Thai Government, Protesters Edge Towards Talk

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Thai government, protesters edge towards talk

by Thanaporn Promyamyai

BANGKOK (AFP) -- Thailand's Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva and anti-government protesters on Sunday edged closer to landmark talks aimed at ending two weeks of mass rallies.

The red-shirted supporters of ousted leader Thaksin Shinawatra, jubilant after their latest demonstration forced a military retreat, had threatened to march on the military barracks where Abhisit has been holed up.

The premier said in a special television address that he would not be forced into meeting with the Reds, who are demanding fresh elections to replace the government, which they condemn as elitist and illegitimate.

"If protesters come to the 11th Infantry Barracks, I will not be there to talk," Abhisit said as some 60,000 "Red Shirts" massed in Bangkok's old quarter in preparation for the march.

"This is not to deny efforts to find a solution, but the talks should be held in a good climate," said Abhisit, who came to power in 2008 after Thaksin's allies were removed in a court ruling.

Reds leader Nattawut Saikua suspended plans to descend on the barracks, located on Bangkok's northern outskirts, to give the government a chance to consider an offer for negotiations with a small delegation.

"If you don't want our people to march, four representatives will go and talk to you," he said. "We will wait for Abhisit to set the venue."

The premier's secretary Korbsak Sabhavasu said that proposals for the negotiations had been issued to the anti-government camp.

"There will be three other people joining the prime minister for these talks," he said. He did not set a date but said they would likely be held at an educational institute in Bangkok.

Nattawut said the Red Shirts had "no objections" to those proposals.

"When a political fight comes to the point of talks among two parties, we hope we will achieve a good solution which will help the country move out of conflict," he said.

However, previous "talks about talks" have subsequently failed because of the protesters' demands that parliament be dissolved before they come to the meeting table, and by the government's offer to send only a junior minister.

The Reds are riding high after a rally Saturday that drew 80,000 people and forced troops to retreat from several security posts in the heart of the capital where they have been stationed since the demonstrations began.

Women threw flowers at truckloads of troops who left locations including the city's zoo and Buddhist temples, drawing cheers from protesters who turned the streets red with their colourful clothes and heart-shaped clappers.

The military has mounted a strong security operation involving 50,000 personnel for the demonstrations, which began on March 14 after a court ruling that seized 1.4 billion dollars of Thaksin's fortune.

The security measures, including a lockdown of parliament, which was surrounded by barricades and razor wire for a session this week, have been criticised as excessive.

Street demonstrations have passed off peacefully but the capital has been hit by an increasingly bloody series of explosions at government and army buildings.

A dozen people were injured over the weekend, including four soldiers wounded early Sunday when grenades were lobbed at the gate of an infantry barracks.

Saturday saw three explosions, targeting two television stations run by the army and the government, and another on the customs department.

Thaksin, who was removed in a 2006 coup and lives in exile to avoid a jail sentence for corruption, addresses his supporters regularly by videolink and has urged them to increase pressure on the government.

He has also raised the prospect of a campaign of civil disobedience if Abhisit continues to reject demands to dissolve parliament.

-- ©Copyright AFP 2010-03-28

Published with written approval from AFP.

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[webfact]

Related topic

Bangkok Red-Shirt Rally - Live Updates - Sunday

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Bangkok-Red-...da-t351054.html

[webfact]

PM Accepts Proposal for Talks; Might be Broadcast

BANGKOK: -- Minister to the Prime Minister's Office Sathit Wongnongtheoy has revealed that the prime minister has agreed to proposals from the red shirt leaders to schedule talks. PM Secretary General Korbsak Sapavasu is now settling the details with red shirt leaders as to the location of the talks which will take place.

Initial reports indicate that talks will take place at the King Prachadhipok Institute between Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva and Veera Musikapong, Jatuporn Prompan, Nattawut Saikua, and Weng Thojirakarn. There are discussions taking place that the negotiations might be broadcast live. However, a time frame has not been set.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjejiva announced on a live television broadcast this morning that he is not willing to negotiate with leaders of the Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship if they bring their protesters to pressure him in front of the 11th Infantry Regiment. He said he is not denying the possibility of reconciliatory talks. However, Abhisit went on to say that using protesters to pressure him is not the right approach.

Abhisit thanked the general public for putting up with the current political situation. He revealed that he has gotten a tremendous amount of feedback from people who say the government should take action against the protesters.

Abhisit reiterated that, as long as the protesters demonstrate peacefully, they will remain free from prosecution. If and when they chose to break the law by entering any private or government property, the authorities will not hesitate to take action, as allowed by the law.

The prime minister said he will do everything in his power to keep the country peaceful. He said that, although he may not be at the 11th Infantry, he is still in control of the situation and is in constant contact with security leaders.

When he made his televised address, the prime minister had not yet received an ultimatum from the DAAD leaders, demanding him to name a location for negotiations. The leaders said they were willing to meet with him without bringing the protesters along.

-- Tan Network 2010-03-28

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[givenall]

Talk, Talk and more talk. When will we see some action

[hammered]

It was either talks or the protestors storm a military compund and the military have littel choice but to take extreme measures. Glad to see everybody stepped back from that. However, will the talks result in anythign other than everyone getting breathing space from a critical moment?

[ChiangMaiFun]

Reds are starting to get concessions:

Abhisit has said he was willing to disband Parliament but there must be conditions attached

[Sunderland]

Government buying time to consider next move. If they were willing to agree to what the reds want, we wouldn't be where we stand today. Abhisit and friends will do all they can to hang onto power. Thaksin and friends will do all they can to seize power.

Corrupt barstewards ... every one of them.

[hammered]

Reds are starting to get concessions:

Abhisit has said he was willing to disband Parliament but there must be conditions attached

He mentioned three conditions for an election a few days ago. I cant remember them all but one was the right for any candidate to campaign without fear of attack anywhere

[Sunderland]

Talks should be fun after all the name calling that has gone on from the red shirt leaders.

Do you think they will apologise for throwing blood at his home? Will they share stories about the good old days?

Don't expect much compromise from either side.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Reds are starting to get concessions:

Abhisit has said he was willing to disband Parliament but there must be conditions attached

He mentioned three conditions for an election a few days ago. I cant remember them all but one was the right for any candidate to campaign without fear of attack anywhere

I believe that we can all agree on - he should not, however, use this as an excuse never to hold elections (which he will lose - and we all know it - that's the problem - if he is not fearful - then why fear?)

[lannarebirth]

Reds are starting to get concessions:

Abhisit has said he was willing to disband Parliament but there must be conditions attached

He mentioned three conditions for an election a few days ago. I cant remember them all but one was the right for any candidate to campaign without fear of attack anywhere

Correct. Another was to understand that his government had no jurisdiction over the courts and he could not negotiate favorable court concessions.

[hammered]

Reds are starting to get concessions:

Abhisit has said he was willing to disband Parliament but there must be conditions attached

He mentioned three conditions for an election a few days ago. I cant remember them all but one was the right for any candidate to campaign without fear of attack anywhere

I believe that we can all agree on - he should not, however, use this as an excuse never to hold elections (which he will lose - and we all know it - that's the problem - if he is not fearful - then why fear?)

An election will happen it is just a matter of when. I doubt Abhisit really cares about winning or losing as his party will always be there. However, other more shadowy characters may care a lot more. Abhisit himself is now as tarred as Thaksin in many eyes and the Dems may well need another leader.

The problem with talks for the reds is keeping all the Thaksin stuff off the agenda

[jdinasia]

Reds are starting to get concessions:

Abhisit has said he was willing to disband Parliament but there must be conditions attached

He mentioned three conditions for an election a few days ago. I cant remember them all but one was the right for any candidate to campaign without fear of attack anywhere

I believe that we can all agree on - he should not, however, use this as an excuse never to hold elections (which he will lose - and we all know it - that's the problem - if he is not fearful - then why fear?)

You already know the answer to that. He is the legitimate PM of the country. Thaksin's puppets never stepped down from office that they held (even though their legitimacy was not only in question due to their leaders participating in electoral fraud, but also because they could not govern effectively).

The Democrats will have to call elections at some point but to do so while under threat and attack (Arisman and SaeDaeng) would be stupid.

The fact that the current coalition holds over 50% of the MP's certainly seems to indicate that they COULD form the next government, but since most of the crap today can be traced back to Thaksin dissolving Parliament early it begs the question would holding early elections cause more problems than it would solve?

I would expect that the next elections will return similar results as last time with the Democrats picking up a few more seats. I would also expect that the people and parties that the PTP has lost would stay lost to them. That will have so many people crying "foul" when the Dems actually form the next government that it may as well stay the way it is for now.

[hammered]

This is starting to look like it will end badly which will be sad.

[jdinasia]

Reds are starting to get concessions:

Abhisit has said he was willing to disband Parliament but there must be conditions attached

He mentioned three conditions for an election a few days ago. I cant remember them all but one was the right for any candidate to campaign without fear of attack anywhere

I believe that we can all agree on - he should not, however, use this as an excuse never to hold elections (which he will lose - and we all know it - that's the problem - if he is not fearful - then why fear?)

An election will happen it is just a matter of when. I doubt Abhisit really cares about winning or losing as his party will always be there. However, other more shadowy characters may care a lot more. Abhisit himself is now as tarred as Thaksin in many eyes and the Dems may well need another leader.

The problem with talks for the reds is keeping all the Thaksin stuff off the agenda

I think that Abhisit and K. Korn have not been tarred by the same brush as Thaksin and both can effectively maintain their growing control on the Democrats.

[basjke]

An election will happen it is just a matter of when. I doubt Abhisit really cares about winning or losing as his party will always be there. However, other more shadowy characters may care a lot more. Abhisit himself is now as tarred as Thaksin in many eyes and the Dems may well need another leader.

The problem with talks for the reds is keeping all the Thaksin stuff off the agenda

So watch the reds refusingthe talks if they are live broadcasted since they then can not hide from their supporters anymore that it is all about thaksin.

[rixalex]

I doubt Abhisit really cares about winning or losing as his party will always be there.

Nonsense. He's a politician. Of course he cares.

Abhisit himself is now as tarred as Thaksin in many eyes and the Dems may well need another leader.

Abhisit has his critics of course, but since becoming PM i think his standing has only gone up, (apart from with the reds and he was never going to please them anyway). Besides which, of all the Dems he's about as good as they have got.

[lannarebirth]

Reds are starting to get concessions:

Abhisit has said he was willing to disband Parliament but there must be conditions attached

He mentioned three conditions for an election a few days ago. I cant remember them all but one was the right for any candidate to campaign without fear of attack anywhere

Correct. Another was to understand that his government had no jurisdiction over the courts and he could not negotiate favorable court concessions.

You think THIS v v has anything to do with THAT ^^ ?

THE NATION: Weng: "Govt is making negotiations impossible."

Edited March 28, 2010 by lannarebirth

[jdinasia]

This is starting to look like it will end badly which will be sad.

It has looked that way to me from the beginning. Violence very well COULD ruin the future for Abhisit and Korn

[ChiangMaiFun]

This is starting to look like it will end badly which will be sad.

It has looked that way to me from the beginning. Violence very well COULD ruin the future for Abhisit and Korn

I very much hope not... violence has no part in this and I would defend anyone against it - of course debaters know my sympathies are more red than yellow but that does not mean i support violence OR Khun Thaksin who should be ditched by the reds eventually.

[jdinasia]

Eventually? LOL

[lannarebirth]

This is starting to look like it will end badly which will be sad.

It has looked that way to me from the beginning. Violence very well COULD ruin the future for Abhisit and Korn

I very much hope not... violence has no part in this and I would defend anyone against it - of course debaters know my sympathies are more red than yellow but that does not mean i support violence OR Khun Thaksin who should be ditched by the reds eventually.

Why should he have not been ditched already?

[landofthefree]

Reds are starting to get concessions:

Abhisit has said he was willing to disband Parliament but there must be conditions attached

He mentioned three conditions for an election a few days ago. I cant remember them all but one was the right for any candidate to campaign without fear of attack anywhere

"Jaw Jaw Jaw is better than War War War" Winston Churchill. I think he got this one right.

[ovaltina]

An election will happen it is just a matter of when. I doubt Abhisit really cares about winning or losing as his party will always be there. However, other more shadowy characters may care a lot more. Abhisit himself is now as tarred as Thaksin in many eyes and the Dems may well need another leader.

The problem with talks for the reds is keeping all the Thaksin stuff off the agenda

If they want to take Thaksin off their agenda, they could stop wearing 'we love you Thaksin!' T-shirts with the A5size mussolini~profile shot of him, on them. I think there lies the problem. They have no agenda. They want tomorrow to happen today, more free phones & free houses etc. and they want it not soon but right now. I want to be a mermaid too, some things just don't happen ever & certainly not overnight.

As for Abhisit, he is as tarred as any other political figure in the entire world. Nobody trusts politicians, even in my great-grandfather's day they used to call politicians 'rats'. Look at the political cartoons

from England in 1700s , people have always mocked and hated politicians regardless of their actual character.

I think that Abhisit is the best leader on offer, for one thing he is very popular with the Western leaders & a darling of the western media, including business investment~related channels like bloomberg. What genuinely surprises me is that Abhisit has set up a lot of slow-burn, help-the-poor initiatives since he came into office, and yet the reds totally ignore this aid to their communities.

My first thought when I heard this meeting was 'will they try to take a pop at him'.After the grenades and threats to burn Bkk to the ground, I don't have any faith in their diplomatic reasoning.

[animatic]

Reds are starting to get concessions:

Abhisit has said he was willing to disband Parliament but there must be conditions attached

He mentioned three conditions for an election a few days ago. I cant remember them all but one was

the right for any candidate to campaign without fear of attack anywhere

And we know for the last several years that has been an impossible condition to meet.

Rak Chaing Mai 51 has to be disbanded for one, and several other up country locations

have for years answered talk between other parties and people in their areas with

VIOLENCE... and yes I shouted that, because it is disgusting to see.

Beating and running off opposing candidates is unacceptable.

No possible democratic process can go on under those conditions.

So guess that is a deal breaker.

PTP anfd TRT had freedom to campaign in Surat Thani and the south

without fear of reprisal for their political talk, they just had to expect to lose the election.

[ChiangMaiFun]

An election will happen it is just a matter of when. I doubt Abhisit really cares about winning or losing as his party will always be there. However, other more shadowy characters may care a lot more. Abhisit himself is now as tarred as Thaksin in many eyes and the Dems may well need another leader.

The problem with talks for the reds is keeping all the Thaksin stuff off the agenda

If they want to take Thaksin off their agenda, they could stop wearing 'we love you Thaksin!' T-shirts with the A5size mussolini~profile shot of him, on them. I think there lies the problem. They have no agenda. They want tomorrow to happen today, more free phones & free houses etc. and they want it not soon but right now. I want to be a mermaid too, some things just don't happen ever & certainly not overnight.

As for Abhisit, he is as tarred as any other political figure in the entire world. Nobody trusts politicians, even in my great-grandfather's day they used to call politicians 'rats'. Look at the political cartoons

from England in 1700s , people have always mocked and hated politicians regardless of their actual character.

I think that Abhisit is the best leader on offer, for one thing he is very popular with the Western leaders & a darling of the western media, including business investment~related channels like bloomberg. What genuinely surprises me is that Abhisit has set up a lot of slow-burn, help-the-poor initiatives since he came into office, and yet the reds totally ignore this aid to their communities.

My first thought when I heard this meeting was 'will they try to take a pop at him'.After the grenades and threats to burn Bkk to the ground, I don't have any faith in their diplomatic reasoning.

well that's a point - many people, though, and reasonable people, are not enthusiastic about Thaksin but lean more red than yellow simply because they have seen years of coups and court cases and all sorts and do not feel they have elelcted this government - IF they are elected that sympathy will, more or less, disolve and become non-existant.

[animatic]

He mentioned three conditions for an election a few days ago. I cant remember them all but one was the right for any candidate to campaign without fear of attack anywhere

I believe that we can all agree on - he should not, however, use this as an excuse never to hold elections (which he will lose - and we all know it - that's the problem - if he is not fearful - then why fear?)

An election will happen it is just a matter of when. I doubt Abhisit really cares about winning or losing as his party will always be there. However, other more shadowy characters may care a lot more. Abhisit himself is now as tarred as Thaksin in many eyes and the Dems may well need another leader.

The problem with talks for the reds is keeping all the Thaksin stuff off the agenda

I think that Abhisit and K. Korn have not been tarred by the same brush as Thaksin and both can effectively maintain their growing control on the Democrats.

By no means are Abhisit and Korn tarred by any brush.

They have committed no crimes, they have been installed by the rules of parliamentary procedures.

Thaksin is convicted. And ruled to have abused his authority.

He also shows signs of mental illness

and Abhisit and Korn seem more than typically lucid for this country.

[rametindallas]

I don't like the words 'ultimatum' and 'demands'. They make the accepting party look weak. I do hope it is televised. All the cards on the table.

[Sunderland]

The only thing they will agree on is to disagree. Just give everyone a pair of boxing gloves and sell tickets at Muong Thong Thani for a big showdown tomorrow night. Much more fun and will solve the problems once and for all.

[ovaltina]

well that's a point - many people, though, and reasonable people, are not enthusiastic about Thaksin but lean more red than yellow simply because they have seen years of coups and court cases and all sorts and do not feel they have elelcted this government - IF they are elected that sympathy will, more or less, disolve and become non-existant.

So, the solution to having 'years of coups' is to have another one. Why didn't I think of that.

My point is sort of, Abhisit has never said " I hate poor people", he has installed intiative to help them. He is trying to move Thailand forward as a business investment & tourist-attractive land again, to bring in further money and put this beautiful land where it belongs, as a modern,affluent technological meritocracy. Which takes time.

And also, in my view, after a violent upheavel / coup, there is turbulence, and during the turbulence money goes 'missing' in large amounts. Every crook in the upper echelons of the politisphere, on all sides of this divide, are waiting for the right moment when chaos takes hold. "The last act of a dying government is to loot the coffers."

So, political stability actually increases Thailand's wealth, which increases the wealth of the rural poor too. Political upheavel just results in a lot of money going 'astray' during the change-over.

Not to mention that the next post-coup regime seem to be, from watching their broadcasts, at best fanatical ex-military types with some seriously dodgy underworld links. Score one for progress.