The Thais Working Israel's Farms

[Huey]

Hamas and the PLO.

Freedom or Death

Well, it mostly seems to be death.

Freedom isn't Free, History has shown us in instances all around the world and since time immemorial that Death is almost always the cost of Freedom. The question always comes down to how much can a society pay before it's will to be free is broken?

In the US brave men and women, their families and loved ones, have paid rivers of blood for the Freedom you and I know have Ulysses. So personaly I don't knock their struggle I just hate the fact that my country is so deeply involved.

[Ulysses G.]

Israelis want to be free. Palestinians want to be free. It takes compromise.

[tigerfish]

Hamas and the PLO.

Freedom or Death

Well, it mostly seems to be death.

depends on how you look at it.

death fighting for freedom or death because isreal said it was justified to go and blitz an entire community, because they had reason to beleive that it was harbouring a so called fraction of hamas or hezbolla insurgents. and you were fed it by some u.s. news network and choose to beleive it.

[onlooker]

I spent a year working on a Moshav in the Golan Heights in the mid 90s, lots of Thais working there then. The good thing was they worked far harder and faster than the majority of western workers. The bad thing was that they needed more supervision as communication was harder and if they screwed something up and the farmer didnt notice until the end of the day, a lot of crops could get damaged.

[Pakboong]

The Thai worker who died last month has been the only fatality on the Israeli side for about a year. things seem to be looking okay for the Israelis. The Palestinians on the otherhand, had more air strikes today against various locations in Gaza.

I can't imagine Hamas firing off a few rockets just to encourage the Israeli air strikes. Possible but not plausible. There were 20 rockets and mortars fired into Israel from Gaza in March. Nobody knows for sure who fired these rockets. Hamas is held accountable regardless and the certain response is always indiscriminate.

The only reason I have ever had any interest in this is based upon the unusual response it always seems to get. Otherwise, I have no interest; it is really none of my business.

[F1fanatic]

The truth is that the wall and the travel restrictions have virtually stopped suicide bombing in Israel. It is too bad that the Palestinians have rejected every peace proposal and elected violent criminals - Hamas - to represent them in Gaza or maybe these measures would not be so necessary.

Unfortunately the Israeli government are seen by many as "violent criminals" "rejecting every peace proposal" - or at least ignoring the proposals that have been agreed to - too.

As I said in an earlier post (and others have re-iterated on this thread), BOTH have committed atrocities. Neither side is innocent in this dispute. Israel is lucky in having so much support from the USA, but the Palestinians need to realise that even though Israel is an artificial state set up after the war, they should just accept the Israelis as people (rather than a people with a different religion that have been forced onto their territory). If both sides could do this ( ), peace could be achieved.

Unfortunately this is unlikely to happen in our life time.

Few things more loathsome than religious fanatics IMO.

[Ulysses G.]

I can't imagine Hamas firing off a few rockets just to encourage the Israeli air strikes.

I can't imagine them sending suicide bombers to kill civilians - especially when they know that there will be retaliation - but they have done it over and over. That is why Thais are working in the farms instead of Palestinians. There are two sides to the story.

[Huey]

Israelis want to be free. Palestinians want to be free. It takes compromise.

Dose it?

It didn't take comprimise for our country. America killed the vast majority of it's native inhabitents whos land they stole. Heck goveners even used to offer bounties for Natives, $20 and & $80 a head and one point. Thouse that were not killed were assimilated and chritianized. And the few that are left suffer from Alcholisim and joblessness on the reservation, while a lucky few are tied into "Guilt" cassinos that the govt lets them have.

That was a century ago, and America has since appologized and corrected it's ways. Yet we still help our so called "ally" make the same horrendus inhumane mistakes we did.

So it dosn't always take comprimise it always takes blood. Always.

[Ulysses G.]

Are you saying that Israel should slaughter all the Palestinians and get it over with? That is what your rhetoric suggests and I don't agree.

Edited April 2, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[F1fanatic]

I can't imagine Hamas firing off a few rockets just to encourage the Israeli air strikes.

I can't imagine them sending suicide bombers to kill civilians - especially when they know that there will be retaliation - but they have done it over and over. That is why Thais are working in the farms instead of Palestinians. There are two sides to the story.

Of course they don't need to send suicide bombers to kill civilians, they can afford the high tech war equipment that allows them to pursue a high-tech war that kills the Palestinians whilst risking few of their own lives.

Having no other recourse than suicide bombings, SOME Palestinians willingly give their lives in retaliation. Which (of course) means that Israeli's dare not employ them.

[Ulysses G.]

The Palestinians declared war on Israel - not the other way around - and refused a two state solution. Which came first the chicken or the egg?

[geriatrickid]

Just as I anticipated, a nice story on Thais overseas is hijacked into a bash Israel thread. Well let's see, I have some time to kill waiting for the boss cuz it's pouring here.

Let's deal with this gem, courtesy of the renowned geopolitical expert;

That being said, thats just dead wrong that not only did they take the native inhabitant's land but they won't even let them till the fields to put food on their plates.

What part about uncontested land did you miss? The location of this farm has never been claimed by the arab negotiators. True, many of the arabs won't rest until Israel is exterminated, but there is still a portion of the local population that accepts that the land has been Hebrew land since the dawn of time. You know that Jesus guy was wandering about the place and last I heard, he had one heck of a Passover seder about this time of year. So where do you get off saying they took over the inhabitants land? It was desolate scrub desert until the Israelis started that farmland. BTW, when the Israelis pulled back from Gaza, the former Egyptian territory, they left a farm infrastructure, including greenhouses. The local arabs could have worked it but instead chose to loot everything. I certainly hope that on your next holiday in to afghanistan that one of the Pashtan IEDs doesn't go boom near you. It might cause you to change your sentiments.

one question.

how many of you have spent a long length of time in israel/palestine.

apart from our resident mod.

2 weeks It is where I developed my profound dislike of Israelis. Yup, a dislike.

two place names and a person

sabra and shatila, ariel sharon.

go figure!

I regret that the Christian phalangist militias undertook this horrible massacre. Unfortunately, arabs have a tendency to carry on blood feuds. It was revenge for the murder of Christian leader Gemayel and if I am not mistaken the multiple massacres by the PLO and Syrian government of oppressed Christian minorities. As Israeli defense minister, the buck stopped with Sharon but he did not undertake the massacre. It would seem that the Israelis were incompetent and unable to secure the area. Despite assumptions that the IDF is invincible, it has benefited in large part because its opponents were more incompetent and corrupt. However, the Lebanese commander of the unit that undertook the murders went on to serve as a cabinet minister of Lebanon and was a long time MP. I find it strange that no one ever brought charges of war crimes against him or harassed him when he visited the UK or Belgium. If you really want to ride on your high horse of hypocrisy, go after the Syrians because they murdered Gemayel and they were backing Abu Nidal that was firing rockets into Israel.

Anyway, back to the positive side of the story. Thais are doing well and sending money back to Thailand where it is used for positive things like taking care of the family and certainly not used for destroying historic Buddha monuments in other countries.

[geriatrickid]

Of course they don't need to send suicide bombers to kill civilians, they can afford the high tech war equipment that allows them to pursue a high-tech war that kills the Palestinians whilst risking few of their own lives.

Having no other recourse than suicide bombings, SOME Palestinians willingly give their lives in retaliation. Which (of course) means that Israeli's dare not employ them.

Actually they have a preference for the mentally handicapped and children. If you recall, the use of the retarded male last year that was caught at the crossing even brought about condemnation from various faction leaders.

[Carib]

What legit land are the hired thai people working???

[Ulysses G.]

It looks like the Arab countries should have accepted the UN plan in 1947 instead of starting war after war and always losing.

Edited April 2, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[F1fanatic]

Of course they don't need to send suicide bombers to kill civilians, they can afford the high tech war equipment that allows them to pursue a high-tech war that kills the Palestinians whilst risking few of their own lives.

Having no other recourse than suicide bombings, SOME Palestinians willingly give their lives in retaliation. Which (of course) means that Israeli's dare not employ them.

Actually they have a preference for the mentally handicapped and children. If you recall, the use of the retarded male last year that was caught at the crossing even brought about condemnation from various faction leaders.

One retarded male from the MANY suicide bombers?? Proves nothing, certainly not that "they have a preference for the mentally handicapped and children".

[geriatrickid]

What legit land are the hired thai people working???

:D

You put up a propaganda piece from the PLO and expect to be taken seriously?

How about you start with the Gaza strip. It is Egyptian land. The arabs that you call by the Roman created name of Palestinian are occupying land they should not be on. It is 100% Egyptian. Thing is Egypt doesn't want to take back control because it doesn't want to have to deal with arab squatters. It's a shame your map leaves out Jordan. Historically, the "Palestinian" arabs have always laid claim to parts of the west bank and Jordan. The Hashemites were installed by the British and had no historical right to be there. it is why the 1970 uprising was fought and why the Jordanians expelled the 'Palestinians'. Where do you think the term Black September comes from? Part of the current refugee problem is caused by the fact that the neighboring arab countries have all expelled the "Palestinian" arabs at some point. Your map also excludes the Bedouins. I know it must com as a shock but the Bedouin tribes were nomadic arabs and roamed the areas claimed by the PLO. What about the Druze and Christian occupied areas? Sometimes the Christians get lumped in with the "Palestinians" when it is convenient, except they usually opt out once the restrictions on their religion come into play.

Come back and play when you have a bit of education, ok.

[F1fanatic]

The Palestinians declared war on Israel - not the other way around - and refused a two state solution. Which came first the chicken or the egg?

Its too long ago for any unbiased person to care. We only care about what's going on now - and its awful on both sides.

[Ulysses G.]

Of course they don't need to send suicide bombers to kill civilians, they can afford the high tech war equipment that allows them to pursue a high-tech war that kills the Palestinians whilst risking few of their own lives.

Having no other recourse than suicide bombings, SOME Palestinians willingly give their lives in retaliation. Which (of course) means that Israeli's dare not employ them.

Sorry, but you certainly don't seem to be "unbiased" from looking at your posts. You should not post this type of stuff if you don't want a perfectly valid response.

[geriatrickid]

Of course they don't need to send suicide bombers to kill civilians, they can afford the high tech war equipment that allows them to pursue a high-tech war that kills the Palestinians whilst risking few of their own lives.

Having no other recourse than suicide bombings, SOME Palestinians willingly give their lives in retaliation. Which (of course) means that Israeli's dare not employ them.

Actually they have a preference for the mentally handicapped and children. If you recall, the use of the retarded male last year that was caught at the crossing even brought about condemnation from various faction leaders.

One retarded male from the MANY suicide bombers?? Proves nothing, certainly not that "they have a preference for the mentally handicapped and children".

Tell you what, let's go tit for tat. I'll give you examples and you can cite the incidents where the bomber is an adult male. I'll even let you use the ones that disguise themselves as women to avoid being searched, but you have to identify that. Ok I'll go first;

An Israeli soldier manning a checkpoint near the city of Nablus discovered a 6.5 kg/13 lb explosive device in the bag of a 12-year-old Palestinian boy, the youngest ever would-be suicide bomber. The alert soldier discovered the bomb after hearing a cell phone ring tone coming from the boy’s bag. Many lives were saved in this incident, but only because a cell phone connected to the bomb failed to detonate the explosive. Following investigations, it was revealed that a Palestinian group affiliated with the Fatah movement, the ruling party at the time, tricked the boy, Abdullah Quran, into carrying the device in his schoolbag. The child was released when it became clear that he believed he was carrying car parts to a woman “waiting” on the other side of the checkpoint.

The incident, which gained worldwide publicity, drew some criticism from the Palestinian public toward the terrorist organizations for using young children to carry out attacks. Regardless, it was only eight days later that Hussam Abdo, a mentally handicapped 16-year-old whose mental development, according to his brother, is equivalent to that of a 12-year-old, was captured wearing an explosives-laden vest.

[Carib]

What legit land are the hired thai people working???

You put up a propaganda piece from the PLO and expect to be taken seriously?

How about you start with the Gaza strip. It is Egyptian land. The arabs that you call by the Roman created name of Palestinian are occupying land they should not be on. It is 100% Egyptian. Thing is Egypt doesn't want to take back control because it doesn't want to have to deal with arab squatters. It's a shame your map leaves out Jordan. Historically, the "Palestinian" arabs have always laid claim to parts of the west bank and Jordan. The Hashemites were installed by the British and had no historical right to be there. it is why the 1970 uprising was fought and why the Jordanians expelled the 'Palestinians'. Where do you think the term Black September comes from? Part of the current refugee problem is caused by the fact that the neighboring arab countries have all expelled the "Palestinian" arabs at some point. Your map also excludes the Bedouins. I know it must com as a shock but the Bedouin tribes were nomadic arabs and roamed the areas claimed by the PLO. What about the Druze and Christian occupied areas? Sometimes the Christians get lumped in with the "Palestinians" when it is convenient, except they usually opt out once the restrictions on their religion come into play.

Come back and play when you have a bit of education, ok.

I don't have to come back after educating myself, please read the 1947 UN resolution and see what was recognised and what was not. Educate yourself instead of just taking the oh so well known US stand on this subject. All other arguments you allegedly try to frame on me are non valid.

[Ulysses G.]

Didn't the Arabs declare war after that? They should have accepted the plan when they had a chance.

[Carib]

Didn't the Arabs declare war after that? They should have accepted the plan when they had a chance.

Did the Indian's in the US accept the various truces? To be slaughtered anyway??" Would any people with a cause do that?

The Israeli people didn't really accept the 1947 resolution either, or did they?

Would you have accepted. Your question is a non brainer . Israel has shown nothing but contempt for any deal made, even if they made it themselves.

Without US help Israel would never ever have won a thing. Only the funds and weapons pouring in to the country coming from the US gave them that edge.

But this was about Thai workers in Israel, I am sure we will not solve the Arab-Israeli problem here.

Regards

[F1fanatic]

Of course they don't need to send suicide bombers to kill civilians, they can afford the high tech war equipment that allows them to pursue a high-tech war that kills the Palestinians whilst risking few of their own lives.

Having no other recourse than suicide bombings, SOME Palestinians willingly give their lives in retaliation. Which (of course) means that Israeli's dare not employ them.

Sorry, but you certainly don't seem to be "unbiased" from looking at your posts. You should not post this type of stuff if you don't want a perfectly valid response.

Ummm, no. I responded to your post blaming everything on the Palestinians.

I'm merely trying to point out that both sides are as bad as each other.

[Ulysses G.]

Sorry, but I don't see it that way. You are just as biased as I am.

I'm sure most of us have our own sympathies

Edited April 2, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[F1fanatic]

Of course they don't need to send suicide bombers to kill civilians, they can afford the high tech war equipment that allows them to pursue a high-tech war that kills the Palestinians whilst risking few of their own lives.

Having no other recourse than suicide bombings, SOME Palestinians willingly give their lives in retaliation. Which (of course) means that Israeli's dare not employ them.

Actually they have a preference for the mentally handicapped and children. If you recall, the use of the retarded male last year that was caught at the crossing even brought about condemnation from various faction leaders.

One retarded male from the MANY suicide bombers?? Proves nothing, certainly not that "they have a preference for the mentally handicapped and children".

Tell you what, let's go tit for tat. I'll give you examples and you can cite the incidents where the bomber is an adult male. I'll even let you use the ones that disguise themselves as women to avoid being searched, but you have to identify that. Ok I'll go first;

An Israeli soldier manning a checkpoint near the city of Nablus discovered a 6.5 kg/13 lb explosive device in the bag of a 12-year-old Palestinian boy, the youngest ever would-be suicide bomber. The alert soldier discovered the bomb after hearing a cell phone ring tone coming from the boy's bag. Many lives were saved in this incident, but only because a cell phone connected to the bomb failed to detonate the explosive. Following investigations, it was revealed that a Palestinian group affiliated with the Fatah movement, the ruling party at the time, tricked the boy, Abdullah Quran, into carrying the device in his schoolbag. The child was released when it became clear that he believed he was carrying car parts to a woman "waiting" on the other side of the checkpoint.

The incident, which gained worldwide publicity, drew some criticism from the Palestinian public toward the terrorist organizations for using young children to carry out attacks. Regardless, it was only eight days later that Hussam Abdo, a mentally handicapped 16-year-old whose mental development, according to his brother, is equivalent to that of a 12-year-old, was captured wearing an explosives-laden vest.

Do I really need to point out again that the Palestinians don't have access to the high tech weapons that the Israelis enjoy?

They have to rely on the fanatics (who are prepared to give up their life) to fight the Israelis.

I keep repeating - BOTH SIDES ARE WAY BEYOND THE PALE.

The whole thing is a nightmare and because neither side are about to accept the other, it will continue way beyond our life-times.

As I said before, I really hate religious fanatics.

[Mossfinn]

This is a forum about Thailand, not Israel.

Did you actually write that?

[hawthorne]

lets see.. you take the land away from mister Palisitine, now you don't allow him to even be a migrant worker on the land he use to own....

I am glad for the opportunities of the Thai people. The latest unofficial figures had 30,000 plus Thai workers in Bahrain. Most are in the construction trade.

[Ulysses G.]

Without US help Israel would never ever have won a thing. Only the funds and weapons pouring in to the country coming from the US gave them that edge.

The U.S. did not give Israel a lot of help until they won the Yom Kipper War. Learn some history.

The 1948 Arab–Israeli War, known by Israelis as the War of Independence (Hebrew: מלחמת העצמאות‎, Milhemet HaAtzma'ut) or War of Liberation (Hebrew: מלחמת השחרור‎, Milhemet HaShihrur) and by the Arabs as the Catastrophe (Arabic: النكبة‎, al-Nakba), was the first in a series of wars fought between the newly declared State of Israel and its Arab neighbours in the long-running Arab-Israeli conflict.

The war commenced upon the termination of the British Mandate of Palestine in mid-May 1948 following a previous phase of civil war in 1947–1948. After the Arab rejection of the 1947 United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine (UN General Assembly Resolution 181) that would have created an Arab state and a Jewish state side by side, five Arab states invaded the territory of the former British Mandate of Palestine.

Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria attacked the state of Israel, leading to fighting mostly on the former territory of the British Mandate and for a short time also on the Sinai Peninsula and southern Lebanon^[6]. The war concluded with the 1949 Armistice Agreements, but it did not mark the end of the Arab-Israeli conflict.

Edited April 2, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[Boo]

How sad that an interesting topic about thai workers in Israel, that could have potentially turned into a good topic on migrant thai workers is unable to carry on due to the usual suspects turning it into a flame fest over Israel/Palestine. CLOSED