Mr. Thaksin's position is less hostile than the views held by the people that currently hold sway over the current government. These are the views held by a great many of the powerful people in Thailand. Does this make you uncomfortable?

You are not putting Thaksin's comments in context whatsoever. All you are doing is scrambling around, trying to find examples of other people who might share his ignorance. Not that i deny those people exist, nor do i think they shouldn't be condemned in equal measure, but this thread is about what Thaksin said. What other people might have said, what other people might think, is not what we are discussing and nor is it any justification.

[hammered]

When under pressure Thaksin says things he may well have rather not said when looking back.Wew saw that at Songkhran with the revolution stuff. This may just be another example of it. Who knows.

Edited to add: Hitler comparisons that both extremes have used are silly and homphobic stuff is not nice even if reflective of certain peoples thinking in society

Edited March 20, 2010 by hammered

[rixalex]

A group claiming they support Mr. Thaksin doesn't mean Mr. Thaksin supports the group's position on social policy. Would you accuse the supporters of Manchester United of being National Front supporters, because some National Front members support the club?

If Thaksin didn't support this group's actions that claimed to be fighting on his behalf then he should have made a very clear statement at the time condemning their actions and disassociating himself with them. I don't ever recall him doing so.

[rixalex]

Hitler comparisons that both extremes have used are silly

Out of interest, outside of internet forums, who besides Thaksin has been making Hitler comparisons?

[hammered]

Hitler comparisons that both extremes have used are silly

Out of interest, outside of internet forums, who besides Thaksin has been making Hitler comparisons?

PAD or some bit of it went there

[dukkha]

From my home in Australia after 9 years in Thailand I am reading this thread...all those years of reading about the tolerance of Thai Society with regard to Homosexuality, the lack of homophobia etc....well it seems to be a different story....maybe am lucky to be back home, albeit ill, but luckily got my partner here yesterday for 6 months, buddha be praised...I have not read the thread extensively but was taken by the sub title which prompted me to make comment...a bit of a worry, maybe....and all those years of struggle in the gay liberation movement across the world.... Dukkha

[Tony121]

how are you absolutely sure are you a doctor ?

[yoshiwara]

I have a question for the forum Thaksin apologists.

Since Thaksin appears to have said that:

'Abhisit is surrounded by homosexuals with emotional problems'.

Does this mean that Thaksin thinks that:

1. All homosexuals have emotional problems, or

2. Abhisit is surrounding himself with the wrong type of homosexuals or

3. He (Thaksin) is trying to be helpful and would like to offer support from red homosexuals who do not have emotional problems.

Thaksin's fashion advice for 2010 Spring Season outfits: Red is not the new pink.

[Jingthing]

I have a question for the forum Thaksin apologists.

Since Thaksin appears to have said that:

'Abhisit is surrounded by homosexuals with emotional problems'.

Does this mean that Thaksin thinks that:

1. All homosexuals have emotional problems, or

2. Abhisit is surrounding himself with the wrong type of homosexuals or

3. He (Thaksin) is trying to be helpful and would like to offer support from red homosexuals who do not have emotional problems.

Thaksin's fashion advice for 2010 Spring Season outfits: Red is not the new pink.

1. The reds are using anti-gay hatred to promote their political goals, like the US republican party, like the Nazis, like Fidel Castro, like so many others.

Edited March 21, 2010 by Jingthing

[Ijustwannateach]

When under pressure Thaksin says things he may well have rather not said when looking back.Wew saw that at Songkhran with the revolution stuff. This may just be another example of it. Who knows.

Edited to add: Hitler comparisons that both extremes have used are silly and homphobic stuff is not nice even if reflective of certain peoples thinking in society

Slightly off-topic, but you may not be aware that Hitler persecuted, imprisoned, tortured, and killed gay people in the same camps with the Jews (you should probably look up the history of the pink triangle). Using anti-gay propaganda to promote a political agenda is definitely along the same fascist lines. It is a very dangerous and irresponsible choice for someone with his financial and political influence to go in those directions- and if he is not in control of what he says, then why would any reasonable person want him in charge? I prefer my political leaders to have intelligence, self-control and restraint.

Since this type of comment has arisen several times, I once again must regard the anti-government groups as trying to promote fascist anti-gay tendencies, which is extremely worrying- fortunately, it is unlikely that most of the population shares their views, but as Germany itself showed (in changing from one of the world's most socially, sexually liberal states to one of the most fascist in the leadup to the Reich), things can change very quickly, especially when economic times get tough- and with the drought and subsequent food shortage coming, people will be looking for vulnerable, accessible scapegoats.

I suggest foreigners.

(^yes, I'm just kidding, but it may make those of you who are downplaying the anti-gay rhetoric think closer to home).

[gregb]

When under pressure Thaksin says things he may well have rather not said when looking back.Wew saw that at Songkhran with the revolution stuff. This may just be another example of it. Who knows.

Edited to add: Hitler comparisons that both extremes have used are silly and homphobic stuff is not nice even if reflective of certain peoples thinking in society

Slightly off-topic, but you may not be aware that Hitler persecuted, imprisoned, tortured, and killed gay people in the same camps with the Jews (you should probably look up the history of the pink triangle). Using anti-gay propaganda to promote a political agenda is definitely along the same fascist lines. It is a very dangerous and irresponsible choice for someone with his financial and political influence to go in those directions- and if he is not in control of what he says, then why would any reasonable person want him in charge? I prefer my political leaders to have intelligence, self-control and restraint.

Since this type of comment has arisen several times, I once again must regard the anti-government groups as trying to promote fascist anti-gay tendencies, which is extremely worrying- fortunately, it is unlikely that most of the population shares their views, but as Germany itself showed (in changing from one of the world's most socially, sexually liberal states to one of the most fascist in the leadup to the Reich), things can change very quickly, especially when economic times get tough- and with the drought and subsequent food shortage coming, people will be looking for vulnerable, accessible scapegoats.

I suggest foreigners.

(^yes, I'm just kidding, but it may make those of you who are downplaying the anti-gay rhetoric think closer to home).

I'm not sure your comment is so far fetched.

Again, if you look at the mannerisms that Thaksin has used in order to gain acceptance by his supporters, they exactly fit the definition of a demagogue. The ancient Athenians first identified this type of dangerous personality 5000 years ago. Hitler was the quintessential demagogue. That does not mean Thaksin is going to brutally murder 6 million people, but it does mean that the way he approaches the problems of gaining support has already been, and is likely to continue to be, extremely similar.

I have often commented that foreigners would make an excellent outlet for this irrational emotional sentiment, the same way jews were made a target during Nazi Germany. It may not come to pass, but people would be foolish to discount this out of hand. There are some very eerie parallels, and the fact that it could happen should give every one of us here pause. There were many Jews who believed Hitler could not possibly do what he did either. They generally paid for this incredulity with their lives. I personally don't believe we are truly at risk for this unless Thailand undergoes a serious economic downturn, but I'm not entirely convinced that can be avoided right now either. These ongoing political issues don't help.

I am not saying Thaksin is equivalent to Hitler. I am saying his personality type is the same as Hitler, as evidenced by the way he incites the passions of his followers. The kinds of actions that Thaksin takes match the kinds of actions that Hitler took. The gay bashing is only a very small aperture in a larger coherent picture. And that personality type is dangerous, and has been for millenia. Do not discount what this man is capable of. He isn't there yet, but he could be, and we as the foreign community would be foolish not to at least take notice of this.

I could never support the reds as long as they continue supporting this demagogue. Thaksin scares me in a way I can't relate in words. He is a horrible man. You may be joking ijustwannateach. But I noticed the parallels way back in 2002, and I am deeply afraid.

Some of you have commented elsewhere that you don't approve of the vitriol that I use to describe Thaksin. But that vitriol comes from a very real, very serious, and very rational fear of what this man could do to me, my family, and my life in Thailand if he were to regain power. ijustwannateach articulated in a joking manner what to me is not a joking matter at all.

[Jingthing]

As an added note on this topic, the demagogue leftist populist of Venezuela, Sr. Chavez who has many times been compared to Thaksin, is a rabid anti-semite and used that to further his political agenda. Yes there are Jews in Venezuela and things have become very unpleasant for them.

Juan Peron of Argentina, yet another populist compared even more frequently to Thaksin, was a Nazi sympathizer with fascist leanings.

I agree Thaksin is a very dangerous man. I am disappointed that so many westerners who entertain supporting him apparently skipped history class.

Edited March 21, 2010 by Jingthing

[yoshiwara]

Someone on the forum (I forget whom) made the interesting comment that Thaksin has the habit of accusing political enemies of the crime he has/is/will commit.

Thaksin's diatribe accusing Abhisit of being Hitlerian and being under the thumb of deranged pinkies is a case in point.

Thaksin knows that for all his rantings about class war, his actual class base is limited and his strategy limiting.

If he was pushing his forces as socialist (social democrat) he would be allied with the trade unions.

If he was pushing his forces as communist he would have cells in the organised working class.

He has neither.

Nor does he intend to.

He is about as left-wing as my aunt Sally.

However some of the historical forces of national socialism are of interest to him:

populism, the petty-bourgeoisie and the lumpen proletariat.

Now, one of the unifying themes to bringing these disparate elements together, namely anti-Semitism is not available today.

There are very few Jews in Thailand.

There are however, significant numbers of gays.

Gay bashing is the glue to hold together the Thaksin alliance.

What he is building might call itself red,

but in reality Thaksin is aiming for a red-brown alliance.

Believe it.

Edited March 21, 2010 by yoshiwara

[CLOD]

Abisit and Hitler in the same company.

Wonder how Hitler would have taken it.

[LuckyFive8888]

these guys can't be serious! they are having a good time while preaching and humiliating their anemies... funny jokers!

[BigWheelMan]

I don`t see the point of Thaksin making comparisons between Abhisit and Hitler, as most of Thaksin`s supporters are too uneducated to know who was Hitler or what he stood for.

[LuckyFive8888]

I'm sure Thaksin himself doesn't know about Hitler, otherwise he won't even think to compare Hitler with any Thai politicians.

[koosdeboer]

When under pressure Thaksin says things he may well have rather not said when looking back.Wew saw that at Songkhran with the revolution stuff. This may just be another example of it. Who knows.

Edited to add: Hitler comparisons that both extremes have used are silly and homphobic stuff is not nice even if reflective of certain peoples thinking in society

Slightly off-topic, but you may not be aware that Hitler persecuted, imprisoned, tortured, and killed gay people in the same camps with the Jews (you should probably look up the history of the pink triangle). Using anti-gay propaganda to promote a political agenda is definitely along the same fascist lines. It is a very dangerous and irresponsible choice for someone with his financial and political influence to go in those directions- and if he is not in control of what he says, then why would any reasonable person want him in charge? I prefer my political leaders to have intelligence, self-control and restraint.

Since this type of comment has arisen several times, I once again must regard the anti-government groups as trying to promote fascist anti-gay tendencies, which is extremely worrying- fortunately, it is unlikely that most of the population shares their views, but as Germany itself showed (in changing from one of the world's most socially, sexually liberal states to one of the most fascist in the leadup to the Reich), things can change very quickly, especially when economic times get tough- and with the drought and subsequent food shortage coming, people will be looking for vulnerable, accessible scapegoats.

I suggest foreigners.

(^yes, I'm just kidding, but it may make those of you who are downplaying the anti-gay rhetoric think closer to home).

I'm not sure your comment is so far fetched.

Again, if you look at the mannerisms that Thaksin has used in order to gain acceptance by his supporters, they exactly fit the definition of a demagogue. The ancient Athenians first identified this type of dangerous personality 5000 years ago. Hitler was the quintessential demagogue. That does not mean Thaksin is going to brutally murder 6 million people, but it does mean that the way he approaches the problems of gaining support has already been, and is likely to continue to be, extremely similar.

I have often commented that foreigners would make an excellent outlet for this irrational emotional sentiment, the same way jews were made a target during Nazi Germany. It may not come to pass, but people would be foolish to discount this out of hand. There are some very eerie parallels, and the fact that it could happen should give every one of us here pause. There were many Jews who believed Hitler could not possibly do what he did either. They generally paid for this incredulity with their lives. I personally don't believe we are truly at risk for this unless Thailand undergoes a serious economic downturn, but I'm not entirely convinced that can be avoided right now either. These ongoing political issues don't help.

I am not saying Thaksin is equivalent to Hitler. I am saying his personality type is the same as Hitler, as evidenced by the way he incites the passions of his followers. The kinds of actions that Thaksin takes match the kinds of actions that Hitler took. The gay bashing is only a very small aperture in a larger coherent picture. And that personality type is dangerous, and has been for millenia. Do not discount what this man is capable of. He isn't there yet, but he could be, and we as the foreign community would be foolish not to at least take notice of this.

I could never support the reds as long as they continue supporting this demagogue. Thaksin scares me in a way I can't relate in words. He is a horrible man. You may be joking ijustwannateach. But I noticed the parallels way back in 2002, and I am deeply afraid.

Some of you have commented elsewhere that you don't approve of the vitriol that I use to describe Thaksin. But that vitriol comes from a very real, very serious, and very rational fear of what this man could do to me, my family, and my life in Thailand if he were to regain power. ijustwannateach articulated in a joking manner what to me is not a joking matter at all.

I agree, I'm also scared of Taksin. I feer that there will be blood on the streets if he returns to Thailand as the dear leader and it won't be his.

[ballpoint]

I don`t see the point of Thaksin making comparisons between Abhisit and Hitler, as most of Thaksin`s supporters are too uneducated to know who was Hitler or what he stood for.

Most of Thaksin's supporters are too uneducated to know who Thaksin really is or what he stands for.

[yoshiwara]

I don`t see the point of Thaksin making comparisons between Abhisit and Hitler, as most of Thaksin`s supporters are too uneducated to know who was Hitler or what he stood for.

Most of Thaksin's supporters are too uneducated to know who Thaksin really is or what he stands for.

The accusation was primarily for the benefit of getting international sympathy and support.

ie that Thaksin was leading a liberation struggle (don't laugh)

[chefshane]

How embarrassing. Talk about losing face, Takki just lost the whole head.

Which is a feat, you must admit.

It's a big bloody head!

[yoochoo]

the government bribed people to leave the rally???

how about the the money thaksin paid the protesters to show up?

without HIS bribes no one would have shown up in the first place anyway.

he's just proven once more that he's a loser. bye bye thaksin

well, i think we are losing the plot of whats going on here...there are no bribes to get the red shirts to protest. it is not about t coming back to be prime minister it is about the PEOPLE and there right to a fair election, one which they vote for who they want... yes thaksin has had some speeches but if you fully understand it isn't about him it is about the people. Since the coup the army has never given up control for the governement only for a short period of time till they got abhisit to be the puppet and now he is just the front to what basically is military control.

So yeh i agree with the people he needs to come out of government and give the people there rights to vote!