State Of Emergency Decree Imposed In Bangkok

[spode]

Grandpops what a sad little man you are. I live in a pleasant town house outside of Bangkok, I am married to a Surin farmers daughter.We have invested in the farm to improve the in laws lifestyle we support the village school and have organised a village co-operative to strengthen the farmers buying and selling powers. Oh we don't have maid either .That's the advantage of being an elitist isn't it.

I presume you are indeed leading the same lifestyle as us thus enabling you to pass valid comments on my presumed lifestyl

We have three children who go to Thai government schools. We are not into shopping or eating out neither my wife or I are a drinkers.

We happen to live near the airport and were well aware of the P.A.D. occupation as well .Apart from my salary which 46,000 baht a month (Like yours no doubt as you wouldn't be here) The luxury car, actually a four door pick-up which we pay for monthly, far to low class for you no doubt

I am in receipt of an occupational pension from my previous occupation and have been so for the last 10 years, in 6 months time I qualify for my state retirement pension from the U.K which I paid for the same as my occupational pension.

I assure you that the depth of anti Thaksin and Red Shirt Brigade feeling in the village and the surrounding villages is indeed strong, that was as of last Sunday when we were in Surin.Perhaps you would like to come and work alongside me on the farm when we next go to Surin? Oh I must mention I am a farmers son so I do understand hard work and farming.

Now little inverted snob you go and try to to find another way to malign someone who you don't know and their presumed lifestyle which you are indeed very wrong about.

Sadly it seems as if you are indeed the born again jealous loser type that gravitates to this country for all the wrong reasons as you accuse me of . Twenty years here and still loving it.

I've seen Thaksins corrupt ways and the way the ordinary man suffered whilst Thaksin amassed an obscene fortune on their backs , happily the administration the country has now is indeed a big improvement on any I have seen in the last twenty years here.

Thank you for your very interesting and informative post. I appreciate it both for its relevance to the discussion here, and also for its insight into your life and choices, as I am occasionally thinking about life changes. Anyway, thank you and congratulations on what sounds like a satisfying and enoyable life/style.

-Spode

[Redsunset]

I love the decency portrayed by Abhisit... beats the likes of chef Samak and pencil neck Somchai... but really, leave the debating and pompous, circuitous language at Oxford.... this is the streets of Bangkok, remember?

[OzMick]

I've seen Thaksins corrupt ways and the way the ordinary man suffered whilst Thaksin amassed an obscene fortune on their backs , happily the administration the country has now is indeed a big improvement on any I have seen in the last twenty years here.

Improvement? What improvement? This government promised reconciliation, and failed miserably. Look at the state the country is in now, and tell me what has improved.

In demonising Thaksin as corrupt, you've described the behaviour of a typical Thai politician, amassing fortunes and so on. They all do it. Don't forget to include in your desciption of Thaksin the introduction of a healthcare system that gives everyone the right to see a doctor for 30 Baht, microcredit, OTOP, controlling the scourge of amphetamines, and all the good things he did. It's easy to see why so many people like him - he actually did things that improved their lives.

It's hard to understand why people here toe the propaganda lne and hate Thaksin so much. He was corrupt, as they all are, but at least he made material improvements to the lives of many people.

Anyway, it looks like the ineffectual Abhisit will be gone soon - the police and the army are not following his orders anymore. Good riddance to him.

Is this post the result of a long night on recreational substances?

You want to see huge improvements after only 16months, reconciliation with Thaksin paying for insurgency?

You approve:

B30 health scheme without funding, but ignore reduced cost scheme and increased funding

not-so-micro credit that was not managed (business plans, etc) and has increased isaan debt levels

OTOP, a miserable failure

drug control - just murder a suspect, or someone you don't like and call him a druggie afterwards.

all pols are corrupt (moral equivalence) - look at the scale of Thaksin corruption

army refusing to take orders - please post any data you have on orders issued

[madi]

It is humorous and quite pathetic at the same time reading posts from people who go off topic here.

I do not care how you financial live.

Likely no one is interested in your personal life either.

About the political wreck here in Thailand now

At some point one side must either win or there must be a compromise.

A win usually involves a use of extreme force and bloodshed.

A compromise would seem to be a better option.

Bad feelings on both sides are building. The clock is ticking.

I read someone here posting that most all of the people in his village are against the Reds. I doubt that but so what if it were so. Obviously the Reds are a majority and that is why they keep winning elections despite being torn apart by the current regime.

Hold a fair election tomorrow and the reds will win.

That is of course why it is that the ruling power does not want to hold an election.

If the fight breaks into a real blood fight, the farang will be open targets.

It will be a wind sprint to the airports and the borders.

Good luck to all, Thai and Farang.

[maccaroni man]

when t man was always spouting "you dont love thailand" "i love thailand" do any of the "farang" that support the red shirts think the reds look at you as thai or part of thailand? clockworkorange has 98 post and probably more than 50% are in support of a group that views him and the rest of us "farang" as the enemy.

[OzMick]

Uk to have a snap election in 1 month. Do you agree then that 15 days is ridiculous, but 1 month is unacceptable to he who must be obeyed.

[LevelHead]

when t man was always spouting "you dont love thailand" "i love thailand" do any of the "farang" that support the red shirts think the reds look at you as thai or part of thailand? clockworkorange has 98 post and probably more than 50% are in support of a group that views him and the rest of us "farang" as the enemy.

The Yellow shirts are the most anti-farang ones there are. These people are fanatical "system" supporters who view farang with contempt. They use and abuse them as they wish.

Thaksin was very pro-farang compared to the Yellows, which is why you saw things like the law changed so married farang can have some land, and the Thailand Elite scheme.

You will always be Farang, but better to have people in place who will treat you with normality, than the "Elite" who will treat you with contempt, and beleive it when the Yellows treat Farang with contempt. This is why the PAD had no qualms about shutting the airports down, they do not care about Farang at all.

New Politics Party if they ever got into power would probably invoke 1 week visa for tourists and a minimum of 5000 US$ per person on themselves to get a 1 week visa. They are the really bad ones IMO, so be very wary of them.

[kerm99]

I find it veru interesting that when the red blockade the street and upset the live of so many, the governement do nothing. But, when the red take over parliement and some MP have to climb the fence or be evacuate by helicopter, then it's State of Emergency.

It does not affect them personally, it's ok. It affect them personally, then let's do something.

Governement will be governement i guess....

Kerm

[clockworkorange]

Is this post the result of a long night on recreational substances?

You want to see huge improvements after only 16months, reconciliation with Thaksin paying for insurgency?

You approve:

B30 health scheme without funding, but ignore reduced cost scheme and increased funding

not-so-micro credit that was not managed (business plans, etc) and has increased isaan debt levels

OTOP, a miserable failure

drug control - just murder a suspect, or someone you don't like and call him a druggie afterwards.

all pols are corrupt (moral equivalence) - look at the scale of Thaksin corruption

army refusing to take orders - please post any data you have on orders issued

My opinion differs from yours, so I must be on recreational substances? I'll let that tactic in what is supposed to be a sensible debate speak for itself.

Your post contains nothing more than simple rebuffs that ignore the fact that a lot of people like Thaksin because he did improve their lives. More than the soon to be gone Abhisit, or any Dem pollie for that matter, ever did. A lot of people admire Thaksin, and want him back, simply because they voted for him and he improved their lives in return.

[LevelHead]

Uk to have a snap election in 1 month. Do you agree then that 15 days is ridiculous, but 1 month is unacceptable to he who must be obeyed.

15 days was just a starting point for negotiations.

Everyone on the Red side would accept 3 months or less IMO.

Nobody will accept more than 3 months IMO.

When you haggle in Asia you start low and they start high and the idea is to meet in the middle somewhere.............

[madi]

Check out this quote from the Bangkok Post this morning....

"Mr Abhisit said the government had no intention of using the law to crack down on people. 'The objectives of the government are to return normalcy and uphold sanctity of the law,' he said.

'...Let me assure you again, the government considers everyone a compatriot. But it is duty-bound to maintain the laws for the benefit of the country and public at large.

'The government will take swift and effective actions in restoring peace and normalcy for the public.'"

HUH???!!! A great way to justify the state of emergency by not using violence unless he has to use violence.... what a bunch of double talk!!! I would have preferred to hear the truth clearly and succinctly like this:

"We have exhausted every diplomatic means to end the violent, disruptive red shirt protesting. Now we are forced to enact the state of emergency, which will allow us to bring back order and safety to all residents of Bangkok using whatever means available within constraints of international laws..."

Unless, of course, General Anupong is pulling his strings!!!

Given the rumors yesterday its probably that faced with the potential for the Military to now be withdrawing support from the coalition government it was necessary for Banharn to be on TV followed by the imposition of the SOE, in order to "look strong".

If they have no backing they cannot enforce the SOE, so nothing will happen and it could all backfire on them and they become an even bigger laughing stock of a government, only worried about possibly filling their pockets as corruption is now said to be rife, worse than under Thaksin some people say in terms of double standards and corruption.

The SOE now takes Thailand nearer to being on par with Burma.

Coups, SOE, un-elected government, elite in control - the similarities get more each day.

Hopefully the Reds will win, Democracy and free elections can be held in a few months and then everyone can move on.

If the UK can dissolve the House in days and hold an election in one month then you do not need 9 months Abhisit !!!!!

Question

Does anyone here think Abhisit is in charge of the government?

NO

So why mention his name?

It is like when we had a Captain of the Thai military take over the government with a coup.

Nobody in his right mind believed that a Captain could take over the Thai government. But of course--a captain acting for another could. Funny how no generals opposed the captain.

Funny how all the TV stations helped in the coup.

It is my belief that many of the posters here, using non-Thai names, are in fact Thai.

The Thai propaganda machine of the ruling regime is quite powerful.

But go outside of Thailand and the Thai populations talk quite a different talk. They want free elections.

Also--I find it funny how it is that Taksin, so wanted for arrest, so they say, is able to travel around the world and never be arrested. One might come to conclude that the long standing Thai regime does not want Taksin in Thailand for a trial. In fact, that seems the last thing the regime wants.

Abhisit is in charge?

NO

He is no more in charge than was that Captain who did the coup years ago was in charge.

[anotherpeter]

It is humorous and quite pathetic at the same time reading posts from people who go off topic here.

I do not care how you financial live.

Likely no one is interested in your personal life either.

About the political wreck here in Thailand now

At some point one side must either win or there must be a compromise.

A win usually involves a use of extreme force and bloodshed.

A compromise would seem to be a better option.

Bad feelings on both sides are building. The clock is ticking.

I read someone here posting that most all of the people in his village are against the Reds. I doubt that but so what if it were so. Obviously the Reds are a majority and that is why they keep winning elections despite being torn apart by the current regime.

Hold a fair election tomorrow and the reds will win.

That is of course why it is that the ruling power does not want to hold an election.

If the fight breaks into a real blood fight, the farang will be open targets.

It will be a wind sprint to the airports and the borders.

Good luck to all, Thai and Farang.

Did the reds win the last election?

NO. The PPP got 36% of the vote compared to the Democrats 30%. The smaller parties got the rest.

Would that change in free and fair elections? Probably.

In free and fair elections, all parties would be able to campaign in all the the red areas without getting death threats. That would mean that more people would be able to hear something different to the red propaganda. That may not change everyone's minds, but it will change the minds of some. And I doubt that in areas that did not vote red last time, will change their vote to red in a new election.

[jdinasia]

Uk to have a snap election in 1 month. Do you agree then that 15 days is ridiculous, but 1 month is unacceptable to he who must be obeyed.

15 days was just a starting point for negotiations.

Everyone on the Red side would accept 3 months or less IMO.

Nobody will accept more than 3 months IMO.

When you haggle in Asia you start low and they start high and the idea is to meet in the middle somewhere.............

huh?

I guess you didn't watch the negotiations on TV where when 2-3 months was mentioned by the red side ... an SMS came in and poof it went off the table.

The reds have repeatedly said that anything more than 15 days is unacceptable. When any red boss has mentioned anything more it has been taken off the table immediately. Thaksin can't deal with anything that gives the Dems more time to show that they will actually do more for the rural poor than Thaksin ever did.

[culicine]

What's going on at the protest site now? There is nothing currently being reported in the media on the net.

[madi]

What's going on at the protest site now? There is nothing currently being reported in the media on the net.

uddthailand.com

[OzMick]

Is this post the result of a long night on recreational substances?

You want to see huge improvements after only 16months, reconciliation with Thaksin paying for insurgency?

You approve:

B30 health scheme without funding, but ignore reduced cost scheme and increased funding

not-so-micro credit that was not managed (business plans, etc) and has increased isaan debt levels

OTOP, a miserable failure

drug control - just murder a suspect, or someone you don't like and call him a druggie afterwards.

all pols are corrupt (moral equivalence) - look at the scale of Thaksin corruption

army refusing to take orders - please post any data you have on orders issued

My opinion differs from yours, so I must be on recreational substances? I'll let that tactic in what is supposed to be a sensible debate speak for itself.

Your post contains nothing more than simple rebuffs that ignore the fact that a lot of people like Thaksin because he did improve their lives. More than the soon to be gone Abhisit, or any Dem pollie for that matter, ever did. A lot of people admire Thaksin, and want him back, simply because they voted for him and he improved their lives in return.

I am sorry, but I was being generous assuming your mind was clouded and not simply dysfunctional. Would you like to debate any one of the points of idiocy that I drew attention to, or should we just read your vaulted opinions?

[anotherpeter]

Uk to have a snap election in 1 month. Do you agree then that 15 days is ridiculous, but 1 month is unacceptable to he who must be obeyed.

15 days was just a starting point for negotiations.

Everyone on the Red side would accept 3 months or less IMO.

Nobody will accept more than 3 months IMO.

When you haggle in Asia you start low and they start high and the idea is to meet in the middle somewhere.............

The middle of 15 days and 21 months is about 9 months.

And the reds didn't haggle. They said 15 days. They kept it at 15 days. It's still at 15 days.

This is how the reds want to haggle.

Abhisit: 21 months, when it is due. Reds: No, 15 days.

Abhisit: How about 9 months. Reds: No, 15 days.

Abhisit: OK, 6 months. Reds: No, 15 days.

Abhisit: 3 months. Reds: No, 15 days.

Abhisit: 30 days. Reds: No, 15 days.

Abhisit: OK, 15 days. Reds: Just a sec, we need to wait for the OK from the boss.

[LevelHead]

Uk to have a snap election in 1 month. Do you agree then that 15 days is ridiculous, but 1 month is unacceptable to he who must be obeyed.

15 days was just a starting point for negotiations.

Everyone on the Red side would accept 3 months or less IMO.

Nobody will accept more than 3 months IMO.

When you haggle in Asia you start low and they start high and the idea is to meet in the middle somewhere.............

huh?

I guess you didn't watch the negotiations on TV where when 2-3 months was mentioned by the red side ... an SMS came in and poof it went off the table.

The reds have repeatedly said that anything more than 15 days is unacceptable. When any red boss has mentioned anything more it has been taken off the table immediately. Thaksin can't deal with anything that gives the Dems more time to show that they will actually do more for the rural poor than Thaksin ever did.

You know what the SMS said ? You read it ?

Or you read "Yellow" newspapers opinions of what it said ? and who sent it ?

Truth ? Opinion ? False rumours ?

[ThailandLovr]

Uk to have a snap election in 1 month. Do you agree then that 15 days is ridiculous, but 1 month is unacceptable to he who must be obeyed.

15 days was just a starting point for negotiations.

Everyone on the Red side would accept 3 months or less IMO.

Nobody will accept more than 3 months IMO.

When you haggle in Asia you start low and they start high and the idea is to meet in the middle somewhere.............

huh?

I guess you didn't watch the negotiations on TV where when 2-3 months was mentioned by the red side ... an SMS came in and poof it went off the table.

The reds have repeatedly said that anything more than 15 days is unacceptable. When any red boss has mentioned anything more it has been taken off the table immediately. Thaksin can't deal with anything that gives the Dems more time to show that they will actually do more for the rural poor than Thaksin ever did.

How many times does jd's point need to be made before it can make it through Level Head's (and other's) thick skulls!

[shawndoc]

I find it veru interesting that when the red blockade the street and upset the live of so many, the governement do nothing. But, when the red take over parliement and some MP have to climb the fence or be evacuate by helicopter, then it's State of Emergency.

It does not affect them personally, it's ok. It affect them personally, then let's do something.

There's a difference between a peaceful rally blocking streets and direct violence inflicted upon the government of a country.

[culicine]

What's going on at the protest site now? There is nothing currently being reported in the media on the net.

uddthailand.com

LOL its blocked:)

[LevelHead]

It is humorous and quite pathetic at the same time reading posts from people who go off topic here.

I do not care how you financial live.

Likely no one is interested in your personal life either.

About the political wreck here in Thailand now

At some point one side must either win or there must be a compromise.

A win usually involves a use of extreme force and bloodshed.

A compromise would seem to be a better option.

Bad feelings on both sides are building. The clock is ticking.

I read someone here posting that most all of the people in his village are against the Reds. I doubt that but so what if it were so. Obviously the Reds are a majority and that is why they keep winning elections despite being torn apart by the current regime.

Hold a fair election tomorrow and the reds will win.

That is of course why it is that the ruling power does not want to hold an election.

If the fight breaks into a real blood fight, the farang will be open targets.

It will be a wind sprint to the airports and the borders.

Good luck to all, Thai and Farang.

Did the reds win the last election?

NO. The PPP got 36% of the vote compared to the Democrats 30%. The smaller parties got the rest.

Would that change in free and fair elections? Probably.

In free and fair elections, all parties would be able to campaign in all the the red areas without getting death threats. That would mean that more people would be able to hear something different to the red propaganda. That may not change everyone's minds, but it will change the minds of some. And I doubt that in areas that did not vote red last time, will change their vote to red in a new election.

The thing that you fail to mentions is :

The Last Election was very UNFAIR to the PPP.

It was held under the "Coup Appointed Government".

"Martial Law was basically still in effect in many places"

PPP politicians were assigned "watching crews" by the Military who watched where they went, who they spoke to, video'd what they said at speeches.

The Army were given a large budget to spend on "education rural Thais on elections and how to vote".

Its no surprise that under the last election the PPP percentage went down, but they still won.

Hold free and fair elections now and you will see the PTP percentage go way upwards to what PPP got in the last election.

Short memories some people, and even blurred memories.

The last election was held UNDER THE COUP GOVERNMENT..........

[ChiangMaiFun]

Uk to have a snap election in 1 month. Do you agree then that 15 days is ridiculous, but 1 month is unacceptable to he who must be obeyed.

15 days was just a starting point for negotiations.

Everyone on the Red side would accept 3 months or less IMO.

Nobody will accept more than 3 months IMO.

When you haggle in Asia you start low and they start high and the idea is to meet in the middle somewhere.............

The middle of 15 days and 21 months is about 9 months.

And the reds didn't haggle. They said 15 days. They kept it at 15 days. It's still at 15 days.

This is how the reds want to haggle.

Abhisit: 21 months, when it is due. Reds: No, 15 days.

Abhisit: How about 9 months. Reds: No, 15 days.

Abhisit: OK, 6 months. Reds: No, 15 days.

Abhisit: 3 months. Reds: No, 15 days.

Abhisit: 30 days. Reds: No, 15 days.

Abhisit: OK, 15 days. Reds: Just a sec, we need to wait for the OK from the boss.

haha took you a long time to make that up right? but seriously - I agree that it would be pathetic and stupid for the reds not to compromise and WISE of Abhisit to offer (which he hasn't) - I think 90% of people here would support a compromise - if they turn it down 90% of their support disappears because it's obviously the right move

[OzMick]

Uk to have a snap election in 1 month. Do you agree then that 15 days is ridiculous, but 1 month is unacceptable to he who must be obeyed.

15 days was just a starting point for negotiations.

Everyone on the Red side would accept 3 months or less IMO.

Nobody will accept more than 3 months IMO.

When you haggle in Asia you start low and they start high and the idea is to meet in the middle somewhere.............

huh?

I guess you didn't watch the negotiations on TV where when 2-3 months was mentioned by the red side ... an SMS came in and poof it went off the table.

The reds have repeatedly said that anything more than 15 days is unacceptable. When any red boss has mentioned anything more it has been taken off the table immediately. Thaksin can't deal with anything that gives the Dems more time to show that they will actually do more for the rural poor than Thaksin ever did.

You know what the SMS said ? You read it ?

Or you read "Yellow" newspapers opinions of what it said ? and who sent it ?

Truth ? Opinion ? False rumours ?

Shall we call it an informed guess? Do you have a more likely content? "Don't forget the milk" perhaps?

[cougar52]

The reds have played right into Abhisit's hands , to the point that they declare civil war , Abhisit has carried out his duty to the tee and full marks to him , this will just strengthen his chances of leading government for years to come.

10/10 Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva

actually abhisit is most like finished....

What a lot of BS Britt he won't be finished who do suggest would replace him ?

Actually I think a couple of days ago "Dad" Chi was proposing "Son" Newin for becoming the new P.M., it was on the BP I Think

[shawndoc]

And yet none of the current red shirts was screaming that the elections were unfair or tainted in some way when they were in power. It only started once the coalition fell apart and a new one was formed.

[OzMick]

The reds have played right into Abhisit's hands , to the point that they declare civil war , Abhisit has carried out his duty to the tee and full marks to him , this will just strengthen his chances of leading government for years to come.

10/10 Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva

actually abhisit is most like finished....

What a lot of BS Britt he won't be finished who do suggest would replace him ?

Actually I think a couple of days ago "Dad" Chi was proposing "Son" Newin for becoming the new P.M., it was on the BP I Think

Nah, got to be Chalerm! After he promotes his deserter son to general, he plans to transfer him as Minister for Justice

[anotherpeter]

The middle of 15 days and 21 months is about 9 months.

And the reds didn't haggle. They said 15 days. They kept it at 15 days. It's still at 15 days.

This is how the reds want to haggle.

Abhisit: 21 months, when it is due. Reds: No, 15 days.

Abhisit: How about 9 months. Reds: No, 15 days.

Abhisit: OK, 6 months. Reds: No, 15 days.

Abhisit: 3 months. Reds: No, 15 days.

Abhisit: 30 days. Reds: No, 15 days.

Abhisit: OK, 15 days. Reds: Just a sec, we need to wait for the OK from the boss.

haha took you a long time to make that up right? but seriously - I agree that it would be pathetic and stupid for the reds not to compromise and WISE of Abhisit to offer (which he hasn't) - I think 90% of people here would support a compromise - if they turn it down 90% of their support disappears because it's obviously the right move

Isn't 9 months a compromise?

That has been offered to the reds and they have stuck to 15 days - no compromise. The reds did offer 30 days, but that was quickly taken off the table for some reason.

[quiksilva]

Uk to have a snap election in 1 month. Do you agree then that 15 days is ridiculous, but 1 month is unacceptable to he who must be obeyed.

15 days was just a starting point for negotiations.

Everyone on the Red side would accept 3 months or less IMO.

Nobody will accept more than 3 months IMO.

When you haggle in Asia you start low and they start high and the idea is to meet in the middle somewhere.............

Nonsense. Your selective reading and quoting is discrediting you with every post:

The PM has already suggested that 9 months is flexible and has repeatedly invited the Red Shirt leaders back for more talks (once in the live televised talks, twice whilst in Brunei, and once when he returned).

BUT each time the Reds refused, with Jatuporn stating:

"Negotiations have completely failed and have already ended. No more talks, everything is finished,"

They retracted their previous offer of 30-60 days and since that was offered in the talks they have insisted on the 15 day timeframe, and will not discuss anything else. Hardly what one could describe as a reasonable position!

Please also refrain from your repeated useless comparisons with the UK. This is surely not the UK, not only are the countries different but the situations are very different too. Brown has to call elections this year, Abhisit does not, but nevertheless is willing to.

Based on the date of the talks, the 29th March, the Red 15 day timeframe will expire upon the commence of the Songkran festival before I suspect most of their supporters will pack up and go home.

The Reds are well aware of this and as such this is why now we see the situation intensifying, and will likely get worse over the coming days. They need it too, in order to keep numbers high as many are likely getting bored and frustrated.

This is why I suspect the SOE has been declared so that they can control potential flare ups which look more and more likely and prevent movement of citizens trying to join the rally.

Edited April 8, 2010 by quiksilva

[LevelHead]

And yet none of the current red shirts was screaming that the elections were unfair or tainted in some way when they were in power. It only started once the coalition fell apart and a new one was formed.

They did complain, but the Yellow newspapers were not interested. And you are hardly going to complain in the streets if you won the election but were unfairly treated as nobody would be interested because they will simply say you won, get on with it.

All the Yellow papers were talking about was Thaksin. The same as they do today.