How Can I Use This Expression W/out Offending

[Boon Mee]

The expression มันเป็นธรรมดาที่ผู้ชายจะชอบผู็็็หญิงดีอย่างคุฌ "mun pen tham-ma-da thee phoo-chai ja chawp pooying dee yang koon" which translates literally as "It's usual that a man would like a good woman like you" - to the Farang mind can mean one thing but in a middle-class Thai social setting might offend?

Wondering if anyone can shed some light?

Cheers,

บุญมี

[RDN]

The expression  มันเป็นธรรมดาที่ผู้ชายจะชอบผู็็็หญิงดีอย่างคุฌ "mun pen tham-ma-da thee phoo-chai ja chawp pooying dee yang koon" which translates literally as "It's usual that a man would like a good woman like you" - to the Farang mind can mean one thing but in a middle-class Thai social setting might offend?

Wondering if anyone can shed some light?

Cheers,

บุญมี

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Minor correction... you forgot the ... ้ in ผู้หญิง

As for your question, I'm not knowledgeable to answer, but it's an excellent chat-up line!

[sabaijai]

The expression  มันเป็นธรรมดาที่ผู้ชายจะชอบผู็็็หญิงดีอย่างคุฌ "mun pen tham-ma-da thee phoo-chai ja chawp pooying dee yang koon" which translates literally as "It's usual that a man would like a good woman like you" - to the Farang mind can mean one thing but in a middle-class Thai social setting might offend?

Wondering if anyone can shed some light?

Cheers,

บุญมี

Where did you get this phrase, Boon Mee? It sounds awkward to me, like a straight translation from English to Thai rather than a sentence Thais would use in a flirting or dating situation.

Either way I don't think it would do much for the average Thai woman, middle class or otherwise. I think you'll find better lines than this if you ask your Thai friends.

Let's see what Yoot says, he'll have a better idea.

[Boon Mee]

The expression  มันเป็นธรรมดาที่ผู้ชายจะชอบผู็็็หญิงดีอย่างคุฌ "mun pen tham-ma-da thee phoo-chai ja chawp pooying dee yang koon" which translates literally as "It's usual that a man would like a good woman like you" - to the Farang mind can mean one thing but in a middle-class Thai social setting might offend?

Wondering if anyone can shed some light?

Cheers,

บุญมี

Where did you get this phrase, Boon Mee? It sounds awkward to me, like a straight translation from English to Thai rather than a sentence Thais would use in a flirting or dating situation.

Either way I don't think it would do much for the average Thai woman, middle class or otherwise. I think you'll find better lines than this if you ask your Thai friends.

Let's see what Yoot says, he'll have a better idea.

I got it straight out of Higbee. Don't have the book in front of me right now but will post the page number "prungnii" when I can get it.

RDN~

In defense of my dropped "mai toe" - don't know what why I couldn't get it to post - perhaps due to the "sara uu" written first? But I was aware it was left off. Good catch!

Edited May 30, 2005 by Boon Mee

[yoot]

The expression  มันเป็นธรรมดาที่ผู้ชายจะชอบผู็็็หญิงดีอย่างคุฌ "mun pen tham-ma-da thee phoo-chai ja chawp pooying dee yang koon" which translates literally as "It's usual that a man would like a good woman like you" - to the Farang mind can mean one thing but in a middle-class Thai social setting might offend?

Wondering if anyone can shed some light?

Cheers,

บุญมี

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where did you get this phrase, Boon Mee? It sounds awkward to me, like a straight translation from English to Thai rather than a sentence Thais would use in a flirting or dating situation.

Either way I don't think it would do much for the average Thai woman, middle class or otherwise. I think you'll find better lines than this if you ask your Thai friends.

Let's see what Yoot says, he'll have a better idea.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it would be better to correct this phrase a little bit.

มันเป็นเรื่องธรรมดาอยู่แล้วที่ผู้ชายจะชอบผู้หญิงดี ๆ อย่างคุณ

This phrase will offend or not it depends on the situation, the context of your conversation , your tone of voice, your body language while you say and who you are talking with.

If you are talking with your girlfriend , she asks you why you like her and you reply her as this . It doesn't sound romantic at all. Kind of no feeling.

If your female friend asks for your advice about her guy and this is your answer for her. It sounds like a praise (if you are really sincere with her).

But, if your girl friend has many guys to court on her and you are not happy with it. This phrase can be an irony if you are in the mood of fighting.

As you say " ฮึ มันเป็นเรื่องธรรมดาอยู่แล้วนี่ ที่ผู้ชายเค้าจะชอบผู้หญิงดี ๆ อย่างคุณ "

[Boon Mee]

The expression  มันเป็นธรรมดาที่ผู้ชายจะชอบผู็็็หญิงดีอย่างคุฌ "mun pen tham-ma-da thee phoo-chai ja chawp pooying dee yang koon" which translates literally as "It's usual that a man would like a good woman like you" - to the Farang mind can mean one thing but in a middle-class Thai social setting might offend?

Wondering if anyone can shed some light?

Cheers,

บุญมี

Where did you get this phrase, Boon Mee? It sounds awkward to me, like a straight translation from English to Thai rather than a sentence Thais would use in a flirting or dating situation.

Either way I don't think it would do much for the average Thai woman, middle class or otherwise. I think you'll find better lines than this if you ask your Thai friends.

Let's see what Yoot says, he'll have a better idea.

I think it would be better to correct this phrase a little bit.

มันเป็นเรื่องธรรมดาอยู่แล้วที่ผู้ชายจะชอบผู้หญิงดี ๆ อย่างคุณ

This phrase will offend or not it depends on the situation, the context of your conversation , your tone of voice, your body language while you say and who you are talking with.

If you are talking with your girlfriend , she asks you why you like her and you reply her as this . It doesn't sound romantic at all. Kind of no feeling.

If your female friend asks for your advice about her guy and this is your answer for her. It sounds like a praise (if you are really sincere with her).

But, if your girl friend has many guys to court on her and you are not happy with it. This phrase can be an irony if you are in the mood of fighting.

As you say " ฮึ มันเป็นเรื่องธรรมดาอยู่แล้วนี่ ที่ผู้ชายเค้าจะชอบผู้หญิงดี ๆ อย่างคุณ "

Thanks Yoot.

I'll cite the page number in Higbee later but would also like to add that most of my Thai friends say the grammer is a bit "stuffy" as he's written it?

How, for example, could it be used for a middle-aged matron who has never been married but who is attractive? My intention is not from a romantic standpoint here.

Edited May 30, 2005 by Boon Mee

[RDN]

...In defense of my dropped "mai toe" - don't know what why I couldn't get it to post - perhaps due to the "sara uu" written first?  But I was aware it was left off.  Good catch! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I remember another thread where someone said it was difficult to get "mai toes" and "sara uus" to work because of the critical order in which you have to hit the keys.

I've just given it a try and it's pho phung first ผ, then add sara uu ผู and lastly add the mai tho ผู้ .

P.S. I only "caught it" because the on-line dictionary at thai2english.com threw it out!

[yoot]

How, for example, could it be used for a middle-aged matron who has never been married but who is attractive?  My intention is not from a romantic standpoint here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, it can be used . But , how?

Whatever you want to say , it needs the initial point. The problem is when you should put this phrase during your conversation.

In case of just being FRIEND and it’s colloquial , you can use it as your opinion .

“ ถ้าถามผมนะ ผมว่าคุณเป็นคนที่มีเสน่ห์ แล้วก็เป็นเรื่องธรรมดาอยู่แล้ว ที่ผู้ชายจะมาชอบผู้หญิงดี ๆ อย่างคุณ …….“

But , if she is an attractive lady for you and you want to know her more ,

“ ผมว่านะ คุณนี่ทั้งดี และมีเสน่ห์ สงสัยจะมีหนุ่ม ๆ เยอะแยะมาชอบคุณ จนคุณเลือกไม่ถูกแน่เลย คุณถึงได้ไม่ยอมแต่งงานสัก ( pronounce as ซัก )ที มันเป็นเรื่องธรรมดาอยู่แล้ว ที่ผู้ชายเค้าจะมาชอบผู้หญิงดี ๆ อย่างคุณ ……….”

These are just examples , how to use it in real it depends on you.

[sabaijai]

The expression  มันเป็นธรรมดาที่ผู้ชายจะชอบผู็็็หญิงดีอย่างคุฌ "mun pen tham-ma-da thee phoo-chai ja chawp pooying dee yang koon" which translates literally as "It's usual that a man would like a good woman like you" - to the Farang mind can mean one thing but in a middle-class Thai social setting might offend?

Wondering if anyone can shed some light?

Cheers,

บุญมี

Where did you get this phrase, Boon Mee? It sounds awkward to me, like a straight translation from English to Thai rather than a sentence Thais would use in a flirting or dating situation.

Either way I don't think it would do much for the average Thai woman, middle class or otherwise. I think you'll find better lines than this if you ask your Thai friends.

Let's see what Yoot says, he'll have a better idea.

I got it straight out of Higbee.

That explains it.

[the scouser]

Don't know if this helps, but I just said the phrase to my wife. After she stopped laughing, she seemed quite flattered.

Scouse.

[Boon Mee]

What's the consensus of opinion on Higbie then fellas? I thought he was well-regarded w/respect to accurate portrayal of spoken grammer?

Anyhow, the phrase was used as an example for one of the four ways to "usually" on page 383. Ordinarily/Regularly/Habitually and in the example "it's usual" - "pen tham-ma-da" Higbie uses มันเป็นธรรมดาที่ผู้ชายจะชอบผู็็็หญิงดีอย่างคุฌ with the "mai toe" above the "paw peung" of course.

[Bobcat]

Here's my humble suggestion.

ผมคิดนะครับว่ามันเป็นเรื่องธรรมชาติที่ผู้ชายจะต้องชอบผู้หญิงที่ดีอย่างคุณแนๆ่

Edited May 31, 2005 by Bobcat

[meadish_sweetball]

What's the consensus of opinion on Higbie then fellas?  I thought he was well-regarded w/respect to accurate portrayal of spoken grammer?

Anyhow, the phrase was used as an example for one of the four ways to "usually" on page 383.  Ordinarily/Regularly/Habitually and in the example "it's usual" - "pen tham-ma-da" Higbie uses มันเป็นธรรมดาที่ผู้ชายจะชอบผู็็็หญิงดีอย่างคุฌ with the "mai toe" above the "paw peung" of course.

My personal opinion of Higbie's 'Thai Reference Grammar' is that it is good, but not fantastic. There are a number of examples in it that, while correct in terms of grammar, they still sound slightly alien compared to how the Thais around me speak. Maybe this is because it stretches the boundaries a little too far, and sometimes concentrates on the question 'How would you say this in Thai' - starting from a non-Thai (English/American) viewpoint, which means the examples run the risk of sounding a bit forced.

I think David Smyth's 'Thai - An Essential Grammar' is more accurate, but then again it is much more brief than Higbie, and Smyth does not get into long sentences all that much.

It is in the longer sentences you run the largest risk of sounding forced, because most people (irrespective of language) do not speak in complete sentences unless they are giving a speech. In normal conversation they are far more likely to just skip and stutter along, sometimes with incomplete phrases.

[Boon Mee]

Continuing exploration of "tham-ma-da" ธรรมดา, can I say: ธรรมดาฉันเป็นคนอะไรก็ได้"tham-má-daa chăn bpen kon à-rai gôr dâai" "I'm usually an easygoing person" in common usage?

Cheers,

บุญมี

Edited June 1, 2005 by Boon Mee

[yoot]

Continuing exploration of "tham-ma-da" ธรรมดา, can I say: ธรรมดาฉันเป็นคนอะไรก็ได้"tham-má-daa chăn bpen kon à-rai gôr dâai" "I'm usually an easygoing person" in common usage?

Cheers,

บุญมี

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ธรรมดาฉันเป็นคนอะไรก็ได้ ,It sounds awkward to me , sounds like ' Normally,I can be any kinds of person (bad, mad, good, smart, stupid, etc.) '

"I'm usually an easygoing person"

โดยทั่วไป ผมเป็นคนง่าย ๆ ยังไงก็ได้ (ไม่เรื่องมาก)

[Boon Mee]

Continuing exploration of "tham-ma-da" ธรรมดา, can I say: ธรรมดาฉันเป็นคนอะไรก็ได้"tham-má-daa chăn bpen kon à-rai gôr dâai" "I'm usually an easygoing person" in common usage?

Cheers,

บุญมี

ธรรมดาฉันเป็นคนอะไรก็ได้ ,It sounds awkward to me , sounds like ' Normally,I can be any kinds of person (bad, mad, good, smart, stupid, etc.) '

"I'm usually an easygoing person"

โดยทั่วไป ผมเป็นคนง่าย ๆ ยังไงก็ได้ (ไม่เรื่องมาก)

Cheers Yoot.

Another example of Higbie steering me wrong again...

[meadish_sweetball]

Boon, as the Thais say ค่อย ๆ ทำ ([F]khoy [F]khoy [M]tham - 'do it slowly', 'do it step by step'), and above all, grab every opportunity you can to listen to educated Thais in conversation. If you can get Thai TV, there are some news programs that are excellent for listening comprehension, and getting the feel for how to converse in Thai... because the conversation style is different from what most of us are used to as well.

ถึงลูกถึงคน 'Theung Luuk Theung Khon' is a TV light debate show on current Thai affairs, and the host, Khun Sorayuth, is a pretty good example of correct Central Thai male speech. Maybe you have a friend in Thailand you could persuade to videotape these shows for you - then watch it without a dictionary, try to follow as well as you can, see if you can distinguish any words or expressions, ask the Thais around you what the recurring words expressions you do not understand mean, maybe also look them up in your dictionaries and then write them down... or just watch the same shows over and over again and try to mimic their speech - this is good practice too - even if you dont have a clue what they are saying...

...one of the things I used to do while not in Thailand.

[Boon Mee]

Boon, as the Thais say ค่อย ๆ ทำ ([F]khoy [F]khoy [M]tham - 'do it slowly', 'do it step by step'), and above all, grab every opportunity you can to listen to educated Thais in conversation. If you can get Thai TV, there are some news programs that are excellent for listening comprehension, and getting the feel for how to converse in Thai... because the conversation style is different from what most of us are used to as well.

ถึงลูกถึงคน 'Theung Luuk Theung Khon' is a TV light debate show on current Thai affairs, and the host, Khun Sorayuth, is a pretty good example of correct Central Thai male speech. Maybe you have a friend in Thailand you could persuade to videotape these shows for you - then watch it without a dictionary, try to follow as well as you can, see if you can distinguish any words or expressions, ask the Thais around you what the recurring words expressions you do not understand mean, maybe also look them up in your dictionaries and then write them down... or just watch the same shows over and over again and try to mimic their speech - this is good practice too - even if you dont have a clue what they are saying...

...one of the things I used to do while not in Thailand.

Meadish~

I receive a couple of Thai channels on the telly - one out of LA and the other, TV5 and have them on as much as possible.

That is a good suggestion...

[greenwanderer108]

The expression  มันเป็นธรรมดาที่ผู้ชายจะชอบผู็็็หญิงดีอย่างคุฌ "mun pen tham-ma-da thee phoo-chai ja chawp pooying dee yang koon" which translates literally as "It's usual that a man would like a good woman like you" - to the Farang mind can mean one thing but in a middle-class Thai social setting might offend?

Wondering if anyone can shed some light?

Cheers,

บุญมี

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here's a possible scenerio where you might offend that girl: Let's say you are one of three guys fighting for her love. Atleast one of the other guys may/may have not slept with her but anyway, has not locked her down yet. You've seen her flirt with the other guy(s) She knows you've seen her, she's playing her cards out. Jealous as you may be, you've supressed your feelings and jealousy. Then when you talk to her,

Her ชอบฉันเหรอ ชอบตรงไหน

You มันเป็นธรรมดาที่ผู้ชายจะชอบผู้หญิงดีอย่างคุฌ

Her หมายความว่าอะไรนิ

You ก็เห็นผู้ชายมาจีบเยอะๆ (the jealousy is leaking and showing...she see's it...bad card)

The typical ending

Her เสียเวลาจริงๆ

You ทำไม ขอโทษ

Her มันเป็นธรรมดาที่ผู้ชายจะมาดูถูก

The Cut ending

Her เสียเวลาจริงๆ

You ทำไม ขอโทษ

Her หมายความว่าเสียเวลาพูดคุยกัน ไปห้องฉันจะดีกว่า ไปนอนกันไหม

anyway, sounds like it wasn't in a romantic context for you boon mee. Anyhow, don't be so rehearsed when speaking. let it flow...Cause it's always the chemistry that will get you the desired effect, any words can have the wrong effect if not backed with the right emotions.

[greenwanderer108]

Continuing exploration of "tham-ma-da" ธรรมดา, can I say: ธรรมดาฉันเป็นคนอะไรก็ได้"tham-má-daa chăn bpen kon à-rai gôr dâai" "I'm usually an easygoing person" in common usage?

Cheers,

บุญมี

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ธรรมดาฉันเป็นคนอะไรก็ได้ ,It sounds awkward to me , sounds like ' Normally,I can be any kinds of person (bad, mad, good, smart, stupid, etc.) '

"I'm usually an easygoing person"

โดยทั่วไป ผมเป็นคนง่าย ๆ ยังไงก็ได้ (ไม่เรื่องมาก)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cheers Yoot.

Another example of Higbie steering me wrong again...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

โดยทั่วไป seems too literal. litterly it makes sense, but you'd never hear anyone say it casually. Casually/commonly you'd more likely hear ปกติ in referring to abstract nouns such as time---usually, normally, etc.

as in

ปกติ ผมเป็นคนง่าย ๆ ยังไงก็ได้ (แต่บางที่บางเรื่องก็ต้องงมงาย)

[Boon Mee]

The expression  มันเป็นธรรมดาที่ผู้ชายจะชอบผู็็็หญิงดีอย่างคุฌ "mun pen tham-ma-da thee phoo-chai ja chawp pooying dee yang koon" which translates literally as "It's usual that a man would like a good woman like you" - to the Farang mind can mean one thing but in a middle-class Thai social setting might offend?

Wondering if anyone can shed some light?

Cheers,

บุญมี

Here's a possible scenerio where you might offend that girl: Let's say you are one of three guys fighting for her love. Atleast one of the other guys may/may have not slept with her but anyway, has not locked her down yet. You've seen her flirt with the other guy(s) She knows you've seen her, she's playing her cards out. Jealous as you may be, you've supressed your feelings and jealousy. Then when you talk to her,

Her ชอบฉันเหรอ ชอบตรงไหน

You มันเป็นธรรมดาที่ผู้ชายจะชอบผู้หญิงดีอย่างคุฌ

Her หมายความว่าอะไรนิ

You ก็เห็นผู้ชายมาจีบเยอะๆ (the jealousy is leaking and showing...she see's it...bad card)

The typical ending

Her เสียเวลาจริงๆ

You ทำไม ขอโทษ

Her มันเป็นธรรมดาที่ผู้ชายจะมาดูถูก

The Cut ending

Her เสียเวลาจริงๆ

You ทำไม ขอโทษ

Her หมายความว่าเสียเวลาพูดคุยกัน ไปห้องฉันจะดีกว่า ไปนอนกันไหม

anyway, sounds like it wasn't in a romantic context for you boon mee. Anyhow, don't be so rehearsed when speaking. let it flow...Cause it's always the chemistry that will get you the desired effect, any words can have the wrong effect if not backed with the right emotions.

Excellent! Thanks very much, gw108

The intended recipient is a woman of mature years who's a friend and the phrase cought my eye when going through Higbie.

She's attractive and never married so I thought it might be a "cute" phrase to run by her in a teasing manner.

[meadish_sweetball]

Continuing exploration of "tham-ma-da" ธรรมดา, can I say: ธรรมดาฉันเป็นคนอะไรก็ได้"tham-má-daa chăn bpen kon à-rai gôr dâai" "I'm usually an easygoing person" in common usage?

Cheers,

บุญมี

ธรรมดาฉันเป็นคนอะไรก็ได้ ,It sounds awkward to me , sounds like ' Normally,I can be any kinds of person (bad, mad, good, smart, stupid, etc.) '

"I'm usually an easygoing person"

โดยทั่วไป ผมเป็นคนง่าย ๆ ยังไงก็ได้ (ไม่เรื่องมาก)

Cheers Yoot.

Another example of Higbie steering me wrong again...

โดยทั่วไป seems too literal. litterly it makes sense, but you'd never hear anyone say it casually. Casually/commonly you'd more likely hear ปกติ in referring to abstract nouns such as time---usually, normally, etc.

as in

ปกติ ผมเป็นคนง่าย ๆ ยังไงก็ได้ (แต่บางที่บางเรื่องก็ต้องงมงาย)

You mean ่บางที', right?

[Johpa]

The expression  มันเป็นธรรมดาที่ผู้ชายจะชอบผู็็็หญิงดีอย่างคุฌ "mun pen tham-ma-da thee phoo-chai ja chawp pooying dee yang koon" which translates literally as "It's usual that a man would like a good woman like you" - to the Farang mind can mean one thing but in a middle-class Thai social setting might offend?

Wondering if anyone can shed some light?

Cheers,

บุญมี

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps it is because I spend my in-country time with the rural folks who usually only get formal with bureaucrats, but isn't the above sentence a bit awkward in that you are making a somewhat intimate statement while addressing the woman using the formal pronoun. I just can't see a Thai man involved in such a conversation while still feeling it necessary to use the formal pronoun. If a Thai wanted to make such a remark while still on formal social terms he would tend to eliminate the "like you" and leave it as a general statement about men and women. Or perhaps the Thai middle class is not as conservative as it was when I was still young and single. : )