Thai PM To Hold Second Round Of Talks With Red Shirts

[webfact]

Thai PM to hold second round of talks with Red Shirts

by Thanaporn Promyamyai

BANGKOK (AFP) -- Red Shirt leaders were set to meet Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on Monday for the second day of talks to press for elections following weeks of protests that have rocked Thailand's capital.

A first round of negotiations -- carried live on television -- ended without resolution late Sunday after Abhisit refused to bow to demands from the protesters, who are loyal to fugitive deposed premier Thaksin Shinawatra.

"House dissolution can only happen if we see it is not only the way out for the Reds but for the whole country also," Abhisit told three Red leaders in the three-hour meeting.

The Red Shirts, who draw their support mainly from the poor rural north of Thailand, accuse Abhisit's government of being undemocratic because it came to power on the back of a parliamentary vote after a controversial court ruling ousted Thaksin's allies from power.

On Sunday they told Abhisit he had two weeks to dissolve the house, but agreed to meet again Monday at 6:00pm (1100 GMT) to resume discussions.

Their populist political icon, former telecoms tycoon Thaksin, made one of his regular impassioned speeches by videolink following the talks, urging the rally of thousands to get behind the movement's leaders.

"Some say it was negative for the Reds because Abhisit is a good speaker but he lacks all sincerity," said Thaksin, who was ousted in a coup in 2006 and currently lives in Dubai to avoid a jail sentence for corruption.

"We have to unite, keep fighting and stay to help each other," he told them.

The Reds began rallying on March 14 after a court ruling seized 1.4 billion dollars of Thaksin's fortune.

Their demonstrations have peaked at the weekends, with 80,000 protesters joining the Bangkok rally on Saturday, forcing troops to retreat from security posts in the heart of the capital.

They have staged a series of dramatic stunts in their bid to force Abhisit to call snap elections, picketing the army barracks where he is holed up and throwing their own blood at his office gates.

The Reds say the British-born, Oxford-educated Abhisit is only able to lead his six-party coalition with military backing.

Abhisit had ruled out talks while the protesters remained on the streets, but made an about-face on Sunday, a move analysts said might hint at a weakening of his support.

"How united is the military in bolstering Abhisit? Could this be why he is meekly agreeing to negotiations?" said Thailand analyst Paul Chambers of Germany's Heidelberg University. "One wonders what he has to gain from it."

While the demonstrations have passed peacefully, security forces have taken few chances, putting a 50,000-strong force on the streets and using a strict security law to police the rallies.

The capital was hit late Sunday by the latest in a series of explosions at politically significant sites and army buildings.

A woman was injured by the grenade attack at the home of ex-prime minister Banharn Silpa-archa, police said.

A dozen people were hurt over the weekend when grenades were lobbed at the gate of the barracks where Abhisit has been living and working during the protests.

-- ©Copyright AFP 2010-03-29

Published with written approval from AFP.

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[jdinasia]

"How united is the military in bolstering Abhisit? Could this be why he is meekly agreeing to negotiations?" said Thailand analyst Paul Chambers of Germany's Heidelberg University. "One wonders what he has to gain from it."

What does he have to gain? Direct access to the people that are watching People TV without the opportunity for the reds to spin what was said.

edit ---

He also gains time to show the people all over Thailand that are neither Yellow of Red (the vast majority of Thais) that the government is working and moving things forward in Thailand.

Edited March 29, 2010 by jdinasia

[webfact]

Minister Sathit: PM to Personally Attend Peace Talks

BANGKOK: -- Minister to the Prime Minister's Office Sathit Wongnongtheoy has confirmed that the prime minister will personally attend discussions with red shirt leaders scheduled for this evening at 6 P.M. once he returns from Brunei.

-- Tan Network 2010-03-29

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[webfact]

Talks to continue today

By THE NATION

Govt-red shirt negotiations fail to produce results

BANGKOK -- The government and red-shirt protesters agreed yesterday to continue their talks after failing to reach any common ground on a dissolution of Parliament proposed by the protesters to end the on-going political stalemate.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva led the government team - including his secretary Korbsak Sabhavasu and Democrat MP Chamni Sakdiset - in talks with leaders of the red-shirt Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship (DAAD) - Veera Musigaphong, Jatuporn Promphan and Dr Weng Tojirakarn, at the King Prachadhipok Institute.

It was a rare moment in Thai political history - to have a prime minister sit equally with street protesters to talk about a political solution. The talk was conducted without a moderator and both sides seemed in a relaxed mood.

The red shirts proposed the government dissolve Parliament immediately - while the government argued the proposal would not move the country forward due to a deep divide in society where the law and regulations on elections were not fully accepted by all parties and factions.

Prime Minister Abhisit said in the live televised talk that the military-sponsored Constitution should be amended before the poll.

"I have never said I would not dissolve Parliament and I have never said I would stay on until the end of my term - but we should have rules acceptable for all before the new election," he said. "I don't think it would take long to amend the laws before a Parliament dissolution," Abhisit said.

Veera, leading the protesters team in the talks, said the stance of the two sides was absolutely opposed - as the protesters proposed an election before any amendment to the laws, while the government wanted to have the rules changed first.

Korbsak suggested that in many countries the constitutional amendment could be carried out along with the election. "People could cast their ballots and have checklists for the constitutional amendment at the same time," he said.

The meeting did not continue with Korbsak's proposal.

Jatuporn said he did not believe the current set of MPs would be able to rewrite the Constitution. Many proposals for constitutional amendment were being delayed, he said, claiming the ruling Democrat Party did not want many changes and had delayed the process until now.

"Prime Minister Abhisit has nothing to fear in the new election. You are confident to have at least 240 seats- or as your party Secretary General Suthep Thaugsuban predicted - to get at least 280 seats in the next poll," he said. "So why do you hesitate to return power to the people and allow them to vote and make their choice?" Jatuporn said.

"If you win, we would respect the result of the poll and would not bother your administration anymore," he said.

Abhisit argued he did not care much about the result of the election but was concerned over the future of the country and wanted to make sure that the new election could really solve the problems.

Chamni said a dissolution of Parliament was not the sole answer - sometimes it could really lead a country out of political crisis, but in many cases it created another crisis.

"The parliamentary dissolution in 1992, after Suchinda Kraprayoon's government ended the crisis - but the dissolution in 2006 (by the then Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra) brought in another crisis and that crisis exists until now," he said.

The Government and red-shirt discussion yesterday also talked about the root causes of the current crisis, which Dr Weng said was the 2006 military coup that led to an "undemocratic Constitution", plus an alleged military role in politics and a social divide.

-- The Nation 2010-03-29

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[webfact]

Red Shirts Announce Today as Last Day for Talks

BANGKOK: -- Red shirts announce that today is the last time they will sit down for negotiations with the government and it must end with a House dissolution.

They say if the prime minister thinks that is too soon, he has to consider that he still has 60 days before elections take place.

-- Tan Network 2010-03-29

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[jdinasia]

Red Shirts Announce Today as Last Day for Talks

BANGKOK: -- Red shirts announce that today is the last time they will sit down for negotiations with the government and it must end with a House dissolution.

They say if the prime minister thinks that is too soon, he has to consider that he still has 60 days before elections take place.

-- Tan Network 2010-03-29

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

So to read this correctly ---

Reds say "This is not actually a negotiation, this is a demand." and they mean by this "We can't afford to let Abhisit look so smart and reasonable to the red mob that is watching this on TV"

[samtam]

I can't tell, but has anyone who watched and understood this circus last night have any comment about the participants? Did the Reds come over as being intelligent, negotiable etc? How was Abhisit's performance?

Edit - Sorry - note already answered in another post.

Edited March 29, 2010 by samtam

[anotherpeter]

Red Shirts Announce Today as Last Day for Talks

BANGKOK: -- Red shirts announce that today is the last time they will sit down for negotiations with the government and it must end with a House dissolution.

They say if the prime minister thinks that is too soon, he has to consider that he still has 60 days before elections take place.

So to read this correctly ---

Reds say "This is not actually a negotiation, this is a demand." and they mean by this "We can't afford to let Abhisit look so smart and reasonable to the red mob that is watching this on TV"

By not negotiating, they will still have the support of the red die hards, but they will lose support from the moderate reds, and certainly lose support from anyone that was on the fence.

They are not interested in free and fair elections. They want elections now while they still have money to buy votes (whether this is directly buying votes, or paying people to bully votes). The further away the elections, the less chance they have of corrupting it. And they can't win if they can't do that.

They can't answer basic questions like "How will a house dissolution help the whole country?".

They can't commit to not interfering with the judiciary.

A majority of the people will see that they are just there to get Thaksin his money back.

[Publicus]

Red Shirts Announce Today as Last Day for Talks

BANGKOK: -- Red shirts announce that today is the last time they will sit down for negotiations with the government and it must end with a House dissolution.

They say if the prime minister thinks that is too soon, he has to consider that he still has 60 days before elections take place.

-- Tan Network 2010-03-29

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

This is a demand, it is unacceptable, we know where it comes from. The three Redshirts yesterday were exposed as being concerned only for Thaksin, taking orders directly from Thaksin and pursuing the interests of Thaksin. Charter amendments would be for the benefit of Thaksin. A snap election would lead to further instability but no snap election would lead to further instability. Thaksin's painting himself into a corner and Abhisit is providing the paint.

[lannarebirth]

Red Shirts Announce Today as Last Day for Talks

BANGKOK: -- Red shirts announce that today is the last time they will sit down for negotiations with the government and it must end with a House dissolution.

They say if the prime minister thinks that is too soon, he has to consider that he still has 60 days before elections take place.

So to read this correctly ---

Reds say "This is not actually a negotiation, this is a demand." and they mean by this "We can't afford to let Abhisit look so smart and reasonable to the red mob that is watching this on TV"

By not negotiating, they will still have the support of the red die hards, but they will lose support from the moderate reds, and certainly lose support from anyone that was on the fence.

They are not interested in free and fair elections. They want elections now while they still have money to buy votes (whether this is directly buying votes, or paying people to bully votes). The further away the elections, the less chance they have of corrupting it. And they can't win if they can't do that.

They can't answer basic questions like "How will a house dissolution help the whole country?".

They can't commit to not interfering with the judiciary.

A majority of the people will see that they are just there to get Thaksin his money back.

Let's face facts. This Red side cannot hold transparent negotiations. Did you see last night when they were hammering for elections so that the next administration could change the constitution? Abhisit countered with the fact that his administration, together with coalition partners TOGETHER WITH the opposition party had negotiated charter amendments already. Including amendments that he Abhisit didn't agree with, but at the last minute the PT gets a phone call and the whole thing is off. Abhisit made the point that if the opposition had followed through we'd have had a national referendum on charter change already. Man, that sure blew up in their face.

[webfact]

MCOT NEWS:

PM cuts short mission to Brunei; returns to Bangkok at 4.30pm for 2nd round talks with Red Shirt leaders

[Publicus]

Thaksin sees that Abhisit yesterday seriously outmaneuvered both he and his Redshirts, wants an end to the nationally televised show "The Redshirts Aren't As Smart As A Fifth Grader" and is now issuing summary and arbitrary demands.

The specifics of the Redshirts' charter changes amount to the equivalent to a Bill of Attainer whose purpose is to benefit a particular individual (unconstitutional in the US). Abhisit scored a big win yesterday by deciding to allow the Redshirt leaders to expose themselves on national tv, live as Thaksin's waterboys. Thaksin's lost all inititive and now is scrambling more than ever to try to regain lost footing, but he's not likely to recover from this fatal clever blow by Abhisit.

[webfact]

PM satisfied with yesterday´s talks with UDD

BANGKOK (NNT) -- Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has expressed satisfaction with the outcome of yesterday’s negotiation with the anti-government United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD), saying that it helped lessen the political tensions between both sides.

Acting Government Spokesperson Panitan Watanayagorn said after the three-hour talks that the PM deemed the negotiation a progress in seeking solutions to the political row. He added that Mr Abhisit would attend another meeting with the UDD core figures after arriving from Brunei on Monday.

Yesterday at 16.00 hrs, PM Abhisit met with the core UDD leaders--MD Weng Tojirakarn, Weera Musikapong and Jatuporn Prompan at the King Prajadhipok’s Institute, where the talks were broadcast live. Among the government side were Secretary-General of the Prime Minister Korbsak Sabhavasu and Democrat Deputy Secretary-General Chamni Sakdiset. No concrete agreement has been reached since the PM refused to bow to the UDD’s demand for a house resolution.

Addressing the UDD’s request for a snap lower house dissolution in 15 days, Mr Panithan said that to avoid tensions, the preliminary stage was to listen to the other party’s opinions without a framework. He also stressed the importance of maintaining the atmosphere that lacks stress and tension.

The acting government spokesperson said yesterday’s negotiation had seen progress in the issues of demonstrations which affected the public and democracy development.

He reiterated that the past negotiation was just the beginning and further agreements would be sought.

-- NNT 2010-03-29

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[lannarebirth]

Thaksin sees that Abhisit yesterday seriously outmaneuvered both he and his Redshirts, wants an end to the nationally televised show "The Redshirts Aren't As Smart As A Fifth Grader" and is now issuing summary and arbitrary demands.

The specifics of the Redshirts' charter changes amount to the equivalent to a Bill of Attainer whose purpose is to benefit a particular individual (unconstitutional in the US). Abhisit scored a big win yesterday by deciding to allow the Redshirt leaders to expose themselves on national tv, live as Thaksin's waterboys. Thaksin's lost all inititive and now is scrambling more than ever to try to regain lost footing, but he's not likely to recover from this fatal clever blow by Abhisit.

If the Red shirts don't give Abhisit an ultimatum and walk out in the first 10 minutes they're going to take another drubbing. Heads he wins, tails they lose.

[Cayenne]

Thaksin sees that Abhisit yesterday seriously outmaneuvered both he and his Redshirts, wants an end to the nationally televised show "The Redshirts Aren't As Smart As A Fifth Grader" and is now issuing summary and arbitrary demands.

The specifics of the Redshirts' charter changes amount to the equivalent to a Bill of Attainer whose purpose is to benefit a particular individual (unconstitutional in the US). Abhisit scored a big win yesterday by deciding to allow the Redshirt leaders to expose themselves on national tv, live as Thaksin's waterboys. Thaksin's lost all inititive and now is scrambling more than ever to try to regain lost footing, but he's not likely to recover from this fatal clever blow by Abhisit.

If the Red shirts don't give Abhisit an ultimatum and walk out in the first 10 minutes they're going to take another drubbing. Heads he wins, tails they lose.

Maybe they should change the debate to better the suit the level of intelligence of these red shirts. How about a quiz show format? We're hire a moderator to make it easy on these guys and yes, they will have one chance to call their mystery guest in Dubai at any time.

[webfact]

Thai PM cuts short Brunei visit for 2nd round of talks with Red Shirt leaders

BANGKOK (TNA) -- Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on Monday shortened his official visit to Brunei to return to Bangkok for the second round of negotiations to find a way out of the country's political crisis with the anti-government Red Shirt leaders of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD).

The premier left Bangkok Monday morning for his one-day official visit to Brunei to strengthen bilateral relations between the two nations.

Mr Abhisit is scheduled to make a courtesy call on Sultan Hassanal Bolkiah before holding talks with a full contingent of officials, covering a wide range of cooperation between the two nations and their bilateral cooperation under the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) framework.

The Thai prime minister however cancelled a portion of his afternoon schedule to enable an earlier return to Bangkok, at 4.30pm, to attend the second round of talks with the UDD leaders scheduled at 6pm.

Following an increasingly tense confrontation between security forces and the red-clad protesters after two weeks of demonstrations demanding that the premier dissolve the House and call a fresh election, Mr Abhisit talked for three hours Sunday in face-to-face talks broadcast live on national television with three key Red Shirt leaders.

As the negotiations ended without any concrete resolution to the country's current political crisis, both sides agreed to resume negotiations Monday at 6pm.

Meanwhile, Natthawut Saikua, a key UDD leader, said Monday's negotiations will be the final round of talks and no matter the result would be the UDD remains steadfast that the house dissolution is the only way out.

He said again that the red shirts will adhere to peaceful means to press their demands.

UDD leader Jatuporn Prompan pressed Mr Abhisit to meet their demand within a fortnight during the Sunday talks, and said if the government agrees to the red shirts' demand to dissolve the house within 15 days, it still has 45 days to work as a caretaker government, but if the government rejects the demand, the UDD will intensify its anti-government campaign by taking it to another level. However, he refused to disclose about the Reds' new strategy but only stated that it would be nonviolent.

Although the rallies have been peaceful so far, there has been a series of grenade and bomb attacks at key government offices and military installations, as well as banks.

In the latest incident, a Bangkok Bank branch near the home of former prime minister and veteran politician Banharn Silapa-archa was hit by gunfire, while a bomb attack took place at the Administrative Court in the northern province of Chiang Mai late Sunday.

Police inspected damage at Bangkok Bank, Bangyeekan branch, 300 metres from Banharn's home, hit by gunfire and with bullets penetrating the bank's plate glass.

The bank manager said the time of the incident is not known but said that the attackers might have fired at the bank while police left to see the grenade attack at the home of Mr Banharn, chief adviser to Chart Thai Pattana Party, one of the parties in the Abhisit coalition government.

The explosion at the former premier's home occurred at about 10.30pm Sunday when an M-67 hand grenade hit the outside wall of Mr Banharn's home and fell on the footpath before exploding, injuring one passer-by.

In Chiang Mai, stronghold of supporters of fugitive ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra, police investigated a car park of the Chiang Mai Administrative Court which was hit by bomb attack late Sunday.

No casualties were reported. Police said that the incident is likely to raise feelings of apprehension and uncertainty among the public. (TNA)

-- TNA 2010-03-29

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[termad]

Red Shirts Announce Today as Last Day for Talks

BANGKOK: -- Red shirts announce that today is the last time they will sit down for negotiations with the government and it must end with a House dissolution.

They say if the prime minister thinks that is too soon, he has to consider that he still has 60 days before elections take place.

So to read this correctly ---Reds say "This is not actually a negotiation, this is a demand." and they mean by this "We can't afford to let Abhisit look so smart and reasonable to the red mob that is watching this on TV"

By not negotiating, they will still have the support of the red die hards, but they will lose support from the moderate reds, and certainly lose support from anyone that was on the fence.

They are not interested in free and fair elections. They want elections now while they still have money to buy votes (whether this is directly buying votes, or paying people to bully votes). The further away the elections, the less chance they have of corrupting it. And they can't win if they can't do that.

They can't answer basic questions like "How will a house dissolution help the whole country?".

They can't commit to not interfering with the judiciary.

A majority of the people will see that they are just there to get Thaksin his money back.

In all of your threads you seem to make it up as you go along and then present it as facts.

I don't believe that it is possible to buy votes if it is tell me how it is done. In any case why would they need to buy votes? There are very few people in this country who believe that Abhisit can possibly win the next election and that I would think includes Abhisit himself which is why, in spite of the fact that he has to live in his bolt hole on the Air Force base, he is clinging desperately to power. On the other hand after Abhisit loses the election will he ask the Military and Amataya to try to buy Goverment MPs and the millions of votes that they represent so that he can remain as installed Prime Minister exactly as happened to make him Prime Minister in the first place.

The Red Shirt answer to the basic question "How will house dissolution help the whole country?" would be it would be that it would return democracy and give them back the Government that they voted for.

Sundays demonstration was near to my apartment and I went down to watch it. I did not see anything that could be described as a mob. Why do you use such a word?

The things this Prime Minister is doing to cling to power is appalling. For instance spreading stories that the Red Shirts are carrying diseases especially H1N1. It turns out that one man in their number had H1N1 and surprise surprise it appears he is not even a Red Shirt but one of the "volunteers" recruited by Abhisit from the Ministry of the Interior to infiltrate the Red Shirt movement and cause trouble. A smart reasonable Prime Minister?

Edited March 29, 2010 by termad

[jdinasia]

Wow ... congrats Termad you are the first person EVER on any side to say that vote buying doesn't exist! Time to take those blinkers off!

[webfact]

TRUCE TALK

PM to attend the peace talk for the second day

BANGKOK: -- Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has cut short his official trip to Brunei and will certainly attend the peace talk with red shirts leaders on Monday, PM's Office Minister Satit Wongnongtoei said.

The government's team to meet the red shirts leaders at 6pm today will be similar to that of Sunday, which comprised PM's secretary general Korbsak Sabhavasu and Democrat's deputy secretary general Chamni Sakdiset.

Abhisit on Monday made a one-day trip to Brunei. He initially would return to Bangkok late at night. But according to Satit, he would cut short his trip so that he could attend the second peace talk.

Earlier in the morning, there is a report that Abhisit will not attend the Monday talk as he was busy with his Brunei trip. The red shirts leaders then said that they would not attend the talk on Monday if the PM is absent.

Satit reiterated that the peace talk on Sunday has achieved to a certain level as both sides agreed in principle on several issues. He dismissed criticism that the talk could not find the common ground on a House dissolution demanded by the protesters.

The minister said the second-day will still be live broadcast via TV Channel 11 and radios.

Abhisit and his team hold talks with leaders of the red-shirts- Veera Musigaphong, Jatuporn Promphan and Dr Weng Tojirakarn, at the King Prachadhipok Institute on Sunday.

It was a rare moment in Thai political history - to have a prime minister sit equally with street protesters to talk about a political solution. The talk was conducted without a moderator and both sides seemed in a relaxed mood.

The red shirts proposed the government dissolve Parliament immediately - while the government argued the proposal would not move the country forward due to a deep divide in society where the law and regulations on elections were not fully accepted by all parties and factions.

-- The Nation 2010-03-29

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[Publicus]

Thaksin sees that Abhisit yesterday seriously outmaneuvered both he and his Redshirts, wants an end to the nationally televised show "The Redshirts Aren't As Smart As A Fifth Grader" and is now issuing summary and arbitrary demands.

The specifics of the Redshirts' charter changes amount to the equivalent to a Bill of Attainer whose purpose is to benefit a particular individual (unconstitutional in the US). Abhisit scored a big win yesterday by deciding to allow the Redshirt leaders to expose themselves on national tv, live as Thaksin's waterboys. Thaksin's lost all inititive and now is scrambling more than ever to try to regain lost footing, but he's not likely to recover from this fatal clever blow by Abhisit.

If the Red shirts don't give Abhisit an ultimatum and walk out in the first 10 minutes they're going to take another drubbing. Heads he wins, tails they lose.

Maybe they should change the debate to better the suit the level of intelligence of these red shirts. How about a quiz show format? We're hire a moderator to make it easy on these guys and yes, they will have one chance to call their mystery guest in Dubai at any time.

Yes, I like that. In fact Thailand now has a political Reality Show which has as its stars the country's own Three Stooges who in this zany episode go off to meet the prime minister. Kuhn Moe, Kuhn Larry and Kuhn Curley.

[craigt3365]

Red Shirts Announce Today as Last Day for Talks

BANGKOK: -- Red shirts announce that today is the last time they will sit down for negotiations with the government and it must end with a House dissolution.

They say if the prime minister thinks that is too soon, he has to consider that he still has 60 days before elections take place.

So to read this correctly ---Reds say "This is not actually a negotiation, this is a demand." and they mean by this "We can't afford to let Abhisit look so smart and reasonable to the red mob that is watching this on TV"

By not negotiating, they will still have the support of the red die hards, but they will lose support from the moderate reds, and certainly lose support from anyone that was on the fence.

They are not interested in free and fair elections. They want elections now while they still have money to buy votes (whether this is directly buying votes, or paying people to bully votes). The further away the elections, the less chance they have of corrupting it. And they can't win if they can't do that.

They can't answer basic questions like "How will a house dissolution help the whole country?".

They can't commit to not interfering with the judiciary.

A majority of the people will see that they are just there to get Thaksin his money back.

In all of your threads you seem to make it up as you go along and then present it as facts.

I don't believe that it is possible to buy votes if it is tell me how it is done. In any case why would they need to buy votes? There are very few people in this country who believe that Abhisit can possibly win the next election and that I would think includes Abhisit himself which is why, in spite of the fact that he has to live in his bolt hole on the Air Force base, he is clinging desperately to power. On the other hand after Abhisit loses the election will he ask the Military and Amataya to try to buy Goverment MPs and the millions of votes that they represent so that he can remain as installed Prime Minister exactly as happened to make him Prime Minister in the first place.

The Red Shirt answer to the basic question "How will house dissolution help the whole country?" would be it would be that it would return democracy and give them back the Government that they voted for.

Sundays demonstration was near to my apartment and I went down to watch it. I did not see anything that could be described as a mob. Why do you use such a word?

The things this Prime Minister is doing to cling to power is appalling. For instance spreading stories that the Red Shirts are carrying diseases especially H1N1. It turns out that one man in their number had H1N1 and surprise surprise it appears he is not even a Red Shirt but one of the "volunteers" recruited by Abhisit from the Ministry of the Interior to infiltrate the Red Shirt movement and cause trouble. A smart reasonable Prime Minister?

You ask how vote buying is done, but then suggest the military and amataya will buy government MPs and millions of votes? A bit contradictory isn't that?

I sure don't blame Abhisit for staying on a military base. Ya got a bunch of wackos spilling blood all over his house. Throw feces, bombs going off...heck, I'd hole up also!

We can argue all we want about whether he was elected properly...but you can argue that same way about pretty much every past PM. Too much corruption...no way there was ever a fair vote. He is the PM, go about changes through the system...not the way the red's are doing this. Talk about undemocratic...what they are doing is about as bad as it gets. Rule by mob...

jdinasia: I love your tag!!!!

[virtualtraveller]

There's plenty of smoke and mirrors from both sides here, and it's all about timing.

The reds have run out of ideas, but the PM is losing the moral high ground because of the heavy handed use of army security, which had to be hastily sent home. So, agreeing to talk suited both.

The protest has lost momentum, the only thing left now is for them to agree to talks

Their negotiation sounds more like a demand because the longer the government holds out the more desperate they look.

The PM can buy some time from talks and seem to be making an effort towards resolution

The present govt must hang in there until the Army re-shuffle in October, which could possibly be brought forward but cannot occur so soon after the protest.

Taksin is desperate to get an election and control of the govt before the Army reshuffle so he can get a 'friendly' general at the helm and eliminate one more hurdle to his comeback.

A more friendly govt would great assist Thaksin in the appeal process for his assets. An election now would help him while sympathy still runs high after his assets case, from here it's all downhill as he gradually fades from the minds of the poor masses.

So, neither of these two sides are acting entirely sincerely since it's all about dodgy Thai politics with hidden agendas as usual.

Beneath it all, those in power now - while not entirely democratically legitimate - are doing their very best to safe guard the country's law enforcement integrity by making damned sure that Thaksin's chances of a comeback and reversal of convictions are an absolute minimum.

[Chaimai]

So, neither of these two sides are acting entirely sincerely since it's all about dodgy Thai politics with hidden agendas as usual.

Beneath it all, those in power now - while not entirely democratically legitimate - are doing their very best to safe guard the country's law enforcement integrity by making damned sure that Thaksin's chances of a comeback and reversal of convictions are an absolute minimum.

This final paragraph seems to sum up perfectly where we are now.

With Thaksin in the picture the reds have no chance of political credibility - without him they can concentrate on representing their constituents. Ironically, in the man they seek depose they probably have someone who would seek to ensure fair representation.

[scorecard]

Thaksin sees that Abhisit yesterday seriously outmaneuvered both he and his Redshirts, wants an end to the nationally televised show "The Redshirts Aren't As Smart As A Fifth Grader" and is now issuing summary and arbitrary demands.

The specifics of the Redshirts' charter changes amount to the equivalent to a Bill of Attainer whose purpose is to benefit a particular individual (unconstitutional in the US). Abhisit scored a big win yesterday by deciding to allow the Redshirt leaders to expose themselves on national tv, live as Thaksin's waterboys. Thaksin's lost all inititive and now is scrambling more than ever to try to regain lost footing, but he's not likely to recover from this fatal clever blow by Abhisit.

Quote from above:

"Thaksin sees that Abhisit yesterday seriously outmaneuvered both he and his Redshirts, wants an end to the nationally televised show "

Where does this come from, can you please share the source. Thanks.

Edited March 29, 2010 by scorecard

[Publicus]

Thaksin sees that Abhisit yesterday seriously outmaneuvered both he and his Redshirts, wants an end to the nationally televised show "The Redshirts Aren't As Smart As A Fifth Grader" and is now issuing summary and arbitrary demands.

The specifics of the Redshirts' charter changes amount to the equivalent to a Bill of Attainer whose purpose is to benefit a particular individual (unconstitutional in the US). Abhisit scored a big win yesterday by deciding to allow the Redshirt leaders to expose themselves on national tv, live as Thaksin's waterboys. Thaksin's lost all inititive and now is scrambling more than ever to try to regain lost footing, but he's not likely to recover from this fatal clever blow by Abhisit.

Quote from above:

"Thaksin sees that Abhisit yesterday seriously outmaneuvered both he and his Redshirts, wants an end to the nationally televised show "

Where does this come from, can you please share the source. Thanks.

IMHO thanks for asking....I rarely reveal my confidential and reliable sources....I have done it for you tho....this time.

Edited March 29, 2010 by Publicus

[moresomekl]

On the other hand after Abhisit loses the election will he ask the Military and Amataya to try to buy Goverment MPs and the millions of votes that they represent so that he can remain as installed Prime Minister exactly as happened to make him Prime Minister in the first place.

Do you have proof of that ?

[anotherpeter]

There's plenty of smoke and mirrors from both sides here, and it's all about timing.

The reds have run out of ideas, but the PM is losing the moral high ground because of the heavy handed use of army security, which had to be hastily sent home. So, agreeing to talk suited both.

The protest has lost momentum, the only thing left now is for them to agree to talks

Their negotiation sounds more like a demand because the longer the government holds out the more desperate they look.

The PM can buy some time from talks and seem to be making an effort towards resolution

The present govt must hang in there until the Army re-shuffle in October, which could possibly be brought forward but cannot occur so soon after the protest.

Taksin is desperate to get an election and control of the govt before the Army reshuffle so he can get a 'friendly' general at the helm and eliminate one more hurdle to his comeback.

A more friendly govt would great assist Thaksin in the appeal process for his assets. An election now would help him while sympathy still runs high after his assets case, from here it's all downhill as he gradually fades from the minds of the poor masses.

So, neither of these two sides are acting entirely sincerely since it's all about dodgy Thai politics with hidden agendas as usual.

Beneath it all, those in power now - while not entirely democratically legitimate - are doing their very best to safe guard the country's law enforcement integrity by making damned sure that Thaksin's chances of a comeback and reversal of convictions are an absolute minimum.

IMO, Abhisit hasn't been heavy handed with security. Early on the red shirt leaders were predicting violence and even "civil war".

Abhisit needed to make sure Bangkok was protected, but he made sure there were no guns. That hardly sounds heavy handed. Since the start of the protests while they have been peaceful he has avoided conflict. The army has been sitting in the background away from the protests, but ready if any thing happened. All the reds did on the weekend was to get the army to move from one staging point to another staging point. Score "one" for the reds, but the government didn't care. When the reds tried to remove the army from parliament house, they didn't go, because they were actually protecting something. "Minus 2" for the reds.

Abhisit hasn't lost any moral high ground at all. He has let the red protest. He let them pour their blood everywhere. He let them wander around Bangkok. He said they can protest all they like, as long as they keep it legal.

He has offered the reds a house dissolution ... with conditions. Quite fair conditions. But the reds didn't like being told that they couldn't whitewash Thaksin's corruption charges.

He has had talks with the protest leaders. That would have to be the first time in history that has happened.

The more that the red leaders talk, the more they will dig themselves a hole. That's why they won't talk after today.

Abhisit still has the moral high ground.

[jdinasia]

Virtualtraveller wrote ---

The reds have run out of ideas, but the PM is losing the moral high ground because of the heavy handed use of army security, which had to be hastily sent home. So, agreeing to talk suited both.

I think you are misreading good security to be heavy-handed. The government and the military certainly needed to be prepared to deal with the threats of Sae Daeng (and yes grenades are still flying) and Arisman. If they had not been so fully prepared who knows what might have happened? That they gave ground rather than forced confrontations at non-strategic locations seems to be read as "proper" by the people around me. That they did NOT give ground at Government House was also read as "proper" by the people around me.

I think you are also missing out that the vast majority of people are not Red OR Yellow and that Abhisit is building support across the board (including with some reds that are not Thaksin puppets) by meeting with the red leadership, staying calm, and addressing the issues put in front of him in a polite and respectful manner. Many people are put off by Dr Wengs remarks and Jatuporn's intransigence.

[Publicus]

Virtualtraveller wrote ---

The reds have run out of ideas, but the PM is losing the moral high ground because of the heavy handed use of army security, which had to be hastily sent home. So, agreeing to talk suited both.

I think you are misreading good security to be heavy-handed. The government and the military certainly needed to be prepared to deal with the threats of Sae Daeng (and yes grenades are still flying) and Arisman. If they had not been so fully prepared who knows what might have happened? That they gave ground rather than forced confrontations at non-strategic locations seems to be read as "proper" by the people around me. That they did NOT give ground at Government House was also read as "proper" by the people around me.

I think you are also missing out that the vast majority of people are not Red OR Yellow and that Abhisit is building support across the board (including with some reds that are not Thaksin puppets) by meeting with the red leadership, staying calm, and addressing the issues put in front of him in a polite and respectful manner. Many people are put off by Dr Wengs remarks and Jatuporn's intransigence.

Indeed, and Abhisit upended Thaksin completely by meeting with the opposition face to face, something Thaksin would never 'stoop' to do nor would Thaksin ever render respect or consideration to anyone in opposition to him. The more the three Reds talk, the better Abhisit looks and the more convincing he souunds.

Thaksin never held the moral high ground, neither did the Reds - the Reds are desperately trying to reverse their violent image from Pattaya and Songkran among other events or explosions. Thaksin's latest destination is Montenegro where the PM is under investigation in Italy for money laundering and other criminal activities. Moral high ground? Thaksin has to look up to see the curbstone.

[scorecard]

Thaksin sees that Abhisit yesterday seriously outmaneuvered both he and his Redshirts, wants an end to the nationally televised show "The Redshirts Aren't As Smart As A Fifth Grader" and is now issuing summary and arbitrary demands.

The specifics of the Redshirts' charter changes amount to the equivalent to a Bill of Attainer whose purpose is to benefit a particular individual (unconstitutional in the US). Abhisit scored a big win yesterday by deciding to allow the Redshirt leaders to expose themselves on national tv, live as Thaksin's waterboys. Thaksin's lost all inititive and now is scrambling more than ever to try to regain lost footing, but he's not likely to recover from this fatal clever blow by Abhisit.

Quote from above:

"Thaksin sees that Abhisit yesterday seriously outmaneuvered both he and his Redshirts, wants an end to the nationally televised show "

Where does this come from, can you please share the source. Thanks.

IMHO thanks for asking....I rarely reveal my confidential and reliable sources....I have done it for you tho....this time.

Sorry, maybe i'm missing something, I can't see anything about the source. Would you please clarify.