Why Do I Need To Love Thailand?

[GarryP]

I never really give it a thought one way or another. I don't dislike like it. It is just the place where I have lived for the past 26 years. If Thais ask, I usually answer with the noncommittal, "Its got good and bad aspects".

[thaifkrlim]

Jail time or walk free, just like in the court of law , you are either convicted or acquitted, there is no non-commital answer to a thai person, just like a relationship with your thai woman, you have to commit yourself to her

[cognos]

.. next time don't tell him "Boo" ; perhaps you could pretend you are deaf..

but seriously, your view is understandable. i have been to thailand 7 times, but only for a year in totality..so it takes a while for the 'honeymoon" to wear off.. it pretty well has for me, so i can see why it has for you a long time ago..but lets all remember.. the glass is always half full..

signed: i "see" said the blind man

[cognos]

Hey, they let me stay here, its hard to complain too much. The list of countries that would tolerate my sorry asss ain't long ...

Canada for one, and the medical system is pretty good too

signed: not the American model of "heathcare"

[Svenn]

Why, when asked by random thai people if I like/love Thailand, do they seem to expect me to gush on about it?

I've found that there are a lot of farangs out there, in all parts of Asia if not the world, that maintain the 'tourist' mindset among themselves no matter how long they've stayed in the foreign country. For instance, I've met some expats in phnom penh who get giddy like german backpackers for the opportunity to go look around the 'local market' or look at the 'beautiful monks and temples', even thought they've lived there FOR 10 YEARS!!! Hence there's this expectation that you must "love" the country if you live there.

I for one quickly tire of the exotic atmosphere, especially because i'm living with and interacting with locals. Eventually, I believe the genuine expat should hate thailand or at least be irritated by it... those who don't and maintain the attitude i mentioned above, probably haven't been here that long or never really adapted to the place (or are just absent minded and easily impressed). If you seriously have to have a career or have a family, it's not rational to stay in thailand with your thai wife, just in my opinion. I know a lot of good guys that do it in isaan, and more power to them, but the lack of opportunities and limiting factors here just don't make it a place deserving of 'love' IMHO

[witold]

The OP said: "I usually reply with a "yes, it's ok" then they sit with an expectant face, like that isn't sufficient & I should then rattle off a bunch of reasons why Thailand is so great."

This desire to hear something good about one's own country seems rather logical. When I reverse the situation and think about "foreigners" I have met in the States who seem not to have a significant appreciation for America and its culture, I too wonder...and will probably ask...so why did you come here? I understand that it may be different for some, but for me choosing to leave one's own country to live elsewhere is a very big decision.  

My parents and I immigrated to the US when I was younger.  Many Americans think that most people immigrate to the USA for clear and specific reasons and they *must* love it, but it's not true.  But most immigrants I know from Western countries are not impressed at all and many go home.  Obviously people who came to the US from the 3rd world are a bit more happier, but you would be surprised how many of them dream of going back home and eventually do after saving up enough money.  In my observations, most people come based on many misconceptions and myths.  Ultimately many stay in the US because of money and/or life being just a little easier.  Amazing?  No.  Dream come true?  No.  Decent enough and fairly comfortable?  Yes.  

Same with Thailand, I think... 

Of course if you are rich, every country is absolutely wonderful for you.  If you are not rich, you can get a little taste of living the good life by moving to less developed and poor countries like Thailand.  I think that is a pretty good strategy and why I am considering Bangkok - I can have a NYC lifestyle there and use it as a hub for travel around Asia.  

[Svenn]

Obviously people who came to the US from the 3rd world are a bit more happier, but you would be surprised how many of them dream of going back home and eventually do after saving up enough money. In my observations, most people come based on many misconceptions and myths. Ultimately many stay in the US because of money and/or life being just a little easier.

I think it is reasonable to assume that if you become a citizen of a new country then it should be expected that you 'love' it. I would want any Thai who becomes an American citizen to 'love' the US (not necessarily the US government, which is probably the stupidest thing to love, but just a basic appreciation for the culture and land). Unfortunately, as you point out, many foreigners who become US citizens have very little attachment or appreciation of the US, and are just there for business, to save up as you say, to eventually return to their homeland. I'm not excusing the savage Japanese internment during WW2, in fact I know a local japanese-american family here that volunteered to fight Japan during that time, but there was actually a semi-valid reason for it because there were indeed a significant amount of Japanese-Americans that had been citizens for generations but were still fiercly loyal to Japan. I'm not trying to sound like a redneck from idaho, but what do you guys seriously think the mexican immigrants, who claim to want to be 'americans', would do should Mexico begin a war with the US?

In Thailand, the country is so nationalistic and parochial that farangs aren't allowed to be citizens no matter what, which is why I don't think we should be expected to love LOS as of yet.

[endure]

In Thailand, the country is so nationalistic and parochial that farangs aren't allowed to be citizens no matter what, which is why I don't think we should be expected to love LOS as of yet.

This isn't true. Dbrenn, a member of Thaivisa, gained Thai citizenship. His story is here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Story-Thai-C...io-t121353.html

[Svenn]

In Thailand, the country is so nationalistic and parochial that farangs aren't allowed to be citizens no matter what, which is why I don't think we should be expected to love LOS as of yet.

This isn't true. Dbrenn, a member of Thaivisa, gained Thai citizenship. His story is here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Story-Thai-C...io-t121353.html

Wow, I stand corrected... that's a very interesting story. Certainly Dbrenn should be expected to say he "loves" thailand

[Tinkelbell]

quoted from 'boo' ......." IME many thais who have moved overseas (esp women I have found) will enjoy their life in europe, OZ or US & find coming back to Thailand to be a real reverse culture shock & tend to complain more loudly than us foreigners........"

...........................................................................

Ha...ha...ha...

Boo, although we've never met, you took the words out of my mouth. I'm a Thai who's been living in the US for over 2 decades.

Before hubby & I settle down here ( in the US), we used to live in BKK, Tokyo, Taipei, a few years on each place dued to his overseas assignment.

As you can guess we love living here otherwise I should move back to my home country long time ago.

I still take my annual trip to see my Thai family and old friends and eating Thai foods and my favorite tropical fruits, but living there is a no..no.

[phetaroi]

The OP said: "I usually reply with a "yes, it's ok" then they sit with an expectant face, like that isn't sufficient & I should then rattle off a bunch of reasons why Thailand is so great."

This desire to hear something good about one's own country seems rather logical. When I reverse the situation and think about "foreigners" I have met in the States who seem not to have a significant appreciation for America and its culture, I too wonder...and will probably ask...so why did you come here? I understand that it may be different for some, but for me choosing to leave one's own country to live elsewhere is a very big decision.  

My parents and I immigrated to the US when I was younger.  Many Americans think that most people immigrate to the USA for clear and specific reasons and they *must* love it, but it's not true.    

But you see, you and I are saying something different.

You used the phrase "must love it", I'm saying "have a significant appreciation for".

[Ulysses G.]

Hey, they let me stay here, its hard to complain too much. The list of countries that would tolerate my sorry asss ain't long ...

Canada for one

Canada is wonderful for 2 months in the summertime, but what do you do for the other 10?

[jackr]

Thai women have small boobs.

At least they're bigger than the blokes' boobs, eh PB.

[PeaceBlondie]

My ex-wife had huge boobs.

[BlackArtemis]

Small boobs is why I like Asian women. They don't need to tuck 'em in their waistbands once they hit 40.

[Ulysses G.]

My ex-wife had huge boobs.

They are wasted on some guys.

[maccaroni man]

cause they are asking me what I love. I don't love food, I am not a foody & imo thai food isn't as great as people go on about. Some things are good but then so is alot of other food. Besides giving some lame-o bs answer to make someone feel proud isn't my style. I like Thailand but I don't love it. Really, that should be enough.

And besides, I can't lie on the spot, I gave the immigration guy an honest answer, tough boob if he don't like it

Often these questions are subtly asking about the extent of your selfishness, and whether you would put the wellbeing of your country before your own. If you relate to it that way, it's quite a simple question with a yes or no answer. Either you do or you don't.

when have you ever met a thai that can give a simple yes or no answer?

[venturalaw]

no but may be part of the reason they expect us non thais to think it is so great too

I think Thais want everyone to love their country, or why would a foreigner want to live here. Reminds me of the saying back in the 70's "America, love it or leave it." I never agreed with that concept. What does one mean by 'loving' a country? It's different for everyone.

What I 'love' about Thailand is that Thai people generally are easier going - less up tight, than what I am use to in the U.S. Generally kinder. I use to fight for a living so I don't want it in my personal life.

However, I certainly don't believe one must love a place to live there, but it makes sense to appreciate it more than another country. If one does not enjoy/appreciate living in the country in which they reside, given a choice, why live in a place when you would prefer to be somewhere else?

[IanForbes]

No country is perfect. There are faults in all of them. Everyone is different and their wants and needs are different. And, that can change with age or marital status. It can change again when you have children. There IS no need to love anywhere you CHOOSE to live. And, there-in lies the crunch. Some people don't have a choice in where they are allowed to live.

[Tedhead]

I think it's understandable that if you travel half-way across the world to live somewhere else, that people would assume that you have done so because you prefer the country you have moved to in preference to either the country you came from or the dozens of others you flew over to get there.

Now, in reality, many people move for reasons of work or family. As first-generation Irish growing up in England, I found that the immediate reaction of many people to any criticism of Britain was "Well, if you don't like it 'ere, you can fahhhk off back where you came from." Err...fine, but where I 'came from' was where we were standing, having the conversation. Eventually, I took their advice and fahhked off back to where my parents came from - Ireland. The people are more relaxed (although that's changed in recent years and now most people are as career-driven and stressed as anywhere else) and it's just a more pleasant environment to while away the years.

Point is, I don't find myself amazed when the natives are proud and/or protective of their own country, and that instinct is universal, not peculiarly Thai. Try living in middle America and telling them "Meh. It's okay here."

[eek]

Just as a side-note, isnt it often just an overused expression/question, rather than meaning to be specific? Iike um.."I Iove those shoes!" Sure..they dont actuaIIy "Iove" them, but Iike them a Iot to make an emphasis. If someone asks me what i Iove about something, i usuaIIy take it that they are asking me what i strongIy Iike, or what i Iike more than usuaI. Or i think aIong the Iines of what eIements do i strongIy Iike. I dont feeI i need to be gushy. But..i couId be wrong in my thinking.

I've found that there are a lot of farangs out there, in all parts of Asia if not the world, that maintain the 'tourist' mindset among themselves no matter how long they've stayed in the foreign country. For instance, I've met some expats in phnom penh who get giddy like german backpackers for the opportunity to go look around the 'local market' or look at the 'beautiful monks and temples', even thought they've lived there FOR 10 YEARS!!! Hence there's this expectation that you must "love" the country if you live there.

Hmm..why is that a 'tourist' mindset? Its great if peopIe stiII enjoy the simpIe things that attracted them 10 years ago. Better than the constant compIainers who do my nut in! I dont particuIarIy enjoy Iistening to the constant waxing IyricaI set either, but id rather be around that than the moaners.

I for one quickly tire of the exotic atmosphere, especially because i'm living with and interacting with locals. Eventually, I believe the genuine expat should hate thailand or at least be irritated by it... those who don't and maintain the attitude i mentioned above, probably haven't been here that long or never really adapted to the place (or are just absent minded and easily impressed). If you seriously have to have a career or have a family, it's not rational to stay in thailand with your thai wife, just in my opinion. I know a lot of good guys that do it in isaan, and more power to them, but the lack of opportunities and limiting factors here just don't make it a place deserving of 'love' IMHO

There are eIements that i Iike and disIike about Iife here, same as anywhere. I dont tire of the pIace from more interaction with IocaIs, i just become more famiIiar. I personaIIy dont agree that any "genuine" expat (whatever that may be) shouId hate or get irritated by ThaiIand..and if they dont share your view they havent adapted. I can see aspects of what you are taIking about, and get what you mean, but at the same time its comes over as quite a bIack and white viewpoint. Just as someone may Iive here and not want to gush about it, doesnt mean that someone is Iess of a "genuine" expat if they do Iove it. Its down to each individuaI and their viewpoint. No view is wrong, its just differences of opinion. AIthough, a generaI weII rounded view is imo the most adjusted view.

--

Oh and do i Iove ThaiIand..yeh..sure..some aspects of it. ..but some aspects suck ass.

[Ulysses G.]

Its great if peopIe stiII enjoy the simpIe things that attracted them 10 years ago. Better than the constant compIainers who do my nut in!

Oh and do i Iove ThaiIand..yeh..sure..some aspects of it. ..but some aspects suck ass.

Agreed!

[StreetCowboy]

My ex-wife had huge boobs.

They are wasted on some guys.

I think the guys with huge boobs make the most of them.

SC

[Lakegeneve]

Boo,

Recently my better half an I were accosted by a Thai gentleman who worked for Immigration. He wanted to know what I thought of Thailands beaches, as he knew we had travelled a fair bit. I hesitate in reply and after a very brief moment the other half stepped in and told him that many of Thailands beaches that we had visited were dirty, overcrowded and not that attractive. She then went on to tell him about beaches in Australia that she had visited. He was mortified with her, he then stated that there was no way that Australia's beaches could be better than Thailands, because if they were no Australias would be in Thailand. He virtually dismissed what she was saying to him.

As we left him I told him that Thailand was definately unique & he seemed happy with that .

This is experience in relation to the Immigration officers disposition is very common I have found over the years. I put it down to what many have previously mentioned..... intense nationalism, genuine love for the country and community, a ROTE educational system but ultimately it is that unique 'Thai bubble' isssue.

For all the exposure to the outside world that Thais have experienced via visitors and foreign residents many Thais seem very content to remain in their 'Thai Bubble' world thinking that Thailand is the best place in the world even in the context of accepted institutional dysfunctionalities.

Edited March 25, 2010 by Lakegeneve

[twschw]

I was just wondering what happened between February 6th when you posted this:

2010-02-06 14:48:03

Flags are important for many countries, if not all.

They're the symbol you burn when you do not like the country, and the one you proudly display when you like the country.

I love Thailand and have been trying to get a good picture of the Thai flag for as long as I remember.

I give you my two best shots so far...

and March 21st when you posted this:

I actually do not like Thailand that much either, not much to like actually, besides the weather and some Thai people.

Not too sure why some foreigners think it is one of the best place to live in.

I'm here because I have a job to do here, the job is gone, I'm gone.

I will anyway have no choice, if my employment pass is cancelled, I have 24 hours to leave the country.

And if only for that stupid visa law, I will happily do it.

But for a few other reasons, I just can't do that easily.

So, indeed, why do I need to love Thailand?

It must have been something pretty bad. I am sorry for your misfortune.

[Lancelot]

Maybe they don't "love" the UK but check out the Thais lining up outside the British Embassy...

[elkangorito]

People who fall in love with lumps of dirt are a bit crazy in my opinion.

I am a member of 'the world'. I do not love my country nor do I hate it. I am not a 'guest' in any country. I live on this planet the same as we all try to do.

Nationalism on any level, does not necessarily indicate a person's 'love for their country'. What it does indicate is the willingness to subjugate other 'peoples' & their countries for the sake of a lump of dirt or a flag (war).

I have found that people who decidely 'love their country' are bigotted or narrow minded, although this is sometimes not the case. 'Pride' is the further affect of this illness, which does nothing other than set people up for a big let down.

Essentially, all of this is very egotistical & subsequently quite ill-advised if one wishes to maintain a normal view & grasp on life.

[phetaroi]

People who fall in love with lumps of dirt are a bit crazy in my opinion.

I am a member of 'the world'. I do not love my country nor do I hate it. I am not a 'guest' in any country. I live on this planet the same as we all try to do.

Nationalism on any level, does not necessarily indicate a person's 'love for their country'. What it does indicate is the willingness to subjugate other 'peoples' & their countries for the sake of a lump of dirt or a flag (war).

I have found that people who decidely 'love their country' are bigotted or narrow minded, although this is sometimes not the case. 'Pride' is the further affect of this illness, which does nothing other than set people up for a big let down.

Essentially, all of this is very egotistical & subsequently quite ill-advised if one wishes to maintain a normal view & grasp on life.

Just so we'll all be prepared, which song are you going to break into? "Kumbaya" or "Imagine"?

1. It isn't being in love with dirt. It's being in love with what the forefathers of the country sacrificed for and, for many, the land their mothers and fathers scrimped and saved and worked for.

2. You may not think you're a guest in a "foreign" country, but since they can toss you at any moment...yes you are.

3. You are not free to wander the planet.

4. Being patriotic doesn't mean that one doesn't see the flaws of their own country. Hence, Martin Luther King, Jr. as just one example. Or, perhaps Nelson Mandela?

[Ulysses G.]

People who fall in love with lumps of dirt are a bit crazy in my opinion.

I am a member of 'the world'. I do not love my country nor do I hate it. I am not a 'guest' in any country. I live on this planet the same as we all try to do.

Nationalism on any level, does not necessarily indicate a person's 'love for their country'. What it does indicate is the willingness to subjugate other 'peoples' & their countries for the sake of a lump of dirt or a flag (war).

I have found that people who decidely 'love their country' are bigotted or narrow minded, although this is sometimes not the case. 'Pride' is the further affect of this illness, which does nothing other than set people up for a big let down.

Essentially, all of this is very egotistical & subsequently quite ill-advised if one wishes to maintain a normal view & grasp on life.

That is all really Groovy, but does not sound very well-adjusted to me.

[patong]

People who fall in love with lumps of dirt are a bit crazy in my opinion.

I am a member of 'the world'. I do not love my country nor do I hate it. I am not a 'guest' in any country. I live on this planet the same as we all try to do.

Nationalism on any level, does not necessarily indicate a person's 'love for their country'. What it does indicate is the willingness to subjugate other 'peoples' & their countries for the sake of a lump of dirt or a flag (war).

I have found that people who decidely 'love their country' are bigotted or narrow minded, although this is sometimes not the case. 'Pride' is the further affect of this illness, which does nothing other than set people up for a big let down.

Essentially, all of this is very egotistical & subsequently quite ill-advised if one wishes to maintain a normal view & grasp on life.

Just so we'll all be prepared, which song are you going to break into? "Kumbaya" or "Imagine"?

1. It isn't being in love with dirt. It's being in love with what the forefathers of the country sacrificed for and, for many, the land their mothers and fathers scrimped and saved and worked for.

2. You may not think you're a guest in a "foreign" country, but since they can toss you at any moment...yes you are.

queen, comes to mind, i want to break free.

3. You are not free to wander the planet.

4. Being patriotic doesn't mean that one doesn't see the flaws of their own country. Hence, Martin Luther King, Jr. as just one example. Or, perhaps Nelson Mandela?

queen, comes to mind, i want to break free.

Edited March 26, 2010 by patong