Letters To The Post

[Guest IT Manager]

The following was in Todays Postbag. (7 Nov 2003).

I hope that what wrote it is a member of the forum, because he needs to be taken to task for opening his yap probably between beers, or Mekhongs.

"'Gay Christians' is an oxymoron

I am not religious, so perhaps it is without bias that the sight on television of a consecrated gay bishop embracing his "chum" filled me with moral outrage. Surely the phrase "gay Christian" is an oxymoron of the most obvious moral kind.

I have nothing against gays, but I do object to having their self-righteous propaganda thrust down my throat.

Ken Haydock

Chon Buri"

I suspect that Ken maybe the moron. I also wonder whether he mispelled his last name deliberately.

[KevinN]

I do not see anything wrong with the post by Ken Haydock.

It is right on as far as I am conserned,There are a lot of us that feel the same way,so whats the beef?

I think that there is a place for queers,but being a bishop in one of the worlds largest churches is not the correct place..

[Guest IT Manager]

I do not see anything wrong with the post by Ken Haydock.

It is right on as far as I am conserned,There are a lot of us that feel the same way,so whats the beef?

I think that there is a place for queers,but being a bishop in one of the worlds largest churches is not the correct place..

Kevin I understand why you wouldn't see much wrong with it. A highly educated chap such as yourself is unlikely to see much wrong with anything, so I suppose it's of no CONSERN.

[ThaiAdventure]

I've seen a lot worse posted on this forum!

[taxexile]

I have nothing against gays, but I do object to having their self-righteous propaganda thrust down my throat.

said the clergyman to the bishop????

[sbk]

come come IT, not everyone who can't spell is an uneducated, narrow-minded person.

I just don't see why someone's sexuality has anything at all to do with their spirituality. Reminds me of a time in Taiwan, a friend of mine with blond hair and blue eyes overheard a small child ask her mom, "look, that lady has blue eyes, does that mean she doesn't have a soul?" different does not make inferior or less human.

[Butterfly]

Well at least that Bishop is open about it. Still beats the other Christians having "fun" with children because they can't have it their way with their Church

[plachon]

Hey, IT, you got to hand it to the Post that they are very liberal in which letters they print, which makes it a beacon of free speech, rarely if ever found in the Press of this corner of the world. I've seen letters from lefties, righties, greenies, hippies, gays, straights, transexuals, Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Jews, Buddhists, Marxists, neo-liberal capitalists, nationalists, and extremists of every sort. I've even seen a series of letters by people defending their rights to molest children! You name it, they've been in there at some time or another. For that they should be commended, not condemned, whether you happen to agree with the writer's point of view or not. Why not write to the Post with your counter-position, rather than this other forum of diverse opinion and poor English?

[Nat]

I have nothing against gays, but I do object to having their self-righteous propaganda thrust down my throat.

Then maybe he should shut his mouth

Seriously though, discussion about religon (or politics) rarely follows a rational course so will just add this - it should not matter if a person is male, female, gay, bi-sexual etc. as long as they perform their duties properly.

[Guest IT Manager]

Hey, IT, you got to hand it to the Post

I do hand it to them.

They are a rational point in an irrational world. I didn't bag the post, notice I didn't even bag the person who bagged me. Just found it interesting and thought to share my view here.

I enjoy discussions on topics that are inflammatory or dopey in their genesis, but here at least we have the capacity to discuss in a (generally) rational manner, what we see happening about us in LOS and the rest of the inhabited world. It's one of my major reasons for coming into Thaivisa. Discussions with my wife begin like this. Start with a point, hash the other side out and decide whether the original idea/doctrine dogma etc., was worthy of even being mentioned.

Many people write to the post. It's rare to have a discussion about the matter. Certainly in the Post, as the letter is printed then forgotten. Here at least we see the original, we discuss that as well as others' views of the original and then the responses made.

I was pleased to see some folks pick up on my jest about spelling, which was just that.

In fact, I agree with Nat. He should have shut his mouth. He didn't so in opening his trap, he invited reasoned discussion. Here it is.

I just mowed the lawn and wondered how a response along the lines of "hey cousin Hokey, you stll got that corn cob pipe I found down by the barn when we were kids. Hyuk hyuk. Boy howdy weren't our mams pissed when they found us with them sheep? Hyuk hyuk.

But I decided not to do it, because someone may think I was trying to fan a little fire. Hyuk hyuk.

I'm not. I just like to discuss and see other peoples opinions. I don't care if the bishops boyfriend is not an episcopelian, or a Muslim or any other thing. He's happy and the Xtian Church gets turned upside down because some people see the "written" word as being infallible. That to me, is the crux of the issue. In short "If you don't see it my way, you are wrong. To me that is DUMB. It means that people stop learning and expanding their brain box.

I find it interesting, that a clergyman I know extremely well says he is somewhat off, most of the "miracles" of the word. They seem to be fictions supported by the "vagaries of Faith". "If you don't believe it brothers and sisters you don't have faith, you won't go to heaven, and you won't inherit the "KIngdom of God"".

My all-time favourite quote from a (gasp) female pastor, was "When God Made Man, she was only Joking"

That is a good standby when the heat of the quasi-religious socio-economic melting pot gets too much to bear.

[Nat]

IT must admit I pictured a similar yokel (worried about the backlash to mention it ) - also think your posts are great.

When I was young I was forced to study theology for a while and being the curious child I was asked the priest: "If someone does not believe in God, but are a good person, do they go to ######?" (after all it's a threat that's been used for centuries) His response was "as long as one lives their life through the laws of God they will go to heaven" (still trying to figure out what that means today )

[Nat]

do they go to ######?"

Oh my God! I must be using blasphemy as that's suppose to be h*ll - better watch out I don't get struck by lightning

[Axel]

I cannot understand the ratio behind being gay, but gays do exist. Coming out openly as a clergy-man did shock a lot of people. However, it is honest.

Here I am and cannot otherwise or something like that.

I many societies homosexuality is accepted, so be it. As long as they accept, I am not.

Clergyman or not, it is just another job IMHO.

Spelling btw, let's write fonetic or is it phonetically? Me Engrish very bed.

[marquess]

come come IT, not everyone who can't spell is an uneducated, narrow-minded person.

I just don't see why someone's sexuality has anything at all to do with their spirituality. Reminds me of a time in Taiwan, a friend of mine with blond hair and blue eyes overheard a small child ask her mom, "look, that lady has blue eyes, does that mean she doesn't have a soul?" different does not make inferior or less human.

I think the point is that if you want to lead, then should it not be done by example?

[wilson steer]

Yes, I saw this letter in the Bangkok Post, and I thought, yes this man has a point. The phrase 'Gay Christian' is an Oxymoron.

Please would the topic leader (IT...) state...

1. If he is a gay Christian

2. Why he is so upset about this letter

3. If he or she is a gay Christian, outline why the phrase should NOT be oxymoronic?

Interesting idea, I wanted to include the phrase bashing the bishop but couldn't!!

[KevinN]

I being an atheist do not know to much about the bible,But I have heard it said that the bible speaks out again homosexuals,so if it so,then how can a bishop admit to being something that the book of Christian religions is again.

and if the bible does in fact condemn queers then how can one be made a bishop??

[Guest IT Manager]

I think the point is that if you want to lead, then should it not be done by example?

To clarify before responding, do you mean that the Bishop cannot lead people in a Xtian way if he is Gay?

[Guest IT Manager]

Yes, I saw this letter in the Bangkok Post, and I thought, yes this man has a point. The phrase 'Gay Christian' is an Oxymoron.

Please would the topic leader (IT...) state...

1. If he is a gay Christian

2. Why he is so upset about this letter

3. If he or she is a gay Christian, outline why the phrase should NOT be oxymoronic?

Interesting idea, I wanted to include the phrase bashing the bishop but couldn't!!

1.a) Is in fact 2 parts. I rang my wife at work and asked her whether I am Gay. She said, and I quote "no darling, it's Friday".

1. I rang my Dad and said "Am I a Xtian? He said, no my son. Anyone who cannot in good faith write Christ-ian and says Xtian, is more likely Buddhist. The monk at our Wat who is Gay said no, you are not gay darling and you are defintely not Xtian.

2) I wasn't upset, Wilson and if you read what I wrote in the second post, you will find the reason for the post. Had nothing to do with being cross about the letter in the Post, so much as the Post prints drivel. No meat in the letters cloumn except the occasional gem from Khantabutra, who I am not fully convinced is Thai. His reasoning is very deep and his social conscience is way ahead of anything in LOS in my experience, which indicates an education outside the LOS system.

3) Xtians are supposed to be happy. It goes without saying then, that all Xtians are gay. "If your happy and you know it clap your hands", to quote one sunday school memory. Ergo it isn't an oxymoron.

Outside of that, a quote from someone in Government in (don't quote me but I think it was America) saying that he didn't care what a person was so long as they don't shove it down his throat. This of course caused me to wonder what that meant.

Definitely he, by the way Wilson. I asked my wife about that also. She said "darling it's Friday. Let's discuss it over a bottle of something Red and Australian. I suggested Henschke. She suggested cask. She won.

And just for you, Wilson, I wonder if they (the happy couple) are into bdsm, in which case perhaps the Boyfriend Bashes the Bishop. Has a nice ring to it... BTB ... Friday Frolics. Probably make a one handed novel with that as the base. Hmmmm...

[Begs]

what are you on IT?

[Guest IT Manager]

Swear to God, one can of Chang.

[stumonster]

IT, I hope you are not in shorts , singlet and thongs drinking that chang at the corner shop...

I find all religions like insurance policies..... and I think all insurance is a scam..

How did this ken haydock find that someones beliefs were being forced down his throat, I suspect he has been choking a mighty long time...

I think the posts letters page is a good read on most days, and I enjoy seeing the letters from some, who I presume from the names are thais. But there are many from narrow minded ex-pats.

and I think the posts proof readers need a kick up the arse.

[plachon]

and I think the posts proof readers need a kick up the arse.

I suspect some of them might enjoy that too much, too much..............

And the Post's Letter Box is a good read, any day. Khun Burin is Thai IT, I'm sure of that, just not Thai-educated. But what's happened to Edith Clampwell (Mrs), his prolific predecesser?

[Axel]

But what's happened to Edith Clampwell (Mrs), his prolific predecesser?

Last seen in Tokyo's Akihabara market, trying to buy a new electric toothbrush.

[Guest IT Manager]

And the Post's Letter Box is a good read, any day. Khun Burin is Thai IT, I'm sure of that, just not Thai-educated. But what's happened to Edith Clampwell (Mrs), his prolific predecesser?

I think it was Edith Clampitt (Mrs). I also enjoy reading it. Unfortunately the breakfast eggs get hashed over someone writing about gun control from Melbourne or some other ###-forsaken place, who has been here for a weeks holiday with the wife and comments about how much he appreciates the stand taken by someone or other that he read about in the Post or The Nation.

Newspapers are not interactive, mores the pity. Here at least we can make comments about letters and work out what views of them and the attitudes expressed, are around among those who live here and those who wish they did.

IMHO

[dr_Pat_Pong]

PHONETIC Axel. His Grace has adopted a new motto on his Coat of Arms ' NEVER LEAVE YOUR MATES BEHIND '

[francois]

Seriously though, discussion about religon (or politics) rarely follows a rational course so will just add this - it should not matter if a person is male, female, gay, bi-sexual etc. as long as they perform their duties properly.

here we are ... so wrong!

first, we are talking about anglican church, whick may I say has nothing to do with other Christians, they are prostestant, closer to some american churches.

two, this has no chance to happen in the roman catholic church.

which, may I say, is the one with millions ... (not the one we talk about)

three, there are rules guiding churches, any church of any kind has some,

the fact is that this Anglican church had been kicked out by Rome religious power just because england had a "kind of <deleted>" as a king, (remember Henry8th?..)

with all this in mind, my way of thinking is, churches are getting empty because of

a lack of faith, a lack of religious leaders, people who, with a few words could

attrack attention of millions just coz of the rightness of what they say ...

(read, Gandhy, mother Theresa and so many more ..)

please, don't missunderstand what I say, I'm not in a Christian crusade

just, have a strong faith, and look at all this so called open minds saying that this ordination was a progress ... in my own opinion it is just the opposit!

in the sixties also, people believed that a better world could come out ... did it?

and if you have no faith, please don't get down hard on people who have some

[Guest IT Manager]

FWIW Francois, I think you are wrong for the following reasons:

* The church is, in its' perfect form, representative of the people and If a percentage of the people are gay or chinese or french, shouldn't the leadership reflect that?

* If the Bishop is Chinese, should he not be consecrated for that reason, since "most" epicopelians/anglicans are not?

* If the Bishop is properly educated in the role, and has the support and trust of his diocese or synod, should that not be sufficient for the smelly masses around the world wringing their hands saying "what will God think, we are all damned", who have no idea at all about him as a person?

* If the people on the ground know and trust him to guide "THEM" not the smelly masses, then why should the smelly masses get a voice in the debate. Seems he has more of a following in his region than perhaps Dubya had at the recent "erection".

[plachon]

first, we are talking about anglican church, whick may I say has nothing to do with other Christians, they are prostestant, closer to some american churches.

two, this has no chance to happen in the roman catholic church.

which, may I say, is the one with millions ... (not the one we talk about)

You're right, Francois, the RC church is still debating things like whether to allow contraception or not, has hardly moved on to abortion so still condemns it outright as a "mortal sin" and whether we should believe the Genesis version of events or concede that evolution might just be possible. In fact, it's so progressive in it's attitudes, I'm surprised they've even forgiven the 16th century renaissance heretics they condemned to death or excommunicated for daring to suggest contrary views to Rome. Nowadays, the White House has assumed the papal role in deciding who is a heretic or not, who shall live or die in the Great Game ....... "you're either with or us or you're against us"......... never forget those immortal words.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Well the Royal story is that Prince Charles buggered the Chief of Staff. When the Bonnie Prince Charlie ascends the throne he'll be the titular head of the Church of England and defender of the faith

[Nat]

open minds

it's a curse francois but on the positive side there's always plenty of space for redecorating

oh... it also enables one to see another's point of view and respect it