Thai Red Shirts Declare 'Class War'

[steveromagnino]

Well if Abhisit REALLY implements free education for all thais till 15 years then he has my gf's vote

Just how old is your girlfriend?

42 , why ?

I was pulling your leg. Childish English style humour. It's easy to forget the many different cultures here, and what each may find funny. Sorry. (And I'm not even English).

what is business with his leg? Why you are pull his leg? Is this same same english humour pull my finger?

42 is answer to everything.

Thaksin have square face and no nose.

How he smell?

Very bad.

[Richard W]

... a whole lot other cultures have gone through the sometimes painful process of modernizing their alphabets. Thailand should also!

They did, during the Second World War. The decision was then reversed.

There are many many redundancies in sounds (many letters for the P sound, many for T also).

Unless you're proposing ditching the whole tone class system, which not even Lao has done, the only letter describable as a redundant letter for the P sound is pho samphao. If you are proposing ditching the tone class system, you eliminate just one more P-sound letter, presumably pho phueng.

Transliteration of Thai in to English is another ridiculous protocol (actually as many protocols as there are publishers), with all the silly h's added here and there.

There isn't much choice here. You've got four ways of handling the contrasts:

1) <d> v. <t> v. <th> (Royal Thai General System and also what's used for most other languages.)

2) <d> v. <t> v. <t'> (Wade-Giles, sometimes with opening inverted comma instead)

3) <dd> v. <d> v. <t> (Extended Pinyin)

4) <d> v. <dt> v. <t> (Several schemes for teaching Thai)

Is Scheme 4 standard anywhere?

[CLOD]

As usual the thread title is a bit misleading and slanted.

In essence the REDS (thats the Rural Electoral Democracy Supporters ) are responding to the class war perpetrated on them for years and years now by the thai elites.

Up to now the thai elites/junta have been able to keep a lid on it with all their propoganda and gun-totting, but now the cat is out the bag in the international media.

International Sympathy is with the RED freedom fighters, who want the country returning to democracy, and jackass abisit knows it, and his only weopan left is his blueshirts hit mob.

[Valentine]

And just like Thaksin, I read today that Suporn has had an arrest warrant issued to him today.

Seems Suporn failed to show up for a Supreme Court hearing he had on his conviction appeal. He had been sentenced to 12 months in prison by the Criminal Court and that conviction/sentence had been upheld by the Appeals Court. He had made a further appeal on that to the Supreme Court, but then failed to show up for the appeal hearing, hence he's now a fugitive.

As a banned former MP of the notorious Thai Rak Thai Party, he shares quite a bit with the former Party Leader Thaksin.

Additionally, he had a co-defendant in the case, a banned former MP of the equally notorious People Power Party, Theerachai Saenkaew, who also failed to show before the Supreme Court on his lesser conviction and 6 month prison sentence. He also is a fugitive now.

It sounds like Dubai is going to get a few more "investors."

By the way, Suporn may be more widely known by his moniker, Issan Rambo.

Although he doesn't have the physical build of a Sylvester Stallone (actually being obese, he's a polar opposite), but he shares a fascination with weapons and gun shoot-outs.

Why did you need to put an obviously modified photo up to prove your point. Anyone but a blind man can see it is not his hand holding the gun.

[moresomekl]

Well if Abhisit REALLY implements free education for all thais till 15 years then he has my gf's vote

Just how old is your girlfriend?

42 , why ?

I was pulling your leg. Childish English style humour. It's easy to forget the many different cultures here, and what each may find funny. Sorry. (And I'm not even English).

Alright . I am not english either

[moresomekl]

And just like Thaksin, I read today that Suporn has had an arrest warrant issued to him today.

Seems Suporn failed to show up for a Supreme Court hearing he had on his conviction appeal. He had been sentenced to 12 months in prison by the Criminal Court and that conviction/sentence had been upheld by the Appeals Court. He had made a further appeal on that to the Supreme Court, but then failed to show up for the appeal hearing, hence he's now a fugitive.

As a banned former MP of the notorious Thai Rak Thai Party, he shares quite a bit with the former Party Leader Thaksin.

Additionally, he had a co-defendant in the case, a banned former MP of the equally notorious People Power Party, Theerachai Saenkaew, who also failed to show before the Supreme Court on his lesser conviction and 6 month prison sentence. He also is a fugitive now.

It sounds like Dubai is going to get a few more "investors."

By the way, Suporn may be more widely known by his moniker, Issan Rambo.

Although he doesn't have the physical build of a Sylvester Stallone (actually being obese, he's a polar opposite), but he shares a fascination with weapons and gun shoot-outs.

Why did you need to put an obviously modified photo up to prove your point. Anyone but a blind man can see it is not his hand holding the gun.

you are right . did not see it at first

[ThaksinKharma]

And just like Thaksin, I read today that Suporn has had an arrest warrant issued to him today.

Seems Suporn failed to show up for a Supreme Court hearing he had on his conviction appeal. He had been sentenced to 12 months in prison by the Criminal Court and that conviction/sentence had been upheld by the Appeals Court. He had made a further appeal on that to the Supreme Court, but then failed to show up for the appeal hearing, hence he's now a fugitive.

As a banned former MP of the notorious Thai Rak Thai Party, he shares quite a bit with the former Party Leader Thaksin.

Additionally, he had a co-defendant in the case, a banned former MP of the equally notorious People Power Party, Theerachai Saenkaew, who also failed to show before the Supreme Court on his lesser conviction and 6 month prison sentence. He also is a fugitive now.

It sounds like Dubai is going to get a few more "investors."

By the way, Suporn may be more widely known by his moniker, Issan Rambo.

Although he doesn't have the physical build of a Sylvester Stallone (actually being obese, he's a polar opposite), but he shares a fascination with weapons and gun shoot-outs.

Why did you need to put an obviously modified photo up to prove your point. Anyone but a blind man can see it is not his hand holding the gun.

It's not a modified photo. The man on his right held the gun as he spoke.

A review of Issan Rambo's past reveals many instances of his involvement with weapons and shootings.

Edited March 21, 2010 by ThaksinKharma

[Jerrytheyoung]

I admire your optimism:

1-everything is normal there is no crisis (we have a french song in France "tout va tres bien Madame la Marquise",..... "the barn is burning, your horse is dead, the Castle is in fire, your husband is dead...Everything OK Madame la Marquise)

2- It is in such cicumstances that we will see if Abhisit is a Great man or just a tactician. He has to overpass his own side and has to show he is the PM of all Thais including the Northern rural population. Unfortunately, the current proposals, as they have been explained in this forum, seems very slim, nothing really concrete, just promises under conditions... It look very insufficient to cool down the situation and get the support of the Northern population.

3- yes the demonstrations will probably continue because the 'package" is empty.

2) You know he's not a dictator. He can't implement poicy independent of the legislative body, (most of whom would like to see him fail). Also this Northern population needs to make some gestures. He is not even able to travel in those areas at present because of bomb and assasination threats. Maybe they could lighten up on that a bit?

What do you mean nothing concrete? He's doing a bottom to top overhaul of the entire education system and passed legislation that makes that available to all for free for 15 years. Who else did nearly so much?

As an aside, you don't see any irony in the fact that the police are m/l onboard with this movement as well? What did the rural poor EVER get from the police except grief?

To make bloody sure there is no more dictators its best to have a law that prevents someone to be PM more then two times .

Well if Abhisit REALLY implements free education for all thais till 15 years then he has my gf's vote

Do not mistaken, I am against nobody. I try to be technical and help to find a positive issue to the current situation.

Free Education is one point positive but insufficient because the Thai society development is at 2 speeds. The fundamental needs of a large part of the population are not fulfill. If you are in Education, (If you are not I will teach you something fundamental) you have probably learnt that the Human needs and Motivation have been studied, and that Murray's researches followed by Maslow have established a theory which is accepted wordlwide.

As per the pyramid of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs (1954), the First level of human needs and motivation is "Physiological Needs: Air, Water, Food, Shelter, sleep, sex"- The second Level is Safety and Security....

"Need Satisfaction is an ongoing behavior that determines everyday actions. (End of Citation). There are 3 upper levels of Needs, but I will stay on those 2 first.

Do you understand that the Northern Rural population is demonstrating because the "first level is not satisfactorily fulfilled? I suggest you live with a poor family of Issan; example of one day menu: breakfast,a barbecued small snake and sticky rice, lunch; herbs and sticky rice, dinner; soup, a small fish for 5 persons and sticky rice...

Have you noticed that most of Northern children are slim,and some obviously are suffering from rickets...

Education free it is in the good direction, but it is not the answer to the first level of Needs. The priority is income (Foods, Housing, good working conditions). Northern Rural Population needs more and immediately.

[animatic]

As usual the thread title is a bit misleading and slanted.

...

But not as much as 90% of your postings are misleading and slanted.

[brahmburgers]

When judging the veracity of a political movement, some things are evident from its 'platforms' (what it proposes, what it stands for) ......and at least some perspective can be gained by looking at its leaders.

Re; the Red Shirts, they don't have any tangible platforms. Granted, they say they're against gross inequality of social classes (who isn't, except the rich?), but what proposals have their leaders put forth, other than seeking a pardon (and added billions) for Thaksin? Have they ever campaigned such things as environmental improvements or basic rights for hill tribers? Not that I've heard of.

As for leaders, whew. Even if they dumped Thaksin (which is near impossible as, even if the man were killed, he would become their martyr, and they'd probably wrap their movement around Oak or T's ex-wife, or one of his close relatives). No matter how you crunch the leadership material for the Reds, you wind up with a bunch of very rich, manipulative, intelligence-challenged, loud and corrupt people.

If the Reds want to be respected, they need to put forth some decent leadership material. Do such people even exist among their ranks?

[animatic]

And just like Thaksin, I read today that Suporn has had an arrest warrant issued to him today.

Seems Suporn failed to show up for a Supreme Court hearing he had on his conviction appeal. He had been sentenced to 12 months in prison by the Criminal Court and that conviction/sentence had been upheld by the Appeals Court. He had made a further appeal on that to the Supreme Court, but then failed to show up for the appeal hearing, hence he's now a fugitive.

As a banned former MP of the notorious Thai Rak Thai Party, he shares quite a bit with the former Party Leader Thaksin.

Additionally, he had a co-defendant in the case, a banned former MP of the equally notorious People Power Party, Theerachai Saenkaew, who also failed to show before the Supreme Court on his lesser conviction and 6 month prison sentence. He also is a fugitive now.

It sounds like Dubai is going to get a few more "investors."

By the way, Suporn may be more widely known by his moniker, Issan Rambo.

Although he doesn't have the physical build of a Sylvester Stallone (actually being obese, he's a polar opposite), but he shares a fascination with weapons and gun shoot-outs.

Why did you need to put an obviously modified photo up to prove your point. Anyone but a blind man can see it is not his hand holding the gun.

Sorry I took a good look at the pixilization and they all look exactly the same,

no pixel bluring, no sigh of masking, and no difference in sizes etc.

My sense is that someone was standing in front of him with this hand held artillery piece,

and because it was bright both were in focus.

But it is more trick of depth of field and angle of shot than any photoshop BS.

[Jerrytheyoung]

2) You know he's not a dictator. He can't implement poicy independent of the legislative body, (most of whom would like to see him fail). Also this Northern population needs to make some gestures. He is not even able to travel in those areas at present because of bomb and assasination threats. Maybe they could lighten up on that a bit?

Yes he is not a dictator, he is a good tactician manoeuvring well with the opposition, but he has not yet demonstrated he has the stature of a Great Head of Government.

Do you think a Churchill or a De Gaulle will have hesitated one second to go to Chiang Mai in spite of bombing / assassination threats? He is the leader of the Democrats, he has to obtain from them, enough concessions for negotiating with Northern Rural representatives,

He is in an historical moment, he has to get ride of constraints of his own side: to be a leader and not a follower....

Has he the stature which is required to face the situation? Waiting the coming days

[Jerrytheyoung]

When judging the veracity of a political movement, some things are evident from its 'platforms' (what it proposes, what it stands for) ......and at least some perspective can be gained by looking at its leaders.

Re; the Red Shirts, they don't have any tangible platforms. Granted, they say they're against gross inequality of social classes (who isn't, except the rich?), but what proposals have their leaders put forth, other than seeking a pardon (and added billions) for Thaksin? Have they ever campaigned such things as environmental improvements or basic rights for hill tribers? Not that I've heard of.

As for leaders, whew. Even if they dumped Thaksin (which is near impossible as, even if the man were killed, he would become their martyr, and they'd probably wrap their movement around Oak or T's ex-wife, or one of his close relatives). No matter how you crunch the leadership material for the Reds, you wind up with a bunch of very rich, manipulative, intelligence-challenged, loud and corrupt people.

If the Reds want to be respected, they need to put forth some decent leadership material. Do such people even exist among their ranks?

I think the Red Shirts, after hesitations, have opened the Pandora box with the Class War. It was a back up line of defense. Not sure, they can control the situation to the end. Apparently, yesterday, Bangkokian lower class is beginning to join the movement. There are certainly potential leaders, not interested in supporting Thaksin wealth but who may be interested by the new orientation and who will join now. It explains that the Red Shirts have not really prepared this "Class War", but Universities are certainly full of students and lecturers who will be happy to make a "platform'.

[Arandora]

As usual the thread title is a bit misleading and slanted.

In essence the REDS (thats the Rural Electoral Democracy Supporters ) are responding to the class war perpetrated on them for years and years now by the thai elites.

Up to now the thai elites/junta have been able to keep a lid on it with all their propoganda and gun-totting, but now the cat is out the bag in the international media.

International Sympathy is with the RED freedom fighters, who want the country returning to democracy, and jackass abisit knows it, and his only weopan left is his blueshirts hit mob.

International sympathy may very well be with the Reds but the dilemma as we in the West see it is how can we totally sympathise with a pro democracy movement that aligns itself with a former corrupt PM and fugitive from his own country's law and who from humble beginnings has made billions at the expense of the people who now support him. If the Red movement were to disavow Thaksin that would expose the current government and PM to far greater pressure for populist reform and, for what it is worth, bring about real international sympathy.

[lannarebirth]

2) You know he's not a dictator. He can't implement poicy independent of the legislative body, (most of whom would like to see him fail). Also this Northern population needs to make some gestures. He is not even able to travel in those areas at present because of bomb and assasination threats. Maybe they could lighten up on that a bit?

Yes he is not a dictator, he is a good tactician manoeuvring well with the opposition, but he has not yet demonstrated he has the stature of a Great Head of Government.

Do you think a Churchill or a De Gaulle will have hesitated one second to go to Chiang Mai in spite of bombing / assassination threats? He is the leader of the Democrats, he has to obtain from them, enough concessions for negotiating with Northern Rural representatives,

He is in an historical moment, he has to get ride of constraints of his own side: to be a leader and not a follower....

Has he the stature which is required to face the situation? Waiting the coming days

I agree with all that and it remains to be seen if Abhisit has greatness in him. I hope for Thailand's sake he can meet these challanges, because let's face the facts, its him or the Army steps back in, or Thailand becomes failed state. None of that Red movement will ever govern Thailand and I think we all know that.

[katasyd]

The latest issue of the economist is a very interesting read into the future of the political outcomes but it is banned in Thailand due to the lese mejeste laws.

20th to 26th March issue.

[rixalex]

The latest issue of the economist is a very interesting read into the future of the political outcomes but it is banned in Thailand due to the lese mejeste laws.

20th to 26th March issue.

Don't bother. The Economist is as blatantly biased as The Nation.

[Samuian]

The latest issue of the economist is a very interesting read into the future of the political outcomes but it is banned in Thailand due to the lese mejeste laws.

20th to 26th March issue.

Don't bother. The Economist is as blatantly biased as The Nation.

Are the oppressed rural poor defying illegitimate and abusive state power, or is a political fugitive causing social rifts through a hate campaign for his own benefit?

-- The Nation from todays article "back to square one"

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[Insight]

The latest issue of the economist is a very interesting read into the future of the political outcomes but it is banned in Thailand due to the lese mejeste laws.

20th to 26th March issue.

Don't bother. The Economist is as blatantly biased as The Nation.

Wonder if Thaksin will have The Economist's journalists investigated should they turn against him?

[Jerrytheyoung]

The latest issue of the economist is a very interesting read into the future of the political outcomes but it is banned in Thailand due to the lese mejeste laws.

20th to 26th March issue.

Don't bother. The Economist is as blatantly biased as The Nation.

Are the oppressed rural poor defying illegitimate and abusive state power, or is a political fugitive causing social rifts through a hate campaign for his own benefit?

-- The Nation from todays article "back to square one"

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

It is a mixture with a progressive transfer and the Center of Gravity is changing.....This is why the situation is becoming very serious: the Pandora box is open, and those who have opened it may loose the control....

[siampolee]

The sad thing about ''The Class War'' is that when and if it happens the very people who have been whipped into a frenzy are the ones that will suffer the most as history has proved.

The Russian revolution, Mao Tse Tungs revolution, Fidel Castro liberation of the masses, Pol Pot and the urbanisation and genocide of the people of Kampuchea, the Burmese generals etc the list is endless.

When the truth arrives it is too late for the common man and woman in the street to react, terror is in place, one form of perceived class oppression has been replaced with a far more draconian form of oppression as again history sadly shows only too well.

Once the ''Liberators'' are in power they begin their exploitation and oppression of the masses.

Society is by virtue of the people in it a class structured society, ''Some are born to lead some are born to follow''

The inequality in Thai society is due to the long practised system of patronage which has been in place for centuries, it will take many years for the system to change, violent changes breed more violent reactions.

My opinion is that if some of the less well balanced members of the self proclaimed Red Shirt leaders are edged out of position we will see a more constructive dialogue coming out of the leadership. At the end of the day matters need to, nay have to be discussed so as all levels of Thai society can move forward in harmony for their mutual benefits.

Thaksin is not needed no more than Penkair is along with impetuous military personnel and the rabid hate mongers and strolling minstrels who openly state ''They are above the law'' these characters state that in the event of their arrest hordes will besiege the police station in order to release them.

Indeed it bodes well for a stable democratic society such as these types advocate, mob rule, anarchy, I am above the law does it not ?

Methinks their true desire is to create a super Hi So group to further their own ends, indeed an interesting scenario.

''Don't do as I do , do as I say''

The working class can kiss my A***

I've got the foreman's job at last

I'm out of work and on the dole

You can stick your red flag down a hole.

Sung to the tune of the Internationle

Edited March 21, 2010 by siampolee

[Ricardo]

As usual the thread title is a bit misleading and slanted.

In essence the REDS (thats the Rural Electoral Democracy Supporters ) are responding to the class war perpetrated on them for years and years now by the thai elites.

Up to now the thai elites/junta have been able to keep a lid on it with all their propoganda and gun-totting, but now the cat is out the bag in the international media.

International Sympathy is with the RED freedom fighters, who want the country returning to democracy, and jackass abisit knows it, and his only weopan left is his blueshirts hit mob.

"now the cat is out of the bag in the international media".

They must want to 'flog' a few extra copies, eh ?

[Jerrytheyoung]

The sad thing about ''The Class War'' is that when and if it happens the very people who have been whipped into a frenzy are the ones that will suffer the most as history has proved.

The Russian revolution, Mao Tse Tungs revolution, Fidel Castro liberation of the masses, Pol Pot and the urbanisation and genocide of the people of Kampuchea, the Burmese generals etc the list is endless.

When the truth arrives it is too late for the common man and woman in the street to react, terror is in place, one form of perceived class oppression has been replaced with a far more draconian form of oppression as again history sadly shows only too well.

Once the ''Liberators'' are in power they begin their exploitation and oppression of the masses.

Society is by virtue of the people in it a class structured society, ''Some are born to lead some are born to follow''

The inequality in Thai society is due to the long practised system of patronage which has been in place for centuries, it will take many years for the system to change, violent changes breed more violent reactions.

My opinion is that if some of the less well balanced members of the self proclaimed Red Shirt leaders are edged out of position we will see a more constructive dialogue coming out of the leadership. At the end of the day matters need to, nay have to be discussed so as all levels of Thai society can move forward in harmony for their mutual benefits.

Thaksin is not needed no more than Penkair is along with impetuous military personnel and the rabid hate mongers and strolling minstrels who openly state ''They are above the law'' these characters state that in the event of their arrest hordes will besiege the police station in order to release them.

Indeed it bodes well for a stable democratic society such as these types advocate, mob rule, anarchy, I am above the law does it not ?

Methinks their true desire is to create a super Hi So group to further their own ends, indeed an interesting scenario.

''Don't do as I do , do as I say''

The working class can kiss my A***

I've got the foreman's job at last

I'm out of work and on the dole

You can stick your red flag down a hole.

Sung to the tune of the Internationle

Our western democraties have been built through crisis, strikes, uprisings and even wars and revolutions. Today most of our Heads of government are sensitive to the equilibrium of our societies, they do know that they have to manage not only the Economy but also the social environment. Today in Thailand, there is a huge imbalance with leaders focusing nearly exclusively on their Industry performance, 50% of the Population is sidelined with no hope and very poor conditions.

The results of upraisings is often negociations and social readjustments, not only the radical changes of Society that you mention.

I do wish that Thais leaders will take the correct decisions to defuse this situation....but time is running, against them

[way2muchcoffee]

Now we begin to see the real agenda of the Red Shirt Brigade,Thaksins money is useful to them along with Hun Sens socialist principles.

''Whats' mine is mine, what's yours is also mine''

Why don't you stop talking BULLSHIT!!!!

Why don't you read the rules of this forum? Stop posting in color, and stop shouting please.

[CLOD]

As usual the thread title is a bit misleading and slanted.

...

But not as much as 90% of your postings are misleading and slanted.

90% eh, a long way to go to catch you up then.

[siampolee]

way2muchcoffee.

I am indeed flattered that you feel you have the need to quote me. albeit in an argument just for the record I do not post in colour neither do I shout.

Perchance that is down to your editing skills robert00 ?

robert00. Plainly you are of a democratic frame of mind as is Thaksin

I would suggest that you transport your own Male Bovine Waste Faecal Matter to your house plants where it will indeed prove of some use to them.

Thaksin is a corrupt megalomaniac who is trying to hi-jack a movement for his and his cronies own ends.

Edited March 21, 2010 by siampolee

[Ricardo]

<snip for brevity>

International Sympathy is with the RED freedom fighters, who want the country returning to democracy, and jackass abisit knows it, and his only weopan left is his blueshirts hit mob.

You say that PM-Abhisit has "his blueshirts hit mob", do you have any evidence, that he in any way controls them ?

Or is it of the same quality-of-debate, as your previous unsubstantiated claim, that he was part of the junta too ?

[yoshiwara]

<snip for brevity>

International Sympathy is with the RED freedom fighters, who want the country returning to democracy, and jackass abisit knows it, and his only weopan left is his blueshirts hit mob.

You say that PM-Abhisit has "his blueshirts hit mob", do you have any evidence, that he in any way controls them ?

Or is it of the same quality-of-debate, as your previous unsubstantiated claim, that he was part of the junta too ?

You will have some trouble having a sensible conversation with such types

They are only programmed to broadcast the latest red diatribe.

eg that the reds are innocent of the Songkran violence last year.

There is a later 'lets not talk about personalities' model robot, but they are not much use either.

[Thai at Heart]

The latest issue of the economist is a very interesting read into the future of the political outcomes but it is banned in Thailand due to the lese mejeste laws.

20th to 26th March issue.

Don't bother. The Economist is as blatantly biased as The Nation.

I guess the way they denounce Mugabe, North Korea or Burma obviously makes them biased too.

Interesting and very enlightening read. As far as I know, it isn't banned, it is has been removed from circulation voluntarily by the distributor. Sort of a la Chine.

[way2muchcoffee]

way2muchcoffee.

I am indeed flattered that you feel you have the need to quote me. albeit in an argument just for the record I do not post in colour neither do I shout.

Perchance that is down to your editing skills robert00 ?

robert00. Plainly you are of a democratic frame of mind as is Thaksin

I would suggest that you transport your own Male Bovine Waste Faecal Matter to your house plants where it will indeed prove of some use to them.

Thaksin is a corrupt megalomaniac who is trying to hi-jack a movement for his and his cronies own ends.

Sorry. Didn't mean to include you in my quote siampolee. As you surmised it was directed at robert00.