Wondering Why So Many Farang Drink And Drive In Thailand

[Phil Conners]

Don't know about the rest of Thailand but in Pattaya I think one of the reasons is the unavailability of metered taxis. Yes we have them but first you need to find one and then they refuse to use the meter, charging 300-500 (depending on your skill of negotiation) to take you home to the darkside from a night out in town. If there was a system like in Bangkok where you could call a cab and they would flag the meter without argument I think the number of drink-driving incidents would be lowered considerable here.

Still is it a good excuse if you can pay for the booze why cant you pay for the cab ride ?

Anyway i think most users really don't care that they endanger others. The remarks like the thai do it too.. doesn't really cut it because we are not Thai and should know better.

You keep seeing people rant about how much better a farang is then a Thai but when it comes down to it they are just as bad.

I do agree though that it would help

I did say "one of the reasons". I agree, another reason is the chances of getting caught are remote and the fine is low.

The problem with cabs is not just the price, it's also the arguments/haggling over the price that many just can't be bothered with, specially not after a nice night out.

[robblok]

Anyway i think most users really don't care that they endanger others. The remarks like the thai do it too.. doesn't really cut it because we are not Thai and should know better.

What makes you think 'we' know any better than the Thais do?

Maybe 'we' have got it wrong, and the Thais are right.

Sounds sort of racist.

Its been proven that alcohol inhibits safe driving and we should know better because we have been taught about this and most Thais are not aware of it to the same level as we.

Nothing racial about it.

And i wager you that you drive worse with alcohol then without.

You sound like a complete idiot for defending drunk driving.

[robblok]

Anyway i think most users really don't care that they endanger others. The remarks like the thai do it too.. doesn't really cut it because we are not Thai and should know better.

What makes you think 'we' know any better than the Thais do?

Maybe 'we' have got it wrong, and the Thais are right.

Sounds sort of racist.

Agreed, OP is going a bit over the top on this one.

Drinking and driving is tolerated by the law here - until you hit someone that is- so who is the OP to decide that a whole nation is wrong and we must all do what he says.

Jeez, get over yourself

Its not tolerated, if you get caught it is not. Its just that the chance of getting caught here is less.. and wow an other drunk driving genius. Bet you make your family proud.

[robblok]

Don't know about the rest of Thailand but in Pattaya I think one of the reasons is the unavailability of metered taxis. Yes we have them but first you need to find one and then they refuse to use the meter, charging 300-500 (depending on your skill of negotiation) to take you home to the darkside from a night out in town. If there was a system like in Bangkok where you could call a cab and they would flag the meter without argument I think the number of drink-driving incidents would be lowered considerable here.

Still is it a good excuse if you can pay for the booze why cant you pay for the cab ride ?

Anyway i think most users really don't care that they endanger others. The remarks like the thai do it too.. doesn't really cut it because we are not Thai and should know better.

You keep seeing people rant about how much better a farang is then a Thai but when it comes down to it they are just as bad.

I do agree though that it would help

I did say "one of the reasons". I agree, another reason is the chances of getting caught are remote and the fine is low.

The problem with cabs is not just the price, it's also the arguments/haggling over the price that many just can't be bothered with, specially not after a nice night out.

I agree its real annoying having to haggle about a price. I understand the reasons for sure just think its stupid. Like i said many times i don't care if someone like that kills himself but the problem is they take others with them.

[bkkjames]

Don't know about the rest of Thailand but in Pattaya I think one of the reasons is the unavailability of metered taxis. Yes we have them but first you need to find one and then they refuse to use the meter, charging 300-500 (depending on your skill of negotiation) to take you home to the darkside from a night out in town. If there was a system like in Bangkok where you could call a cab and they would flag the meter without argument I think the number of drink-driving incidents would be lowered considerable here.

Still is it a good excuse if you can pay for the booze why cant you pay for the cab ride ?

Anyway i think most users really don't care that they endanger others. The remarks like the thai do it too.. doesn't really cut it because we are not Thai and should know better.

You keep seeing people rant about how much better a farang is then a Thai but when it comes down to it they are just as bad.

I do agree though that it would help

I did say "one of the reasons". I agree, another reason is the chances of getting caught are remote and the fine is low.

The problem with cabs is not just the price, it's also the arguments/haggling over the price that many just can't be bothered with, specially not after a nice night out.

I agree its real annoying having to haggle about a price. I understand the reasons for sure just think its stupid. Like i said many times i don't care if someone like that kills himself but the problem is they take others with them.

Rob, Merit Making is next month mate. Save your crusade when 3500 injured and 400 dead Thais during the 'annual cull of the new year" happens.

I don't drink and drive and I don't know any farangs that do in BKK. In places like Phuket and Pattaya to a lessor extent I imagine it would be higher percentage of both farang and Thai drunk drivers.

[robblok]

Rob, Merit Making is next month mate. Save your crusade when 3500 injured and 400 dead Thais during the 'annual cull of the new year" happens.

I don't drink and drive and I don't know any farangs that do in BKK. In places like Phuket and Pattaya to a lessor extent I imagine it would be higher percentage of both farang and Thai drunk drivers.

Thing is i am a farang and i don't go after Thais like that. You are right about next month its a dangerous time. But its just that there are still plenty of farangs that seem to think its ok to drink and drive. Thank god only 2 idiots in this topic. I did not think you would drink and drive you seem to full of your family to want to risk that.

I just started the topic after i read a few polls about it here on the board and i know that Thais drink and drive but like i said many farang consider them self better as Thais.. but obviously not when it comes to drunk driving.

Thank god most here see drunk driving as something evil no matter who drives Thai or farang. But the "but they do it too" defense just feels so wrong.

Im no johny do good you seen my remarks about drugs in the other topics. I just dont like to be endangered by others when i go out and drive my bike its dangerous enough without drunk drivers.

[bkkjames]

Rob, Merit Making is next month mate. Save your crusade when 3500 injured and 400 dead Thais during the 'annual cull of the new year" happens.

I don't drink and drive and I don't know any farangs that do in BKK. In places like Phuket and Pattaya to a lessor extent I imagine it would be higher percentage of both farang and Thai drunk drivers.

Thing is i am a farang and i don't go after Thais like that. You are right about next month its a dangerous time. But its just that there are still plenty of farangs that seem to think its ok to drink and drive. Thank god only 2 idiots in this topic. I did not think you would drink and drive you seem to full of your family to want to risk that.

I just started the topic after i read a few polls about it here on the board and i know that Thais drink and drive but like i said many farang consider them self better as Thais.. but obviously not when it comes to drunk driving.

Thank god most here see drunk driving as something evil no matter who drives Thai or farang. But the "but they do it too" defense just feels so wrong.

Im no johny do good you seen my remarks about drugs in the other topics. I just dont like to be endangered by others when i go out and drive my bike its dangerous enough without drunk drivers.

At the end of the day if we knew it was wrong / dangerous to drink in drive in our home countries I suspect it would still be the case here or elsewhere. While I don't condone it, like I mentioned earlier that places like Pattaya, Phuket and Samui don't have the luxury of taxis everywhere 24/7 and combined with the hassles (see myphuketlife's avatar), I can see why people do drive when over the limit.

One caveat about taking taxi home from the bar - even though they 'may' be awake and sober as a judge, doesn't mean the other idiots falling out of the Thai and Farang nightclubs - curtain motels etc at that hour are.

Want to avoid being in danger by all drunk drivers? Drive during rush hour.

[robblok]

Rob, Merit Making is next month mate. Save your crusade when 3500 injured and 400 dead Thais during the 'annual cull of the new year" happens.

I don't drink and drive and I don't know any farangs that do in BKK. In places like Phuket and Pattaya to a lessor extent I imagine it would be higher percentage of both farang and Thai drunk drivers.

Thing is i am a farang and i don't go after Thais like that. You are right about next month its a dangerous time. But its just that there are still plenty of farangs that seem to think its ok to drink and drive. Thank god only 2 idiots in this topic. I did not think you would drink and drive you seem to full of your family to want to risk that.

I just started the topic after i read a few polls about it here on the board and i know that Thais drink and drive but like i said many farang consider them self better as Thais.. but obviously not when it comes to drunk driving.

Thank god most here see drunk driving as something evil no matter who drives Thai or farang. But the "but they do it too" defense just feels so wrong.

Im no johny do good you seen my remarks about drugs in the other topics. I just dont like to be endangered by others when i go out and drive my bike its dangerous enough without drunk drivers.

At the end of the day if we knew it was wrong / dangerous to drink in drive in our home countries I suspect it would still be the case here or elsewhere. While I don't condone it, like I mentioned earlier that places like Pattaya, Phuket and Samui don't have the luxury of taxis everywhere 24/7 and combined with the hassles (see myphuketlife's avatar), I can see why people do drive when over the limit.

One caveat about taking taxi home from the bar - even though they 'may' be awake and sober as a judge, doesn't mean the other idiots falling out of the Thai and Farang nightclubs - curtain motels etc at that hour are.

Want to avoid being in danger by all drunk drivers? Drive during rush hour.

I can see the reasons for drunk driving, i just don't think they are worth it. Sure the best thing for me was to stay at home locked away then i would be perfectly safe.

Thing is its just selfish to drink and drive and if they catch people doing it and hurting someone they can lock them up and throw away the key for all i care.

Anyway im going into traffic on my bike now.. lets see if i survive an other day .

[Eazy-Going]

Those of you from UK how severe is the penalty for first time offense?

Considering your over the limit and no accident involved.

least 6 months

First time offense if caught driving over the alcohol limit is usually a court case, a hefty fine and also revokation of your driving license. The driving ban is usually dependant upon how many units over the limit you are but as a rule of thumb, one unit over is not tolerated, and you can expect a ban of at least 6 months. This is also a criminal act in the UK, you will have a criminal record, your insurance premiums go up, you can go to prison, you have points on your license and there is a massive stigma attached to it, which is rightly so.

I do not condone drink/driving at all but it seems to be done very widely in Thailand. My g/f's brother-in-law is a taxi driver part time in BKK, he is always 3 sheets to the wind, as are most of his taxi driving colleagues, so are you safe getting into a taxi??? Firthermore, when I lived in BKK, there was a motorcycle taxi rank below my balcony, I would watch the drivers drinking all night and regularly take fares before coming back to continue the party...I would rather have the control of the wheel if I had been drinking rather than a severely pissed up Thai taxi driver, at least I have more confidence in my driving skills than theirs.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

A lot of very aggressive statements out there.. In such an environment I think I'll pass on making some comments to the OP's assumptions. (Ok, maybe just one: public transport in Thailand is really not that great. There's just one excepton I can think of and that's Bangkok.)

Everywhere else you'd better have a driver.

[yabaaaa]

Its simple in their eyes they dont think they will get caught easily and that in Thailand "anything goes" I fail to see why people drink so that they get so drunk anyway never mind the fact they then try and drive, theyre just as dangerous drunk staggering down the road stumbling onto it. Its the same for many foreign smokers who think its ok to smoke in smoking areas, at my condo i saw one right under the No smoking sign and told them it was no smoking to which they replied it was ok to smoke and even though I was polite they said it was no problem and why i was telling them as a farang. The woman who was smoking was on the phone at the time and she was saying to whoever she was talking to "can you believe it a Farang is telling me I cant smoke here" I told them ok dont worry Ill ask security to tell you its NO smoking here. Of course as soon as security came round the fag was gone and the "sorry sorry" she started spouting to them. Theyv'e got the opinion laws and rules dont matter here and especially to them.

[keemapoot]

I would venture to guess that the OP is a mormon, or something similarly weird. Sure drunk driving is a no no. But ranting about it just exposes who you are.

[sarahsbloke]

There is rather an excessive amount of things seen as wrong/evil/sinful in my country of origin.

That's one of the reasons I live here.

We really don't need the self righteous from overseas, trying to tell the locals how they should behave and how their laws should be enforced.

When you come and live in another country you should make the effort to fit in, instead of trying to get them to change to your ways.

That is the polite way to behave.

I wonder how many of the 'string up drunk drivers' brigade break the speed limit, I wonder how many of them have failed to get a Thai driving licence, or allow their unlicensed Thai wife to drive the car, and are therefore uninsured.

I wonder how many of them break the law when they fail to read the Thai road signs, or knock off motorcyclists who are perfectly entitled to overtake on the left?

What shocks me most about much of the ex-pat community, is not their intolerance of local ways and laws, but their total lack of respect for the country they live in by not bothering to learn to read, write and speak Thai.

(Sorry turned into another rant, I really must get down to the pharmacist and get some more self prescribed meds)

Edited March 25, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[StreetCowboy]

I would venture to guess that the OP is a mormon, or something similarly weird. Sure drunk driving is a no no. But ranting about it just exposes who you are.

? What is weird about Mormons?

Back on topic...

I think the poster has raised a valid point, and its quite topical, given a recent spate of threads boasting about reckless and dangerous driving, including drink-driving.

It might be helpful if someone who has killed someone whilst drink-driving could post, explaining how they felt the day before they killed the person, and the day after.

The view that "drink driving does't hurt anyone, and I am very careful and a safe driver even when half-cut, because I have not killed anyone yet" is not a very persuasive argument, and wouldn't stand as a defence in most courts around the world.

SC

[colino]

Because they can

Where we come from there are consequences, here only if you have an accident you have a problem and were never going to do that when were drunk

On one episode of Big Trouble in Tourist Thailand they had a Thai tourist Police woman say drink driving is not a really a serious crime here unless you have an accident.

colino

[TAWP]

To be honest, I have yet to be in a car with a foreigner here that has driven while drunk...however every good [Thai] friend with a car has at some point or another driven me while they where drunk to some degree.

Take it for what it is worth.

Edit: Added [Thai].

Edited March 25, 2010 by TAWP

[SiangDeeMahk]

Drunken driving is a very minor offense IMHO (not to be confused with injuring someone while under the influence)

I don't consider victimless crimes to be crimes at all.

Oh.. wait a sec..

Are you suggesting that someone who empties an entire clip of an unlicensed AK-47 assault rifle straight up in the air directly over a schoolyard full of children, hasn't committed a major crime, just as long as none of the falling bullets injure or kill any of the children?

(cause drivin a car drunk is pretty darn close to that)

Would you, as a parent of one of those children, or as the person who lived next to the schoolyard (putting you harms way) feel that person's actions were minor? Would you want them only to be facing minor penalties (deterrents) from continuing to commit that (victimless) crime?

Reckless Endangerment is not a minor crime (as Petty Larceny might be).. certainly not just because the perpetrator was lucky enough not to have killed a victim THIS TIME), but because it shows someone who clearly (and repeatedly?) displays a proclivity to not give a crap about other people's lives. People who are willing to do stuff like that should be dealt with (and disarmed/prevented from repeating) BEFORE they actually end up committing "non-victimless" crimes. That's why penalties for reckless endangerment should be "soberingly" harsh, if not, what would be the perpetrators incentive not to do it again..?

There's a reason it's illegal to drink and drive (and not just illegal to kill someone with your car while you're drunk).

If you insist on referencing "victimless crimes", I feel the need to point out the wide range of seriousness in the types of "victimless crimes" that exist. I would put "willingly getting behind the wheel of a deadly machine while too impaired to prevent it from killing other people (a statistically likely outcome of drunk driving), WAY up farther on the scale, than say, some other "victimless crimes", like recreational use of a controlled substance, or the sale of ones body (where the likely outcome may be a binge of crunchy snacks, or some bedsheets in dire need of laundering).

You just can't sweep all of those "victimless" crimes into a single pile, and dismiss them all equally as not being crimes, under the justification of "there's no victim, so they're all equally minor crimes".

Of course, if you try to add Amulet Protection, the "mai bpen rai" factor, and the great "tea money fix-all" into these equations, you can at least get a glimpse into the profoundly disturbing (yet often seen) Thai justifications for DWI, but as far as the Western approach, (which is what the OP's question was about), it's simply ludicrous to try to dismiss DWI as a minor crime; victimless or not. In truth, the only REAL equation that REALLY matters is: Life {Flesh + Bone} ÷ {Gasoline + Steel + Velocity x Alcohol} (eventually) = DEATH. (whether it happens this drive home, or not until the next drive home.. because eventually things will fall on the wrong side of the odds, and then in one horrible bloody second, it's too late)

I got some interesting food for thought from these two pages, before writing my reply; maybe they'll be interesing to you too.

http://law.jrank.org/pages/2257/Victimless...e-Critique.html

http://www.drunkdrivinglawyers.com/alcohol...ted-crashes.cfm

[StreetCowboy]

Because they can, back home is another story.

Exactly, every day l see farangs on bikes with no crash hats, same thing. Reason, no police presence, everybody knows where they are doing the traffic light ambush. It's that "laid back thing". Where l live we know where the drink drive ambush is and at what time.

The big difference between hatless motorcyclists and drink-drivers is that the lack of a hat doesn't put everyone else at risk.

I've never worn a helmet on a moto-taxi, as I use them so rarely that it would not be worth carrying the helmet with me on the off-chance that I might need it.

SC

[StreetCowboy]

Anyway i think most users really don't care that they endanger others. The remarks like the thai do it too.. doesn't really cut it because we are not Thai and should know better.

What makes you think 'we' know any better than the Thais do?

Maybe 'we' have got it wrong, and the Thais are right.

Sounds sort of racist.

Agreed, OP is going a bit over the top on this one.

Drinking and driving is tolerated by the law here - until you hit someone that is- so who is the OP to decide that a whole nation is wrong and we must all do what he says.

Jeez, get over yourself

You need to be very careful on this forum, as many people lack your sophisticated sense of humour, and might respond to posts such as these thinking that they were meant seriously, and not reducto ad absurditum (apologies for any errors in the endings).

You are quite right to highlight the implicit racism in the OP's comments and some that follow. However, to be fair, I think most westerners will have been better-educated regarding the perils of drink-driving than appears to be the case here, and therefore ought to know better. Furthermore, I understand that the concepts of risk and cause and effect are not so well-understood here - there is much more of an "Ive got away with it this time so therefore I'll never have an accident...Ooops - that was fate, not carelessness and probability!" Anyway, I think the OP was particularly targetting Westerners, who ought to know better, and exhorting them to maintain the standards of behaviour that they would apply in their own countries, rather than reverting to reckless anarchy here simply because they can get away with it.

Other posters may confirm with better knowledge of the law, but I think that you'll find that drink-driving is not tolerated by the law here, although it may be tolerated by the police, who fail to enforce the law.

"Jeez, get over yourself" - I'm not really sure what that means, so I'll ignore that comment.

SC

[StreetCowboy]

Because they can, back home is another story.

Exactly, every day l see farangs on bikes with no crash hats, same thing. Reason, no police presence, everybody knows where they are doing the traffic light ambush. It's that "laid back thing". Where l live we know where the drink drive ambush is and at what time.

The big difference between hatless motorcyclists and drink-drivers is that the lack of a hat doesn't put everyone else at risk.

I've never worn a helmet on a moto-taxi, as I use them so rarely that it would not be worth carrying the helmet with me on the off-chance that I might need it.

SC

You miss the point, here, you can get away with it, a thousand times to 1, what ever it is.

My point, though, was that you don't know whether the 1 will be the last one in the thousand, or the first. Now, if that is some daft old codger spilling his brains on the tarmac, well, c'est la vie, and if he hadn't wanted to die he'd have worn a hard hat, but when the one in a thousand could be a drunk-driver's SUV mounting the pavement and killing my children, well, I take a bit more of an interest in that risk. I suppose that example is a little bit remote, but equally, I don't want some pissed-up idiot driving into the back of my taxi as I sleep my way home from a night out on the town.

Sooner or later, anyone that regularly rides a motorcycle is going to come off; wearing a helmet greatly increases the likelihood that you can come off more than once...

SC

[steve187]

Those of you from UK how severe is the penalty for first time offense?

Considering your over the limit and no accident involved.

On 1st conviction for drink driving magistrates MUST disqualify for at least 12 months, + points on license + a largish fine, 2nd offence at least a 18 month ban + points and fine, maybe a spell in prison especially if near Christmas.

[yabaaaa]

There is rather an excessive amount of things seen as wrong/evil/sinful in my country of origin.

That's one of the reasons I live here.

We really don't need the self righteous from overseas, trying to tell the locals how they should behave and how their laws should be enforced.

When you come and live in another country you should make the effort to fit in, instead of trying to get them to change to your ways.

That is the polite way to behave.

I wonder how many of the 'string up drunk drivers' brigade break the speed limit, I wonder how many of them have failed to get a Thai driving licence, or allow their unlicensed Thai wife to drive the car, and are therefore uninsured.

I wonder how many of them break the law when they fail to read the Thai road signs, or knock off motorcyclists who are perfectly entitled to overtake on the left?

What shocks me most about much of the ex-pat community, is not their intolerance of local ways and laws, but their total lack of respect for the country they live in by not bothering to learn to read, write and speak Thai.

(Sorry turned into another rant, I really must get down to the pharmacist and get some more self prescribed meds)

Sheesh and I wonder how many folk die needlessly because of this!! Cant remember the last time not reading /speaking Thai killed anyone??

[yabaaaa]

.

What makes you think 'we' know any better than the Thais do?

Maybe 'we' have got it wrong, and the Thais are right.

Sounds sort of racist.

13500 dead on motorbikes a year make me think Thais have got it wrong

[ilyelol]

says the overweight guy with a buddah amulet

[IanForbes]

I'd certainly rather have someone driving afer a half a dozen beer than some of the idiots I see talking on their cel phones while driving or riding.

[colino]

Those of you from UK how severe is the penalty for first time offense?

Considering your over the limit and no accident involved.

On 1st conviction for drink driving magistrates MUST disqualify for at least 12 months, + points on license + a largish fine, 2nd offense at least a 18 month ban + points and fine, maybe a spell in prison especially if near Christmas.

Dont forget as well the points and the disqualification stay on your license for ten years.

Making it very expensive to get insured, and the courts can make you retake your driving test and get a medical report from a GP, ( that can cost 60 pound + just for the report ) oh and they like to get you in court and banned within 7 days

Colino

[sokal]

Because they can, back home is another story.

I think i must agree on this one.. because they can. This means that the repression at home works and there is no other way to do it. I mean people wont behave out of the goodness of their hearts.

Like i said when it was a victimless crime i would not care one bit. But a car or a motorbike is a murderweapon in the hands of a drunk driver.

Drive on the roads at your own risk. I drink and drive in Thailand because the laws are practical and I can do it responsibly.

[sokal]

Anyway i think most users really don't care that they endanger others. The remarks like the thai do it too.. doesn't really cut it because we are not Thai and should know better.

What makes you think 'we' know any better than the Thais do?

Maybe 'we' have got it wrong, and the Thais are right.

Sounds sort of racist.

Agreed, OP is going a bit over the top on this one.

Drinking and driving is tolerated by the law here - until you hit someone that is- so who is the OP to decide that a whole nation is wrong and we must all do what he says.

Jeez, get over yourself

Its not tolerated, if you get caught it is not. Its just that the chance of getting caught here is less.. and wow an other drunk driving genius. Bet you make your family proud.

i have been caught, nothing some money cant solve. Why are you trying to westernize Thailand and turn it into a nanny state ?

[Tedhead]

Easy to pick on the farang on TV but in my experience (when I used to stay out late) was the accidents I invariably saw at 2:00 am in a taxi on the way home were those of local persuasion crunching up their BMW 3 series or similar trying to impress their gal after too many Black Sodas.

I think the point is that, whatever about Thai people never having to been brought to task over drink-driving, Europeans/Aussies/Americans are well aware of the consequences of drunk-driving, have lived in societies where it is severely dealt with, and should know better.

I think the OP's right to ask the question about the type of farang in Thailand that drink-drive. Many aren't exactly out of the top social drawer at home and their sense of social responsibility only holds for as long as it's enforced upon them. There have probably always been the thoughts in their head that "These drink-driving laws are ridiculous...I can handle my beer...Odds of a pile-up are miniscule...never happen to me...."

Basically, they're idiots at home and they're idiots abroad. The change of air doesn't increase their IQ and the lax law enforcement brings allows them to dispense with a sense of social responsibility.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Contrary to the OP, I didn't take the poll results to take that a huge number of foreigners drink and drive. To me a higher-than-expected number of people DONT drink and drive. Even when considering that many of those will live in places like Bangkok, don't live in Thailand at all, don't own vehicles and/or don't think at all, there still was a strong majority claiming they don't drink and drive, IIRC.