Thai Troops Retreat In Face Of 80,000 Protesters

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[Sunderland]

One day there will be freedom ...

[Chaimai]

One day there will be freedom ...

I thought Thailand was already the "Land of the free"

[Sunderland]

Only in songs and fairy tales ...

[Sunderland]

Edging towards battle stations now ... rather than fairy tales and songs

[Sunderland]

After another 30 minutes deadline:

Jatuporn: "Agree to talks on our terms or we'll huff and puff til we blow the 11th regiment down!"

Abhisit: "Ohhhhhhh ... that sounds awfully nasty. Hang on, I'll call my wife and ask her what to do."

Suthep: "Hello. What? They want to do what? I don't know. I'm out of ideas. This is not like selling land to rich families. How should I know? I'm not even an MP. I'm just here to hold your hand, darling."

Abhisit: "Ohhhhhhhh. Mmmmmmm. Errrrrrrrrrrrrr."

Jatuporn: "Well? Are you gonna sit down and talk or just fly around in the sky all day?"

Abhisit: "How about next month?"

Jatuporn: "No good. That's it. This is the final final final battle of battles. You have until 2pm to come up with something better or we are going to take this to the next level!"

Abhisit: "Oh God! What are you gonna do? Don't hurt me ... please."

Jatuporn: "We're going to strip naked and dance in front of the 11th regiment until you dissolve parliament."

Abhisit: "Then we will have to declare a state of emergency."

Jatuporn: "So, the women will burn their bras! A million bras will burn on Phaholyothin Road and you will be responsible."

Abhisit: "Ok! Enough! I give up! You win!"

Edited March 28, 2010 by Sunderland

[losworld]

I'm pleased there is no violence. I hope they get their way and get an election. Abhisit isn't a bad man, he just isn't elected.

He was elected by the Members Of Parliament with full quorum, and all duly elected in 2007.

All the oppositions attempts at votes of no confidence have failed miserably.

By the laws of the land, and all logic, he is a 'Properly Elected Prime Minister of Thailand'.

And he is not a bad man, which is a rarity in this seat it seams.

But still his party took 236mil Baht from 'a petrochemical company', which is clearly over the allowance of 30mil. For this alone his party would have to be 'duly' dissolved. It is this little Oxford-Chinese elite that is pissing off the people and I can totally comprehend them. This here is little Britain with the nobs owning everything and the peasants are cattle and serfs. And it's the same in many places... And just not to finish to quick here. Thaksin is all the same a bum, since he ripped off the state by manifold which 'he has given to the poor'. His media campaign has worked out though and people still see him as rescuer of the oppressed. His gang is also not interested in the welfare of the state, their ALL gangsters. Two party system or the left-right paradigm is a farce in many countries to get the people to fight each other rather than seeing the puppet masters aka banks, industrials and military complex.

very true... divide and conquer... a magic trick always requires one to follow one hand while the other completes the act

[noel2499rk]

Sorry I think I broke rule 2 of the forum!

[Sunderland]

It seems appropriate that the proposed talks will take place at King Prajadhipok Institute as it's a stone throw away from Srithanya Hospital, where they keep the loonies!!

[frodo]

"Get weapons ready. They fooled us into waiting in the sun while they floated here&there in helicopter," Jatuporn told protesters.

Weapons? I thought those peace loving folks had no weapons and would overthrow the government with their bare hands, blood, and flowers.

The truth about the reds has finally been revealed by Jatuporn himself.

[Sunderland]

Yes, but what kind of weapons? Foot clappers, pla ra and the din of the worst folk singers???

[jdinasia]

Yes, but what kind of weapons? Foot clappers, pla ra and the din of the worst folk singers???

Ummm perhaps it is Sae Daeng's grenades, or Arisman's petrol bombs? Remember those 2 ARE red leaders and have certainly spoken clearly about it in public.

[djayz]

The yellow shirts could muster in their best days never more than 20,000 people, if nobody likes to lose face, it is easy to make a deal in which elections are hold let's say in six months time. At least Abhisit will have the chance to show he is legitimate. The fact that (certain) Bangkok people are starting to feeling the pinch is only a good sign. The protestors are on the street to cause inconvenience. If there was no pressure or inconvenience each and every demonstration was useless.

The way I look at things, the ability to put a lot of warm bodies on the street is related to having a large population of idle "n'er do wells" available, who have nothing better to do than complain. When I look at a long caravan of Red Shirts, what I see is a population of folks who are not usefully employed in any productive enterprise to feed their families (unless you accept that they are all being paid a salary to appear, in which case they are simply actors) - and all I can think is: "Do I really want such idle, unemployed people to be selecting the next government of Thailand?"

The argument between the Thai elites and the lower economic strata of Thailand is the same argument being played out all over the world:

One side says - The pie is divided unequally, and my team feels that our slice of pie is too small - so we want your side to accept smaller slices - and shift the distribution of the existing pie so that we get larger slices. We deserve more pie!

The other side says: Just listen to us, and let us run things, and we will make the pie MUCH bigger - so that everyone gets more pie, even without changing the angles of the slices.

In a nation with an ever-growing population, the first approach will never work out in the long run. If you just want to redistribute existing wealth, everyone will eventually become poor.

What the first group wants is both benefits: You give us some of your pie now, while at the same time, you go off and do your thing to make the pie bigger for everyone - while we sit here eating pie in the shade.

The second group says: Uh, sorry, but - that's not how things work. If we are going to put our blood and sweat into the very hard work of making EVERYONE's pie bigger, we want to reap big rewards - not watch the fruits of our labor flow to less industrious people.

In one form or another, this battle is playing out all over the world.

I have not been everywhere in Thailand, and there may be localities that have seriously declined since I first visited Thailand in 1995. But - everywhere that I have been - including remote rural parts of Thailand - things have gotten significantly better, across the spectrum. Better roads, better clinics, more reliable electricity and clean water, better roads, better schools, better telecommunications and transportation, etc. Some of the improvement was before Thaksin, some was during his tenure, and some occurred after Thaksin's departure. But - the trend has always been upwards. Every Thai's slice of pie has gotten bigger - but - if you listen to the Red Shirts, you would think that their villages have been raped and pillaged since 2006, and everything is going downhill rapidly. Well - to my own eyes - this is simply fabrication.

I have seen absolutely NOTHING that even remotely suggests to me in any way that the Red Shirt leadership has any ideas about ways to make the pie bigger. A rising tide lifts all boats - but they have no brilliant thoughts about how to bring on a rising tide. They just want to pursue the "Robin Hood scenario": Take from the rich and give to the poor. Well, Robin Hood may have been popular among the peasants - but I'm not so sure he would have made a great Monarch, or great Prime Minister.

Superficial populism can be seductive to the weaker-minded parts of the electorate (a great example being the travesty that put the current US administration into power), but it usually damages the long-term prospects of success for the nation.

The Red Shirts are all worked up about the illegitimacy of the Abhisit government - and also about the unjust distribution of wealth and power throughout Thailand. But - I never hear them talk about substantive policies and improvements that they would make. They are focused on superficial issues - but do not appear to have any transformational proposals for how to run the country. As far as I can tell, they want to pursue the exact same agenda as the current government - they just want their favorite sons to be sitting in the big chairs. That does not seem like a very compelling argument in favor of immediately unseating the current government.

Perfect and to the point!

[oceano]

Follow the news of thaivisa about the march of red people of today sunday 28 traslated in Italian language.

Le notizie di oggi domenica 28 tradotte in Italiano da Thaivisa.

http://ariosforum.it/index.php?topic=1089....5;topicseen#new

[fabianfred]

Red shirts should go back to school they're obviously in need of an education. Watching them makes a good case AGAINST democracy...sigh...

naturally you consider yourself to be educated

and what use is modern education...when it just forces so-called facts down kids throats....often just popular theories and not proven...giving them headaches and a dislike and resistance to formal education...covering subjects which not one in a thousand will find useful after their schooling is over.

Most Government workers are yellow shirts because they are afraid for their jobs..

Edited March 28, 2010 by fabianfred

[jdinasia]

Red shirts should go back to school they're obviously in need of an education. Watching them makes a good case AGAINST democracy...sigh...

naturally you consider yourself to be educated

and what use is modern education...when it just forces so-called facts down kids throats....often just popular theories and not proven...giving them headaches and a dislike and resistance to formal education...covering subjects which not one in a thousand will find useful after their schooling is over.

Most Government workers are yellow shirts because they are afraid for their jobs..

Ah, yes obviously you think that the poor of the country don't need expanded educational opportuities!

I am curious though about where you derive your information that "Most Government workers are yellow" ?

[Arkady]

IMO, I don't see that an election will lead to a PTP government.

In the 2007 election, the votes were pretty even, with the PPP getting a few more seats than the Democrats. Smaller parties got the balance.

I don't see that changing too much, and maybe even more going towards the Democrats or the smaller parties and away from the PTP.

The smaller parties would still probably back the Democrats, which means a Democrat led coalition.

I agree that elections would probably not lead to a Pheua Thai majority government but Thaksin hopes they would at least increase their numbers to encourage the smaller parties to join them in a coalition. Since the global economy is improving slowly but steadily and the Dems are doing a reasonable albeit not perfect job on domestic economic management, he certainly doesn't want to let them stay in power long enough to take credit for the economic recovery, as he did in 2003. As things stand now, the Dems don't have enough substantial achievements to trumpet in an election and the New Politics Party may come out and split their vote in some critical urban constituencies. Another important factor is Newin's Bhumjai Thai which hasn't put in a great showing in Isaan by-elections but another 12-18 months might give them time to raise their game as well as their war chest. More time also favours the campaign funds of all the government parties as they need more time to skim off funds from disbursals of the government budget that have not yet taken place. Pheua Thai on the other hand can't get its nose into the government trough and will need to depend on Thaksin's overseas remittances.

reasonable job, not perfect on domestic economic recovery!!!!, he is burdening the country with a massive debt, that will cripple it for years to come.

Thailand s Cabinet on Wednesday approved a proposal from the Ministry of Finance to borrow US$1 billion from the World Bank Thursday, May 14, 2009.

Thailand's cabinet has approved plans to borrow 800 billion baht ($22.7 billion) to finance stimulus spending and fiscal deficits between now and 2011, Reuters quoted Finance Minister Korn Chatikavanij as saying Wednesday.

I am sorry Nalak but you are just regurgitating the content of Thaksin's phone-ins for the past few months without taking into account that these are only intended for his poorly educated followers and make no economic sense. You have to look at Thailand's debt capacity relative to GDP. From that perspective it can easily afford to increase debt to these levels and it will not cripple the country for years to come. In fact it is prudent to use debt financed public investment and current expenses to as an automatic stabiliser when aggregate demand from the private sector and the external economy falters, rather than let the economy tank. Thailand's stimulus package relative to GDP is insignificant relative to China's and public debt relative to GDP is much lower than in several European countries and the US. The developed countries with high public debt to GDP are the ones that are crippled for years to come because, even as their economies recover their growth rates will not match those of emerging markets and it will therefore take much longer to cover the debt with tax revenues. The US is in a terrible position because its obligations are set to balloon as baby boomers stop contributing and start being a net burden on public finances. Southern European countries such as Spain are in trouble with private sector debt as well as public sector debt, while Thailand's private sector debt is relatively modest.

Thaksin has a pitiful understanding of economics but likes to use economics to pull the wool over the eyes of people even more ignorant than himself. He did that as prime minister when he made out that repaying the IMF debt slightly early was some sort of achievement and that Thailand gained an advantage from it. Nonsense of course, but he got a lot of mileage out it. That is his style. Please leave him and his bullsh*t to rot away in obscure foreign countries and come back only as a bag of bones.

[Publicus]

IMO, I don't see that an election will lead to a PTP government.

In the 2007 election, the votes were pretty even, with the PPP getting a few more seats than the Democrats. Smaller parties got the balance.

I don't see that changing too much, and maybe even more going towards the Democrats or the smaller parties and away from the PTP.

The smaller parties would still probably back the Democrats, which means a Democrat led coalition.

I agree that elections would probably not lead to a Pheua Thai majority government but Thaksin hopes they would at least increase their numbers to encourage the smaller parties to join them in a coalition. Since the global economy is improving slowly but steadily and the Dems are doing a reasonable albeit not perfect job on domestic economic management, he certainly doesn't want to let them stay in power long enough to take credit for the economic recovery, as he did in 2003. As things stand now, the Dems don't have enough substantial achievements to trumpet in an election and the New Politics Party may come out and split their vote in some critical urban constituencies. Another important factor is Newin's Bhumjai Thai which hasn't put in a great showing in Isaan by-elections but another 12-18 months might give them time to raise their game as well as their war chest. More time also favours the campaign funds of all the government parties as they need more time to skim off funds from disbursals of the government budget that have not yet taken place. Pheua Thai on the other hand can't get its nose into the government trough and will need to depend on Thaksin's overseas remittances.

reasonable job, not perfect on domestic economic recovery!!!!, he is burdening the country with a massive debt, that will cripple it for years to come.

Thailand s Cabinet on Wednesday approved a proposal from the Ministry of Finance to borrow US$1 billion from the World Bank Thursday, May 14, 2009.

Thailand's cabinet has approved plans to borrow 800 billion baht ($22.7 billion) to finance stimulus spending and fiscal deficits between now and 2011, Reuters quoted Finance Minister Korn Chatikavanij as saying Wednesday.

I am sorry Nalak but you are just regurgitating the content of Thaksin's phone-ins for the past few months without taking into account that these are only intended for his poorly educated followers and make no economic sense. You have to look at Thailand's debt capacity relative to GDP. From that perspective it can easily afford to increase debt to these levels and it will not cripple the country for years to come. In fact it is prudent to use debt financed public investment and current expenses to as an automatic stabiliser when aggregate demand from the private sector and the external economy falters, rather than let the economy tank. Thailand's stimulus package relative to GDP is insignificant relative to China's and public debt relative to GDP is much lower than in several European countries and the US. The developed countries with high public debt to GDP are the ones that are crippled for years to come because, even as their economies recover their growth rates will not match those of emerging markets and it will therefore take much longer to cover the debt with tax revenues. The US is in a terrible position because its obligations are set to balloon as baby boomers stop contributing and start being a net burden on public finances. Southern European countries such as Spain are in trouble with private sector debt as well as public sector debt, while Thailand's private sector debt is relatively modest.

Thaksin has a pitiful understanding of economics but likes to use economics to pull the wool over the eyes of people even more ignorant than himself. He did that as prime minister when he made out that repaying the IMF debt slightly early was some sort of achievement and that Thailand gained an advantage from it. Nonsense of course, but he got a lot of mileage out it. That is his style. Please leave him and his bullsh*t to rot away in obscure foreign countries and come back only as a bag of bones.

Somebody's debt balloon just got pricked. The immediate election balloon already is full of hot air.

[DickFarang]

So what happens when the army decides not to back down in a particular situation?

Eventually, there is going to be violence.

And the reds will come up with some lame propaganda to say that it was Abhisit's fault.

I was in Bangkok during October 1976, the protest started off much like this one, poor people protesting the hijacking of the government by a political party they didn't like, when the military finally got fed up with them throwing things at them, they opened fire, helicopters straffed the crowds, dozens, hundreds (no one really knows)wounded or killed - the protesters retailiated by hanging 11 pro-government supporters from telephone poles around the city, including an American soldier on leave who had just been severly cut with a banana knife, he used an opposition flag he found in a trash can as a bandage - they saw that as an insult and attacked & hung him - wrong place at the wrong time. I'm not normally a sky is falling kinda guy, but that demonstration started out peacfully as well..........I hope the Thai Army learned from past mistakes - the Govt was turned over to the Students after I believe.

At last somebody who has something to tell.

I liked your post.

[yoshiwara]

So what happens when the army decides not to back down in a particular situation?

Eventually, there is going to be violence.

And the reds will come up with some lame propaganda to say that it was Abhisit's fault.

I was in Bangkok during October 1976, the protest started off much like this one, poor people protesting the hijacking of the government by a political party they didn't like, when the military finally got fed up with them throwing things at them, they opened fire, helicopters straffed the crowds, dozens, hundreds (no one really knows)wounded or killed - the protesters retailiated by hanging 11 pro-government supporters from telephone poles around the city, including an American soldier on leave who had just been severly cut with a banana knife, he used an opposition flag he found in a trash can as a bandage - they saw that as an insult and attacked & hung him - wrong place at the wrong time. I'm not normally a sky is falling kinda guy, but that demonstration started out peacfully as well..........I hope the Thai Army learned from past mistakes - the Govt was turned over to the Students after I believe.

At last somebody who has something to tell.

I liked your post.

Unfortunately, as a Thaksin apologist, you are unable to go back just one year to the red violence of Songkran 2009.

For you the past is a Woolworth's Pick and Mix Counter.

[george]

This topic continues here:

Thailand's political landmark talks end without resolution:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thailand-s-P...ks-t351224.html