Thai PM To Hold Second Round Of Talks With Red Shirts

[jdinasia]

So Jatuporn and Weng were there to make propaganda points and Veera to see if a deal could be done.

Well, Jatuporn might well be arrested as soon as parliament is dissolved. That means the Reds/PTP NEED Veera to be the reasonable one. (He's not on any of the banned lists is he?)

Is Veera the one in the middle? The only one who seems to be listening? Japuporn is fidgiting around like he has ants in his pants, and the far guy is just staring off into space.

Veera is in the middle. Dr Weng with the glasses is on the end. Dr Weng's job is to talk about the military last Songkran, Jatuporn's job is to jab at the current government's legitimacy, Veera's job is to be a possible leading public face for the Reds that is palatable to the rest of the country.

[SomTumTiger]

Maybe the PM and Veera should sit down, without the puppets and the TV, and hash out a deal. Frankly, elections by years end is a compromise. Term runs until 2011. Reds want now. Split the difference, amend the charter, move on.

Oh wait. Thaksin has his own motives, which have nothing to do with the country's prosperity. Forgot about that.

[jdinasia]

Jatuporn may have killed his own standing point when he asked if it were possible to ammend the constitution in 9 months.

[hammered]

Abhisit is basically offering elections by the end of the year iwth a constitutional referendum or ammendment first. The PAD are going to explode

[britmaveric]

^logical compromise, let's hope Abhisit follows through.

[jdinasia]

Abhisit is basically offering elections by the end of the year iwth a constitutional referendum or ammendment first. The PAD are going to explode

Let them, as long as nothing is changed to allow Thaksin to be whitewashed then they don't have a real talking point.

(and yes I agreed with the PAD for the most part all the way through their adventures in democracy -- excluding New Politics--)

[SomTumTiger]

^logical compromise, let's hope Abhisit follows through.

Yes, because Abhisit is the "unreasonable" one....

[hammered]

^logical compromise, let's hope Abhisit follows through.

We need the other side to agree to it yet.

[SomTumTiger]

Talks ended - We are lucky to have Abihsit as PM. Certainly the best man for the job. The statesman vrs the mob.

[jdinasia]

^logical compromise, let's hope Abhisit follows through.

We need the other side to agree to it yet.

They have til Thursday to agree There is no way there can be both charter reform AND new elections in less than about 9 months anyways. I doubt that Abhisit will agree to a new election without doing the constitution first!

Abhisit got a bit flustered twice tonight but did overall maintain his cool. Weng did as he did last night. Jatuporn only played to the red mob. Veera showed (again) the beginnings of being a real statesman.

[hammered]

^logical compromise, let's hope Abhisit follows through.

We need the other side to agree to it yet.

They have til Thursday to agree There is no way there can be both charter reform AND new elections in less than about 9 months anyways. I doubt that Abhisit will agree to a new election without doing the constitution first!

Abhisit got a bit flustered twice tonight but did overall maintain his cool. Weng did as he did last night. Jatuporn only played to the red mob. Veera showed (again) the beginnings of being a real statesman.

Korbsak performed well tonight too. Veera is quite close to some Dem politicos from back in the day.

Edited to add: If the dems go through with this and the reds accept it, Abhisit is taking a huge electoral gamble as a percentager of his voters wont like it and the dems could really underperform in the election. NPP will target the dems on this and split their vote to punish them.

Edited March 29, 2010 by hammered

[MaiChai]

I think Abhisit is doing a great job, keeps things logical and to the point, and most importantly consults others. Compare this to the dictator style of Taksin. He gets my vote (if I was allowed to vote).

[gregb]

So, I don't really know how to characterize that show. It looked like 2 groups of children deciding to pick up their marbles and go home. I heard alot of "Did not! Did too!" but nothing of substance. I admit my Thai is not really up to scratch for a discussion of that magnitude, but I think I understood enough. I was extremely disappointed in Abhisit getting maneuvered into discussing time frames for house dissolution. That is a rookie mistake if I ever saw one. He is an Oxford graduate. He had those red guys outclassed by orders of magnitude. He should have talked circles around them.

Anyway, my take is they all just agreed to disagree and went home pouting. Let's hope that now the reds simply pack it in, lie to their mob and go home. This sorry chapter in Thailand's history can then be closed. If Abhisit acts like a proper PM, he can delay long enough that we get to the normally scheduled elections anyway, and there is very little point of dissolving the house early. That would be an ideal situation.

Overall, I would have a hard time figuring out who came out better off in that round. The reds didn't win, but Abhisit put in a really disappointing performance. I was hoping he would pulverise those hypocritical red misanthrops. He certainly did not accomplish that. The fact that the reds left with any of their credibility intact leaves me to the unfortunate conclusion that they might not yet be entirely defeated.

[RickBradford]

Abhisit was good tonight -- visibly angry with Jatuporn a couple of times, but overall controlled the discussion. He knew he was playing to the nation (small 'n') and done good played strong, as they say in the NRL.

Jatuporn is simply the thug threatening further mob action; Veera and Weng have some sense of negotiation in them.

EDIT: (in light of the above post, which happened while I was writing) Westerners would never think a Government should negotiate with street mobs, especially on live TV, but this is Thailand, plus these people all know each other pretty well, it's not like they're just gathering for the first time. All six know the agenda of the other five, and we're getting to see the show. Great TV - (even though my Thai isn't good enough to figure out all the bits)

Edited March 29, 2010 by RickBradford

[jdinasia]

So, I don't really know how to characterize that show. It looked like 2 groups of children deciding to pick up their marbles and go home. I heard alot of "Did not! Did too!" but nothing of substance. I admit my Thai is not really up to scratch for a discussion of that magnitude, but I think I understood enough. I was extremely disappointed in Abhisit getting maneuvered into discussing time frames for house dissolution. That is a rookie mistake if I ever saw one. He is an Oxford graduate. He had those red guys outclassed by orders of magnitude. He should have talked circles around them.

Anyway, my take is they all just agreed to disagree and went home pouting. Let's hope that now the reds simply pack it in, lie to their mob and go home. This sorry chapter in Thailand's history can then be closed. If Abhisit acts like a proper PM, he can delay long enough that we get to the normally scheduled elections anyway, and there is very little point of dissolving the house early. That would be an ideal situation.

Overall, I would have a hard time figuring out who came out better off in that round. The reds didn't win, but Abhisit put in a really disappointing performance. I was hoping he would pulverise those hypocritical red misanthrops. He certainly did not accomplish that. The fact that the reds left with any of their credibility intact leaves me to the unfortunate conclusion that they might not yet be entirely defeated.

Greg --- you are missing some very important things in Thai culture. Abhisit is the PM of the entire country! He must appear to be compassionate and open to hearing and dealing with everyone and that includes the reds. I doubt he made any concession that was not planned. Who did he reach with the concession? The moderates and the fence-sitters. Overall he did VERY well.

[KKvampire]

Red Shirts Announce Today as Last Day for Talks

BANGKOK: -- Red shirts announce that today is the last time they will sit down for negotiations with the government and it must end with a House dissolution.

They say if the prime minister thinks that is too soon, he has to consider that he still has 60 days before elections take place.

So to read this correctly ---Reds say "This is not actually a negotiation, this is a demand." and they mean by this "We can't afford to let Abhisit look so smart and reasonable to the red mob that is watching this on TV"

By not negotiating, they will still have the support of the red die hards, but they will lose support from the moderate reds, and certainly lose support from anyone that was on the fence.

They are not interested in free and fair elections. They want elections now while they still have money to buy votes (whether this is directly buying votes, or paying people to bully votes). The further away the elections, the less chance they have of corrupting it. And they can't win if they can't do that.

They can't answer basic questions like "How will a house dissolution help the whole country?".

They can't commit to not interfering with the judiciary.

A majority of the people will see that they are just there to get Thaksin his money back.

In all of your threads you seem to make it up as you go along and then present it as facts.

I don't believe that it is possible to buy votes if it is tell me how it is done. In any case why would they need to buy votes? There are very few people in this country who believe that Abhisit can possibly win the next election and that I would think includes Abhisit himself which is why, in spite of the fact that he has to live in his bolt hole on the Air Force base, he is clinging desperately to power. On the other hand after Abhisit loses the election will he ask the Military and Amataya to try to buy Goverment MPs and the millions of votes that they represent so that he can remain as installed Prime Minister exactly as happened to make him Prime Minister in the first place.

The Red Shirt answer to the basic question "How will house dissolution help the whole country?" would be it would be that it would return democracy and give them back the Government that they voted for.

Sundays demonstration was near to my apartment and I went down to watch it. I did not see anything that could be described as a mob. Why do you use such a word?

The things this Prime Minister is doing to cling to power is appalling. For instance spreading stories that the Red Shirts are carrying diseases especially H1N1. It turns out that one man in their number had H1N1 and surprise surprise it appears he is not even a Red Shirt but one of the "volunteers" recruited by Abhisit from the Ministry of the Interior to infiltrate the Red Shirt movement and cause trouble. A smart reasonable Prime Minister?

What alot of B*** . Itell you now, If any elction that is legitimate brings Peau Thai into government, Basket case Thailand here we come.

[webfact]

Thai Peace Talks End Without Resolution

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